LOCKS- Greatest ever XV as voted by 606v2

First topic message reminder :

Argh! I've deleted this topic twice now!

Same rules as before, Richard Hill was our Blindside giving a team of

15- Cullen/JPR
14- Lomu
13- O'Driscoll/Sella
12- Horan/ O'Driscoll
11- Campese
10- Carter
9- Edwards
8- Brooke
7- Jones
6- Hill

Subs = JPR/Cullen/Shane, Sella/Horan/John, vd Westhuizen, McCaw/Dallalgio

So now onto locks. Pick 2 please, unless you really can't decide. I haven't split the list into enforcers/lineout experts or 1st/2nd jumpers, but feel free to take the balance into account when you vote. Please post Other and state your choice if your choice is not available.

fa0019 wrote:roddersm

If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.

Fair point indeed.

I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.

For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.

Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.

Not that I am punting Victor Matfield here, but has there ever been a lock that dominated line out play for as long as he did?

biltongbek wrote:Not that I am punting Victor Matfield here, but has there ever been a lock that dominated line out play for as long as he did?

He was something special thats for sure. Thats why i picked him and Eales

roddersm wrote:

fa0019 wrote:roddersm

If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.

Fair point indeed.

I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.

For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.

Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.

Maybe it was his unseen graft / work that allowed the other SR to play better....

I am proud of you Billy.

And with a full head of hair too Biltong.

Thats why I went for him and POC. The guy was amazing.

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Maybe it was his unseen graft / work that allowed the other SR to play better....

Quite possibly. Like I say its a long time since I've seen Johno play obviously, whereas O'Connells career is a bit fresher in my mind. Its not a definitive view, just an observation. Just throwing it out there.

roddersm wrote:And with a full head of hair too Biltong.

Thats why I went for him and POC. The guy was amazing.

See this is how you get to know who your friends are.

And this is a debating site chief....feel free to throw all ideas out here...

Any idea?

....











Nah, got nothing.

roddersm wrote:

fa0019 wrote:roddersm

If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.

Fair point indeed.

I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.

For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.

Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.

I agree with Rodders - Martin Johnson was a great inspirational leader but not the most technical or athletic of locks. I remember a very young Paul O'Connell & DOC combination destroying a Johnson/Kay partnership in Welford Road just before England went on to win the world cup.

While I don't think Paul O'Connell is the best ever lock in the world, I do think he was a better lock than Martin Johnson. If you're putting Johnson in there, you are putting him in for his leadership qualities.

It should also be remember that Victor Matfield rated Paul O'Connell as his toughest opponent.

Sin é wrote:
I agree with Rodders

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

fa0019 wrote:roddersm

If Johnson was 10 years younger and hadn't started his game in the amateur era he would have been more athletic too... its a different game these days.

Fair point indeed.

I still maintain that whilst Johnson was an astute and inspirational captain, he wasn't the best 2nd row I've seen from a playing perspective and often outshone by his 2nd row partners, which isn't true of O'Connell.

For example I think Shaw was arguably better than Johnson and Kay and Davison outperformed him for England and the Lions respectively at times.

Its just an opinion I've had for a while, perhaps my memory deceives me a bit. Johnson is a legend no question.

I agree with Rodders - Martin Johnson was a great inspirational leader but not the most technical or athletic of locks. I remember a very young Paul O'Connell & DOC combination destroying a Johnson/Kay partnership in Welford Road just before England went on to win the world cup.

While I don't think Paul O'Connell is the best ever lock in the world, I do think he was a better lock than Martin Johnson. If you're putting Johnson in there, you are putting him in for his leadership qualities.

It should also be remember that Victor Matfield rated Paul O'Connell as his toughest opponent.

He did sort of rate him as his toughest opponent but he didn't for example say he was better than his team mate (Bakkies)
He also didn't suggest that POC was as good as himself.