Areas for Welsh improvements

what a great weekend, a messy saturday night following a superb welsh grand slam. now the dust has settled and most of us have got over our hangovers we can contemplate a very exiting future for the wales national squad. Nonetheless, i feel for this magical all conquering future to happen, several issues will have to be ironed out leading on to 2015 and beyond.

1. Front-Row
If the lions front row of Jones, Rees and Jenkins stay on till 2015 their respecitve ages will be 35,35 and you guessed it 35! Paul James and Huw Bennett will also be 33/32 This is an age issue that needs addressing sooner rather than later before it becomes a serious problem. In fairness to Gatland he has clearly identified this issue by blooding Ken Owens and introducing the young Mitchell, rhodri Jones, Bevington and Gill to the squad. Scott Andrews and Nathan Buck are also wating in the wings. The hooker problem is a small one do to Owens emergence unfortunetly the pool of prop talent is dissapointingly small and none with the possible exeption of Gill have put their hand as being the natural sucessor of Jones and jenk's.

2. Half Backs
Mike Phillips is possibly the most irritating player on planet earth with his futile runs and poor speed of pass. we all know that he is capable of being the most sensational player on planet eath but often these games are far between. (the last being france vs wales in the world cup despite a good performance against ireland in feb). What i would like to see is a Scrum-half who puts his name out on the club scene consistently enoguh to challenge him. undoubtedly either one of lloyd williams, Webb and Knoyle will fill Mike shoes however i would like a worthy contendor for Mike as soon as possible to emerge (cough peel cough) With Priestland i also wish Hook refound his mojo and become a worthy contendor with Priestland, just to ensure we dont miss him incase of injury. Biggar and Tovey should also see themselves aiming high.

3.Centre
A little issue, i wish Ashley Beck would be given an opportunity as i feel his creative and distribution skills might add an extra dimension to Wales back play.

4. Back three
Behing Cuthbert and North, the offical welsh squad consisted of two other winger with and average age of 19. Liam Williams and Harry Robinson have bright futures yet are not ready yet for International rugby. Biarritz bound Aled Brew or the injured morgan stoddard could be considered as a hole-filler. Full back is a more concering issue, for behind Halfpenny, theres an aging Lee Byrne who would be 35 in 2015. Liam Williams or Martyn Thomas could be considered future competition with Halfpenny. Hook can also play there if so be.

I would have been concerned even 12 months ago but I feel Warran has now turned to the youngsters and will develop Welsh players in a controlled and succesful way. We still have a long way to gp befoe we can really say we have true strength in depth but we are getting there faster than I thought.

Biggar should be given another go I feel. Webb and Lloyd Williams look really good, Knoyle not too sure about. What is the score with Prydie these days? Appeared to play well in NZ in 2010.

Warran seems to have turned the corner and will keep on getting it right I think.

Moved to international section.

1. Quality back up TH & quality hookers

2. Halfbacks arent consistent enough

3. No plan B in midfield

We need to improves all over the park - no where near good enough yet. Way too predictable in attack and not accurate enough kicking out of hand. Better teams would have capitalised on our poor kicking and put their chances away.

Gatland needs to let them enjoy the celebration and then get them grounded again quickly.

offload wrote:We need to improves all over the park - no where near good enough yet. Way too predictable in attack and not accurate enough kicking out of hand. Better teams would have capitalised on our poor kicking and put their chances away.

Gatland needs to let them enjoy the celebration and then get them grounded again quickly.

So that's just the three teams then!

wales need a fly half who can kick goals priestland ant good enough he cant tackle either other then that very good team your back row reminds me of englands 2003 hill,back,dallagio.

Why does the fly half need to kick goals when the full back does it perfectly well?

what the fly half in the team for he cant tackle and his kicking out of hand is poor might aswell play halfpenny there at least he can tackle

Front Row

Adam jones was interviewed a while back on tight head prospects he reckons to Joe Rees at the Ospreys is the future in the long term. He looks great too, more athletic looking than adam and will need to improve his weight. But great player. Think tight head version of Sheridan but with Adam as a mentor sure to be a success.
Hooker no problems there, Owens, Hibbard, Myhill, Burns all younger than Bennet or Rees.
Loosehead, Rhodri Jones, Gill etc mentioned above.

We need to tray the tighthead birth as we did the open side flanker birth when Martyn's Williams was all we had, give it time and groom the right men for the job over time.

Locks

Look good they are all reasonably you f and there are more coming through. Would be great to see Wales have the dominant line out we once had before most of you were born.

Back row are all under 25 and will be pushed hard for their places by those coming through. Current mob are excelling.

We have two very god halfbacks, no matter how they are slated, often wrongly, at the moment they are big players for Wales and we will miss them if they aren't available.
Good depth in youth below. Tovey and Williams are the two to concentrate on they look the part. I am not concerned with Biggar or Hook at the moment as options, though I wouldn't discard tem, I just want them to fight for their chance, when or if they deserve it. Steffano Jones may prove worth a go soon too...

Scrum halfs we have Webb, knoyle, Davies and Williams all look good to push for the spot when available.

Centres all good with options like Beck, warren, is it jack the young dragon. Plus older lads like Henson could be good options.

Back three also looking great and supported by Robinson, Liam Williams, young lads like Prydie and Scott Morgan as well as the Owen william's in the sevens team.

Future looks good

Get hook playing 10 reguallry for a club and back into match sharpness or put Henson in a time machine or sort out Preistlands medication.

Get the discipline sorted. No more rash cards from getting over passionate. Its a difficult balancing act though, all sides thrive on intensity.

Get someone who not only demands Phillps' spot but also uses it well when he gets it. Its not like Gatland hasnt tried other options over the years. Phillips is a good player, but not good enough to really take Wales to the next level.

Be less predicitable. Its a tsrength for Wale sthat heyve played a settled system for years now that the players can easily be intergarted into as they come in. But the flip side of that is that the oppsotion knows where the ball will be going pretty much every time. They can work out defensive plans and make Wales' backs look less dangerous then they are.

Front row the reserve props did well when Jenkins and Jones were out. Like England though they seem to struggle to find a hooker whos more than " the best we have available". If Owens is the future, is he that good? Guess we'll find out.

The main thing we need to improve for me is our composure under pressure. It has been very good on occasion as against Ireland but I have sensed that when the chips are down in Australia we may go back into our shells as we did against France this weekend - I know some might call this closing the game down but it wasn't convincing. We need to believe in ourselves and start running at teams more - We kicked good turnover ball away time and time again against England and France and it was panicky (understandable but panicky) - Choosing the right time to kick and the right time to run is largely down to game awareness and composure - we need to improve this in the heat of battle when the stakes are high - It should come in time but it needs formally adressing. Give me a call Warren

Ruby,

Do you think thats maybe just a case of getting used to winning? The phsycology of so many tight games lost mustve staretd to feed into that loop and create more pressure each time teh game was tight.
Now this group of players have actually come through those tests with wins and something real to show for it is the barrier broken?
You often hear people talk about a winning habit, maybe Wales will have that now. If they can get Aus close, maybe they will be able to close it out

It needs to be formally addressed, this is our 3rd Slam in 7-8 seasons so there are many winners in here

RubyGuby wrote:It needs to be formally addressed, this is our 3rd Slam in 7-8 seasons so there are many winners in here

Only 2 from the 2005 party team. Most of the first choice team didnt play in 2008 either, many of those players are now the second choices or out altogether.

I consider this a different team in terms of its mentaility.

Weaknesses are (as ever) are back up props, back up No 8 (I know we've got Ryan, but he's a great 6/lock and is prob better there).

We'll be developing good cover at 10, 7, and 9 in the summer hopefully and with Tovey, Biggar if he gets a 2nd shot and then the likes of Steffan Jones, Shingler and Owen and Jordan Williams we've got options at 10, and a few interesting 7's including Tupric who must be our top 2nd choice 7, and Navidi interesting, then there's Shingler (whose more of a 6) and L Evans can play there.

The back 3 are pretty much sorted I think, Stodds and Liam Williams can play across the back 3, then there's Robinson, Dirksen (if he chooses Wales), M Thomas, J Williams and even Priestland or Tovey and then of course Brew as well.

The main thing I feel is keeping form and fitness which is a worry as this team although young have been at it hammer and tongs since June 2011 with no rest or recuperation and Warbs has said his body has been creaking and he's had niggles everywhere since the WC (words along those lines). I can't imagine what players like Lydiate, North and Roberts must feel like.
Form will be interesting as we really fell away after the 2005 and 08 GS' after promising to decieve.

Ruby I'd call our kicking choosing the right option and making sure we were playing in the right areas, or merely turning a quick and aggresive French defence to give them more to think about.

I think this approach, while not pretty, won us the game

Smirnoff - I'm not going to disagree with that but it is limited and for the next step we need something more agressive and assertive IMO - It was risky and we turned over ball quite easily - Do that in the SH and we're in trouble. In the last 5 mins v France there was no FB and whilst I appreciate that we decided to keep the ball, Aus, NZ and SA would have chipped over which was the obvious move and put the game to bed - instead we played a higher risk option of trying to keep the ball. Its a fine line but for me one that needs to be considered. I would ad that our strongest part of the game is our defence so chipping, even if the oppo gets the ball puts us in a very strong position.

Kicking is the right option when you do it well. If your FH is a bit shakey then thats a problem, but it doesnt mean chucking sucide passes automaticaly becomes the better option.

I think It is perhaps more the technical execution that was lacking a little with Priestland against France, Roberts and I think it was Halfpenny showed how effective the chip kicks behind the line of defence was better for Wales.

Priestland had a few kicks that just gave possession away to france (not that they did antything with it.) The other issue for me was the turn over ball, Priestland had a few opportunities where Wales won quick turn over ball at the breakdown and his first instinct was to kick into french territory.

I am pretty sure Halfpenny will be the main goal kicker for wales as Priestland has been struggling to be consistent.

The same of course could be said for Beaxius in both the England and Wales games. The kicking may have worked if he hadnt been so abysmal and played well below his ability.

To be fair to Rhys, he didn't always kick away turnover ball, if he did, then what type of ball did we use for Cuthbert's try?

Rhys is someone who assesses his options very quickly, he doesn't always make the right choice, but he's helped set up the tries whe it's really mattered, so he'd doing a pretty darn good job in my book, and tis always good when you can see that a player can keep getting better too.

rugbydreamer wrote:To be fair to Rhys, he didn't always kick away turnover ball, if he did, then what type of ball did we use for Cuthbert's try?

Rhys is someone who assesses his options very quickly, he doesn't always make the right choice, but he's helped set up the tries whe it's really mattered, so he'd doing a pretty darn good job in my book, and tis always good when you can see that a player can keep getting better too.

I am pretty sure Cuthberts try came form the chip Roberts kicked over and then won the contest to the ball? I may be mistaken, but I a sure I am not.

Nope, Lydiate tackled Dusautoir, Alyn Wyn won the turnover, ball to Rhys, one pass out to Cuthbert and he was off.

I wouldnt change it a lot. Without playing perfect rugby Wales are winning matches when two years ago they would have lost them.

At 9 Richards takes a lot of flack but hes the only one to remain in the position consistently. Not the best clearance of the ball but underestimated as a forth loose forward and presence around the scrum with his height.

Strategy is the biggest area for improvement. Theres a helter skelter approach and an almost desperation to get the ball wide or through on every occasion. This makes defending easier so smarter and better timing could improve things. Keeping the opposition guessing.

Overall dont change what aint broke.

Apart from the lineout, which hasn't been secure in any of this year's games, to me the thing we really need to work on is how to attack more effectively against teams that are up on us quickly. Each of England, Italy and France defended very well against us and I thought we struggled to work out what to do about it.

Taylorman wrote:I wouldnt change it a lot. Without playing perfect rugby Wales are winning matches when two years ago they would have lost them.

At 9 Richards takes a lot of flack but hes the only one to remain in the position consistently. Not the best clearance of the ball but underestimated as a forth loose forward and presence around the scrum with his height.

Strategy is the biggest area for improvement. Theres a helter skelter approach and an almost desperation to get the ball wide or through on every occasion. This makes defending easier so smarter and better timing could improve things. Keeping the opposition guessing.

Overall dont change what aint broke.

Do you mean Phillips?

For me Phillips is annoying (as he must be for the opposition) as he can be slow and really hinder the backline, but at the same time he brings a lot to the team, keeps defences honest, poses a threat and brings physicality at the breakdown and occassionally is on fire and brings quick ball and pace to the team.

Not exactly news but we need a couple of TH's. If this is nor addressed ASAP we will find ourselves on the wromg end of an Irelandesq battering. Without Adam in the 3/4 playoff Australia bossed us in the scrum. Everything else can wait this bull needs to be taken by the horns.

It's time to move on from Mike. He has been a great servant, but we cannot keep picking him because he has been there and done it. Lloyd will not get better unless he gets much more game time. We need to adopt the Toby, Ryan model where the old escorts the new into the arena while still able to make significant contributions.

We need to see who of the young 10's has what it takes. Forget Hook he hasn't got it at 10. It will be interesting to see how Tovey goes this year at the Blues and if he can add consistancy to his obvious talent. Gatland needs to carry on his youth policy. It can work if the player has it in them. If not drop them and move on. It does not mean the end for those players but they will need to come again. Get Jiffy to have a word in Matthew Morgan's ear and tell what he needs to do to add the physical side to his game because at the moment my 7 year daughter could run over the top of him. He is however talented.

As someone else has mentioned we still need to look for a Henson like physical playmaker. Not having a ball playing 12 is putting pressure on Priestland as there is no out for him if the lines need clearing. Not a big problem as both incumbants are doing well, but the OP wanted to know where we need to improve

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Taylorman wrote:I wouldnt change it a lot. Without playing perfect rugby Wales are winning matches when two years ago they would have lost them.

At 9 Richards takes a lot of flack but hes the only one to remain in the position consistently. Not the best clearance of the ball but underestimated as a forth loose forward and presence around the scrum with his height.

Strategy is the biggest area for improvement. Theres a helter skelter approach and an almost desperation to get the ball wide or through on every occasion. This makes defending easier so smarter and better timing could improve things. Keeping the opposition guessing.

Overall dont change what aint broke.

Do you mean Phillips?

For me Phillips is annoying (as he must be for the opposition) as he can be slow and really hinder the backline, but at the same time he brings a lot to the team, keeps defences honest, poses a threat and brings physicality at the breakdown and occassionally is on fire and brings quick ball and pace to the team.

yeah phillips... It is 2a.m.ish here...
Agreed. Hes shown more than once he can be a game breaker and Wales now have a healthy number of these. Hes brash as well. Doesnt care what people think from what i can see.

I actually disagree with missing a playmaker in midfield, JD2 is a second pivot at 13. We've seen less of Roberts this 6ns because he hasnt just been used as a battering ram, North and Cuthbert coming inside have allowed him to push out wider. We also have Scott Williams/Beck coming through the centres who are both different types of players, and Stoddart to come back for wing/FB cover.

We need a back-up flyhalf, Priestland has been shaky, but I thought his kicking against France was generally good, some loose kicks admittedly but France didnt look like doing much with it. Against Australia, I dont see us kicking long and in-field unless theres space behind the back 3, careless kicks WILL cost us out there. Tovey at the blues should be interesting.

Phillips ties in the fringe defenders for that split second extra to allow Priestland to play flat. I'd like to see Webb kick on though his all-round game has been nice to watch at the ospreys. So far, no-one has been able to take Phillips jersey from him though.....

Lineout needs improving, although, missing our 2 first-choice locks a year or 2 ago would've seen us taken apart in the pack, we now have 4 players capable of starting tests and Ryan Jones who can play lock if needed. The lineout was good against the French, varied and provided quick ball into midfield off first phase, i'd like to see that sort of ball used smarter.

Gill looks ready to replace Jenkins, Bevington not that far behind Gill either. Mithcell to start sharing gametime with Adam Jones in the next few years, Gardiner looked good last season before his injury and Rees (i think) at the ospreys looks a prospect.

Backrow is looking very very strong. The starters have excelled, would like to see more of Faletau finding space to run. Ryan can cover 6 and 8 equally well. Shingler was impressive on his debut at openside and Tiperic slotted in very, very well. Lewis Evans at the dragons has potential aswell.

I'm happy with Wales current state to be fair. Plan B is where we're falling down, but I put that down to coaches analysing Wales from the world cup. We've started to see the gameplan tweaked in spurts and fits, hopefully that'll continue and the attack will evolve as we go.

Not much to change, little mistakes need to be eradicated, Wales have a habit of making errors and relieving the pressure on the opposition when they should be piling it on.

Comfort wrote:I actually disagree with missing a playmaker in midfield, JD2 is a second pivot at 13. We've seen less of Roberts this 6ns because he hasnt just been used as a battering ram, North and Cuthbert coming inside have allowed him to push out wider. We also have Scott Williams/Beck coming through the centres who are both different types of players, and Stoddart to come back for wing/FB cover.

We need a back-up flyhalf, Priestland has been shaky, but I thought his kicking against France was generally good, some loose kicks admittedly but France didnt look like doing much with it. Against Australia, I dont see us kicking long and in-field unless theres space behind the back 3, careless kicks WILL cost us out there. Tovey at the blues should be interesting.

Phillips ties in the fringe defenders for that split second extra to allow Priestland to play flat. I'd like to see Webb kick on though his all-round game has been nice to watch at the ospreys. So far, no-one has been able to take Phillips jersey from him though.....

Lineout needs improving, although, missing our 2 first-choice locks a year or 2 ago would've seen us taken apart in the pack, we now have 4 players capable of starting tests and Ryan Jones who can play lock if needed. The lineout was good against the French, varied and provided quick ball into midfield off first phase, i'd like to see that sort of ball used smarter.

Gill looks ready to replace Jenkins, Bevington not that far behind Gill either. Mithcell to start sharing gametime with Adam Jones in the next few years, Gardiner looked good last season before his injury and Rees (i think) at the ospreys looks a prospect.

Backrow is looking very very strong. The starters have excelled, would like to see more of Faletau finding space to run. Ryan can cover 6 and 8 equally well. Shingler was impressive on his debut at openside and Tiperic slotted in very, very well. Lewis Evans at the dragons has potential aswell.

I'm happy with Wales current state to be fair. Plan B is where we're falling down, but I put that down to coaches analysing Wales from the world cup. We've started to see the gameplan tweaked in spurts and fits, hopefully that'll continue and the attack will evolve as we go.

Not much to change, little mistakes need to be eradicated, Wales have a habit of making errors and relieving the pressure on the opposition when they should be piling it on.

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