Declan Kidney: Great Man Manager or Luckiest Man Alive

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On Saturday 24th May 2008 Declan Kidney masterminded Munsters triumph over Toulouse in the Heineken Cup final in Cardiff. Shortly after he was appointed to the role of head coach of the Ireland national team, and just months later had led them to the 6 Nations title and their first grand slam since 1948. The IRB coach of the year award followed later in 2009, a year in which another Irish province, Leinster, won the Heineken Cup.

During Kidneys reign as Ireland supremo, Leinster have in fact won the Heineken Cup twice, and also made the Celtic League play off final twice. Munster have won the Celtic twice in the same period, and Ulster have established themselves as a top half of the table side, making last years play off semi final, along with the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup. So far this season, those three provinces have all qualified for the knockout stages of Europes premier club competition again, and all sit within the top half of the Rabo Direct table, with Leinster top and Munster currently set for the play offs.

It is clear looking the results of the provinces, and the players coming through the academy systems in Ireland, that the set up there is good, and they are producing players capable of performing to a very high level. Whilst overseas stars may have grabbed the headlines in Ulster's recent demolition of Leicester Tigers, homegrown talent such as Rory Best, Chris Henry, Paul Marshall, Paddy wallace and Andrew Trimble all contributed hugely, much as the likes of Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip, Johnny Sexton, Paul O'Connell, Ronan O'Gara and Keith Earls have done for Leinster and Munster respectively.

Ulster performance in that game was driven by an intensity usually associated with teams from the Southern Hemisphere, but that has also ben shown regularly by Leinster, and most recently by Munster in their demolition of Northampton Saints at Stadium MK. It is clear from these performances that the players have it in them to go up against anyone, and win, yet it is fair to say that it just has not happened regularly enough when they pull on the green shirt of Ireland.

As stated at the beginning of this piece, Kidneys reign began with glory, and the period since has seen sustained excellence and continued upward progression from 3 of the 4 Irish provinces. Yet at international level, if you look at tournament results, Ireland have declined year on year. From grand slam winners in 2009, to runners in up 2010 and then to third place in the 2011 6 Nations tournament. In each of the previous two competitions, there has been a standout, high intensity performance, such as the victory over England which denied them the grand slam last year, but there has been an inability to deliver performances consistently at that level.

The recent World Cup was no different. Ireland began with a less than convincing victory over the USA, before finding their one big performance to beat Australia, and also deny them even a losing bonus point. Wins against Russia and Italy followed, before being dumped out in the quarter final by the Welsh. Now at Celtic League and Heineken Cup level, Welsh regions victories over Irish provinces, particularly in key games, are rare, the Ospreys Final win over Leinster in 2010 being the exception So the question has to be asked why the levels of performance are not consistently replicated at international level.

The players are the same, with Connacht providing very few to the national squad, and there are plenty of occasions where provincial combinations have been used in the national shirt, so why this relative failure to perform on the biggest stage? The only conclusion that I can draw from what I have seen is that the answer has be Declan Kidney. He is clearly an intelligent man and a good coach, you do not win the trophies that he did with Munster if you are not, however something clearly is not right, as results reflect.

There are those who will argue that he does not select on form and favours the old guard (particularly from Munster) over younger more dynamic alternatives, yet his fans will point to the likes of Cian Healy and Sean O'Brien as examples of younger men that he has brought in to the side. There are also those who will argue that tactically he is stuck in the past, and sees the game through the same eyes that he did whilst at Munster between 2005 and 2008, and this hampers the team as the game has moved on even in that short time. Those who feel he is the right man for the job will counter this by highlighting those dynamic performances already mentioned against England and Australia, as evidence that he is trying to get the team to play in a modern, more dynamic way.

So what is the truth? Is Declan Kidney the right man to take Ireland on to the next level, and have them dominating Northern Hemisphere rugby in the same way that their provincial sides are dominating the club game? Or is he merely a false prophet, hiding behind success at Munster and initially with Ireland which was built more on the ability of the players at his disposal, rather than any great tactical nous or man management from him?

The next 8 weeks will hopefully give us some of the answers. Ireland will be without BOD, and Kidney will have to show that he is able to select the right man to fill his boots. Other than O'Driscoll, ireland have the majority of their best players available, and they are all in form, so there can be no excuses for not getting the best from them. In contrast England are an unknown quantity, France have a new coach and squad, and Wales will be missing key players through injury. If Ireland continue their downward trend since winning the 2009 6 Nations, and finish 4th or below in this competition, then surely Kidney's time must be up, as the answer to the question of what the truth is about him will be clear. On the other hand, Ireland may win the thing again, but I suspect the question will remain, great man manager, or just plain lucky at being Ireland coach at a time where the players at his disposal are better than their counterparts elsewhere in Europe.

DOD, so when will you think it's more coach (and his retinue! as I continue to say and I keep getting the ringing 'anti-Kidney' accusation in my ear) when will you decide that it is more a coaching issue, much more a coaching issue than a continuous stream of below International level players?

You tell me it's always something that a coach might get the blame for that me and others pick up on. I've talked about Bowe - think he's having a dreadful period - individually, not Kidney related. I've mentioned D'arcy. I've mentioned that Murray is now catching the Irish bug of slow delivery (and no I'm not talking about when he's digging for the slow ball, I'm talking about when it's out there looking at him.) I've spoken about Heaslip's personality and social habits that I think is sometimes a hinderance to his game.

So I've talked players and will continue to talk players when I feel they are a weak link in an overall plan.

But you? When was the last time you really owned up to the idea that we might be having real coaching difficulties? Evidence is there on so many levels. You know rugby - don't doubt it - so you see the same things some of us see. You must see them. But will you speak out? Nope, very little there as to do so is somehow anti-Kidney.

But maybe you're right, maybe if they played in an all EU team things would improve yeah, I did catch that one

Kidney has introduced a number of tactics that is now becoming widespread, the hold up in the tackle they executed so ruthlessly last season or so is now adopted by the English, noticed they were attempting this at every opportunity, except they arent as drilled as the Irish team was and weren't recognising that an isolated runner is better off decked and attacked for the turnover.

On the same note I think this 3rd loss on the bounce to us has to be looked at, in the first you were the better side and the hold up tackle caused us probs, but were unlucky as you switched off and played the game to the law, not to the refs or oppositions attempts at bending it, the world cup was the dissapointing one where Gatland adressed the hold tackle problem and the hit the deck recycle quickly tactic was dominant. The fact that Kidney hasn't adapted since the WC game is a pity, and in all fairness you couldve won the game, but were the 2nd best team on the day if we're being honest!

We were second best in every department save lineout. No probelm saying Wales were the better side that deserved their slice of good luck to get the final chance to overcome the score that so obviously didn't belong to us. But our problems are much more endemic at International level than the game on Sunday just being an unfortunate loss to a better side on the day.
We all know how Irish players can play (Leinster/Munster. Ulster getting there - the Irish players in those sides for those who throw the foreigner taunt) and the demand is growing that we find a way to play to those side's exacting standards. That might mean metaphoric blood being spilt but if it's required, it'll happen. The IRFU itself will demand results. Pressure is on for players and coaches alike.

The problem does partly stem from having 2 very succesfull club sides who play very different types of game! The shift in power is now with Leinster, but they are trying to play the 'munster way' almost, the emphasis on the pack being bullying at the breakdown, but the Leinster backs and backrow want to be more expansive, and express more, and they have to get frustrated by it as it works so well for their club!

There just seems to be a lack of collected ethos, especially when BODs not their to unite them.

thebluesmancometh wrote:The problem does partly stem from having 2 very succesfull club sides who play very different types of game! The shift in power is now with Leinster, but they are trying to play the 'munster way' almost, the emphasis on the pack being bullying at the breakdown, but the Leinster backs and backrow want to be more expansive, and express more, and they have to get frustrated by it as it works so well for their club!

There just seems to be a lack of collected ethos, especially when BODs not their to unite them.

Good summary of the problem we critics see as just now needing a real solution. It's gone on too long this mismash of styles that no player seems comfortable with - it doesn't suit either Leinster players or Munster players. It's just not a proper structure to bring to International games. And it might come from a new coach and it might come with another BIG Meeting (Irish rugby has had a few of those where players and coaches and perhaps IRFU officials meet in a hotel, seal off all doors, get in their anti-bugging scanners, have snipers on the roofs and then proceed to knock the stuffing out of each other verbally and physically until one unified gameplan comes out at the end.

Wales are playing some great, crafty, quick and punishingly ruthless rugby. We fans know our players can play their own version of ruthless perpetual movement rugby. We won't tolerate being left behind as International rugby theory moves forward

SecretFly wrote: it doesn't suit either Leinster players or Munster players

Either you've forgotten that there's 4 provinces or you are suggesting that Ulster and Connacht players are more adaptable? Why thank you sir....

I feel that the outsiders get bored when I mention the other two!

"Yeah, yeah... here comes the Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Connacht guy. So pray *yawn* what do you have for us today oh Munster, Leinster, Ulster and Connacht oracle???"

...Sorry, Rodders. Won't happen again - but we're going to have to invent a shorthand that takes care of all of them in one swoop.

Don't worry secretfly to be honest I'd rather you forgot about us after a defeat....just make sure to remember theres 4 of us when we beat France next week....

If we beat France I'll be celebrating Trimble's two, Best's one, Bowe's buttery fingered dramatic will-he-won't-he touchdown and Paddy Wallace's tour-de-force final 3 minute substitution spell of 4 beauties!

Now nobody dare waken me, ya'hear!!!!

All Irish ERC final
Poor 6 Nations, humiliated by England
3 of the 6 play off contenders in the Rabo Direct
Losing quarter finalists in the World Cup
Munster A win B&I Cup

The dichotomy between sweet club success and international constipation only points to one thing. Pina collada sipping Nice Guy Deccie is a busted flush.

True Glas. Leinster might do back to back HC's and a domestic/euro double. The last team to do that were Tigers, and a World Cup winning England side was built around them.

Now I don't think Ireland should be winning World Cups. And I don't think we have any divine right to be winning the 6 Nations either. Wales and England are to good for us to expect to beat them all the time. I just think it's totally obvious that Ireland should be playing much better. It's the performances as well as the results that stink.

It's obvious that Ireland are playing an entirely different brand of rugby to Leinster. It's obvious which way the players are more comfortable with. And it's obvious which way is more successful. Leinster are in their 3rd final in 4 years. It's unfortunate that by the time Deccie's contract runs out, this great Leinster side may well be on the decline.

Well my comment was tongue in cheek, but your response is honest. BOD was more to do with the '09 success. It may even have come despite of Deccie, not because of him.

Feckless Rogue wrote:True Glas. Leinster might do back to back HC's and a domestic/euro double. The last team to do that were Tigers, and a World Cup winning England side was built around them.

Now I don't think Ireland should be winning World Cups. And I don't think we have any divine right to be winning the 6 Nations either. Wales and England are to good for us to expect to beat them all the time. I just think it's totally obvious that Ireland should be playing much better. It's the performances as well as the results that stink.

It's obvious that Ireland are playing an entirely different brand of rugby to Leinster. It's obvious which way the players are more comfortable with. And it's obvious which way is more successful. Leinster are in their 3rd final in 4 years. It's unfortunate that by the time Deccie's contract runs out, this great Leinster side may well be on the decline.

Don't you worry Feckless, Ulster will have taken on the mantle by then and perhaps the IRFU will have noticed the contribution of Brian McLaughlin and will have installed him as Head Coach.
Bit one eyed if you think it's only Leinster that can influence how Ireland might play.

Glas a du wrote:All Irish ERC final
Poor 6 Nations, humiliated by England
3 of the 6 play off contenders in the Rabo Direct
Losing quarter finalists in the World Cup
Munster A win B&I Cup

The dichotomy between sweet club success and international constipation only points to one thing. Pina collada sipping Nice Guy Deccie is a busted flush.

I've been saying this since last season. The state of the national side is unacceptable considering the resources available.

Deccie is the right coach at the wrong time and has been since January 2010.

Thanks for the GS but please feic off and let someone who knows what they doing in the modern game do the job before things get any worse .

Rava

You are so proud of Ulster, you are about to burst, I love it!

The point is a fair one though. the three Irish provinces are very strong, so the national team should be.

Rava wrote:Bit one eyed if you think it's only Leinster that can influence how Ireland might play.

My post did sound like it's all about Leinster, sorry. I am being a bit one eyed. But in attack I really do think Ireland should be trying to mimic Leinster. I think the half backs should be the Leinster half backs. I don't think Ireland should be afraid of building a squad around a successful Leinster core and playing the way Leinster do. Of course Ferris, Best, Trimble, Bowe, Ryan, POC, POM, Earls and others can make Ireland even better. It's the style of play I think Deccie's getting wrong and Leinster are getting right.

To be fair to Deccie he did flirt with the idea of a more attack minded game. It just didn't click. We were mixing and matching the half-backs constantly. Why didn't we just play the established Leinster partnership? Ever. We lost at home to Scotland among other bad results. And the defensive win over Australia convinced him the kick-chase-defend game was the way to go. But he's wrong. Gaffney was either useless as an attack coach or he wasn't being given any influence on the team by Deccie. Now we have no attack coach and it shows.

Maybe Deccie can redeem himself. But we need a good attack coach in the setup and we need him yesterday. And we need to get away from the aimless, clueless kicking game and play attacking rugby. We have the likes of Sexton, O'Driscoll, Earls, Bowe, Kearney, Fitzgerald and Trimble. But their main function seems to be to kick the ball up in the air and hand possession back to the opposition! It doesn't make sense to me. When they're forced by the scoreline to hold onto the ball they invariably score tries. Even without any really good attacking patterns or decent set plays. So why don't they hold onto the ball more?

I agree with all of that Feckless.

Except none of this will happen under Kidney. He's had more than long enough to implement a gameplan and attacking patterns and he's failed.

The team hes picking isn't clicking and he doesn't have the tactical nouse to put the square pegs in the square holes to sort things out.

nz is the last chance saloon for me. we have an all irish HC final coming up and could well have an Irish rabo winner aswell. Irish provinces have turned over teams rammed with internationals all year. The step up cannot be used as an excuse. Its an absolute cop out. Also the old chestnut that Botha,Afoa and Nacewa are not Irish therefore we struggle must stop. We have more than enough good players in the back 3.

we must see progress in terms of performances and style of play in New Zealand. A win would be magnificent but giving them a few real scares playing good rugby with some fresh blood would be ok.

3 defeats and a game plan based on kicking the ball up in to the air over and over again will be the final straw. that on top of an Irish winner of the HC and Rabo.

Ha, just came across this on youtube. Found it pretty funny!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNzpBJzCOGI&feature=relmfu

We all know Bowe is not going on tour.

Well I have heard there is a chance Best and Ferris might not make it either.

Anyone else likely to miss out through medical reasons ?