Viv Richards and measuring ODI performance across eras

I "stumbled" (well, the Cricinfo text commentator in the SA vs SL ODI put up the link) across this article this afternoon: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/537629.html . In it Cricinfo's Stats editor (now that is almost my dream job ) talks about how ODI batting averages and strike rates have inflated over the years. Then he compares players' average X strike rate with all top-7 batsmen in their era, and ranks them based on how much better than their peers they were. The list of rop-ranked ODI batsmen that results comes out as:
1. Viv Richards
2. MS Dhoni
3. Michael Bevan (somewhat inflated by his having been not out one innings in every 3)
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Dean Jones
6. Matthew Hayden
7. Virender Sehwag
8. Gordon Greenidge
9. Adam Gilchrist

Viv's average/strike rate combined puts him at over twice as good as the average ODI batsmen in his era. That's not quite in in the Bradman bracket, but it's pretty impressive.

the odi strike rate will get higher as the years go on, as when odi's were first played 200 was a good score, so they will get higher

A very interesting analysis -
Viv's average (47.0) has only been bettered by Bevan (Mr Not Out) and Dhoni (whose SR is only marginally inferior at 88.3) , and hs strike rate (90.2) only by Sehwag, Gilchrist and Jayasuriya, all of who only average in the low to mid 30s.

Even without the context of how the game has evolved, only Dhoni is really comparable for stats (higher product of avg x SR), with Sachin a tad behind in both average and strike rate.

Add to this the imposing qualities Viv had as a batsman, plus his winning one World Cup final with his fielding and you clearly have one helluva player.

cricketfan90 wrote:the odi strike rate will get higher as the years go on, as when odi's were first played 200 was a good score, so they will get higher

Personally think that, as in FC and test cricket a number of decades after they began, the improvement in skills and techniques in one-day cricket will plateau out at some point not too far in the future and, from that point on, increases in performance will be a lot more gradual than they have been over the last couple of decades.

Kiwireddevil wrote:Then he compares players' average X strike rate with all top-7 batsmen in their era, and ranks them based on how much better than their peers they were. The list of rop-ranked ODI batsmen that results comes out as:

Now where have I seen that formula before?

I wonder how Amla compares with his average of 57 and strike rate of 90?

Hoggy
While you are probably correct, I think the advent of 20-20 and the consequent changes in expectation and approach from the batsmen may mean that the plateau in ODIs has just been moved up a long way.

Biltong: Amla would jump to the head of the list quite comfortably. Dhoni's in second overall with an average just over 50 and a SR of 88 .
How many matches has Amla played so far?

I think the formula is a pretty good one for ODIs, but less so for Tests and 20-20 (obviously for opposing reasons that it over and undervalues strike rate in the other forms).

Biltong - I knew you would head to this article like a moth to a flame!

dummy half, he has played 54 matches.

guildfordbat wrote:Biltong - I knew you would head to this article like a moth to a flame!

Guildford, it just shows you, stats can make an interesting article, maybe I shouldn't be the one writing them.

dummy_half wrote:I think the formula is a pretty good one for ODIs, but less so for Tests and 20-20 (obviously for opposing reasons that it over and undervalues strike rate in the other forms).

Come now mate, don't burst my bubble. At least I can brag and say he saw that formula on 606v2, and learn't something.

biltongbek wrote:

dummy_half wrote:I think the formula is a pretty good one for ODIs, but less so for Tests and 20-20 (obviously for opposing reasons that it over and undervalues strike rate in the other forms).

Come now mate, don't burst my bubble. At least I can brag and say he saw that formula on 606v2, and learn't something.

He wrote the article back in October admittedly Biltong

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

dummy_half wrote:I think the formula is a pretty good one for ODIs, but less so for Tests and 20-20 (obviously for opposing reasons that it over and undervalues strike rate in the other forms).

Come now mate, don't burst my bubble. At least I can brag and say he saw that formula on 606v2, and learn't something.

He wrote the article back in October admittedly Biltong

Now, THAT you didn't have to tell me.

biltongbek wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

dummy_half wrote:I think the formula is a pretty good one for ODIs, but less so for Tests and 20-20 (obviously for opposing reasons that it over and undervalues strike rate in the other forms).

Come now mate, don't burst my bubble. At least I can brag and say he saw that formula on 606v2, and learn't something.

He wrote the article back in October admittedly Biltong

Now, THAT you didn't have to tell me.

For the 2nd time in 5 minutes Biltong,

I would say (very crudely, based on Dhoni's score of 1.80 and scaling up by 15% for Amla's better average and marginally better strike rate) that Amla would come out with a "score" between 2.0 and 2.1 (ie just over twice as good as the "average" modern ODI batsman). Viv is at 2.19, so Amla's closing him down rapidly.

biltongbek wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Biltong - I knew you would head to this article like a moth to a flame!

Guildford, it just shows you, stats can make an interesting article, maybe I shouldn't be the one writing them.

Biltong - all articles can be interesting, matey.

In anything worthwhile and successful, you need a mix of types. An old sporting comment on a good team - you don't just need piano players but piano tuners and piano shifters as well! As true for this forum as any team.

You stick at it - any heckling you get is nothing compared to how much we'd miss your articles if they weren't here !

Oh, so now I am a shifter.

Geez, luckily I am not too sensitive, otherwise I would be standing on a ledge somewhere contemplating the here after.

biltongbek wrote:Oh, so now I am a shifter.

Geez, luckily I am not too sensitive, otherwise I would be standing on a ledge somewhere contemplating the here after.

Biltong - in my analogy, surely you're the essential tuner - of all stats!

You are not really making me feel any better mate.

So you guys are the bunch of maestro's jumping on my back because the piano is out of tune?

biltong

cricketfan90 wrote:biltong

At least it seems there is one guy on here who is in my corner. Thanks mate.

no worries, i thought your formula was very good!

Biltong - good job I claim no counselling skills!

I set out a few posts ago trying to compliment and reassure you and now have you on a ledge contemplating the hereafter with you seeing several of us pushing you and yelling ''Jump!'' ....

Yeah, at the time of writing it I thought it was rather brilliant and original too.

But then it didn't take long to realise it wasn't.

At that atge I could still hold on to the thought that I was the first, but alas now Kiwireddevil just burst my bubble by telling me it was already done in October of last year.

So now I just feel like a copycat with not an original idea in my head.

its good that your not dramatic about it at all

guildfordbat wrote:I set out a few posts ago trying to compliment and reassure you and now have you on a ledge contemplating the hereafter with you seeing several of us pushing you and yelling ''Jump!'' ....

Problem is I am a sadist, so to spite you all, I wont jump.

cricketfan90 wrote:its good that your not dramatic about it at all

Yeah, not dramatic at all.

Tell you what though, it makes for damn good entertainment on a friday evening.

good man

i agree lol.

"Add to this the imposing qualities Viv had as a batsman, plus his
winning one World Cup final with his fielding and you clearly have one
helluva player."

Viv Richards may have played a few great ODI innings but there is something he could never do whilst batting either for Somerset or for the West Indies. He could never whistle while he worked!