The Cardiff Blues need a fresh start

Right lets start off with agreeing that the Region isn’t working, empty stadiums are no fun for the diehard fans that do turn up or the players, if anything it gives the advantage back to the away team.

The Blues CE has ruled out a move back to the Arms Park which IMO is the right thing to do, but something has to be done.

What I’d do is,

1 – Drop the Cardiff part from the name

2 – Drop the Blues part of the name, it wasn’t very original to begin with so a new identity needs to be created plus new kit that has elements of other famous clubs based in the Region.

3- If the Region is going to work then it needs to move around for a few games, local derby’s should all be played at he Cardiff City Stadium but maybe 3 or 4 of the other games could be played elsewhere. This is the only way more fans will connect to the Region, of course it won’t happen over night it will take time but compared to what is currently happening it would be a positive step in the right direction.

So you want them to drop the Cardiff bit and the Blues bit? What are they going to be called? Should they just have a squiggle like Prince had?

Its a fresh start come up with a name.

I actually agree with most of this. Other than dropping the “blues” part of it.

Leinster, for example, had a pretty huge increase in attendances when they moved from Donnybrook to the RDS, it was a gamble and we could have ended up with an empty stadium but DB was always close to full to begin with. Were attendances at the CAP ever high enough to require a move to CCS? Also, I would imagine the blues had to sign some long term contract with Cardiff Utd in terms of the amount of games which will be played at the CCS, which might be tricky to back out of, I know Leinster would have similar problems if they (for example) wanted to play every league game in Lansdowne Road.

Their website makes me laugh too.

59 appearances in European rugby according to their stats. Then the headline is "100 up in Europe for Blues"

With the smallprint including Cardiff RFC matches.

But Cardiff Blues is a continuation of Cardiff RFC, it is a stand alone region, which is why it includes Cardiff RFC matches.

gcBlues wrote:But Cardiff Blues is a continuation of Cardiff RFC, it is a stand alone region, which is why it includes Cardiff RFC matches.

Why do all their stats start from 2003 then?

http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/statistics.php

http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/appearances.php

Yet for this magical match they've decided to forget the rebranding of the Blues and dig out the old stuff so they can call it "100 matches"

Chunky Norwich wrote:

gcBlues wrote:But Cardiff Blues is a continuation of Cardiff RFC, it is a stand alone region, which is why it includes Cardiff RFC matches.

Why do all their stats start from 2003 then?

http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/statistics.php

http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/appearances.php

Yet for this magical match they've decided to forget the rebranding of the Blues and dig out the old stuff so they can call it "100 matches"

Scarlets 103 games
Cardiff Blues 99 games
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/elite/index.php

I wonder though can Cardiff Blues drop the Cardiff and become the Blues?

as the Blues name is already used by a NZ team Formally the Auckland (sp)Blues, who changed to just be the Blues, they would have copyrighted this for marketing purposes, so therefor Cardiff Blues couldn't just drop Cardiff, they would have to completey rebrand if they are to drop Cardiff.

I think for a Cardiff region to work properly, it can't just be owned and controlled by Cardiff RFC, as this will always lead to claims of favourtism and super club etc etc.

What has to be done to make the region as success if for Cardiff to sell shares in teh region to other big clubs in the area (Ponty and others), so the people in controll of it are a mix of the best people from the region, and not just the ones who control Cardiff RFC. They'll need so set up a very strict ownership model and board to prevent fallings out between Chairmen and benefactors etc. Best have it that the region owners (mix of clubs) vote to elect a board and this board has final say on the running of rugby in the region.

Once this is in place a new identy can be taken up, with has no connections to any clubs in the area (so everyone can get behind them, [ I suggest a white strip to symbolise a clean start]) no history , and a name that connects everybody.

Once this is done maybe, just maybe a true regional team will have been formed. But will rugby fans in teh region and city support it?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Scarlets 103 games
Cardiff Blues 99 games
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/elite/index.php

So why do Cardiff dispute it? (Normally).

It's to sell a few tickets I assume. Next week they'll go abck to "we rebranded in 2003".

I went to the Blues/Leinster match and there were still fans shouting for 'Kaaaarrrdifff'

Its not a region.

munkian wrote:I went to the Blues/Leinster match and there were still fans shouting for 'Kaaaarrrdifff'

Of course there were. The name of the team is Cardiff Blues.

Why they haven't rebranded to just be the Blues I don't know. I live and work in Cardiff and the vast majority of peope I know call them the Blues. It may not make a difference in terms of support but it can't cause any harm. Will any current supporters leave if Cardiff is dropped? I doubt it. Will it make others more likely to go? Maybe.

There are other important issues they need to sort out too. The new CEO says it's great value at £24 for a family of 4. What about if you're not a family of 4? £22 for the cheapest ticket is way too expensive. I regularly went to CAP to watch and paid £12 to stand on the terrace. I've been 3 times this season, not because I don't want to go but because of the price. The other issue is the atmosphere. The fact is that in the big stadium unless the crowd is 15,000+ there is none. These 2 things surely go hand in hand. Drop ticket prices to a reasonable level and more people will go and therefore create a better atmopsphere. What they lose out on in ticket revenue will be minimal if the crowds are bigger and they will make a lot more on the concessions. Lets see what this new CEO does? Not a lot is my guess!

But if they were to re-brand themselves and opt for a new kit then it might not be Blue, so calling themselves the Blues might be a problem.

Best to drop both names IMO and go for something new that represents the Region as a whole.

Objectivity is obviously not a necessity...!

Eclipse wrote:Why they haven't rebranded to just be the Blues I don't know. I live and work in Cardiff and the vast majority of peope I know call them the Blues.
Drop ticket prices to a reasonable level and more people will go and therefore create a better atmopsphere. What they lose out on in ticket revenue will be minimal if the crowds are bigger and they will make a lot more on the concessions. Lets see what this new CEO does? Not a lot is my guess!

For the first point see my earlier post, I don't think they can drop cardiff and become just the Blues as that name would already be copyrighted by the NZ team, meaning if they even wanted to drop Cardiff they would have to completly rebrand, with in marketing terms would be expensive, and may alienate supporters.

Second point is cheaper tickets, it is my understanding that for the last 2 seasons they have been giving out free tickets in supermarkets and everywhere, to teh point season ticket holders have got annoyed they paid full price and there are people who see a number of games, for free. Also from what red stag said in other posts he went to a H-cup game and the tickets were the cheapest, he has encountered for a H-cup game in UK and Ireland, so I think Cardiff blues for all there flaws are trying on the front.

You lot are nuts.

We've already seen a massive crowd drop just by moving to a football stadium. hundreds of CARDIFF fans have been disengaged.

If they drop Cardiff and a blue kit. The team will lose the little support it has.

Those who think Ponty fans will watch rugby in Cardiff are out of touch and talking nonsense.

If there are lots of free tickets floating around I and all of my mates must be missing them. There are some offers occasionally but they need to reduce the prices as a whole and advertise the fact everywhere. I understand they can't do it this season as season ticket holders would be up in arms (no pun intended) but they really need to look at their pricing structure for next season.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

So why do Cardiff dispute it? (Normally).

It's to sell a few tickets I assume. Next week they'll go abck to "we rebranded in 2003".

Dunno would be my honest answer.
But it seems to me that when it suits them, they try to be one thing to appeal to one group of fans, then something else to appeal to another group, but end up appealing to neither.
It's the people in charge who are to blame for the mess and disjointed thinking. They were rubbish when Cardiff Blues were at the Arms Park and they are still rubbish now.
The business accounts are due to be published at the end of the month I think. Should make some sobering reading.

"Those who think Ponty fans will watch rugby in Cardiff are out of touch and talking nonsense."


Don't they have cars?

HERSH wrote:"Those who think Ponty fans will watch rugby in Cardiff are out of touch and talking nonsense."


Don't they have cars?

By the sound of it, some Ponty fans would never drive again if someone pointed out that virtually all cars have differentials.

I'll get me coat.

Well, it looks like they won't be moving back to CAP BBC STORY

Everyone knows the problem is with 1 syllable names

There's a simple solution to that:

"BLOUSES! BLOUSES!"

luckless_pedestrian wrote:So you want them to drop the Cardiff bit and the Blues bit? What are they going to be called? Should they just have a squiggle like Prince had?

Call them "the team formerly known as the Cardiff Blues" I like it - and I bet no team in New Zealand or anywhere else would have copyrighted that name!

Chunky Norwich wrote:

munkian wrote:I went to the Blues/Leinster match and there were still fans shouting for 'Kaaaarrrdifff'

Of course there were. The name of the team is Cardiff Blues.

So why not chant "Blues, Blues, Blues" as that is their nickname as well as part of their name

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

munkian wrote:I went to the Blues/Leinster match and there were still fans shouting for 'Kaaaarrrdifff'

Of course there were. The name of the team is Cardiff Blues.

So why not chant "Blues, Blues, Blues" as that is their nickname as well as part of their name

Some do chant "Blues, Blues, Blues".
Others chant "Allez les Bleus".
A select few also chant "Come on you lazy feckers".

'WAKE UP' is a particular favourite

IronMike wrote:Everyone knows the problem is with 1 syllable names

Never used to seem like a problem for NEEF NEEF NEEF

gcBlues wrote:'WAKE UP' is a particular favourite

While the economy and regionalisation might be valid reasons.
The main one for all the regions i feel is the quality of rugby and entertainment.

I was chanting ' Parks you lazy f*%&# !'

What about 'Ponty' for a new name.

It's catchy.

It could mean that the team actually starts playing with a bit of pride and passion rather than going through the motions like they seem to be. Perhaps people might turn up to see the 'product'.

Black and white are nice colours ....

How about we merge Ponty & Cardiff colours, so instead of Cardiff Blues it'd be Cardiff Blue & Blacks

Some good points from the OP.

Would be hard to rebrand the Blues at this stage but to get the hinterland support its needed. Blues need to get away from being seen as Cardiff RFC reincarnated. Difficulty though is that they wont be able to drop to just the Blues with that surely already copy righted down in New Zealand.

Are there stadiums in the region that the Blues can use to move a few games around? Its something that works well and keeps the support up taking Munster and Musgrave Park as an example.

Should definately consider a move back to the Arms Park. The new place just seems empty and souless. Again they might have problems here as surely they have a significant amount of money tied up in the lease.

To be fair if regionalism had been properly considered by the WRFU before setting out maybe these problems wouldnt be here now. The Irish regions work a treat but they aren't 100% comparitable

Danny

It was thought through properly by the WRU ...... then the clubs got involved and it spiralled downward in to the mess we have today.

The old saying ' a camel is a horse designed by a committee ' springs to mind .......

gcBlues wrote:How about we merge Ponty & Cardiff colours, so instead of Cardiff Blues it'd be Cardiff Blue & Blacks

Unfortunately putting these two sets of supporters together they'll end up being Black and Blue!

But it's a good point the Blues don't like the CCS coz it's a football stadium and empty and souless, so they want to go to a smaller more intimate rugby stadium were the atmosphere will be intense - but they also need to involve the rest of the region and get away from being Cardiff RFC Mark II, so the perfect solution is a great stadium with proud rugby history just a short way down the A470 - why don't the Blues move to Sardis Road!

Good point about playing in different stadiums Danny_Boy

Surely taking a game to Sardis Road would be a step forward.
But the Blues are owned by Cardiff RFC so i doubt they would do it.

I think anything at this stage would be considered taking a step forward!
Never been to Sardis but a quick Wiki shows its a good size. Surely has a better atmosphere then the current ground and would at least get some of the Ponty fans involved with the region. Would be a perfect start

Im not even saying they should move there permanently. Just have a few games there every season.
In fact I think all the regions should do the same. There is too much history with club rugby in Wales for the regions to ignore them. The Ospreys are probably the only team that does it, they usually play a game or two at the Brewery Field.
And If you look at the NZ Super 15 teams they move games around their regions.

Good points guys but they have already been pointed out, by me.

Oh my bad i kinda just skimmed through the comments.

Thats ok guys, feel the love.

I'm suprised nobodies outraged at my (joking) suggestion.

I think GoWales' idea is a good one - I know the Ospreys are doing it in the main coz Cuddy owns the Brewery, but it seems to create a good atmosphere and a real buzz in the region and has really included Bridgend in the O's region.
The other regions should look to do it (obviously the ground work would need to be done first) - though not sure where the Scarlets would play, Carmarthen I suppose but not sure how big their stadium is - all Wiki (that trusted fountain of knowledge) says is that they play at Carmarthen Park but there's no mention of them on Carmarthen Parks page. And I'm not sure how excluded Carmarthen feel for the Scarlets region. Or there's Llandovery and I suppose it would make it a bit easier for mid West Wales fans to get to the games - it's probably the best option and (again according to Wiki) have got a 5,000 capacity at their ground.

Eclipse wrote:If there are lots of free tickets floating around I and all of my mates must be missing them. There are some offers occasionally but they need to reduce the prices as a whole and advertise the fact everywhere. I understand they can't do it this season as season ticket holders would be up in arms (no pun intended) but they really need to look at their pricing structure for next season.

This is true, most of the "Free" tickets are given to sponsors and whilst they do not give money for tickets, they do give money to the region, so they are paid for. When you consider most regions do try and give tickets away to children to promote themselves then their not doing too much wrong.

Lets put this another way, imagine if the Premier league didnt have enough money for their amount of clubs so they decided to merge some, Everton with Liverpool, Manchester United with Manchester City, Spurs and Arsenal, okay now we will call these new teams Manchester United Red Devils, Arsenal Gunners, and Liverpool Reds do you really think the Spurs, City and Everton fans will just simply start going to Old Trafford, Emirates Stadium and Anfield?

The fact is Pontypridd are never going to support the blues, their fans want a team of their own playing at Sardis road, but they couldn't afford it in 2004, hence why their sold their half share of the Celtic Warriors in the first place. If they can't afford professional rugby in 2004, they CANNOT afford it in 2012, and 5,000 fans for a local derby with Cardiff RFC, many of whom were away fans is not proof that rugby can be sustained there.

I went to Cardiff RFC to watch last weeks game with Swansea and I over heard a few fans talking about the Blues, they won't go there, they don;t like the stadium, lack of atmosphere, rebranding etc, so are quite happy to stay in the Arms Park and watch Cardiff. Good for them, it is a nice ground and a nice, cheap day out, without a lot of pushing and shoving and drunk idiots.

I also went to St Helens to watch the reverse fixture. The key differences between the Old clubs and the new regions is age of the fans. When you go to the Blues and Ospreys you see younger people with children, when you go to the old clubs you see mainly pensioners. Look at the Swansea RFC area on the Ospreys forum, every second topic is an obituary, when I went there everyone was about 60-80, and there were not many children.

The only exception in my experience is the Dragons, Ive been to Rodney Parade about 6 times this season, 5 for the Dragons and once for Newport and they seen to have the mix of kids and families, while the old men who were there when tries were worth 3 points, are still sat on the same seats in the club house by the club captain board. The other difference with the Dragons is there are women who go there alone or in groups to watch the rugby, where as with the other 3 regions it's women dragged there by their husbands. Newport and Gwent seems more of a condensed rugby area than the football cities of Cardiff and Swansea.
The Dragons haven't upped sticks and moved and in the long run it has helped them retain their fan,s and they seem to be winning the battle with many fans from Gwent now going there.

Newport doesn't have a reasonably successful football team though. My family in Newport support the Blue birds

AlynDavies wrote:

Eclipse wrote:If there are lots of free tickets floating around I and all of my mates must be missing them. There are some offers occasionally but they need to reduce the prices as a whole and advertise the fact everywhere. I understand they can't do it this season as season ticket holders would be up in arms (no pun intended) but they really need to look at their pricing structure for next season.

This is true, most of the "Free" tickets are given to sponsors and whilst they do not give money for tickets, they do give money to the region, so they are paid for. When you consider most regions do try and give tickets away to children to promote themselves then their not doing too much wrong.

Lets put this another way, imagine if the Premier league didnt have enough money for their amount of clubs so they decided to merge some, Everton with Liverpool, Manchester United with Manchester City, Spurs and Arsenal, okay now we will call these new teams Manchester United Red Devils, Arsenal Gunners, and Liverpool Reds do you really think the Spurs, City and Everton fans will just simply start going to Old Trafford, Emirates Stadium and Anfield?

The fact is Pontypridd are never going to support the blues, their fans want a team of their own playing at Sardis road, but they couldn't afford it in 2004, hence why their sold their half share of the Celtic Warriors in the first place. If they can't afford professional rugby in 2004, they CANNOT afford it in 2012, and 5,000 fans for a local derby with Cardiff RFC, many of whom were away fans is not proof that rugby can be sustained there.

I went to Cardiff RFC to watch last weeks game with Swansea and I over heard a few fans talking about the Blues, they won't go there, they don;t like the stadium, lack of atmosphere, rebranding etc, so are quite happy to stay in the Arms Park and watch Cardiff. Good for them, it is a nice ground and a nice, cheap day out, without a lot of pushing and shoving and drunk idiots.

I also went to St Helens to watch the reverse fixture. The key differences between the Old clubs and the new regions is age of the fans. When you go to the Blues and Ospreys you see younger people with children, when you go to the old clubs you see mainly pensioners. Look at the Swansea RFC area on the Ospreys forum, every second topic is an obituary, when I went there everyone was about 60-80, and there were not many children.

The only exception in my experience is the Dragons, Ive been to Rodney Parade about 6 times this season, 5 for the Dragons and once for Newport and they seen to have the mix of kids and families, while the old men who were there when tries were worth 3 points, are still sat on the same seats in the club house by the club captain board. The other difference with the Dragons is there are women who go there alone or in groups to watch the rugby, where as with the other 3 regions it's women dragged there by their husbands. Newport and Gwent seems more of a condensed rugby area than the football cities of Cardiff and Swansea.
The Dragons haven't upped sticks and moved and in the long run it has helped them retain their fan,s and they seem to be winning the battle with many fans from Gwent now going there.

The Brewery field gets quite a good mix of ages ranging from kids to the old guard, and quite a few well known faces too. I went to watch Bridgend vs Llanelli a couple of weeks ago, easily a couple of thousand there. Plus Sean Holley, Matthew Morgan, Gareth Jenkins, John Devereux. When i've gone there for the Ospreys games it has always been sold out. It took the Ospreys a while, but they have realised the potential in the Bridgend area in terms of support and player base. I expect the Breery field to be pretty sold out for the Dragons game.

The difference is Ponty and Cardiff were the biggest rivals, you could never really make a region from the two, not that cardiff were ever really going to bother

Maybe they could rebrand the team - drop the Cardiff and call themselves the Blue & Blacks - play half the games in Blue in the CAP and the other half at Sardis road in Black!

It could be the best of both worlds!