Exposing the Oscar De la Hoya hypocrisy!!

First topic message reminder :

I know there are some strange people who deny this guy greatness but let's look at the facts...

At the top of his game from 1994-2008....Yep that's 14 years...How many was Hagler there for.....???

How many genuine world class fighters or champions did Hagler beat??? (Duran at 160, Hearns, Minter,Briscoe maybe a few others).....

We know that DelaHoya beat Chavez twice (bonafide great)...Whittaker (bonafide great)....

Sure Hagler beat world class fighters.....we know however that DelaHoya beat 13 champions at or nearly at the top of their game!!

Mayorga, Vargas, Quartey, Sturm, Gatti, Camacho (maybe not), Gonzales, Molina, Paez, Hernandez, Whittaker, Chavez twice..(Not forgetting mosley was contentious twice)

Yes Oscar lost fights but hey I'm always told that Duran lost to fighters at higher weights....Hearns, Hagler, Sims, Laing etc....Yep Oscar lost to some greats too...and he started at 130....

Those defeats don't cost Duran do they....

He didn't clean up a division and reign there for years is another slap....Sorry but he looked for hard fights and the names....More impressive than another so-called great (Pedroza)....Hagler let's face it didn't fancy Spinks who called him out..

In conclusion I know Oscar is a latter modern day fighter but his record and longevity more than matches Hagler...Who has every right to HOF status...This isn't a Hagler bashing thread..

Please give him the respect he's due..one of the best fighters I've had the pleasure of seeing..Bonafide great..

Thankyou..

Nico the gman wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Duran - Easy to hit Hatton is Pep Reincarnated is he?

Your going to explain that one to Waingro, about pep.

Go on, Shah. Give Waingro a Pep talk.

Ok.

Willie Pep are a brand of erection pills for your toe fetish

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I know there are some strange people who deny this guy greatness but let's look at the facts...

At the top of his game from 1994-2008....Yep that's 14 years...How many was Hagler there for.....???

How many genuine world class fighters or champions did Hagler beat??? (Duran at 160, Hearns, Minter,Briscoe maybe a few others).....

We know that DelaHoya beat Chavez twice (bonafide great)...Whittaker (bonafide great)....

Sure Hagler beat world class fighters.....we know however that DelaHoya beat 13 champions at or nearly at the top of their game!!

Mayorga, Vargas, Quartey, Sturm, Gatti, Camacho (maybe not), Gonzales, Molina, Paez, Hernandez, Whittaker, Chavez twice..(Not forgetting mosley was contentious twice)

Yes Oscar lost fights but hey I'm always told that Duran lost to fighters at higher weights....Hearns, Hagler, Sims, Laing etc....Yep Oscar lost to some greats too...and he started at 130....

Those defeats don't cost Duran do they....

He didn't clean up a division and reign there for years is another slap....Sorry but he looked for hard fights and the names....More impressive than another so-called great (Pedroza)....Hagler let's face it didn't fancy Spinks who called him out..

In conclusion I know Oscar is a latter modern day fighter but his record and longevity more than matches Hagler...Who has every right to HOF status...This isn't a Hagler bashing thread..

Please give him the respect he's due..one of the best fighters I've had the pleasure of seeing..Bonafide great..

Thankyou..

agree with every word to be honest. if some of the other supposed modern greats had taken as many risks, im sure they would have more losses on their records too

Oscar was a great. Once again we have posters reminiscing about days gone by. Soon they'll be talking about how wiley and clever the old guys were. Effin joke.

For once I agree with you Az...

scandalous that some intelligent posters can't acknowledge his greatness

I would rate Oscar on a par with Hagler. To be honest I'd rate him above Hagler.

Great fighter - no doubt.

Truss i'm not sure how the fact me thinking Duran is leagues above Hatton and Tzuyu is doing either a diservice, they were both very good but fall well short of being great as the general consensus seems to be. As for Hatton beating Palomino, Cuevas or Buchanan i'm not too sure especially with the former two, one of whom was silky smooth and the other being one of the hardest hitting welterweights of all time.

De La Hoyas career is that of a great fighter but still don't consider him on the level of Hagler who's dominance of the Middleweight division for so long can't be overlooked. His opposition wasn't eye catching but many like Hamsho, Minter, Mugabi and Sibson were better than they're given credit for. Oscar losing to Trinidad and Mosley stops him being considered in the upper echelons, much of his multi weight achievements are based around the WBO title when it was still struggling for worldwide acceptance.

Just don't think Hatton is an easy night....as Hearns isn't for Robbo.....

Sure he found Manny's southpaw style completely baffling but last I saw Duran wasn't as cute as Mayweather or a southpaw...

As for anyone finding Hearns jab, speed and body punching easy to deal with then......well we won't go there...

Suggest everybody watch Hearns-Shuler to see how devastating he was..

The bottom line is if Oscar had fought in the black and white era he would be described as a freak of nature. Now every win/loss is analysed in great detail with the oldies given a pass. People mention dejesus et al. Esteban was a good fighter. Good but not great. Oscar would have handed him his rear end at LW. People question Pernell of JCC and say they were past their best. Maybe so. But those same people somehow big up Ancient Archie, Ancient Jow Louis, Jersey Joe and claim they were in the prime of their careers when a certain HW beat them.

The hypocracy is stunning.

Duran isn't as cute as Mayweather but he's skillful enough to negate Hattons pressure, as much as I like Ricky as a boxer he just wasn't that great, gave good entertainment but can't see him troubling Duran at all.

Look it's all about opinions and I respect yours...

Think Duran enjoyed the Hatton type more than slippery Benitez types...

However Hatton could be relentless and had so much heart and will...I think it would be a tough battle..

Did say I'd pick Duran though..

Duran walks past Hatton. It wouldn't even be competitive. Only time Hatton beats Duran is in a kebab and bear drinking contest.

I wouldn't like to try drinking a Grizzly.

Scottrf wrote:I wouldn't like to try drinking a Grizzly.

Smart Alec. Couldn't spell guiness (without spellcheck).

Like Kosta walked past him.....

come on...Duran wasn't that concussive a puncher....he has to wear Hatton down and that takes time and a lot of effort..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Look it's all about opinions and I respect yours...

Think Duran enjoyed the Hatton type more than slippery Benitez types...

However Hatton could be relentless and had so much heart and will...I think it would be a tough battle..

Did say I'd pick Duran though..

Everything Hatton can do Duran can do far better, can't see a way in which Hatton makes it remotely close.

In or around lightweight or light welterweight the only man I think could out tough Duran is Aaron Pryor, a real fight for the ages that could have been.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like Kosta walked past him.....

come on...Duran wasn't that concussive a puncher....he has to wear Hatton down and that takes time and a lot of effort..

Al LW/LWW he was. His subtle head movement to take the power off the punch was supreme. His attack was feroscious. JCC wasn't a huge hitter but he threw serious volumes with hurtful punches.

Hatton and Duran would be a close fight I think Hatton could win. De la Hoya was a class above though he would have far too much quality for them tbh I dont think it would be close.

He was subtle against Laing and Hearns wasn't he???

So we going to get light middleweight Roberto Duran and put him in with the Ricky Hatton of the Kostya Tzuyu fight are we?

Swap Hearns for Benitez then..

So Ricky Hatton has the style and defence of Benitez now then does he?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He was subtle against Laing and Hearns wasn't he???

That's where I agree with you. If Oscar had lost to someone like Laing he would get rightfully chastised for it and it would be used to bring down his status as an ATG. But Duran gets a pass as if the loss didn't occur.

Duran is overrated alot though people need to remember this

Ghosty stop it..I'm suggesting Duran wasn't as subtle as people are making him out...certainly Hearns, Benitez and Laing didn't find him to difficult a puzzle..etc

You're like a soccer manager who's team lose 4-0 trying to moan the 3rd goal was offside..

He was subtle in the division at which he excelled, I may as well bring up Camacho and Norris as a stick to beat Leonard with.

Never really beat anybody apart from Buchanan and dejesus....good wins but he did lose to Dejesus....and he was in his prime..

you do exaggerate...not one of your better idiosynchratic tendencies...

but on the whole you're alright..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ghosty stop it..I'm suggesting Duran wasn't as subtle as people are making him out...certainly Hearns, Benitez and Laing didn't find him to difficult a puzzle..etc

You're like a soccer manager who's team lose 4-0 trying to moan the 3rd goal was offside..

Duran was subtle in the way he moved his head to take off the full power of the blows. Hearns was too fast, Benetiz too slick and Laing on his day could beat many if they had an off day.

Duran was a great. Not in the top 10 imo. But a great nevertheless.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Never really beat anybody apart from Buchanan and dejesus....good wins but he did lose to Dejesus....and he was in his prime..

you do exaggerate...not one of your better idiosynchratic tendencies...

but on the whole you're alright..

Leonard.

You seem to have a tendency Truss to emphasise the bad of the fighters you don't like and the good of those you do.

Don't we all.....Even old hands like Windy do that...

guilty as charged but I do think suggesting Hatton is easy is wrong...

Duran and Hatton is a streetfight and both loved them...

azania wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Never really beat anybody apart from Buchanan and dejesus....good wins but he did lose to Dejesus....and he was in his prime..

you do exaggerate...not one of your better idiosynchratic tendencies...

but on the whole you're alright..

Leonard.

He was talking about his Lightweight career.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:You seem to have a tendency Truss to emphasise the bad of the fighters you don't like and the good of those you do.

And you dont? Tell me about Roy Jones Jnr?

de la hoya was average.

39 wins and 6 losses says it all. Lost almost all the important fights. and only beat bums or good fighters who were past it

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Don't we all.....Even old hands like Windy do that...

guilty as charged but I do think suggesting Hatton is easy is wrong...

Duran and Hatton is a streetfight and both loved them...

Moi?

Never, Sire.

Anyway, you lot, it's no good dragging me into this. I'm about to log off for the night, ( having already paid my dues to Oscar, by the way, az take note ) so you'll be beating up on a defenceless one.

Enjoy the boxing, guys, and Truss enjoy Hawaii Vice.

Oh, and please play nicely. Thanks.

Have a great one, all.

Truss I don't see how Hatton lives with a great fighter, he never did and he never could, he was a likeable chap who seems to get severely over rated by some.

lovely_london wrote:de la hoya was average.

39 wins and 6 losses says it all. Lost almost all the important fights. and only beat bums or good fighters who were past it

Log off now.

Well the voice of reason is here now......

bums and good fighters who were past it.....

Say no more..we've been owned.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Well the voice of reason is here now......

bums and good fighters who were past it.....

Say no more..we've been owned.

name me 5 good fighters who were in their prime that he beat.

lovely_london wrote:name me 5 good fighters who were in their prime that he beat.

Mayorga, Hernandez, Ruelas, Quartey, Vargas. Sturm and Mosley arguably.

I wasn't joking when I said log off.

Now think that's exaggerating a bit too far

Mayorga, Vargas, Sturm, Castillejo, Campas, Gatti, Quartey, Carr, Leija, Hernandez and any other whom i've forgotten were all good fighters somewhere near there bests when De La Hoya beat them.

Should have had a poll for this thread.....

I mean I've had a Hungarian and Croatian...

Scottrf wrote:

lovely_london wrote:name me 5 good fighters who were in their prime that he beat.

Mayorga, Hernandez, Ruelas, Quartey, Vargas. Sturm and Mosley arguably.

I wasn't joking when I said log off.

mosley beat de la hoya 2 times.

lovely_london wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

lovely_london wrote:name me 5 good fighters who were in their prime that he beat.

Mayorga, Hernandez, Ruelas, Quartey, Vargas. Sturm and Mosley arguably.

I wasn't joking when I said log off.

mosley beat de la hoya 2 times.

The button's right at the top of the page. On the right.

That's why he said arguably...

Or maybe you thought Mosley kicked his butt...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:That's why he said arguably...

Or maybe you thought Mosley kicked his butt...

mosley beat him TWO times.

lovely_london wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

lovely_london wrote:name me 5 good fighters who were in their prime that he beat.

Mayorga, Hernandez, Ruelas, Quartey, Vargas. Sturm and Mosley arguably.

I wasn't joking when I said log off.

mosley beat de la hoya 2 times.

Pretty selective memory you sport there, london, since you wrote this :

lovely_london wrote:There was people on here talking as if lewis schooled Klitschko. And the truth is that Klitschko schooled lewis.

and proceeded to make a song and dance about why Klitschko really beat Lewis.

lovely_london wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:That's why he said arguably...

Or maybe you thought Mosley kicked his butt...

mosley beat him TWO times.

Arguably.

lovely_london wrote:de la hoya was average.

39 wins and 6 losses says it all. Lost almost all the important fights. and only beat bums or good fighters who were past it

If you applied your flawed logic you could argue that Duran lost most of his crucial fights as well
I dont actually believe that is an accurate representation of Duran but it is similar to your apparent view of Oscar
Old school fighter like him a lot.

lovely_london wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:That's why he said arguably...

Or maybe you thought Mosley kicked his butt...

mosley beat him TWO times.

According to 3 judges. Another 3 judges could have scored it for Oscar. It was that close.