Ryder cup 2012

As you all know the Ryder cup is less than a year away.i want to know is who do think will be on the European team and the American team.

I'm probably taking a bit of a risk here, but I'm going to predict that there will be 12 golfers on each side.

Unfortunately, the Ryder Cup doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Marcus wrote:I'm probably taking a bit of a risk here, but I'm going to predict that there will be 12 golfers on each side.

Unfortunately, the Ryder Cup doesn't interest me in the slightest.

Why doesn't the Ryder cup interest you ? I personally love it

I used to like it, but over the years my opinion on it has changed.

It's a combination of things that have caused my views to change. It gets far too much exposure on Sky, and it drives me NUTS when Montgomerie refers back to his time as captain when answering any golf related question. (btw, I have some amazing info on Monty, but it's top top secret). Also, when Sky Sports News flash up one of their "489 days until the ryder cup" banners, it makes me want to throw things at the TV.

You can be in the middle of a major, playing the 17th hole on a Sunday, and you can bet with complete certainty that either useless Bruce Crotchless or even more useless Ewen Murray will comment on Ryder Cup points.

Then there's the match itself. I view golf as an individual sport. I hate playing foresomes or fourballs, and will only ever do so under protest. Then there's who we're actually supporting. I am patriotic, but I honestly can't be bothered to support a European side. If it was still GB&I, then great, but it's not.

Then there's the players. Europe take it far too seriously, with some players placing more emphasis on getting in the RC team than actually winning a major, yet the Americans seemingly only go through the motions, much preferring the President's Cup.


:puts on tin hat:

I agree that Sky do go to town over the Ryder Cup, but could part of it be because the matches could go either way, and since 1985 "we've" won more? - and that's something we've not done a lot of lately, whatever the sport?

I'm not denying that Europe have been very successful recently, and I am sure that there have been some exciting finishes, and I am sure that millions of people out there are glued to their seats for the entire duration, but the over-hyping has totally turned me off it.

I am sure that 99.9% of people would disagree with my views, and that's fair enough. I can only comment on my own personal opinions.

my guess for europe

donald
poulter
casey
rose
westwood
mcilroy

the above are deffos in my opinion(cant see casey leaving anything to chance this time and he will play on the euro tour almost exclusively to get in)

kaymer
mcdowel

above almost definites, even if they dont make it they will be wild cards

then

garcia
quiros
davies
dyson

other possibles

molinari
molinari
imenez
clarke
rock


american team

woods
stricker
johnson
simpson
watney
mickleson
van pelt
watson(bubba)
snedeker
badley
folwer
kucher

"I am patriotic, but I honestly can't be bothered to support a European side. If it was still GB&I, then great, but it's not."

not being funny mate- but it almost will be anyway

Think thats crap to think USA prefer the presidents cup to the Ryder cup. Your being stupid if you dont think they are desperate to beat Europe and to be fair I dont think either team care that much about the presidents cup.

I personally love the ryder cup and the reason sky go to town on it is cus 99.9 % of people love the event. BBC never did the event any justice.

Its just a fantastic event and I cant wait for it even 11 months to go.

Good call with that list Myst....

I would add Manassero to the list of possibles.

I love the Ryder Cup - including all the hype. I book the Friday off work, and record the whole lot too. Have been known to book the Thursday afternoon off so that I can watch the opening ceremony too.

Mary wrote:Good call with that list Myst....

I would add Manassero to the list of possibles.

I love the Ryder Cup - including all the hype. I book the Friday off work, and record the whole lot too. Have been known to book the Thursday afternoon off so that I can watch the opening ceremony too.

I think the opening/closing ceromonys are crap

mystiroakey wrote:my guess for europe

donald
poulter
casey
rose
westwood
mcilroy

the above are deffos in my opinion(cant see casey leaving anything to chance this time and he will play on the euro tour almost exclusively to get in)

Rose has been poor this year and Casey even worse. How can you possibly have them in this list and Kaymer and McDowell in a secondary list?

No1yankee wrote:

I think the opening/closing ceromonys are crap

Care to expand on that, it is not like they are over the top like the olympics or world cup?

Redrage wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:my guess for europe

donald
poulter
casey
rose
westwood
mcilroy

the above are deffos in my opinion(cant see casey leaving anything to chance this time and he will play on the euro tour almost exclusively to get in)

Rose has been poor this year and Casey even worse. How can you possibly have them in this list and Kaymer and McDowell in a secondary list?

erm nope i wouldnt actually say that at all.

rose has had some pretty good form recently, casey has been injured- yet has made statements that he will be concentrating on the european tour exculsivelly to not miss out- i fully nelieve him- he played pretty well the other day almost held out in a tourny.

both yes have been abit sketchy but rose had a good win the other week(a very good win in the start of the fed x i think) and as long as casey can sort his injury out then all good

kaymer and mcdowel have been well out of touch in contrast(OF LATE) and i believe will be splitting there time on tours i put them in the secondary list- although i do beliueve they could make it on merit and if they dont deserve to be picked as WC's

There has to be a Swede in the Euro team...? There always is!!!

Think there's a shout for the likes of Bjorn again [ho ho - tired joke, but still amuses me], Noren, and there are signs that Stenson might be recovering from his golfing amnesia.

Odd coincidence that this thread has been started now, arguably prematurely - I was just musing last week (as Donald went into overdrive) on who might act as on-course generals this time round. Can imagine Donald / Westwood being sent out in the first match, but then who would lead the singles? I'd say Luke has a few points in his favour, irrespective of world ranking at the time - unbelievable team golf record, and it'll pretty much be home soil for him.

i think poults is the man to lead out in match play sky

Rose had a good win a couple of months back but hasn't followed it up and if you took that win out of the picture it would have been a very unremarkable season. 1 win and 5 top 10s from 22 events, it's not Ryder Cup shoe in form imo. I am not saying he isn't good enough, but for me a deffo's list can't exclude two recent major champions in favour of two guys who are in patchy (form at best). I should also have included Poulter too, he hasn't looked himself all year and has a lot to find to play his way in, you'd figure he'd get a WC though.

red the two MC you mention have been in more patchy form. however i think i was wrong about kaymer splitting his time i think he will be on the euro mostly next year. and as i said will get the wild cards- but only if the top players in my original list (minus the two you mention) dont get in on merit- anyway i fully expect all the top 8 plus garcia on my next list to get in.

Love the RC.Always have and always will.

Possible Europe Team

Donald
Westwood
Garcia
Poulter
Kaymer
Mcilroy
Dyson
Manassero
Rose
Tom Lewis
P Hanson
Noren

US team

Mickelson
D Johnson
K Bradley
Mahan
Haas
Watney
B Watson
Stricker
Furyk
Fowler
Woodland
Webb Simpson

good call on hass, had a mind blank on him for abit

Skydriver wrote:There has to be a Swede in the Euro team...? There always is!!!

Think there's a shout for the likes of Bjorn...

Thomas Bjorn, also known as "The Great Swede"... DOH!!! Not the first time I've made that mistake (I blame the tennis player), but doing so in public is often a good way to prevent errors happening again. Wish that also applied to my golf...

With apologies to any Danish or Swedish members of the audience!

McLaren wrote:

No1yankee wrote:

I think the opening/closing ceromonys are crap

Care to expand on that, it is not like they are over the top like the olympics or world cup?

Opening/closing ceromonys aren't my thing

Kaymer's form hasn't been great this year but still miles better than Rose's or Casey's... good win at the start of the year, runner up at the WGC and Switzerland, third in the European Matchplay, fourth in France and a couple of other top tens....

Donald, Westwood and McIlroy are probably the only absolute certainties for me. Poulter and Kaymer are near-definites just because you couldn't leave them out, and provided his form doesn't vanish again so is Garcia. Don't think McDowell is in yet, but I expect him to have a good year next year, I've said before that he tends to have one good season, followed by one bad one. Of the remaining 5... wouldn't say Rose or Casey are certainties yet, they need half-decent years or they'll get overtaken by Euro based players who have a blinder of a season, like Hanson and Eddie Molinari last time. But in order of likelihood, I'd probably go:

1. Jimenez
2. Rose
3. Bjorn
4. Karlsson
5. Casey
6. A Hansen
7. Quiros
8. Noren

Probably missed someone though...

NedB-H wrote: wouldn't say Rose or Casey are certainties yet, they need half-decent years or they'll get overtaken by Euro based players who have a blinder of a season, like Hanson and Eddie Molinari last time.

Exactly, it happens every qualification. Guys who are in form keep a few big names out of the automatic spots. With that in mind, Casey and Rose have a lot to do. Harrington hasn't had much of a mention, he looks to be recapturing some form and that for me is where I just don't see it for Casey... he has a lot of work to do. I am glad to hear he is focusing on the ET, he doesn't win enough in the states to do his chances any good.

Too early for me to guess, but would suggest only Noren and Dyson of those who haven't played Ryder Cup is having a good enough year to be considered. Disappointing years for Matteo and Quiros.
First two picks on my European Team would be Donald and Garcia, followed by Rory.

As for the Americans, I wouldn't expect their Team to differ very much from the Presidents Cup squad, but seriously doubt they'd make Woods a Captain's Choice unless he bucks up his form. Expect Zach Johnson to have a good year.

You have to have Donald, Westwood, Garcia and Poulter as pretty much certainties to be in the team. That's an incredible backbone of Ryder Cup pedigree to have in your team.

Not too bothered at all if Rose or Casey don't make it. Steady players like Karlsson and Jiminez could possibly feature while I wouldn't rule out a return to form by Stenson at some point.
Very impressed by Noren so far.

I expect America to have a Bible Thumpers XII. They'll need some divine intervention.

kwinigolfer wrote:Too early for me to guess, but would suggest only Noren and Dyson of those who haven't played Ryder Cup is having a good enough year to be considered. Disappointing years for Matteo and Quiros.

Harsh on Anders Hansen there... Peter and Soren have had (brief) RC careers, Anders yet to make his debut though.

Harsh on Hansen agreed, but I'd like to see him win something.
He's had some good weeks, but has come up short a couple of times I've seen him. Missed some tiddlers to allow Kuchar to escape with a MatchPlay win at the WGC, looked as if he wanted to hide when contesting the Wales Open with Noren.
Avoided the US Open, but obviously had great weeks at Doral and Atlanta.
Wish he'd win though, and he hasn't done that for almost three years.

super_realist wrote:You have to have Donald, Westwood, Garcia and Poulter as pretty much certainties to be in the team. That's an incredible backbone of Ryder Cup pedigree to have in your team.

If those 4 are in the team and playing their best, with the strength in Europe right now you could have pretty much any 8 from about 30 guys and still put out a team capable of winning abroad.
There are the 3 Italians, a bus full of Spaniards, Bjorn, 3 or 4 Swedes, Kaymer......and that's before you even look at the GB&I players.

Formidable stuff indeed.

Marcus wrote:I used to like it, but over the years my opinion on it has changed.

It's a combination of things that have caused my views to change. It gets far too much exposure on Sky, and it drives me NUTS when Montgomerie refers back to his time as captain when answering any golf related question. (btw, I have some amazing info on Monty, but it's top top secret). Also, when Sky Sports News flash up one of their "489 days until the ryder cup" banners, it makes me want to throw things at the TV.

You can be in the middle of a major, playing the 17th hole on a Sunday, and you can bet with complete certainty that either useless Bruce Crotchless or even more useless Ewen Murray will comment on Ryder Cup points.

Then there's the match itself. I view golf as an individual sport. I hate playing foresomes or fourballs, and will only ever do so under protest. Then there's who we're actually supporting. I am patriotic, but I honestly can't be bothered to support a European side. If it was still GB&I, then great, but it's not.

Then there's the players. Europe take it far too seriously, with some players placing more emphasis on getting in the RC team than actually winning a major, yet the Americans seemingly only go through the motions, much preferring the President's Cup.


:puts on tin hat:

You weren't (by any chance) an only child Marcus?

I think it's far to early to make any calls on the RC 2012 teams. This year does seem to promise to be a very tight and exciting year for qualification and is most likely to be the most contested place for spots. What with the resurgence of Bjorn and Sergio now firing on nearly all cyclinders.

I've mentioned Noren before as a potential and it seems others are now noticing him , but then 2 ET wins this year and some other sparkling finishes will do that.

Many are stating how Kaymer is a shoe in! I would question that logic. This year his form has been since getting beaten by Donald in the Accenture at best woeful, and the next point being what did he actually do that was so good for the team in the last RC which was a surprise considering the season he had. If he carries on this form he'll not accumulate enough points to warrent a pick let alone automatic spot.

Then there's Mcdowell his form is even worse, and so what he holed the winning putt last time but this is the RC and no sentiment should be shown when picking the best team to beat the opposing 12 players. If he doesn't make an automatic spot which is doubtful unless theres a serious change in form then I don't think he should be on the plane to Medinah.

Based on current form the team i'd like to see is this but will be far from who makes the plane.

Donald
Westwood
Poulter
Noren
Garcia
Bjorn
Manassero
McIlroy
Dyson
F Molinari
Ramsey
Lewis

Lewis and Ramsey would be my wildcards, as they both have outstanding records in amateur matchplay events, and canlook to build on a positive end to this year by coming on strong next year

Way way way too early to call, a LOT can happen between now and next August. Even if a lot does happen I can't see the following NOT making it (barring injury of course)

Donald
Westwood
McIlroy
Garcia

The next lot should be certainties but I wouldn't bet the house on it

Kaymer
McDowell
Poulter (if he doesn't make it on merit he'd be a captains pick unless his form absolutely plummets)

Then there's the immense scrap for the remaining 5 places

Bjorn
Karlsson
Jiminez
Fisher
Casey
Rose
Hanson
Hansen
Molinari F
Molinari E
Harrington


Possible rookies
Quiros
Laird
Dyson
Noren
Manassero
Ramsay
Lewis


Quite honestly we could have an A and a B team. To me there's far too many there to NOT leave Olly with an incredibly difficult Captains pick situation.

The yanks? Probably

Stricker
Johnson D
Kuchar
Simpson
Mickelson
Watney
Watson
Mahan
Bradley

Contesting the picks?
Furyk
Toms
Snedeker
Crane
Woods

Would quite like to see Garrigus (based on his lunatic insular comments last week) given a pick and drawn to play Donald in the singles

Woods, I'd prefer he wasn't there, I think (despite his past RC record he'd be strangely more dangerous in matchplay now - as he showed in last years singles). If he has a real stinker to the first half of the year or another injury, he may even be gone, i.e. retired by next September.

i think people going in with a certainy on garcia are pushing it a little.

Id put money on him making it for sure(but i reakon the odds would have shrunk so on reflection probally not), and all he has to do is continue this form, but he is no certainty, we are talking about less than 10 days of form with the putter- thats all guys!

A fair point Oakey, but Ryder Cup teams are often defined by players who may not be in great form, or have even won many tournaments in the months preceding the event, but players like Monty, Clarke, Garcia, Poulter etc have been unbelievable in RC's of the past despite their patchy strokeplay form at the time. Should Poulter and Garcia fail to qualify automatically I can think of no more suitable wildcards than them.

I think that there is a slight issue with people thinking that having a good strokeplay career means you will automatically be good in the Ryder Cup. Who can argue with Harrington's Majors, but it hasn't made him a great Ryder Cup player.

Marcus wrote:Unfortunately, the Ryder Cup doesn't interest me in the slightest.

That's a shame Marcus.

I agree the hype and media spoil it to a certain extent, but that wouldn't stop me enjoying one of the best sporting events of the game I love.

Mystiroakey, this whole thread is about complete and utter speculation. In a sense we're all taking stabs in the dark. We don't even know for sure that Donald's form won't completely flip round and go off the boil for 9 months.

With Garcia, you are right in that he is having a golden streak with his putter at the moment and yes, both tournaments have been on courses he knows very well. His putting has always held him back but if he's found a method that works for him (and it looks like he has) then he's going right back to very near the top of the game. More importantly I think he knows he's sorted something, he's playing with a smile on his face. Time will tell of course.

I think poults has proved his worth in match play, even in the seve trophy the other month he turned into the match play beast v molinari- 2 down 4 to play and he just woke up with a glint in his eye- he is the only player that i would pick based on match play form. i would also pick casey based on his match play records and offcourse donald but i think we can all agree there is less than zero of chance of him not making it on merit at presnt.

I feel as though faldo picked the right wild cards in poults and casey, but monty got it seriously wrong(in harrington and who was it), but offcourse as we know picking the WC's isnt the be all and end all as we know in hindsight.

If form goes to plan next year and we get the top 8 ranked europeans in on merit and garcia and poulter dont ,but retain half decent form- they would be my wild cards for sure and both above kaymer and mcdowel(if they dont get in) but not above donald and westwood- jeas dose that make sense!

"Mystiroakey, this whole thread is about complete and utter speculation"

i know lol.

but we have all picked a certain amount of definites- i have picked two definites in rose and casey that i am sure not many else will agree upon, yet i dont agree that garcia is a definite

Does anyone know when the ticket ballot closes?

Mysti,
Garcia has had a pretty good season; not many top fives, but top tens at RStG and Congressional and very solid finishes almost all year long.
With his history at Medinah and his friendship with Olazabal, there's almost nothing that will come between Sergio and as place on the Team.

Maverick wrote:
Many are stating how Kaymer is a shoe in! I would question that logic. This year his form has been since getting beaten by Donald in the Accenture at best woeful, and the next point being what did he actually do that was so good for the team in the last RC which was a surprise considering the season he had. If he carries on this form he'll not accumulate enough points to warrent a pick let alone automatic spot.

Hardly "woeful" Mav, made 12 of 15 cuts in strokeplay events, and second in Switzerland, 3rd in our matchplay, 4th in France, top tens in Malaysia and Portugal as well and top 20s in the BMW and the Open. Certainly not up to last year's standards, but plenty of guys would kill for that form. And yeah I agree he had a pretty forgettable debut last time, but 2nd and 3rd in the two matchplay events this year suggests he at least knows how to play the format.

Not sure what Lewis's great amateur matchplay record is? Didn't even have a great Walker Cup to be honest.

mystiroakey wrote:i think people going in with a certainy on garcia are pushing it a little.

Id put money on him making it for sure(but i reakon the odds would have shrunk so on reflection probally not), and all he has to do is continue this form, but he is no certainty, we are talking about less than 10 days of form with the putter- thats all guys!

Sorry but thats a nonsence. Hes openly admitted hes putted better since the US Open and thats been shown in his results. 20 putts in the BMW in the fed ex shows its not just been the last ten days. Garcia will be there next year thats a fact. Even with his better form but after being there as a vice captain last time he will be extremely motivated to play this time as hes certainly good enough.

Sand wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:i think people going in with a certainy on garcia are pushing it a little.

Id put money on him making it for sure(but i reakon the odds would have shrunk so on reflection probally not), and all he has to do is continue this form, but he is no certainty, we are talking about less than 10 days of form with the putter- thats all guys!

Sorry but thats a nonsence. Hes openly admitted hes putted better since the US Open and thats been shown in his results. 20 putts in the BMW in the fed ex shows its not just been the last ten days. Garcia will be there next year thats a fact. Even with his better form but after being there as a vice captain last time he will be extremely motivated to play this time as hes certainly good enough.

personally i think your talking nonsense pal. as i said id back him to get on the team- but his is no certainty in my eyes- you can call him one if you will- but i will disagree. he has been putting better and better in recent times thats obvious but it has only got to been GOOD in the last montrh or so.yes he has one very random week when he had a 20 putt round, but any pro can have the odd magic round with a puttrer- i have had 19 in a round at hindhead- i missed 14 greens in reg and holed 2 chips- trust me i am not of a pro standard, but occasionally i can be.

so for your sake lets say he has been putting well for a month then

anyway the main point is , i will not put garcia in the same league as the definites of westy,donald or mcilroy. and its that straigtforward, and will argue anyone that does-its like comparing rump to fillet steaks, garcia needs to really consoldiate this form over more than two weeks

mysti,
I think you need to consult Sergio's results this season and reassess your views before you start getting too personal. His putting is always going to come and go, but can be inspirational.
Not many golfers had top 12's in at least three Majors PLUS The Players, he lost a play-off in Germany, more top tens in Qatar and Bay Hill; and ninth in owgr points among Europeans this year coming into Valderrama.

In fact, owgr poiints for Europeans are instructional. 2011 year to date:
Donald
McIlroy
Westwood
Kaymer
Rose
Bjorn
Hansen
Dyson
Garcia
With a second place this week, almost assured I'd think, he'll move ahead of Hansen and Dyson at least, with a win he'll be up to 5th.

Sergio is a cert!

mystiroakey wrote:anyway the main point is , i will not put garcia in the same league as the definites of westy,donald or mcilroy. and its that straigtforward, and will argue anyone that does-its like comparing rump to fillet steaks, garcia needs to really consoldiate this form over more than two weeks

I'd agree with that, but I would add Kaymer to that list. He is 4th in the R2D without hitting the form of 2010, we expect a bit more from him but he is still one of the best week in week out as that Statistic clearly shows. I also think that Garcia will be in the next level down with the likes of Poulter. They have extremely good RC records and would almost certainly get a WC. Garcia has never been a good putter but routinely made RC teams on merit. If he wins today he'll have two wins to his credit already and entry to WGCs etc, he might not win again but he'll keep racking up the top 10s and top 5s with his ball striking. He'll be very hard to dislodge. Like JAS said, we could put out an A and B side with a chance of competing. There will be some very good players missing out, sad for them... but great for Olly.

I'd be very surprised if Garcia didn't make it, but not as surprised as I would be if Donald, Westwood, McIlroy or Kaymer didn't. Aside from those five, I think its wide open, though I think that unless he is in disastrous form, Poulter would get a CP if he didn't make it on merit.

Before recently I'd also have backed McDowell, but his form hasn't been great, and he's shot two 80s on the same course that he won last year. Who knows, he may get his mojo back, and would be a strong candidate for a CP, largely because he has shown he can make crucial putts under pressure, very important for a Ryder Cup.

Be interesting to see who Olly would pair McIlroy with if McDowell isn't there. I think he'd be good with Sergio, they seemed to have a good rapport when they played together in the final round at the Open this year, and I think that would be a pretty intimidating pairing for any American pair to go up against.

delToro87 wrote:

Be interesting to see who Olly would pair McIlroy with if McDowell isn't there. I think he'd be good with Sergio, they seemed to have a good rapport when they played together in the final round at the Open this year, and I think that would be a pretty intimidating pairing for any American pair to go up against.

They would be a fantastic 4balls pairing, I'd prefer at least one of my foursomes players to be able to putt well... Donald and Garcia would be more like it, Poults and McIlroy.

red i think thats a good balancing act for sure.

in 4 balls garcia could take the majority of 3's and rock on- garantee point.

but then there allways a case for pairing 'mates' or putting your best/experienced with weaker/less experienced

Yeah you would put Poults and Rose together if they were both there, they have a good record too. So do Donald and Garcia. I think the 4 balls should blood the newbs and vets are good pairings alongside them, the 4somes have to be the right pairings though and I would want to see good balance. I think it would love to be a RC captain or VC (may as well want to visit the rings of Saturn) but I would relish the tactical battle. I think anyone would and that is why these threads always get a lot of debate.