Ryder Cup Debuts?

I know, a long time off yet but I thought it would be interesting to see who you think could make the team on their current form, then look back when the team is decided.

So, with qualifying set to start this week in Crans, who do you think has an outside chance of making the team for the first time?

Chances of a Debut?
Manassero
Laird
Jacobson
Dyson
Noren
Larrazabal

I think there are 4 nailed on certs for the team, unsurprisingly perhaps:
McIlroy
Westwood
Donald
Kaymer

I don't know, but for some reason I think qualifying for this team could be wide open.

am i right in saying players are selected from Euro Tour before world points this time around? will play into the hands of Rose/Poulter/Harrington/Laird etc.
with a decent run Brian Davis and Carl Petterson could be in with a shout

Actually Goldie I think this is a very good time to post this, seeing as it's this week that the accumulation of Ryder Cup points commences and we start seeing who will be the automatics from the World & European Lists and who gets a captains pick.

Laird surely will have to qulaify by either World list or Captains pick can't see him playing enough Euro events to gain automatic spot from Euro list.

I think Mannasero, Noren and Larrazbal are a great shout for RC Rookies their improving all the time and Noren seems formidable when he gets the chance. One i'd like to see is Richie Ramsey if he can pick up his regular tour form, as he is a good matchplayer and former US Am champion.

Other notables to look out for in 2 years time Thorbjorn Oleson. Olly Fisher now seems to be finding his feet on tour and what about Anders Hansen or a return for Robert Karlsson


For Kaymer to be a dead cert i'd think he has to pick his game up this year or could be reliant on a captains pick.

I'd be surprised the way their games are right now if McDowell of Casey make the team same goes for Ed Molinari.

I'd reckon Dyson will be there as a rookie

Yep, right now I can see Dyson and Manassero making the team. The way the are playing McDowell and Harrington may be waiting for a phone call!

Can't see Davis or Petterson to be honest, I think they'll need to win, and not just once either.

I think people are getting a bit overexcited with some of the names here. It's hard to make the team without being in the top 50 because so many points are available at the majors and WGCs. For Larrazabal and Noren to make it they'd need to kick on and have even better seasons than this year, and I don't think they're there yet. Olly Fisher? He's had one good week all year, against an average field, he won't be there.

I'd say by far the most likely debutants are Manassero and Anders Hansen. Nailed on to be there? Donald, Westwood and McIlroy are certs, Kaymer more or less is, despite everyone saying he's had a poor season he's still had a win, a WGC runners-up, three more ET top tens and a 12th in the Open. I'd expect Karlsson to be there too. So that leaves 5 spots... they're not out of reach of guys like Dyson, but it'll take poor seasons by the likes of Poulter not to get one of those 5. I think McDowell will be there, he generally has one good season in two.

Definitely Manessero.

Possibles:-

Dyson
Wood
A Hansen
Noren
Rhys Davies

Young Matteo is a good shout for next year. Very competent player. We'll hopefully see Sergio back as well right?

As far as the 'nailed on' picks go I'd throw Poulter's name into the mix. The guy is a Ryder Cup animal. Olly would be a brave man to leave him out.

I think people are getting a bit overexcited with some of the names here. It's hard to make the team without being in the top 50 because so many points are available at the majors and WGCs. For Larrazabal and Noren to make it they'd need to kick on and have even better seasons than this year, and I don't think they're there yet. Olly Fisher? He's had one good week all year, against an average field, he won't be there.

Olly fisher that'd be 2 good weeks, but the point of mentioning him is it can happen, e.g Ed Molinari, had a good 9 months and got a captains pick, Peter Hanson went on a run of aout 6 consistent months and made it so Olly Fisher if he can build over the next 2 years can make it. Same with Noren he has 2 wins this year and good performances in 2 majors so can kick on and make T50 easily the RC is not a closed shop as some players are on their way down others are on their way up and can qualify over 2 years

We should have a baseline for this or we'll forget someone! 14 (12 + Casey and Rose to all intents and purposes) last time:
Kaymer, Westwood, Donald and McIlroy plus:
2 x Molinari
Hanson
Jimenez
McDowell
Fisher
Harrington
Poulter
Casey
Rose


All those not mentioned by goldwolf have had poor seasons and there must be a risk that one or two won't fulfil European Tour appearance criteria. Agree with Ned about Top 50 owgr, and that makes Hanson, Harrington, Ross Fisher, Eddie Molinari all marginal.

J-M O would understandably want a Spaniard in the Works, or two: Garcia, Jimenez (VC candidate also?), Quiros, Larrazabal.

If the RC were tomorrow, I'd pick Kaymer, Donald, Westwood, McIlroy, Karlsson, Manassero, Bjorn, Noren, Garcia, FMolinari, Poulter and Rose. McDowell, Laird, Hansen and Dyson would all miss out, plus Hanson, Eddie Molinari, Harrington, Casey and Fish.

Remember, Rose is not currently an ET Member, nor is Pettersson and I'd doubt Jacobson and Davis are either.

If Poulter continues his form of this year, he will need a C's pick to get in, and will almost certainly get one given his record!

Oli Fisher - one good week all year, more like one good week...... ever!

I think noticable absentees maybe will come in the form of Casey, McDowell, Rose,

Fisher is terrible. He's had one good week in his entire career so hopefully he'll be nowhere near the team. However his one career win is still more than fowler and fatty overton combined so maybe he's not as bad as I think.

Awww Miguel is a great shout. I'd completely forgotten he was still playing well. Won against Bubba last October. Still looking fit. Couple of decent performances next season and I'd have no problem with him repaying it for Europe.

Which would be his second good week? Apart from the win he's made three cuts all year with a best finish of 35th. I don't see how you can compare him with Molinari, who the year before the RC was taking the Challenge Tour by storm and looking miles better than everyone else he was competing against. I'll say it again, Fisher won't be there.

Hanson/Noren is a better comparison, it is possible for consistent tour players to have a good run at the right time, which someone like Dyson or Noren could do, but so could a dozen or so other guys, and it's unlikely that more than one of them will make the team. I'd say Hanson's more likely to make it again than Noren, in fact.

WillyGilly- I think if Sergio keeps showing the same form/imporevement he did this year he will be on the team, either through qualification or if he just misses out but is playing well I think Olly will pick him, not just coz he is a compatriot but he knows close hand what Garcia can do in a Ryder Cup, in terms of experience and inspiriring those around him. Quite likely that there may be less experience on this team than in previous years (McDowell, Casey, Poulter etc. look like they will struggle).
Very early days to see which rookies might make it but I wouldn't be surprised if Mannesero and Larrazabal made it.

I'm not advocating Fisher should be in the team just stating someone like him could have a streak like Ed Molinari and get in, then do an Ed Molinari and then fade away after.

Personally I couldn't careless if he was there or who is there as long as Europe Win. Molinari had basically 2 good seasons which got him in I was merely using fisher as someone who could do the same, but so could any other player on the ET that is similarly obscure to us as fans right now.

I'd like to see Noren make it as I think he has a great future in the game but will I be sad if he's not there no because as I say not bothered about who plays as long as Olazabals merry few win.

Can't see MAJ making it this time around I think the likely spaniards to make it will be Quiros and Garcia. If I were picking the team right now it'd be something along the lines of.(baring in mind i'm picking this not basing it on world/euro/points lists is my own 12 picks)

Donald
Westwood
Poulter
Garcia
Quiros
Anders Hansen
Robert Karlsson
Matteo Mannasero
Francesco Molinari
Alex Noren
kaymer
McIlroy

kwinigolfer wrote:Remember, Rose is not currently an ET Member, nor is Pettersson and I'd doubt Jacobson and Davis are either.

I think Rose is currently an ET member (he is available for selection in the ET fantasy team), but the other three are not...

pd,
I thought Rose relinquished his membership last year so that he would not be penalised for not playing the requisite tournaments (caused by him not getting into majors and WGC's)?
If he's allowed to hop in and out of Tour membership with impunity it makes a bit of a mockery of the 13-event criteria, surely?
Who does he think he is? Tiger??

Does this not depend on who chooses to focus on the PGA tour?

Last time out the likes of Rose who do not accumulate European points were not as likely to qualify because the world list was given priority. As the top 5 world list was basically the top 5 European list, it meant that to fill the places from the European list those in positions 6-10 had more chance of getting selected. This time the first places to get filled are from the European list. So if the top 5 world and European list are similar those 6-10 in the world list have a better chance of getting a place.

I would say that maybe favours players like Rose and Casey over the likes of Dyson and Matteo who may be high on the European list and relatively lower on the world list. Hopefully a stronger European tour means those without transatlantic schedules still have a chance.

See Rose has been hand picked by Poulter to play alongside him at this years golf world cup

Monty? Not a debutant obviously but could he make it with a concerted effort?

super_realist wrote:Monty? Not a debutant obviously but could he make it with a concerted effort?

That was my point re:Fisher no matter who the player they have 2 years to make the tema so with a concerted effort and a good couple years anyone can make it

What are the chances that there will be a 4th Italian in the frame - Signor Gagli? Don't know anything about him really, but the viewpoint from my sofa is that it seems he has appeared from nowhere recently in an attempt to join the Renaissance Movement headed by the 3 M's.

Maverick wrote:

super_realist wrote:Monty? Not a debutant obviously but could he make it with a concerted effort?

That was my point re:Fisher no matter who the player they have 2 years to make the tema so with a concerted effort and a good couple years anyone can make it

I see what you mean Mav, I just think most people would believe that as Fisher has almost no form whatsoever in his entire career and has struggled to hold onto his card almost every year of his overhyped and unfulfilled career, the chances of going on a run capable of qualifying him for the Ryder Cup seems fairly remote. I would categorise Fisher as sub-journeyman standard.

ST I agree totally with what has happened to Fisher in his career and often wondered why he was given so much hype for someone who does so little, my point was purely of that anyone that does an Ed Molinari by having 2 good seasons can make it, seems most people skirted over my point and focused on Fisher the player and not the point I was making.

You can say the same for the US team to, there could be one of many guys playing nationwide right now that could make the RC team with a good finish to this year and good year next year

Of course anyone could make it, however certain players have more chance than others, and I think Fisher falls squarely into the "others" bracket, but I agree with your original hypothesis.

If current form is anything to go by the lists could look a little like this;


World

Donald
Westwood
McIlroy
Kaymer
Sergio
Laird
Casey
Manassero
Hansen
F.Molinari


European

Donald
Mcilroy
Westwood
Kaymer
Hansen
Noren
Dyson
Quiros
Manassero
Karlsson

Meaning the ten would be

Donald
Mcilroy
Westwood
Kaymer
Hansen
Sergio
Laird
Casey
Manassero
Molinari


You can see that a player like Laird who would not have made it last time now makes it. It is also clear that someone like Hansen could fall only one place on the European list and miss out despite almost making both lists. If the lists are quite similar I think it is clear that the world list is slightly favoured.

Maverick wrote:
That was my point re:Fisher no matter who the player they have 2 years to make the tema so with a concerted effort and a good couple years anyone can make it

It is only one year for qualifying
"(1) The Ryder Cup European Points List will comprise points (1 point = 1 Euro) earned by a European Tour Member from all officially sanctioned European Tour tournaments on The European Tour Race to Dubai from September 1, 2011 until the conclusion of the Johnnie Walker Championship at Gleneagles in 2012.

(2) The Ryder Cup World Points List will comprise World Ranking Points won by a European Tour Member from each tournament in which he participates from September 1, 2011 until the conclusion of the Johnnie Walker Championship at Gleneagles in 2012. World Ranking Points are allocated to all officially sanctioned tournaments (on any Federated Tour) by the Official World Golf Ranking and are allocated according to the Event Rating of the tournament."

I wonder what position you would need to finnish on a tour like the Japense order of merit to qualify on the world list.

Princedrac, we might need you on this one. We need to see how many OWGR points the japanest OOM winner has in the last 12 months.

Something I've always wondered is what is considered Europe regards the team (ie. what nationalities are eligible). Is is the EC, which is bad news for the Swiss and the Norwegians, or is it geographical. What about Russian players and if you were Turkish is dependant on what side of the river you are born?

Mac, "current form": Bjorn has 3 wins in a year, and he's not on your list?

With the inflation in "ET life time memeberships", why not make Carl P, Rose, Jacobson, Laird, Davis etc. ET "life time members"? We could justify it with their "services to European golf abroad" or something like that? Then we'll have a broader field to choose from.

ryan86 wrote:Something I've always wondered is what is considered Europe regards the team (ie. what nationalities are eligible). Is is the EC, which is bad news for the Swiss and the Norwegians, or is it geographical. What about Russian players and if you were Turkish is dependant on what side of the river you are born?

Yup, and surely the Brits are not European either. (according to some posters at least)

Ryan, pretty sure it's continental, rather than Geopolitical. There's a couple of good Norwegians about, though probably not god enough to qualify.

Some interesting names mentioned, we could probably make 2 or 3 really stong teams with a mix of experience and debutants!

I see Chris Wood mentioned, he's been pretty dissapointing this season but has the potential to make the team. On the other hand, no-one has mentioned David Horsey as a potential debut - 2 wins in just over a year.

McLaren wrote:Princedrac, we might need you on this one. We need to see how many OWGR points the japanest OOM winner has in the last 12 months.

Not quite sure where this is going, but there it is...
Fujita-san was OoM winner in 2010 on the JP Tour - he earned 131.08 owgr pts within 2010... but has only 102.54 in the past 12 months...

Would hope that Darren Clarke can make the team again, as you cannot buy the experience that him or Monty could give the team.

Prince

Just wondering if the Japanese tour is another possible route to qualify.

By the look of it you need about 200 OWGR points to get on the team, meaning even a Japan OOM is not enough. Unless of course you can play some WGC's and Majors as well to suppliment this.

McLaren wrote:Unless of course you can play some WGC's and Majors as well to suppliment this.

Exactly, take for example Mr. KtK earned 209.23 pts within the last 12 months... He plays regularly on both JP and Korean Tours, plus majors,WGCs and... Greensboro.

Prince

Well maybe the likes of casey should think about a year in asia?

KtK recent performances have been superb and has shown what he is about, after an initial poor start to US events he has come on leaps and bounds an im suitably impressed. Didn't Ander Hansen disappear to the JP tour for a while and now he's back much improved or was that the sunshine tour I get confused

Anders Hansen tried the PGA Tour for a year, 2007?, but he got injured and lost his place in the "reshuffling", don't think he got into as many events as he'd hoped - which is a problem all but the top players face. I'm sure he'd think he was a bit unlucky - me too.
Plus, he took Sunshine Tour membership for a year or two but not sure which was the chicken and which was the egg. Either way he won an event down there and perhaps their OOM and parlayed that into WGC's from which he eventually springboarded into better form and top 50 owgr.

thanks kwini I knew he'd played one of the other tours and won and OOM which helped regain current position. Good on him finding a way back into get confidence. Todd hamilton played the asian tours for years as well didnt' he

Mav, KtK has been very impressive indeed, no question. As for Hansen, as kwini pointed out he played on the Sunshine tour, and I think he may have won actually two tournaments there that year, not sure...

Mac, why not, guys like Casey and Tiger could both switch to Asia for a year or so... Some specialist accupuncture sessions for their toes and feet could do them good. Plus Tiger is a Buddhist and has half-Asian roots anyway... But Casey can always try to play one year in Europe before he tries Asia...

Mav,
Hamilton played the Asian or Japanese Tour a number of years with great success before finally winning his PGA Tour card. Brian Watts went the same route and might have qualified for The Open that he lost in a play-off to O'Meara via Asia. Brandt Jobe is another who prospered over there, as has Aussie Brandan Jones who has conspicuous lack of success here, but does well in Japan.

Kwini - Hansen did try his luck on the US tour in 2007 and didn't quite earn enough to retain his card. He did manage to win the PGA on the ET in the same year and did play in 22 ET events in 2008 and finished in the top 50 of the OOM. He did supplement that with some sunshine tour events which he did again in 2009 and won the Joburg open in January which is co-sanctioned with the ET before winning again a month later on the sunshine tour which helped him clinch the OOM title. Funny career winning one of the biggest tournaments in European golf twice, but not much else. Maybe he has his best years ahead of him.

Think we might be overplaying Hansen's lull a bit, he won the Sunshine OoM in 2009, and he finished 24 in the R2D that year too, in fact he hasn't been outside the top 60 since 1999... it's hardly as though he lost his card for a couple of years.

Not unusual for the Europeans and Americans to go to Asia when they're starting off and can't crack the big tours, Hamilton and Watts for a start, Dyson I think did the same, possibly Micheel too. More unusual for people to head there to arrest a career in decline, Miles Tunnicliff is one trying that I think though.