Graham Henry Interested in RFU Role.

Heard this story on 5 live driving in to work this morning. There was little detail, and at that point I was wondering whether we really wanted the "Great Redeemer", a man who ultimately misunderstood the who;e ethos of Welsh and British Rugby to disastrous effect.

However I thought that I should do some research first and found a few stories such as this one on the Telegrapg website

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/8850902/New-Zealands-World-Cup-winning-coach-Graham-Henry-offers-his-services-to-England-and-the-RFU.html


Reading the detail it actually looks like it could be a good idea -- IF the RFU can cut the deadwood in their own organisation first. Martyn Thomas and his management board should all go to be replaced by someone like Simon Halliday and a streamlined board.

He's just speculatively chasing the money.

He's a world cup winner and the RFU has a large bank balance.

News to me hes retiring. He hasnt formally announced it yet. Likely though.
Sounds logical. And with england 2015 sounds ominous for the rest of us.
I can see it would be a real challenge for henry and with the obvious resources england have he'd be drooling at the mouth to get control.
The thing about Henry is the structures he puts in place and england would need to embrace change with some form of sacrifice at the club face if he had as much say as hed like. All roads would need to lead to rome (england side).
I just dont see a lot that he could do as a consultant without the willingness to change

Would he really want to go with this though.

He will be 69 by the time 2015 comes around and always seems to me to have the demeanour of a man that just wants to go fishing.

According to Planet rugby,He would be interested in being part of the RFU.
BUT not the England team.it is plain he know`s his own future but is not letting on yet.

Lets stick with MJ eh....but can we all get together and jump him in his neighbourhood....to persuade him to ditch his pals Wells etc, and get some real coaches in....

I think Ted is going to head off to Waiheke Island and lay low for sometime. to day was his first "day off' in three months,I dont think he decided to go to England this morning.

Hes already said he'll be doing something.
After having gained his 'inner peace' after chasing this thing for 8 years he can actually start enjoying something and get his teeth into something.
Whether he'll have the same passion i dont know but hes a pro and has done it all now.
I think having coached both a winning and losing world cup is experience you just can't buy anywhere.
Good move i reckon. Means i could support england as well!

Maybe someone at the rfu can arrange a meeting while he's over here coaching the barbarians.

If someone with his record openly says they would be interested in working in a development role in English rugby then it would be ridiculous not to at least talk to him, especially when we are in such need of new direction.

Whether Martyn Thomas would agree though is less clear.

He didn't misunderstand the ethos of the Lions as badly as SCW though did he????

I hope for their sake the RFU doesn't spend a penny on Henry. I can't help but think it would be merely lining the pockets of a man who's acheived all he wanted to already.

However I am going to contradict myself now that I say I don't think he'd be a bad choice as Lions coach again. He be working at the coalface so to speak, I would hope he learnt a lot from last time and he know's how to beat the ozzies.

Nowhere does he say he's interested in a role with RFU. There is however indication that he will be in talks with the RFU to see what role they can offer and whether he'd like to be a part of that. I'm sure you won't be the only Union chasing him though.

I think Henry's only worth having if it'll be to become head coach, and I'd be surprised if he wanted that role as it's a huge job.

I don't think they should just snap him up and figure out what he'll do later (which would be very RFU).

If he wants the top job, then it should be his (and he should be allowed to select all his own coaches). Otherwise they should let this pass (if indeed it is a genuine opportunity).

Think people have the wrong idea.

What he actually said was now I´m going to get advice from the England RFU on how to celebrate: bungee jumping, dwarf tossing, getting girls to kiss him, jumping off ferries and getting absolutely hammered.

bit of a waste of money in my eyes - never thought he was the great redeemer, he left the wales team in a shambles

Don't know why england are panicking - all they need to do is have more discipline and confidence in their youth.

I'll never understand why MJ chose Flood AND wilkinson, reminds me of wales picking Stephen Jones at centre thinking it gets the ball out quicker for some reason.

TBJ9625 wrote:He didn't misunderstand the ethos of the Lions as badly as SCW though did he????

henry is with out doubt the best coach in the world!! Wales werent physically or mentally prepared to do what he wanted. i'd welcome him with open arms at the ospreys and send our current three packing!!!

I can't see why England would want to have anything to do with him.
No other country is interested in taking NZ's leftover coaches are they?

Saw this in the Grauniad today:

"The New Zealand Rugby Union, which is looking for a successor to Graham Henry as All Blacks coach, has said that Wales's Warren Gatland and Australia's Robbie Deans will not be approached. Around 20 letters have been sent out to leading candidates, but the two New Zealanders were not on the mailing list and the board has ruled out poaching from any other country."

Does that necessarily exclude Gatland tho if he has a release clause in his contract?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Saw this in the Grauniad today:

"The New Zealand Rugby Union, which is looking for a successor to Graham Henry as All Blacks coach, has said that Wales's Warren Gatland and Australia's Robbie Deans will not be approached. Around 20 letters have been sent out to leading candidates, but the two New Zealanders were not on the mailing list and the board has ruled out poaching from any other country."

Does that necessarily exclude Gatland tho if he has a release clause in his contract?

Deans and Gatland both have enemies in positions of influence at the NZRFU

And for Deans, his main ally in the NZRFU Jock Hobbs (Robbie's brother-in-law) is sidelined by leukaemia.

If the stories around his management of the 2001 Lions squad are to be believed, then no thanks....

Well Henson has also backed Henry for England

Link Gavin Henson backs Graham Henry for England role

What more needs to be said!!

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:If the stories around his management of the 2001 Lions squad are to be believed, then no thanks....

All I heard is that his training regime was brutal on that tour, and he didn't give them much time to bond as a group. Matt Dawson and a bunch of egos felt that they knew best, and whined to the media. They preferred the different approach taken by McGeechan on the previous tour.

Personally, I thought the players were out of line, not Henry, but I don't know all the facts.

Very good coach but this is English rugby we are talking about!
you can't polish a turd.

As far as I know, Graham Henry answered a question with : "Yes, I'd talk to the RFU, sure".

That's typical of the cautious, polite Henry we've all heard over the years. It wasn't actually an offer to help the RFU or England. It was Henry hedging his bets by not ruling anything out after winning the world cup.

As for Henry's talk about developing coaches, etc, the man was musing about his possible future in rugby, not specifically English rugby.

Maybe there's some wishful thinking going on.

Henry also said he would only be interested if MJ stays.. IIRC.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Henry also said he would only be interested if MJ stays.. IIRC.

Not really. He just said that, in his opinion, if the RFU are happy that MJ is competent then they should stick with him.

viewtothegym wrote:Very good coach but this is English rugby we are talking about!
you can't polish a turd.

I really don't think England can make any use of him, he is a good coach but that's all he is to be honest. Any time he has played politics he has got burned and I doubt at 65 he really needs to go and work half way across the World to be put under pressure.
It would be best for him to go and work within the Auckland academy system and try and bring through the next generation of players from that area.

Probably agree with that alyn.
GH only works well when he has full control.
At his age he doesnt want to be fighting the cause so to speak and he would definitely clash with the club priorities if engaged in things england team wise such as that gatland continuously moans about. Access to players.
I think for him its about passing knowledge on about the hards lessons learned as a coach.
Having both won and lost a world cup puts him in a unique position in terms of what it takes to face and overcome adversity.

How great a coach is Henry anyway?

Didn't manage a 6N or Triple Crown with Wales, just a 10 match streak at the very beginning of his tenure (mostly against lower ranked teams) ending with a loss to Samoa at the WC, then in his last 6N there was a record loss to Ireland (54-10) and the second worst ever loss to England (50-10).

He failed with the Lions in 2001, miraculously failed to win the WC with the best team in the world (by a stretch) in 2007, and almost lost again this year (smallest winning margin and lowest winning score in a final) despite once more having the best collection of players in the world at his disposal and 8 years to plan.

At the end of the day gelodge its the players who poist the scores. GH also had a 61% record with Wales winning 22 from 36. Since 97 only Mike Ruddock with 13 from 20 has better.

Even our latest great redeemer Gatland has only 51% and it probably wont be until he leaves that he gets called all sorts of names as well.

The one Lions loss was against one of the better Oz sides, World cup champions at the time- and had the last lineout gone right in the 3rd test from memory the series could have been won.

With the ABs he has an 88 win from 103 matches, a phenomenal record in any sense of the word. Hes kept the team at no.1 for nearly his entire tenure and has the world cup and several 3 nations titles.

His value to the NH is not just his successes but as 2007 found, the ability to learn from what went wrong and put things in place to right them. A tough unforgiving process that makes one look at things differently and come up with real solutions. Did it after 2009 as well when SA did us like a dinner that year as well.

His losses with Wales and the Lions give him that opportunity. He will have a very good idea what went wrong up there and even though that might not be relative anymore the ability rather than just opportunity to put key learnings in place is experience few coaches have.

£££££££££ that's the only reason he's interested !!!!

Seriously though GH coached by the book. He tried o turn union into NFL with his play books which never really worked. He would have planned moves 13 phases in, as if the game ever works that way. Deep thinker though.

Taylorman, my niece could probably have coached a team as talented as the ABs to the same win rate.

It didn't really take a genius to recognise and learn from what went wrong in 2007, and in terms of him correcting things to triumph this year, he could have done a considerably more convincing job.

That Mike Ruddock had a similar/better win rate with largely the same group of Welsh players is hardly anything to write home about, 61% isn't that impressive.

And no, I'm not that impressed with Gatland either, he's made numerous errors over the last couple of years and it still remains to be seen if he's forged something great or stumbled onto momentary success with injuries to his first choice players playing a large part.

Well some people will just never be happy then.

If GH and Gatland are poor coaches then who is a good one? And if it doesnt matter who your coach is for an 85% winning team then logic says its the same with a team around 60% the only difference being the number, inferring then that coaches have no value in the overall scheme of things.

And no your niece probably couldnt have done as well. Most ab coaches with more experience than your niece havnt done as well and since Wales Henry you'd at least concede is probably a better coach than when he had Wales.

Henry is undoubtedly a good coach, albeit a graceless one, but then he wouldn't be going to the RFU as a coach?

I didn't say they were poor coaches, just not the messiahs they are made out to be and not worth the millions it would cost for unions to employ them. If Henry was that great he wouldn't have been outperformed by Ruddock (better win rate and a grand slam), and if he was that good at learning his lessons and adapting his team we would have seen a far more convincing display this WC final.

With another 4 years to plan after 2007 his thinking at SH (Cowan should have been abandoned earlier) and some of the back three players (Toeava for instance) was muddled, not to mention an almost deja vu dilemma regarding effective back up for his two most important players, which should have been a core focus. McCaw's backups weren't given enough serious game time, and that Donald was persisted with for years then abandoned almost last minute for FHs with precious few caps is not the planning or foresight of a coaching god.

The bottom line is that Henry should have won in 2007 and scraped what should have been an emphatic win this year.

the 2 top franchises in nz could have won the world cup and some of the players he left out would walk into any other national team so the niece coaching idea might not be so far off. Hansen the No 2 was dreadfull with Wales lets remember. His apparent success looking back was to stumble across a team vs nz when he was actually resting his first 15. Even then after going a try down in first 5 mins the players gathered behind the posts said screw the game plan lets just have a cräck .!

Three Rugby Coaches – Robbie Deans, Martin Johnson and Graham Henry - are invited to heaven watch the World Cup final with God.
God decides who will sit next to him by asking them the same question.

God asks Deans first: "What do you believe?" Deans says, "I believe in hard work and staying true to family, teammates and friends."
God is impressed by Deans and offers him a seat to his left.

God then turns to Johnson and asks, "What do you believe?" Johnson says, "I believe loyalty, discipline, courage and honour are the fundamentals of life."
God is again impressed and offers the Englishman a seat to his right.

Finally, God turns to Henry: "What do you believe?" Henry then says, "I believe you're in my seat."

Taylorman wrote:Three Rugby Coaches – Robbie Deans, Martin Johnson and Graham Henry - are invited to heaven watch the World Cup final with God.
God decides who will sit next to him by asking them the same question.

God asks Deans first: "What do you believe?" Deans says, "I believe in hard work and staying true to family, teammates and friends."
God is impressed by Deans and offers him a seat to his left.

God then turns to Johnson and asks, "What do you believe?" Johnson says, "I believe loyalty, discipline, courage and honour are the fundamentals of life."
God is again impressed and offers the Englishman a seat to his right.

Finally, God turns to Henry: "What do you believe?" Henry then says, "I believe you're in my seat."

To which god replies

Bugger off, I am sick of being TMO at All Black fixtures so i got Joubert to win it for you

ooooh...the pain is strong with this one master...

Taylorman wrote:ooooh...the pain is strong with this one master...

Taylorman, check your fire, check your fire, you've logged into the wrong chatroom

Get back to nzs&mchokers.com where you, and this sort of behaviour, belong

That site expired when McCaw lifted the trophy. Could be found under the link section of the England Six Nation Grand Slam commemorative page possibly

I don`t think Graham Henry was serious,it was a guarded answer to a loaded question .BUT Graham Henry had a 58,5% record with Wales the third highest success rate of any Welsh Coach over a decent period.[Wales Percentage overall is a 50% rate against all comers.
Lions Tour defeat was down to players revolt within the squad on ego trips NOT Graham Henry.
He had a highly successful Coaching period with Auckland ,and the Blues
Took over from Mitchell Deans post 2003 ,after usual player exit built a 87% win record 2004-7 including 3-3Ns titles 2005-7.
Post 2007 he rebuilt the side to the current 84.5% win,2 further 3Ns titles including one 6-0,then the RWC win courtesy of Craig Joubert.
When you consider the players from previous squads,or were unable due to injury that is a considerable success.
Props, Carl Hayman,Greg Somerville [injured,lost form,defected]Hooker ,Anton Oliver,Locks James Ryan [so badly injured never played since] Jason Eaton [lost form],Greg Rawlinson,Chris Jack,Keith Robinson,Ali Williams [for 2 years],Reuben Thorn,Wings Scott Hamilton,Rico Gear,Rudi Wulf,Doug Howlett,Mid field Tuitopu,Luke Mc alister,Aaron Mauger,loose forwards RodneyO`siaolo,Chris Masoe,Jerry Collins,Luaki,Marty Holah,
Fly Halves Dan Carter,Nick Evans,Scrum halve Byron Kelleher, Full Back McDonald.
Thats those I can think of off the top of my head,there were many more ,THAT is a considerable number of players to replace by ANY COACH.
Many of those were among the best in there positions in the world,Tight Head,Hooker,Locks,Blindside Flank,number 8,best no7 [after McCaw],SH,2FH,inside centre ,wing,and full back.
So maybe your granny could put together a better team but I doubt it from scratch.
Martin Johnson incidentally has a 55 .6% win stat,England s Overall stat since 1903 is only 57 % so there isn`t much in it.

What England need is a David Moffat style character to shake upntge RFU. If the WRU had listened to Moffat and whole heartedly followed his plan the Welsh domestic game would be stronger. As it was they fudged it a bit, but it's starting to improve. You can learn from our mistakes. England doesn't need regions, but the Club/Country situation needs resolving.