Wales considered cheating but didn't...! Says Gatland

Fresh leading article on the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15347253.stm

Seeing as we didn't cheat, it's a non-story.

I thought about taking a contract out on Rolland's life. But I didn't.

I thought about shagging Sienna Millar, but I'm out of her league.

Ok at club level but not international level? Good morals Gatland

Reckon that WG was alluding to the spirit of the game .The letter of the law v spirit of the game issue.

I had a text of a friend of mind about 10 minutes after Sam went off and he said that's what we should do.

For me it would have been wrong and I can just imagine the furore if it had happened.

why did he even tell us this lol- does he want praise for not cheating- wtf

So Gatland didn't break both spirit AND letter of the law by faking injury? well done him, he deserves a medal.

And the letter of the law was that the tackle was a penalty offense. I don't think anyone would argue that. The issue is that the IRB have issued guidance on certain sanctions within the law framework.

Funnily enough, if Halfpenny's penalty had gone over you would have won by cheating

i thought about robbing a bank once- but i didnt- can i have some praise please?

HammerofThunor wrote:So Gatland didn't break both spirit AND letter of the law by faking injury? well done him, he deserves a medal.

And the letter of the law was that the tackle was a penalty offense. I don't think anyone would argue that. The issue is that the IRB have issued guidance on certain sanctions within the law framework.

Funnily enough, if Halfpenny's penalty had gone over you would have won by cheating

Slightly stretching things there!Do you seriously believe that Charteris was trying to get a penalty?

Didn't stop Gatland at Wasps!
Why has he taken the moral high ground this time?

Maybe his got his sights on another job in NZ?

Maybe not but Charteris should have been penalised.

Brilliant.

I knew FatGat wouldn't be able to keep his gob shut for the whole tournament.

Incredible, was this his way of having a snipe at the Warburton decision?

Either way, I think he has brought the WRU into disrepute and should be sacked, I can only imagine the furore if Johnson had said a similar thing!

JDandfries wrote:Incredible, was this his way of having a snipe at the Warburton decision?

It certainly looks that way. Just another person that thinks a RWC semi-final should be refereed differently from "less important" matches

I'm surprised he didn't make that decision if he thought he could get away with it. Anyway we still had winning opportunities playing with a man down ? I'd rather he sneaked Neil Jenkins on disguised as Stephen Jones.

What happened to the NZ ethos of anything to win eh Gatt ?

JDandfries wrote:I think he has brought the WRU into disrepute and should be sacked

Eh? For what? Not cheating?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

JDandfries wrote:I think he has brought the WRU into disrepute and should be sacked

Eh? For what? Not cheating?

No for coming out and saying he considered it, why say anything?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

JDandfries wrote:I think he has brought the WRU into disrepute and should be sacked

Eh? For what? Not cheating?

Nah, just for being a twonk. FatGat really needs someone to gag him when he comes up with 'genius' comments like these.

This whole 'moral high ground' thing is starting to wear a little thin.

I'll agree he shouldn't have said anything. I certainly don't think he should be sacked for saying it!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I'll agree he shouldn't have said anything. I certainly don't think he should be sacked for saying it!

Maybe he won't be sacked, but what was he thinking opening his gob? In the current climate, could you imagine the Welsh reaction if Johnson had come out with a similar statement?

I don't think many Welshmen give Martin Johnson much thought.

He only 'considered' it unlike England were they have done it in the past and recently.

16 men on it last WC, ball swapping this.

Wales coach Warren Gatland has admitted he thought about asking one of his forwards to fake an injury during their World Cup semi-final defeat by France.

We had already lost Adam Jones and we discussed in the box: did we fake an injury to one of our props to go to uncontested scrums?

"We could have easily done that in the first 25-30 minutes of the game.

"But in the spirit of the game, in the spirit of a World Cup semi-finals, I didn't think that was the fairest or the right thing to do."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15347253.stm

Obviously the right decision not to cheat, but do you think it is right to even discuss it. What does it say about the game, that cheating is even discussed. And is it right to mention it now.

I think it that is would even be a topic.

Gatland in 'A yellow card would have been sufficient' shocker.

He thought about it , Any coaching team would of considering whats at stake ...
But he didnt cheat .

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maybe not but Charteris should have been penalised.

You cannot blame Charteris for not being penalised,can you?

Gatland in a possibly clumsy and roundabout way is trying to state that there is a duty to all parties in a rugby World Cup semi to the wider audience and the spirit of the game .

Put it another way he can't say that the refs decision was sh**e and that 9 out of 10 officials would have given a yellow card at worse but that this particular jobsworth decided to ruin the game but that is certainly the subtext .

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maybe not but Charteris should have been penalised.

You cannot blame Charteris for not being penalised,can you?

Very honest of him and nice to hear that they decided against it in the end.

Davie wrote:

JDandfries wrote:Incredible, was this his way of having a snipe at the Warburton decision?

It certainly looks that way. Just another person that thinks a RWC semi-final should be refereed differently from "less important" matches

In that case,Davie,can you point out another player who was red-carded during a WC game for this type of offence?Yellow was the norm that had been established.

Taff - this has been gone over hundreds of times already, those earlier offenses that were "only" given yellow cards were all reviewed after the match and effectively increased to red card offenses. Not only that, but the referees in question were warned that they hadn't performed their duties correctly

Taffineastbourne wrote:

Davie wrote:

JDandfries wrote:Incredible, was this his way of having a snipe at the Warburton decision?

It certainly looks that way. Just another person that thinks a RWC semi-final should be refereed differently from "less important" matches

In that case,Davie,can you point out another player who was red-carded during a WC game for this type of offence?Yellow was the norm that had been established.

Davey the troll/moderator

You only seem to enjoy the rugby site if you can find a way to annoy or disagree with the welsh...!


Why is that..?

Davie wrote:Taff - this has been gone over hundreds of times already, those earlier offenses that were "only" given yellow cards were all reviewed after the match and effectively increased to red card offenses. Not only that, but the referees in question were warned that they hadn't performed their duties correctly

The status quo had been established.This would be just as wrong if a French player had been dismissed.You want all games reffed the same and yet you are happy that the semi-final was markedly different.An edict AFTER the WC should have been made.That would have been fair and equitable.To have had only one team reduced to 14 men for similar offences does not demonstrate to me that all games have been reffed in the same way.I am surprised that you cannot see this.

So you ref all games based on the worst reffing performance? If bad refs miss loads of problems they they all have to?

Strange logic. Isn't it better to try and get them all reffing in the way the IRB want?

HammerofThunor wrote:So you ref all games based on the worst reffing performance? If bad refs miss loads of problems they they all have to?

Strange logic. Isn't it better to try and get them all reffing in the way the IRB want?

If you trying to run a fair tournament everyone should operate under the same application of the laws.This is where the application of the letter of the law needs to be tempered by common sense and fairness.Justice and legality are clearly not always the same.

So you're saying Alain Rolland should have awarded a yellow card even though he knew it was a red-card offence?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:So you're saying Alain Rolland should have awarded a yellow card even though he knew it was a red-card offence?

I suppose that I am.Bit like refs allowing crooked feeds when they know it should be a free kick

It's not the letter of the law that they're following. The law says that a dangerous tackle is a penalty offense. In addition to the IRB have given guidance on the issuing of on-field sanctions for many thing, inlcuding tip-tackles. And they are trying to run all the games the same.

Unfortunately all refs run the games slightly different. The one thing they're never going to bend with is dangerous tackles like these. They'll always recommend red cards, always chastise refs for not giving them and alway ban the players that do them. I certainly don't agree that dangerous play should be allowed because it's been missed in the past.

And I'll say rolland applied the IRB guidelines with common sense and fairness. Warburton committed a red card offence and got red carded. Nought fairer than that.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:So you're saying Alain Rolland should have awarded a yellow card even though he knew it was a red-card offence?

I suppose that I am.Bit like refs allowing crooked feeds when they know it should be a free kick

But they shouldn't. If you lsten to supposed scrum experts it's a partial cause of all the collapses we have. The IRB keep telling the refs to focus on it but they can't be bothered. It's a perfect example of the refs doing what they want and causing maasive problems (opposite to your argument).

IF - Clerc had been seriously injured, quite possible given the circumstances, and Rolland had issued a yellow, there would be hell on.

Stop moaning, accept it, and divert you blame to messers, Hook and Jones

The hypocrisy of Welsh fans continues to be astonishing. 'We want refereeing consistency' yet when it came to the red card the referee should have considered the occasion of the semi-final. So under that logic if it had happened against Ireland or in the group stages a red card would have been fine then?

Taffineastbourne wrote:An edict AFTER the WC should have been made.That would have been fair and equitable.To have had only one team reduced to 14 men for similar offences does not demonstrate to me that all games have been reffed in the same way.I am surprised that you cannot see this.

Several edicts were made in the two years before the world cup that all the coaches were made aware of. When players were wrongly given yellow cards or no punishment they were admonished by the citing officials for not producing reds as instructed by the IRB. If Warburton and the Welsh coaching staff somehow believe they were wronged or blindsided they only have themselves to blame.

There is no point moaning constantly ad nasueum about how the law should be interpreted. We are dealing with the law as it stands and as the majority of people outside of Wales acknowledge the decision was, unfortunately, right. My opinion of the Welsh players only increased after the match when Roberts and Williams showed how classy they were in responded to Bayfield in the interview. Inside they may have been seething but didn't let it show. Now, how about the response of some Welsh fans. Death threats left for Roland online. The 14 heroic players in red have been sorely let down by a minority of fans, who may be fewer in number, but make the most noise.

Hookisms and Hyperbole, I'm glad you realise that it's a minority of Welsh fans.

Glas a du wrote:I thought about shagging Sienna Millar, but I'm out of her league.

Glas, don't put yersel down fella, how will you ever know without trying?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Hookisms and Hyperbole, I'm glad you realise that it's a minority of Welsh fans.

People are very easy to jump on the band wagon of disputing one incident with that very few Welsh fans are aggrieved about...!

I have noticed a resurgence of posts jumping over the opinions of one or two welsh fans but accusing the majority of us of being bad sports...

Inevitably the same so called fans that constantly try to provoke argument and antagonism on threads regarding anything Welsh.

Enough said on that matter...!


With regards to this post, I was amazed to read the statement in this mornings press, why would you say something like that unless you were using it to point a finger else where, at the IRB or other nations. Something that Gatland has done before very casually, often to massive uproar.

Anyhow, we didn't cheat, we played our best with a man and a world-class tighthead prop off the pitch and we lost by a point.

Still immensely proud of the Welsh players, really looking forward to Friday night. It is a massive opportunity to finish this World Cup on a high. The first of five consecutive tests against Wales for the Wallabies. Should be a great series...!

JDandfries wrote:Stop moaning, accept it, and divert you blame to messers, Hook and Jones

Spot-on. Same problem we had against SA, taking the points on offer after doing the hardwork to get into scoring positions.

The Welsh players and the majority of Welsh fans have been a credit to the sport and a credit to the country as a whole. The press on the other hand, well, thats another matter altogether

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:The Welsh players and the majority of Welsh fans have been a credit to the sport and a credit to the country as a whole. The press on the other hand, well, thats another matter altogether

+1

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:The Welsh players and the majority of Welsh fans have been a credit to the sport and a credit to the country as a whole. The press on the other hand, well, thats another matter altogether

Just to clarify, a lot of the press that has been 'another matter altogether' has been non-welsh. Just don't want ONLY the Welsh press to get the blame!