Wales XV v South Africa.11/09

First topic message reminder :

Here we go then.

WALES:
James Hook; George North, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Shane Williams, Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Huw Bennett, Adam Jones, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (C), Toby Faletau
REPLACEMENTS: Lloyd Burns, Ryan Bevington, Bradley Davies, Andy Powell, Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams, Leigh Halfpenny

[quote="Gatts"]

mr-bryns-attitude wrote:the team has been named,why don't we all get behind them and be positive,bloooody hell i wouldn't like to be in the trenches with some people on here beside me.

here here


charteris....why!!![/quote

it wes very likely a close call between brad and charteris,i think charteris just did enought against england,brad didn't take his opportunity against argentina imo.

nottins_jones wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:This doesnt make sense , Wales are going all out for the attack but stick hook at 15?? he;s Wales best attacking option and should be at first 5

Priestland is a good attacker. The whole backline is. They both play at 10 and 15 so will be interchanging positions. The back 5 is quite mobile too.

I think if you remember back to the three friendlies, Priestlands pivotal role in the first 1 and a 1/2 games revealed he is more inspirational in providing the attacking platform for Wales............ or can't posters remember that far back?.

Most fans seem to agree that Wales were more attack minded in the first friendly where Hook was 15 and Priestland 10, and even in the first 40 mins of the next match. Don't confuse a headline grabbing run as more insiprational more important than a player who consistently provides the attacking lines for the side.

Gatland will play Priestland as 1st receiver full stop, there will be little exchanges of roles between 15 and 10.

Cymroglan wrote:You wear them down.

Might work, most of their team are older than England's

we have 3 strike runners is our back 3 thats how you beat the boks, its not grind em down rugby. use shane north and hook at every possible chance.

I like rhys p at 10 thats a good back line and a young fit back row, if the set piece holds we can pull off the win

jb1973 wrote:I can see why charteris is in, davies is no line out option neither are any of the back row (now ryan is out) charteris is there to counter matfield

not saying its right or wrong but i can see why he has been picked

Yes i know you are right and i know he will take on VM and with no BB that is a battle we can really contest now in a lineout that is a pile of pooh.

As for the defeatists...why bother watching the world cup?

its all part of Gats plan.....no one wants to win this group...it means a NZ semi

I like your style munk!!!

Can't see why charteris i's getting stick. Bradley Davies is frickin awful.
Charteris defence v England was immense and although I see us being on the back foot I expect another mammoth effort in defence with the like of lydiate, warburton, Toby, big bird and AWJ.

Defences win world cups

I am now officially Luke Charteris' number 1 Fan



He can shag my sister after Scott Gibbs and Gorgeous North

If we're going to progress to the KO stages I'd rather top the group. Be nice to beat South Africa in the world cup wouldn't it!

Gats.
I don't think anyone would have a go after Scott Gibbs. He floored oz du randt, so I wouldn't like to think what he'd do to your sister!

people think of charteris as a skinny bean pole correct me if im woring but he is heavier than b davies?

Adam Jones is a huge boost for us.

Yes of course it would...and I am not advocating throwing games just so we are clear. RWC means tournament rugby...its a different animal and we need to at least consider tactics...i would prefer to win every game and as far as i am aware no team has lost a group game and gone on to win so maybe i should just back us.

Still, Aus quarter and england semi sounds better to me than Ire quarter and NZ semi

Chateris 6ft 9 20st

Davies 6ft 6 18 st 10

I would rather play a under pressure NZ side.

When we get desperate in any game with hook on the pitch he will be moved to 10 as that's our best chance of creating a try. This fact is what makes not picking him there from the start a strange one. I understand that he is the most experienced FB given Byrne is so out of form and SA will kick a bit but RP at fullback and Hook at 10 would have been better IMO.

Either way they have my support 100% and RP is capable of really getting the back line attacking. Exciting times but we should all be grateful the Hook puts up with being moved from pillar to post all the time and always gives his all.

i would be happy with any number of combinations of our backline and this one is fine i think. its not that important, its the tight five where we will have to front up. if we can get close in this department then this backline will fuction well imo.

front five and the ruck...who is the ref?

Our front five is key I agree. I guess with Charteris we gain in the line out and loose a bit in the scrum.

I just really hope we attack their line out as if we can nick a bit there that will really strike at the heart of one of their main strengths.

kingjohn7 wrote:i would be happy with any number of combinations of our backline and this one is fine i think. its not that important, its the tight five where we will have to front up. if we can get close in this department then this backline will fuction well imo.

100% spot on, your set piece, scrum, and line outs and around the loose is where the game will be won or lost. Gain parity there and you have an excellent chance

ALL THE BEST WALES............... Your celtic brothers will be rooting tooting for you

flyhalffactory wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:i would be happy with any number of combinations of our backline and this one is fine i think. its not that important, its the tight five where we will have to front up. if we can get close in this department then this backline will fuction well imo.

100% spot on, your set piece, scrum, and line outs and around the loose is where the game will be won or lost. Gain parity there and you have an excellent chance

ALL THE BEST WALES............... Your celtic brothers will be rooting tooting for you

good man fhf

Don't know what to say about Priestland at 10. I maintain that Hook is first choice there but they could well be switched at half time, worked fairly well against England. The real lamentable issue is lack of experience whoever starts at fullback (Hook, Priestland and Halfpenny) and lack of form from our one specialist (Byrne).

Makes you think SA will target that area or, dare I suggest it, aim to take out Hook. Good thing Botha is missing out for this reason. Either way, tackling is going to have to be spot on and the back row at its technical best.

Cymru Am Byth

Knowsit17 wrote:

Makes you think SA will target that area or, dare I suggest it, aim to take out Hook. Good thing Botha is missing out for this reason.

I can't wait for Biltong to read this....

Gatts wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

Makes you think SA will target that area or, dare I suggest it, aim to take out Hook. Good thing Botha is missing out for this reason.

I can't wait for Biltong to read this....

I trust that the enormity of the occasion, along with a little - fuelled aid, has softened his heart and made him hope for as clean and thrilling a game with as few injuries as I am

Yeah he has gone all misty eyed recently, they are really soft these Boer types, sure he is going to be really understanding, assuming it is a him of course.

Im afraid forecast for sunday is rain over the whole country.its ok in wellington now but... Hmmm

Morning Gentlemen, misty eyed soft hearted Boer, that I am.

But I got misty eyed at my sons birth, and then 2 other times in my life, 1995 RWC final and 2007 RWc final.

Soft hearted towards my family, and to those teams fighting brave for a victory.

Anyway getting off topic here, Jaque Fourie mentioned basically what you guys mentioned, we expect the Welsh to try and do what Australia did to New Zealand in the last test. Be physical up front and compete at the breakdown, for me the question is whether Wales can realistically keep that intensity for 80 minutes.

In my opinion no team can really keep that intensity for 80 minutes, when teams slack off in their intensity it is crucial not to make mistakes, because those errors will then cost you dearly.

He also mentioned a change in the pattern of welsh defence, now with the referees going to clamp down hard on offside lines and breakdown points, this wiil be an area where teams must have discipline other wise they will get penalised a lot. So controlled aggression will be key.

Once again the enthusiasm of the Welsh may find them conceding a number of penalties before Warburton will be able to calm his guys.

The back three of any team can be dangerous, but SA will have worked on their defensive organisation, something that lacked in the NZ and Australia tests at home, however there is nothing wrong with their scrambling defence and committed players is key to that.

What will SA do, well they clearly won't run from their own half. It wil be classic Bok rugby, they will kick for territory and only when in the welsh half they will play with ball in hand. Expect pick and drives similar to what the All Blacks did in the second half of the Ozzie test, that is exactly how they gained control for the most part of the second half.

A quick start will be vital for Wales, get ahead by more than ten points, if they don't it might not be enough, the longer the game goes on, the more control the boks will gain due to their forwards. Expect Bismarck du Plessis and Willem Alberts to come on in the last 20 minutes, by then the theory would have been that impact players with fresh legs will be able to drive the ball forward.

There won't be many angled running, but I am confident that the back line as always will run straight, and with rush defence, one broken tackle can mean opportunities for a bok backline that does have penetration ability. My only hope is that Jean de Villiers does offload because that is the biggest reason we don't score enough tries. He draws defenders but then doesn't exploit those opportunities by offloading.

I would have loved to see Lambie in the 22, he is a little inexperienced but has some x factor.

But you can see how serious PDV is taking this match, he is not taking chances with guys like Lambie or Aplon, he goes on the premise of defence first, then territory, control possession and then use the opportunities available, and in RWC that is what matters.

Well that's settled, I'm not making any more predictions. I only got 12 of the starters. My optimism is wilting - the SA team looks excellent and so experienced. Simple thing is, I can't see us getting enough of the ball and when we do Priestland (talent that he is) is very inexperienced. Hook is wasted and the only view he'll have is Roberts fat arse. At the end of 80 minutes i'll bet that not even a forensic scientist could find evidence that Davies touched the ball !

Toby will need an error free game of his life and I hope he's been practicing picking up the ball whilst running backwards.

I'm going for a pick me up before watching the NZ game.

Morning biltong.
2 Hours to go here.
Im staying in tonight to take in the atmosphere of the opening and first match.
Tomorrow off to wellington waterfront to hopefully catch up with some fans from overseas. South africa and wales especially.
Bob skinstad marshall and stu barnes hosting our sky at the moment.
Which coverage are you getting there?

Morning Taylorman, i am sure you are getting edgy with excitement, you are lucky your team starts today, I still have to wait another 48 hours before we get under way.

We have quite a number of different shows for this world cup.

Supersport is airing all 48 games on High Defeinition which is just great.
We have the Superfan show daily after matches.
Toks and Tjops with interviewing locals on the days play over a bbq.
We then have the Kia Ora show from New Zealand on match days I think
and the once weekly expert analysis show, can't remember what they call it now.

The "lekker" thing is supersport has dedicated a channel to this for the entire world cup, we won't miss a thing.

Hmmmm...... A hell-for-leather attacking selection - quite a surprise. I'm not a fan of the Hook at 15 option, especially as he looked dangerous and effective at 10 in the warm-ups. Now he won't be taking goal or line kicks?

Maybe Gatland feels that currently Hook is both our best 10 option and our best 15 option, but at 10 he has a very promising deputy in Priestland, who also did well in the warm-ups. If that is indeed the logic and the Gatman is happy to field non-specialists at 15 (presumably 1/2P is the cover) , then I'm wondering why he bothered to take Byrne at all.

Charteris is there because we want to win at least some line-outs.

Faletau starting instead of Powell is bold. The pros and cons of that have been well-ventilated here, so let's see how it goes.

I agree with MoG that it would have been much better if Priestland, Faletau and others had had more starts under their belts, and I do blame Gatland's conseervatism for that.

I also agree with MoG on the related Stephen Jones issue. If you've done the tour of the Millenium dressing-room, you may have see the notices pinned up which show SJ taking the backs coaching sessions. He's the only player doing that, so he's almost part of the coaching team. Obviously a tribute to the guy's resilience and sporting nous, but also made him difficult to drop.

I think the selection is the best we have available.

Bradley has been average since bursting onto the scene and seems to have lost his barnstorming runs and tackles. Charteris has improved defensively and offers a better line out option. Easy decision.

Felatau is a gamble, can change a game either way, making too many errors for my liking in such a key position but with Jones injured the other option is Powell who is also hit and miss.

Halfpenny hasn't the recent experience or game time to start at 15, Byrne shockingly off form so the options at the back were Priestland or Hook. Priestland has done a great job in stepping up to the international game and is creative enough to set the centres loose. He's a natural 10 and i feel more comfortable with the selction than the alternative. On the attack Hook can come into the line amongst the centres where he can score or create chances.

Front row replacements are my biggest concern. If Adam Jones and/or Bennet go down early then its pretty much game over. With the Saffers having a full front row on the bench the scrum could be a torrid time in the second half but with only 2 backs on the bench they could struggle should an outside back get injured.

Can Wales win, of course we can.

First off Well Done Warren (on the whole)

Like most I thought Byrne would start as long as he was fit.

Like it that Priestland and Hook both on field though would have swapped them, maybe they will do that through game.

Glad Faletau got nod over Buggy Boy

Interesting quote on Charteris by Gatland.

Gatland added: “It was a close call between the second-rows, but I think at the moment Luke is our number one. He played really well against England.

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/09/09/rugby-world-cup-latest-warren-gatland-excited-by-team-selection-v-south-africa-91466-29391407/#ixzz1XRNwsFLX

The more I look at the team, the more I like it. It's a big ask for Rhys to start at 10 against SA, but then it was a huge ask for him to start against England at Twickenham, and I thought he aquited himself very well there.

Really looking forward now, this team has to come out and just bring it to SA, play our hearts out, the time is now here. Ymlaen Cymru!

Can't see peoples problem with Charteris. I've always been quite impressed by him when he's played for Wales and he is definitely a target for Bennett to hit. I like Priestland at 10. I have a feeling he may have his best game for Wales yet

Agreed. Our forwards have to have a 'no backwards step' philosophy. There is enough beef there to do it but it's all in the head. if they can win ball our backs have a chance but we definitely can't afford to defend as much as we had to in the warm ups.

honestly i could see priestland starting at 10 with jones out. i would have used hook outside roberts and tuppence at 15 but im not suprised to see hook at 15 either; he is gatlands second choice 15 and gats doesnt seem to like hook at 10.

chartris and faletau are a suprise, and a welcome one. i thought it would be brad and powell starting.

a good looking team. i lookforward to seeing them play.

Just been listening to Dr Gwyn Jones talking about our No 10.. He said that people in the game reckon that Priestland has more vision than Hook he is more aware of whats going on.

He's had the benefit of playing there more Cymro, and he's had the opportunity to be mentored by Stephen Jones.

Hook's been moved all over the shop and is just learning how he goes, bout do be a difference in their gamea wareness and vision at this stage. Give Hook a season at 10 and he might very well improve that part of his game.

Well to be fair, a lot of what the good Dr talks makes sense, most of the time............

RD It's not a criticism of Hook it just nice to know that Priestland is regarded as being better in that position than another quality player.
That can only be good for Wales.

Gwyn Jones is right - Priestland in essence plays more with his brain and is pragmatic and thoughtful with a good awareness of what's around him. Hook, is mercurial but plays more on instinct and intuition which can be a liability in such a pivotal role. Hook is starting to learn to be more pragmatic but Priestland just might be the better bet on this occasion. Lets see what Phillips throws him although it would be interesting to see him alongside his club mate Tavis.

Cymro - I know it's not a criticism, just stating why I don't think Hook has that aspect of his game sorted yet.

scoi wrote:Priestland has done a great job in stepping up to the international game and is creative enough to set the centres loose. He's a natural 10 and i feel more comfortable with the selction than the alternative.

Spot on. Priestland at ten is the right choice. His game management is better than Hook's and he's more likely than Hook to get the best out of our midfield - cast your mind back to the game at Twickenham.

Priestland sees things quicker than Hook. If we have Hook at ten, he'll hold on to the ball a fraction too long hoping for a gap to appear, meaning by the time he passes the centres have neither time nor space to do anything. Priestland will get the ball to them sooner, meaning they can do more with it (and he's quite capable of making breaks himself). Hook's talent comes to the fore when defences are scrambling and less organised - and he can step in at first receiver for that.

Cymroglan wrote:RD It's not a criticism of Hook it just nice to know that Priestland is regarded as being better in that position than another quality player.
That can only be good for Wales.

It is not that Preistland is better than Hook at flyhalf it is because Hook is better at fullback mainly he can catch and kick the ball a long way!

For whoever asked for it the Wales team has 490 caps (at least according to the WRU website)

P James - 26
H Bennett - 42
A Jones - 70
L Chat - 25
AWJ - 52
D Lydiate - 14
Sam Bready - 17
Toby - 3
Phillips - 54
Priestland - 4
Shane - 81
Jamie - 32
JD2 - 14
G North - 8
Hook - 54

Quite a few caps but most of them with a few players. Lots of players with only a handful of caps.

Very suprised at Charteris being picked ahead of Davies and Faletau at 8. Powell was selected for this tourament to provide experienced back up to Ryan, and now he isn't picked......strange!

Not suprised at Hook at 15, he is safe under the high ball and a good attacking option. His last competitive start at 10 was against France and he was shocking! This is a chance for Priestland to start coming out from Jones shadow.

Bench is the biggest concern, Burns and Bevington are just not international quality. Bevington may be in the furure, when he learns to scrumage but at the moment he is 3rd choice Welsh qualified no 1 at his club. Lets hope Jones, Jones and Melon are fit soon, because there is no doubt that despite their advancing years they are still the best Wales have.

I would have played Hook at 10 but such is life. The key thing IMO from Wales perspective that nobody seems to mention and the press have completely forgotten about and the one thing that we should all be thanking our lucky stars about is that Shane Williams is fit and raring to go. He is our best player, the greatest try scorer in the history of the NH and the key man to unlock what will be formidable defensive in this WC.

If SW had been Australian and played instead of Campo in his day then he would have scored more tries and been the greatest ever try scorer - the fact he is second having played for a team ranked from 6-10th in the World makes him greatest there has ever been.

Come on Shane...Come on Wales!!!!!

deadfred wrote:If SW had been Australian and played instead of Campo in his day then he would have scored more tries and been the greatest ever try scorer - the fact he is second having played for a team ranked from 6-10th in the World makes him greatest there has ever been.

He's been great for us and we'll miss him when he's gone, but I think you're over-egging the pudding there.

Not sure the reasoning behind putting Smit at hooker and leaving Bismark on the bench, terrible decision by the Saffas. Teams need leadership but that starting 15 has more than enough of it even without Smit and Bismark du Plessis is the hooker of the moment, he should be starting.

Wales front five is going to be really up against it. The second rows are not that agressive and only Adam Jones is an international standard scrummager in that front row. Going to be a tough old game for Wales if it rains. If the weather is good they might just get a win, though they'll have to be more tactically astute than in the warm up games.