Warren promises Groves v DeGale rematch

I think the turn of events with Groves signing for Warren is rather interesting. warren has come and and said that a rematch in the near fututre will happen and could potentially involve the European, Commonwealth and British title. This would be risky inhousing boxing given the stages that both men are it in their careers. a second loss for DeGale could spell real trouble especially.

Also somewhat strange is that Booth has continued in his capacity as trainer for Groves which seems rather complicated given the strained relationship between Hayemaker and Warren and the fact Booth was, for all intents and purposes, Groves previous promoter. One would think the relationship there would have suffered although Booth appears to have no problems with Groves leaving him in his promotional capacity. Is this an admission from Booth that he will no longer promote and that Haye is finished?

There is much to specualte on with Groves career seeming to have ground to a halt after his biggest win and perhaps the fact De gale has managed to secure a European title shot despite being on the back of a loss has led Groves to feel Booth and Haye just dont have the promotional power that Warren can offer.

Hayemaker served its purpose. It was there purely to promote Haye. He signed a couple of boxers on the way but lets be honest that was just a little side hobby. Haye has no pull in the big world when it comes to promotion. Warren did all the work with the De Gale and Groves while Haye was just running around saying how he was gonna destroy Wlad. Booth is a trainer and not a promoter as well. He knows where his bread is going to be buttered...and its with Warren

It's an interesting state of affairs isn't it Lion and much like yourself I have no idea what to make of it. Just from a simple terms of opportunities it makes absolute sense for Groves to join Warren because whatever your thoughts on Frank he can certainly deliver shots for his fighters as the Euro shot for Degale on the back of a loss amply proves.

However this issue is obviously confused by Degale, you would have to think Frank invested heavily in James because Olympic gold medalists don't tend to be cheap or short of offers and so you would have to think he would remain a priority for him. Heres hoping Groves does not get lost in the mix because as was proven when Warren had Hatton and Witter in his ranks the lesser profile fighter in Witter did find himself playing second fiddle to the cash cow. Will be fascinating to see how this plays out.

I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but it does make me wonder whether Warren has signed Groves just to make the rematch with Degale a certainty.

I must confess I know very little about his European opponent Wilczswecki but it seems like it should be something of a risk on paper for a fighter thats on the back of a defeat and still quite inexperienced. With Groves signing for Warren and a rematch down the line promised could also serve as a distraction although on the other hand could also serve as a big motivator for DeGale who will no doubt want to set the record straight. However Im not too sure how significant a favourite he is supposed be over his next opponent and a loss there would be crippling one would think.

trottb wrote:I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but it does make me wonder whether Warren has signed Groves just to make the rematch with Degale a certainty.

Its an interesting point of view although my understanding of the situation was that it was more of a case of Groves approaching Warren to promote him rather than Warren actively seeking to sign Groves.

trottb wrote:I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but it does make me wonder whether Warren has signed Groves just to make the rematch with Degale a certainty.

To me it's clear that this is what it is about, a rematch with Degale is only good for Degale, Groves doesn't need it, if he wins again he's at the same place he is already, it really is a no-win situation for him. Degale is Warren's golden-boy, this can only be a bad move for Groves.

George has always come across as a bright and intelligent lad (even if he does have stinky breff, innit) so he obviously hasn't gone into this with his eyes closed. With Hayemaker obviously closing down perhaps it was a choice between Warren or Channel 5 Mick.

I worry that an imminent re-match, while it might do good business, would ultimately not help the long-term prospects of either fighter. The first fight showed that, promising though they both are, they have a good few rough edges to knock off to be players on the world stage. I'm far from convinced that settling grudges with each other is the way to improve.

Half a dozen more fights each, with the quality stepped up at each stage, would give us a fight, two years or so hence, with a variety of belts probably on the line, between two boxers much closer to their full potential. The build-up would be more meaningful; the anticipation would be greater and business would be even better. I can see why Groves would choose Warren; I don't see that a rematch six months down the line would properly serve the interests of either Groves or DeGale.

Colonial Lion wrote:

trottb wrote:I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but it does make me wonder whether Warren has signed Groves just to make the rematch with Degale a certainty.

Its an interesting point of view although my understanding of the situation was that it was more of a case of Groves approaching Warren to promote him rather than Warren actively seeking to sign Groves.

Didn't realsie that Groves approcahed him. I can see why from a purely boxing point of view as you and numerous others have said, despite his flaws, he can promote and get the big fights. I feel extremely sorry for Groves and how he was badly let down by Hayemaker.

More than a little bit curious on what happened with regards to matchroom.

I must say I feel rather sorry for Groves in this. It seems quite unforgiveable that after a career high win in a well promoted fight that his career could be allowed to stall so badly. Certainly it seems bizzare that there hasnt even been a keep busy fight set up for him while bigger decisions are made at least to keep him active, sharp and developing. I think it reflects rather poorly on Hayemaker who seems to have essentially thrown in the towel after Hayes defeat without any real consideration for their clients. It looks from the outside that Groves had little choice but to find himself a new promoter or risk his career stalling completely. He hasnt even defended his titles on a domestic level since which would be straight forward to arrange. as I said above the whole scenario seems a bit strange especially with Booth continuing to train Groves. I would not be surprised to see Warren look to have Booth replaced in the future as the relationship between the two promotions was strained at best and I cant see it being a healthy working environment for Groves. Is Booth really capable of taking a back seat to Warren and letting him call the shots with what was essentially his prospect?

I would agree with the comments that a rematch serves only to suit DeGale and their could be real problems should Degale win for Groves career as he would be very much in danger of becoming a second fiddle. If DeGale brings a European title to the table however one could argue a win for Groves will enhance his career even further. But ultimately I think back fighters need to focus on developing rather than further stoking a rivalry at the moment.

Union Cane wrote:

trottb wrote:I know it sounds a bit ridiculous but it does make me wonder whether Warren has signed Groves just to make the rematch with Degale a certainty.

To me it's clear that this is what it is about, a rematch with Degale is only good for Degale, Groves doesn't need it, if he wins again he's at the same place he is already, it really is a no-win situation for him. Degale is Warren's golden-boy, this can only be a bad move for Groves.

George has always come across as a bright and intelligent lad (even if he does have stinky breff, innit) so he obviously hasn't gone into this with his eyes closed. With Hayemaker obviously closing down perhaps it was a choice between Warren or Channel 5 Mick.

I agree with you. When I read this story, I immediately worried for Groves considering how highly Warren will value DeGale. What will a loss to DeGale do for Groves' career if it happens? How will Warren promote him?

Groves still has booth who wont want to sell him short as he is his only fighter. So Groves doesnt have tot ake on Degale until he is ready.

Seanusarrilius wrote:Groves still has booth who wont want to sell him short as he is his only fighter. So Groves doesnt have tot ake on Degale until he is ready too.

The implications are that Booth may not have much say at all anymore in these matters though. Warren as manager/promoter of Groves career will be the one calling the shots.

Colonial Lion wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Groves still has booth who wont want to sell him short as he is his only fighter. So Groves doesnt have tot ake on Degale until he is ready too.

The implications are that Booth may not have much say at all anymore in these matters though. Warren as manager/promoter of Groves career will be the one calling the shots.

Offically, yes he will. In reality, Booth and Groves appear to have an exceptionally close relationship, forged over many years, and I can't envisage a situation where Booth isn't in George's ear, offering him the same advise he will have been offering him so far in his career. Say what you like about Adam Booth, he has generally done things his way, sometimes upsetting the establishment, and if he advises Groves not to do something, then he will still have a huge amount of influence over him. Warren, as paymaster, may indeed win out in the end, but it won't just be case of him telling George to jump, and Groves asking how high.

Colonial Lion wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Groves still has booth who wont want to sell him short as he is his only fighter. So Groves doesnt have tot ake on Degale until he is ready too.

The implications are that Booth may not have much say at all anymore in these matters though. Warren as manager/promoter of Groves career will be the one calling the shots.

Yeah Booth is still managing and training Groves.

I just hope they both move on before a rematch. Otherwise we could be left with a crummy Harrison Williams rivalry set at domestic level for a while. Neither fighter needs this at this stage now. The real problem is that they are both in a rich division of talent... what are the chances they both grab an alphabet title and fight later on?

Its possible which is why I think warren my look to have him replaced. In reality, however close Booth and Groves may be, I see it as being counter productive when your trainer (and ex promoter) has a strained relationship with your current promoter and manager. For the sake of professionalism Booth may have to accept taken a very much back seat to Groves career direction now because if he doesnt and Warren and booth cant work together or agree on principles it will only impact negatively on Groves career.

I suppose only time will tell how it works out but it seems an unlikely situation on paper given Booths past role with Groves and his relationship with Warren in general.

Colonial Lion wrote:
I suppose only time will tell how it works out but it seems an unlikely situation on paper given Booths past role with Groves and his relationship with Warren in general.

Indeed. I am not disagreeing with you, and it makes the situation unusual and interesting in equal measures. I hope, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, that George is big enough and clever enough to do what is right for his career, regardless of who is telling him what.

I can well imagine how strained the meetings are going to be if Booth and Warren can't find some common ground for Groves's progression.

Is this the beginning of Groves being shafted out of spite for the sake of Degale?

i hope not BALTIMORA

Ok guys, let's ehar it. Who do you all see Groves fighting next? No one seems to be offering there opinion. He needs an opponent and quick. Personally i think he will struggle to find one that is a progression of Degale as Degale is the best groves can beat att he moment. So Robin Reid or even Jean Paul Mendy would do

I don't know who the best option would be but I certainly don't think there's any attraction for Groves in a Degale rematch. Sadly, I have a suspicion that's what Warren will angle towards. I think he figures Degale still has the potential to be the better of the two in the long term, and setting up a rematch with Groves would iron out the bump that is Degale's first loss. That is of course assuming Degale were to win, which I think he would. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if a close decision went the other way to last time.

A lot of the rematch potential also depends on how Degale gets on in his Euro fight as Colonial has already stated this could be a problem.

Assuming all goes to plan for both fighters this could be a cracking fight in a couple of years time.

Warren willl definatley sort a rematch and that is not the worst thing that can happen for Groves because he won the first one and will be able to make a lot of money in hte second. He will be able to demand more and really urine Degale off in the process. Even if he loses a pts decision then there could be a trilogy and another big payday. So it is not a matter of should Groves fight Degale again, but when.

Warren will want to capitalize on them both. So Groves goes another 18 months sees if he has it to take to world level. If he wants to fight Degale in a rematch first as undefeated fighter cool. If not then go to world level. Both of them are going to need time cos come novemebr the champs will be a variation of Bute/Kessler/Froch or Ward and neither Groves nor Degale is beating them antime soon, its literally men v boys

Degake will destroy groves in a rematch I thought he won the first anyway although it was close. But he will improve and cant see him making the smae mistakes twice warren knows it this is why he wants to set up a rematch.

Incontinent use of the word "destroy" does bring a former treader of these boards to mind. I wish I had a quid for each occasion on which the supposed "destruction" ended up as a titanic struggle.

This is probably to waste my time, but it is has been quite clear since their amateur days that Groves and DeGale are two fairly well matched fighters. DeGale may have more flair, whatever use that is in the long run, but I suspect that there will never be much in it when these two meet.

[quote="captain carrantuohil"] I wish I had a quid for each occasion on which the supposed "destruction" ended up as a titanic struggle.

quote]

You'd have nearly as much as you won on the first fight.

Yes, I'm just waiting for Brigadoon to appear for a second time in a year, Jeff!

Am always wary of comments such as destroy, they are simply too categorical for a sport where the game can change in literally a second. I was as confident as I have been in a long time that Wlad would beat Haye but have eaten way too much humble pie on here and its predecesor to use such a word.

I think people have not quite got the level that Groves is actually on in honesty, he is clearly close to Degale, perhaps he doesn't quite have the same skill, however he has brains, in honesty that usually carries a man further. A man who can understand certain things and move forward, I get a feeling Degale isn't the brightest lightbulb in the shop and feel these two will always be matched close, I also feel they will have enough to challenge up at the top in 2 years time or so.