England vs Ireland - ODI

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a discussion thread for this. With many things to debate we should start early!

Firstly the England side:

Eoin Morgan (c)
Chris Woakes
Jonathan Trott
James Taylor
Ben Stokes
Samit Patel
Graeme Onions
Steven Finn
Scott Borthwick
Ravi Bopara
Jade Dernbach
Jonny Bairstow (wk)
Craig Kieswetter (wk)

Ireland Squad:

A Cusack
G Dockrell
D Johnston
N Jones
E Joyce
J Mooney
K O'Brien
N O'Brien (wk)
W Porterfield (c)
W Rankin
P Stirling
A van der Merwe
A White
G Wilson

Fitting Buttler into the current ODI team is tricky, but he should definitely be a contender for the England Twenty20s side.

graham onions will be key for us tomorrow

Buttler could take the Luke Wright hitting place at 7 fairly easily.

i would have liked to have seen bresnan play this game.

Didnt Butler get dropped to the Somerst second XI for a while?
The trouble with having him at 7 would be fitting in 10 overs+ bowling into the top 6

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Didnt Butler get dropped to the Somerst second XI for a while?
The trouble with having him at 7 would be fitting in 10 overs+ bowling into the top 6

Yup was in there for a couple of games because he wasn't scoring runs, took him a while to work his way back in

He was in the CC 2nd XI am I right? His One-Day form has still been brilliant.

think he may have missed 1 maybe 2 one day games

i am really looking forward to this game

I dont follow CC very closely tbh, I just mentione dit becauise he came up on TMS when tehy were discussing the squad and the suggestion was that he hadnt kicked on this season and was dropping down the pecking order. They didnt think he was up to it as a keeper at international level, but maybe in time if like Prior he worked on it he could be in the mix...more likely to be as a spealist batsman in T20 if anything in the short term though.

This is his "recent matches" from cricinfo
63*, 4c/0s Somerset v Gloucs Bristol 24 Aug 2011 List A
23* Somerset v Unicorns Taunton 21 Aug 2011 List A
43 Somerset v Notts Taunton 17 Aug 2011 First-class
34 Somerset v Notts Taunton 15 Aug 2011 List A
10 Somerset v Glamorgan Cardiff 14 Aug 2011 List A
34* Somerset v Notts Nottingham 7 Aug 2011 Twenty20
4c/0s, 100, 2c/0s Somerset v Sussex Taunton 2 Aug 2011 First-class
- Somerset v Essex Southend-on-Sea 31 Jul 2011 List A
9, 1c/0s, 9, 3c/0s Smrst 2nd XI v Kent 2nd XI Maidstone 26 Jul 2011 Other match
0, 2c/0s Smrst 2nd XI v Kent 2nd XI Maidstone 25 Jul 2011 Other OD


Actually looks like hes been in excellent first class form but a up and down in limited overs in the last month ( doesnt show how long he was dropped/rested for but Im sure someone could double check that)


With all the big hitting youngsters they are trying out at the minute its no great suprise he hasnt made the squad.

Here we go then.

FOF, do you want to Sticky this?

Sure. Consider it done.

I think the toss could be crucial today, if Ireland win and bowl first they could surprise us as the ball should do something today. Could see us being 60-4 or something.

I think England are taking a big risk by such a cautious start. This game is almost certain to be rain shortene.
Looks like theres plenty of life in the pitch though.

Hi All.

I've been away so missed the news on this.

Are eng trying to disrespect their fans and ireland by putting out this b team?

Experimental I guess but it'll get thumped today if the senior side couldn't even manage to beat Ireland surely?

Good for Ireland though. Surely a second win on the bounce and proof in their minds they are now above Eng in the pecking order.

looks like another england captain losing the toss in bowl first conditions. the senior team would bounce back but i fear these lads will get spanked away from home here.

Presumably this is about resting the first choice team for the India series?

They've just had a series of test cricket where they've played with great intensity, they deserve their break.

Good bowling by the Irish so far it would seem.

trebeel...no they have been quite explicit about why they are blooding youngsters, its the start of the build toward the next worldcup. They are aware that the side needs a revamp and that theres a new generation of talented bnig hitters out there so they are starting their dvelopment now.
The senior test players also require a rest before some return for the Indioa games.
Its not a lack of repsect for Ireland, its about getting teh best out of game thats only being plaed as a courtesy to keep Ireland financialy viable. As a game it means very little in real terms to Engfland, but a hell of lot o Ireland.

As it is they are doing their best to lose this. Terrible start, it will require a captains inning from Morgans and the big hitters to do their job to get a real total here.

The crowd are hilarious "pick on someone your own size" (Rankin bowling to Taylor)

Taylor is out for 1, shame.

hmm looks a horrible day for Eng.

Off to do me gardens i think.

Poor Taylor. So good against SL, gets his chance and then blows it here against a team that shouldn't be any stronger but in horrid conditions to be fair.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:trebeel...no they have been quite explicit about why they are blooding youngsters, its the start of the build toward the next worldcup. They are aware that the side needs a revamp and that theres a new generation of talented bnig hitters out there so they are starting their dvelopment now.
The senior test players also require a rest before some return for the Indioa games.
Its not a lack of repsect for Ireland, its about getting teh best out of game thats only being plaed as a courtesy to keep Ireland financialy viable. As a game it means very little in real terms to Engfland, but a hell of lot o Ireland.

As it is they are doing their best to lose this. Terrible start, it will require a captains inning from Morgans and the big hitters to do their job to get a real total here.

The crowd are hilarious "pick on someone your own size" (Rankin bowling to Taylor)

to the crowd this just proves they're a better team.

eng seemed determined to prove they are.

He is tiny though isn't he. Reminds me of my Dad. He always looked a bit comical when he went out to play footy standing only 5'4 and yet did great for years.

Still raining..

Back on, Morgan will be key for us

Hodge, come sign up to our 606v2 IPL fantasy league

Morgan is key big time now, don't want to leave the novices with too much to do.

dont have a great background knowledge of indian players tbh which features heavy in the IPL Would consider a T20 version of county teams

interesting body dip from morgan when bowler about to bowl

I thought Taylor looked a bit nervous out there today. Not sure if it is normal for him, but he was scratching his guard a lot etc. Hopefully he will get another go against India because I really rate him! He is the full package.

I see the live feed on the bbc are slagging Trotts inability to change the pace of his concern.

It is a concern but those commentators always amuse me. Just how good would they actually be if they tried doing it out there. Silly chaps.

This is a "bonus" game if you like, when we arranged it with Ireland they were probably aware that they wouldn't get the full first-team. It's more like a England 1.5 team than either a full first team or a full second team.

Morgan is playing well and Trott has started accelerating a little. The amount of balls he's faced he's got to stick in, hold the innings together and make a big score. It will be interesting to see how the hitters go at the bottom of the order, it will also be interesting to see when Morgan takes the powerplay and when England really start to go for it.

It will be a challenge for the bowlers, a shortened game that will possibly shorten even more, but it will be interesting to see how they all go. Hopefully the batsman can give them a total to defend.

An interesting question was raised earlier on commentary, are any England first team spots up for grabs in this game? Or is it just squad spots or places on future tours up for grabs?

For the first ODI I would have the 4 bowlers who have been all over India in the tests (Bresnan, Broad, Swann and Anderson), and I'd pencil in Patel at 7. You can't really see any other places available (unless one of the batsman gets rested), but Bopara could nail himself in as "next cab off the rank" with a good contribution here, with bat and possibly ball as well.

fair enough. I stand corrected. If Ireland knew full well that Eng would be using it for development and were helping them out by attending the fixture than that seems reasonable.

I guess Eng do need these chances to look at other teams and Ireland are a serious side in the ODI form.

The second spinner spot in the ODI side is still open. Patel hasnt done much to justify being first choice, its not impossible that his spot could be taken by Borthwick.
Guys like Woakes are Dernbach are playing for spots in the first choice side.
Trott still has to prove that he is undroppable.
Bopara has to prove that theres some point in him being alive.
That had wanted to pick Stokes for the Sri Lanka games squad but he got injured.

So yes there is more to the game for England selection than just blooding young players.


England are using it to their advantage, rather than it being an annoying fixture that everyone wonders why they are there for ( like the Indian test team coming here this summer)

6 from Morgan there, what a vital player he is! Trotts doing his Trott thing too.

do eng have the bowling to trouble Ireland here?

Ire were huge in that WC game and we are missing a bunch of the best bowlers in the world.

Trott needs to up the run-rate

Liam_Main wrote:Trott needs to up the run-rate

Trott is not a one day player, Morgan is not a test player.

Funny how things work hey?

tbh i dont think Trott needs to up it much here now as long as he is rotating the strike near enough every ball then picking up 2's etc and the odd boundary, then let Morgan or whoever at the other end hit the bigger runs

hodge, do you fancy joining the IPL league?

Only the Kings XI left...

mentioned before i don't have a great knowledge of indian players out of the international scene so wouldn't be that good for it, would be good at a english county version of a T20 competition

Gregers wrote:

Liam_Main wrote:Trott needs to up the run-rate

Trott is not a one day player, Morgan is not a test player.

Funny how things work hey?

Bit harsh to say Trott is not a One Day player, considering he averages 54+ in ODIs and in more than half his innings he has passed 50. His scoring rate is not great by modern limited over rates, but at just below 80 its decent enough for him to bat at 3 and have others bat around him.

Its his scoring rate that hurts us tho... especially if Morgan/Craig/KP don't stick around...

top work from Bopara

Gregers wrote:Its his scoring rate that hurts us tho... especially if Morgan/Craig/KP don't stick around...

I agree it’s an issue, but not all Number 3s need to be bashing it around at 95 per hundred balls. Ricky Ponting is a world class number 3 in the short for of the game and his strike rate is not much better than Trott’s. Now I am not suggesting that Trott is as good as Ponting in his prime, just that there can be a role for a steady runs accumulator in the 50 over game.

His low rate of scoring especially in his first 30 odd balls is going to put him under pressure as once he has used up those deliveries he really has to go on and contribute a decent score.

Can we have an F word amnesty when used in conjunction with Bopara?

Trott is the ideal foil for someone like Stokes, allowing him to play his natural game and do what he was picked for.

Knives out for Taylor yet?

So far Englands youngsters are having a bad day. Taylor and Stokes both failing to get into double figures.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Knives out for Taylor yet?

Nah. they are all firmly embedded in Bopara.

Not impressive collapse there for England.

What is Bopara doing anywhere near an England side?

Trott is batting himself out of the team here. This is truly awful.

And the les said about Bopara the better. He's had more second chances than a career criminal.

agree about bad day fo rthe youngsters,

how can these boys play so well against sl and then fail against Ireland?

the chance to impress leading to them bottling it? conditions? Ireland actually being a seriously good team now?

simsini wrote:Trott is batting himself out of the team here. This is truly awful.

And the les said about Bopara the better. He's had more second chances than a career criminal.

he gets paid good money to constantly fail, that does verge on criminal

dear god , total collapse.

the depth is not there in ODI's is it.

another shambolic defeat against ireland incoming.

they'll have every right to say they are better than england at cricket

Trott is putting to much pressure on the batter to score quick runs.