England vs Ireland - ODI

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Thought I'd start a discussion thread for this. With many things to debate we should start early!

Firstly the England side:

Eoin Morgan (c)
Chris Woakes
Jonathan Trott
James Taylor
Ben Stokes
Samit Patel
Graeme Onions
Steven Finn
Scott Borthwick
Ravi Bopara
Jade Dernbach
Jonny Bairstow (wk)
Craig Kieswetter (wk)

Ireland Squad:

A Cusack
G Dockrell
D Johnston
N Jones
E Joyce
J Mooney
K O'Brien
N O'Brien (wk)
W Porterfield (c)
W Rankin
P Stirling
A van der Merwe
A White
G Wilson

Seing now that Buttler doesn't really have second season syndrome in terms of his one day batting i think he would make a better choice for a 6/7 for England, paces his innings very well and can hit the ball a long way and innovative with his shots

yeah Trott is a great test player but he just kills us in this form when the rest of the team try to rush it and screw up like this.

ireland have laughed at this second rate performance. they're a league above out there. worrying signs for englands lack of depth in this form.

I've noticed that Trott has only hit one boundary since the 19th over!

Anyone that defends his record is truly clueless.

i think it's time your side took our place as a major side Billy.

Sure you'd have shown us how it's done against India looking at this shambles

Liam_Main wrote:So far Englands youngsters are having a bad day. Taylor and Stokes both failing to get into double figures.

But its a disgrace that these guys didnt go to the woerld cup, I readt that on the internets.
Just liek When Samit Patel was going to save the iuniverse and England were idiots for not taking him to Australia.

hodge wrote:Seing now that Buttler doesn't really have second season syndrome in terms of his one day batting i think he would make a better choice for a 6/7 for England, paces his innings very well and can hit the ball a long way and innovative with his shots

Another player who is better than Buttler at doing exactly what you have described is Jason Roy.

simsini wrote:I've noticed that Trott has only hit one boundary since the 19th over!

Anyone that defends his record is truly clueless.

That will be me then

I dont dare to comment

Wickets falling on relative intervals...

Trott isn't a One-Day player he bats to slow it's a fact. In situations like this he costs us.

Hallelujah, Trott is finally out. Unfortunately it's about 35 overs too late!

While yes Trott has made runs, again its far too slow. Bell or Pieterson to number 3. We can't compete with the big teams at Trott's scoring rate taking up that many balls.

Luckily Woakes and Borthwick can bat otherwise we would be in trouble.

Today's innings was poor, but his record is good. An average of over 50 is class and his strike rate of over 75 isn't terrible.

The one criticism I have of him is he plays out too many dot balls. He really needs to get better at rotating the strike so when he isn't scoring boundaries he doesn't get bogged down.

Possibly it was his shoulder giving him a bit of aggro, but he never looked fully comfortable on this pitch. Deserves to keep his place in the side for now, but he isn't undroppable.

I would give Trott 2 or 3 of the ODIs against India, then rotate him out (no matter how well or otherwise he does) to give Bell a shot at 3 and an out-and-out hitter a go down the order for a game or two, then we can reassess the balance of the side going into the winter.

so 42 overs.. score should have been what 210 to be competitive, given that it's been tricky out there.

definite failure from the youngsters to bat well sadly.

i do recall ireland all out when chasing 170+ in 50 a year or two back but england had first choice bowlers that day. Not sure these kids can do that. Ireland must be huge favourites.

arghh, if we had anderson, bresnan and broad today we'd give these boys a right going over on this surface.

sadly it isn't to be.

Well, England manage to crawl over 200 with some good clean hitting from Woakes and Borthwick, but does that show just how easy it is to hit runs on this pitch?

Our batsman have let our bowlers down, we'll have to go well from here to win this game.

201 isn't disastrous but not brilliant either. Had we had a better start and Trott batted quicker we could of got 250.

without Trott we could have had a serious collapse on our hands and finished 160 odd all out

Great preformance in the field yet again from Ireland. Batting is definitely our weaker suit however and if one of the top 3 or Niall O'Brien doesn't make a big score I think we coukd struggle.

Chaseable

I also think it would be nice to see England Lions play Ireland in a couple of first class games. Maybe 1 in Ireland and 1 in England. Bit late now, but I think it would be an interesting mini-series over a test match summer.

Woakes and Borthwick didnt disgrace themselves at the end there, did their jobs.

ireland done really well, we are gonna have to bowl to well to win this

I don't get why people are knocking Trott, his innings is better than throwing his wicket away and being 150 all out.

Its just a pity noone told Keisswetter and Taylor to throw theirs away more quickly.

hodge wrote:without Trott we could have had a serious collapse on our hands and finished 160 odd all out

You could equally argue that without Trott, we could have rotated the strike better and hit more boundaries, which would not put as much pressure on the younger players later on, resulting in a bigger total.

It isimpossible to predict the score without Trott, as all of the new batsmen would have been batting in different circumstances.

Fists of Fury wrote:I don't get why people are knocking Trott, his innings is better than throwing his wicket away and being 150 all out.

Trott was putting pressure on the other batter to score quick runs resulting in them throwing their wicket away. If he has of batted quicker, less pressure would of been on the other batter resulting in England getting a high-score. 50 dot balls by Trott when he should of been rotating the strike.

ireland, have a decent squad, now we will have to bowl extremely well

Liam_Main wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:I don't get why people are knocking Trott, his innings is better than throwing his wicket away and being 150 all out.

Trott was putting pressure on the other batter to score quick runs resulting in them throwing their wicket away. If he has of batted quicker, less pressure would of been on the other batter resulting in England getting a high-score. 50 dot balls by Trott when he should of been rotating the strike.

Right so if hed got out quicker England wouldnt have a smany runs, and teh other players wouldnt have bene under pressure to score so quickly so would have scored mroe slowly.

Thats one way of looking at it.


The reality is we are just wguessingw hat is or isnt possible on this pitch. But looking at the bowling its niot easy to score well. Aside form the risky 6 from stirling Ireland are struggling to score.

Thats why Trotts in the England side and not Joyce.

eirebilly wrote:Chaseable

How many overs Billy?

win inside 40?

Saw this on the bbc feed:

"England haven't exactly endeared themselves to Cricket Ireland for this game. As well as not bringing their first-choice side, they had also insisted on an early start to produce an early finish - they want to be away by 1800 BST as they've got a flight to catch at 2000. Two of their players [Taylor and Kieswetter] are involved in Twenty20 finals day on Saturday.""


well surely if they want the bigger matches they will accept this? This has been squeezed into a stacked schedule to help them.

Agreed treb. Spot on.

Not sure we'll get a result here.

Due to start at 5, but covers going back on.

Ireland seem to be needing over a hundred more in not too many overs so are probably be saved a cruel defeat there if it just rains through now.

Unless they can produce a run like they did in the WC of course but this isn't a flat track,

they're saing 5:20 start. 23 overs, 129 target.

So 87 in ten with stacks of batsmen left.

Could be fireworks if that Kevin chap gets going again.

Kob looked like he was on for a big one but got done for there.

Next bloke walks on and hits it straight for four.

These Irish boys are strutting, they sense this reduced chase with wickets in hand has given them the match, you can feel it.

eng should have done better with the bat, simple as that.

Dernbache has been battered again.

i do feel that when you get a silly low chase like this then wickets should also be reduced, this is just too easy for them as it's just slog slog slog.

Reminds me of the T20 world cup win for the Windies where they had the same.

Tough win that.

Ireland had every chance with a barrel of wickets in hand and a nice little t20 bash to win.

I loved the wicket that the Irish crowd loudly cheered!! (they thought it was a 6).

I think Billy needs to educate them a bit lol.

Actually a good win for a very experimental Eng side, losing the toss but just having a bunch of second choice bowlers that were just too good.

That was a "win the toss, win the match" day again so to them.

I think if a game is reduced and Duckworth-Lewis comes into play, you play however many overs you can and then extrapolate your score to a 50 over total (using Duckworth-Lewis).

So, if one team sets 250 in 50 overs and it starts raining to set up a 20-over chase, you bat the full 20 overs and then look at what the Duckworth-Lewis par score is chasing 250, taking into account the number of wickets lost.

Obviously, chasing 250 in 50 overs, 80-0 is better than 150-9 after 20 overs, and as ODIs should test you over 50 overs, I think the score more likely to win you a 50 over game should win you a rain effected game. However, in the situation above, the 150-9 would have smashed the Duckworth-Lewis target and the 80-0 would have almost definitely fallen short.

yeah that's fair robbo.

India looking formidable against Sussex. Singh found his form or Sussex just not anywhere near as good as Eng with the bat?

You have to laugh at those thinking it was going to be easy for Ireland. You have to admire the spirit and optimism to the last though.

Seems like Trott made all the difference today. I wouldn't be surprised if his instructions were to just occupy the crease, which he did rather effectively. A strategy that would have backfired against a stronger side.

looks like trott's innings was pivotal to us winning

but you have to ask the question... are ireland playing enough odi's against test nations, and i dont think they are

When they start regulalry beating Zimbabwe and Bangladesh then they will start getting more games against teh significant players

yh but there could be mini tri-series played between ireland, zim and a test nation something like that

just an idea.

Pedant in me wants to point out that Zimbabwe are a test playing nation, as are Bangladesh.
And recently better ones than India


But I get your point, youd like to see major sides other than England play them once in a while outside of the world cup.
They have had two against Paksitan, one against Sri Lanka and one against England since the world cup. Thats a big step up from 2010, they are getting more games against the big sides....it just doesnt make them a good side overnight.

i wasnt impressed with dockrell yesterday, i thought he would have performed better than he did, it says something that a part timer stirling bowled out and dockrell only bowled 4 overs for 24