Is it okay to feign injury?

It's something I've done before, even though I haven't been hurt at all.

It is not a tactic we employ to get the other team in trouble though. But if we're all over the shop, our captain will ask one of the front row to "go down" in a break of play so that he can talk to the team. Is this wrong?

I've also gone down on a scorcher of a day when the referee wasn't letting any water on. Went down with an injury and both teams got a chance to rehydrate. Is that wrong?

At the end of the day I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing, and if the captain asks me to buy him a few minutes to talk to the team I'm still going to do it, regardless of the outcome of this debate, I was just wondering what people thought about it.

For me, yes it is.

Don't get me wrong, I know it goes on, but there are enough natural breaks in play where a captain get a message across to his team.

Just seems against the ethos of the game to me.

Always happened,right or wrong but the water/energy thing is part of modern Rugby.
We are told much better players are in the modern era but stopping for drinks did`nt occur back in amateur days,at least not in matches I watched.

Is it okay to feign injury?

NO.. Not only does it slow the game down it also takes away the advantage that fitter players have.

Feigning injury is wrong. I have been part of teams where if a fella gets a slight knock he goes down and a team gets the chance to re focus and hydrate. I think it's wrong though.

But surely its just play on if a guy goes down injured.

But if it's a front-row going down before a scrum then you have to wait.

True.

It might be okay to feign injury if you get away with it. I've seen it done successfully quite a few times to have a breather and slow the game down, even to give someone else more recovery time.

I did it - once - many years ago in my playing days. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't have been that convincing, and when the game restarted I got some choice words and a thumping for my trouble. Only myself to blame - nobody told me to do it!

optimist was it the wrong colour blood capsule you used

Cymroglan wrote:optimist was it the wrong colour blood capsule you used

Green. Maybe that was what went wrong!

Yes and No.
In thoeory its ungentlemanly and cheating, taking advantage of rules that are their for saftey and generaly against the sprit in which a sport should be played. In reality everyone does it and its perfectly normal, something that players somtimes get frustrated by but recognice they would do the same.
Theres also a very fine line, when does feigning becoming simply not being as tough as you could be and getting on with it?
It does make a mockery of how much of a stink some people kicked up over bllodgate when every game youll see the props taking a break whil they have the magic spray or a cuddle.

Its a good thing in rugby that the game generaly continues play in event of an injury

I've done it tons of times, sometimes because I'm knackerd, once or twice because I'm píssed off we're losing, and just wanted to go to the bar early.
Strangely that old dodgy ankle used to play up on the Saturday we were losing and always before Tuesday night training down the sand dunes.
Luckily I always made the Lazarus like come back for the Saturday game though!

It's surely a question of degree, but how on arth do you judge? Is the fake blood capsule user really worse than the prop who goes down to feign cramp to give his pack a rest? It would be great to have a system that allowed the ref to punish accordingly, but we simply don't - so ultimately no, it's not ok to feign injury, but until you're caught, most will engage in this practice

Not in Rugby though I believe it is compulsory in footie!

sadly true

It's not wrong to if you're doing it to let the captain speak or get water on, but to do it to get another player sent off or something is pathetic and embarrassing

To be honest, i dont like it but i do understand it sometimes.

What i really dont like is if a player deliberately goes down easily to have a fellow player sent off. Its not rife yet bet its starting to enter the game.

I saw (Earls??) in the Ireland-France match waving a fake yellow card in an attempt to have a French player carded. That really peed me off and i hope never to see that again.

Fitzgerald

It's cheating. As is pulling down a scrum, handling in the ruck. They're all different forms of cheating. It's just that some are considered more acceptable than others.

Probably common forms of cheating regarding fake injuries are; props to get uncontested scrums, props to get a subbed prop back on (after a rest), props to slow down the game, blood injuries to get a chance to fix another injury, blood injury to get some back on after being subbed. Some of these probably happen every single game. Others are rarer but no different. It's all cheating.

Obviously it's against the rules, but I'm talking about morally.

It's weird. As a front-rower I've gone off "injured" to bring an already-subbed front row back on when the limit of my injuries have been hurt and tired. Had there been no sub, I probably would have stayed on. I've gone down to buy time in a break in play (but not to deliberately wind down the clock), but I wouldn't go down to force uncontested scrums (maybe because I HATE uncontested scrums!) But if I had been subbed and a prop goes down injured and the coach said to me: "You're not going back on, you're injured." I'd probably accept that and not argue.

I don't know, there is a blurry line between what's acceptable and what's not for me. However, going down to make it look like you got hit or whatever is not something I would do.

If people think it's acceptable then they should change the laws so that a captain can a certain number of timeouts. Until that happens it's still cheating. You can't get high-and-mighty about others cheating if you do it yourself IMO

[that's not a direct response to you Robbo, just a general point]

I suppose there is a fine line between going down on one knee for a minute or 2 and just walking slowly over to the lineout/scrum to get your breath back?

While the idea of faking an injury isnt one I'd like, rugby is a game where you do get knocks which take a few minutes to get over and pausing before a scrum for people to shake those off is part of the game surely?

Out of interest robbo, what team do you play for?

I've also gone down on a scorcher of a day when the referee wasn't letting any water on. Went down with an injury and both teams got a chance to rehydrate. Is that wrong?

Normally I'm not a fan of props dropping like flies to get a rest. In this case then it was perfectly sensible as underhydrated players on a hot day is not good for player safety. Bad reffing.

I saw (Earls??) in the Ireland-France match waving a fake yellow card in an attempt to have a French player carded. That really peed me off and i hope never to see that again..

I think this sort of behaviour (I didn't see the incident, I'm talking in general terms) is disgraceful and the IRB needs to come down very hard on players who do this with bans and fines. I understand the frustration when the ref is being weak and allowing the other team to cynically kill the ball but moaning at the ref and waving imaginary cards about is not what rugby is all about. You get on with it and when the refs not looking give the offending player a little rucking to alter his thinking.

Normally on hot days the referee calls for a water break every 20 minutes so it's not an issue. However this game (it was only a second team game as well) the referee was just not allowing it.

I play for Hove in London 1 South, so not at a particularly high level.

eirebilly wrote:I saw (Earls??) in the Ireland-France match waving a fake yellow card in an attempt to have a French player carded. That really peed me off and i hope never to see that again.

I saw it too. It was Luke Fitzgerald if I remember correctly.

When you are 15-20 years older than most of the other lads on the pitch a little extra breather is most welcome.

Not in rugby. Tie (re-velcro??) your bootlaces, take a piece of non-existent mud from your eye or just loiter but please please please don't let's see the game we love descend to the levels of the sub-childlike antics so beloved of the main actors in the Carling Pantomimeship.

SimonofSurrey wrote:Not in rugby. Tie (re-velcro??) your bootlaces, take a piece of non-existent mud from your eye or just loiter but please please please don't let's see the game we love descend to the levels of the sub-childlike antics so beloved of the main actors in the Carling Pantomimeship.

It's been happening for years, even before professionalism. Mark Sowerby, a former England 7's captain, was frequently told to "Go down Soggy" during Wakefield RFC fixtures.

Go and play for Quins

Its cheating plain and simple

Gatts wrote:Go and play for Quins

Its cheating plain and simple

Grow up.

nottins wrote:

Gatts wrote:Go and play for Quins

Its cheating plain and simple

Grow up.

Apologies for delay in my reply...was faking an injured index finger.

No offence intended and I am not sure why I ought to grow up....I was merely illustrating the fact that on the spectrum of cheating you have prop's taking a knee on one end and fake blood on the other

Calm down all or we'll get the angry red ink of the mods before we know it. My comment above was not to suggest that rugby is whiter than white, simply to say that I hope rugby never goes down the apparently irreversible - and now simply accepted - route of top level soccer, with all its cynical distracting theatrics. Cheating is part of any game, especially professional, but I draw the line at feigning injury to seek a premeditated advantage such as the unfair sanctioning of an opponent.

On which note, one of the most saddening sights for me of recent years on a rugby field was Steve Borthwick, as England captain, brandishing an imaginary yellow card towards a referee during an England game. If the ref had given him a yellow for that I would have led the cheers (PS - I know it's a subjective view with which others may disagree - that's your right - but I have to say it really set my fuses off).

I don't see too much of an issue with a bit of gamesmanship to buy time - as others have said, re-tying a boot or clearing some invisible mud from the eye (or looking for a lost contact lens in my case) are not going to cause too many problems, and the break works for both sides (particularly in the context of getting some water on - bad refereeing, and both captains should have lobbied for that).

Diving to suggest foul play, or rolling round like a Wendyball player are though morally unacceptable, and as for waving imaginary cards... Definitely things the IRB / RFU need to look at in very short order so that they can be stamped out before they become endemic as is the case with professional soccer.

Contact lens mud in eye laces etc there is no need to stop the game in those situations they can all be sorted off the field.

Cymroglan wrote:Contact lens mud in eye laces etc there is no need to stop the game in those situations they call all be sorted off the field.

Even if a scrum is about to take place and the player in question is a prop ?

They get another prop on the game must go on.

It would probably take longer to get the prop on than it would to wait for the current prop to tie his lace, etc.

The best way to get a delay is to have your team give away loads of penalties for the same offense and then ask the ref for a minute to explain it to the team. Worked for England in the past

Cymroglan wrote:They get another prop on the game must go on.

It would take longer to replace the prop.

To true Nottins, props at amateur level don't waste precious energy running.

Have you seen how long they mess about with contacts? A prop is just one position there is no reason that all other positions cant be sorted off the field.
If a prop repeatedly does play for time I'm sure it will be noticed.

Ask Lee Byrne.

He apparently thinks that taking a dive in an international test match is absolutely fine.

The answer to your question is that feigning any injury is unprofessional and is kick in the crackers to every fan who has paid to see sportsmanlike conduct.

I play amateur rugby, if they want sportsmanlike conduct they can start paying me!

I don't do it to get the other team penalised in any way, shape or form.

Deliberately breaking the laws is unsportsmanlike, but I defy anyone to say they've never tried playing the ball on the ground, put a hand in a ruck etc. You don't do these things to con the ref into thinking the other team are cheating, you just do these things to try and buy a slight advantage for your team. That's what I do when I go down and let my captain talk.

Robbo, it's no different to handling in a ruck, and all the other illegal things players do. They're all cheating in one form or another. There seems to be a subject level on what is bad cheating and what is good cheating.