Forget ATG..... how about ATB??

There's a difference between the greatest and best when it comes to the sweet science. The best, aren't always the greatest, and the greatest aren't always the best. All we ever see are ATG lists, but how about an All Time Best list? A ranking of boxers you truly feel are the best (from all eras). Whilst they were in their prime of course...

Or does ranking who you feel are the best make no difference from your ATG list...

Forget if they were revolutionary, drawed the biggest crowds, and redefined boxing. I'm talking pure skill and those who mastered the art. Though it would be hard to say if someone was really the best if they may have had been excellent but never fought the best around them.

Anyways... I'm interested in your ATB list...

Don't really think there's any difference between being the greatest and the best

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Don't really think there's any difference between being the greatest and the best

Well I dont seem to ever see Ray Leonard or Mayweather high in ATG lists..... who for me are the best ever...

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Don't really think there's any difference between being the greatest and the best

He's talking record vs talent.

Well Ray Leonard is usually well within a top ten

Jones Junior would be up there.

I'm confused, the greatest list is defined because there have been instances where several fighters have met in their primes in one division (HWs of the 70s for instance). That those who came off 2nd best are still massively rated in a "greatest" sense.

And it's difficult to categorically say who was "the best" at each weight, to be honest there's not many divisions that you could take one guy and say he was #1 without arguement... which renders the ATB list a bit pointless for me personally.

Why not give us the divisions, we'll vote on our #1 and then we can compile a list from there?

I've got some others:

ATS: All Time Smashables

ATT: All Time Twonks

Some worth mentions for both: Audrey Hepburn, The Olsen Twins, Hitler, Rioters, Ashley Cole, Cheryl Cole (ATT by the way, deserves to be put down)

I see the point you're making in this article, Jay-Z. For instance, Riddick Bowe was a more complete and talented fighter than Wladimir Klitschko and Evander Holyfield, but both of them have racked up achievements which far eclipse Bowe's. I believe that Mayweather is the better talent than Pacquiao, but again I see the latter as having the marginally better career record.

For me, when I think of who was the most complete fighter I've seen on film or in person in terms of being able to do absolutely everything (work behind a jab, genuine knockout power in both fists, good footwork, a tight defence, the ability to box moving both backwards and forwards etc) a few names come to mind, but namely Ray Robinson, Alexis Arguello, Eder Jofre, Ezzard Charles and Carlos Zarate. I'd offer up those five as my all time 'bests' using your criteria.

88Chris05 wrote:I see the point you're making in this article, Jay-Z. For instance, Riddick Bowe was a more complete and talented fighter than Wladimir Klitschko and Evander Holyfield, but both of them have racked up achievements which far eclipse Bowe's. I believe that Mayweather is the better talent than Pacquiao, but again I see the latter as having the marginally better career record.

For me, when I think of who was the most complete fighter I've seen on film or in person in terms of being able to do absolutely everything (work behind a jab, genuine knockout power in both fists, good footwork, a tight defence, the ability to box moving both backwards and forwards etc) a few names come to mind, but namely Ray Robinson, Alexis Arguello, Eder Jofre, Ezzard Charles and Carlos Zarate. I'd offer up those five as my all time 'bests' using your criteria.

Ricardo Lopez.

Lopez is a good shout too, Tino. A very, very complete fighter, could beat his nearest rivals in a number of different ways.

The difficulty arises from differing styles.

Who is the ' best ' among the ( perceived best, ) slugger, swarmer or boxer ? How do we compare the brilliant defensive skills of Locche to the relentless attacking style of Aaron Pryor ? Likewise Pernell Whitaker to Henry Armstrong ?

I can only speak for myself, but I believe I'd find it impossible to definitively say who was the ' best ' in any division, with the possible exception of Robinson at welter and Jofre at bantam. I find it easier with those two because they are, for me, the two greatest all rounders who ever stepped into a ring.

I think I see your point with this. I would say Joe Gans is one of the most complete fighters there has been. Would have loved to see him in an era whereby the talent was stronger and there was no discrimination. I think he has the beating of any lightweight although Duran generally ranks higher by virtue of having better opposition and exploits at other weights.

Joe Louis is another well rounded fighter that I think could potentially have been the best heavyweight in any era.

Then you have the Murderers Row, Burley in particular who could have been so much greater if given the right opportunities.

I would also make special mentions for the likes of Fitzsimmons and Langford who generally lose out in divisional ranking due to lack of specific weight class. In more structured later years they could easily have been top divisional fighters at middleweight or light heavyweight.

coxy0001 wrote:I'm confused, the greatest list is defined because there have been instances where several fighters have met in their primes in one division (HWs of the 70s for instance). That those who came off 2nd best are still massively rated in a "greatest" sense.

And it's difficult to categorically say who was "the best" at each weight, to be honest there's not many divisions that you could take one guy and say he was #1 without arguement... which renders the ATB list a bit pointless for me personally.

Why not give us the divisions, we'll vote on our #1 and then we can compile a list from there?

I've got some others:

ATS: All Time Smashables

ATT: All Time Twonks

Some worth mentions for both: Audrey Hepburn, The Olsen Twins, Hitler, Rioters, Ashley Cole, Cheryl Cole (ATT by the way, deserves to be put down)

Now Audrey Hepburn I agree with, fantastic.

Colonial Lion wrote:

Then you have the Murderers Row, Burley in particular who could have been so much greater if given the right opportunities.

Now your talking, had pretty much everything you could want at welter, unrivalled defensive skills, genuine power and a cast iron jaw, add into that brilliant economy and ring craft and you could not ask for a lot more, Sugar Ray who?

Sugar Ray the world titlist.

Scottrf wrote:Sugar Ray the world titlist.

Wondered how long, you're nothing if not consistent Scott.

Cheers.