England Team for second Wales test...

15. B.Foden
14. C.Ashton
13. M.Tindall (c)
12. S.Hape
11. U.Monye
10. T.Flood
09. J.Simpson

08. N.Easter
07. C.Robshaw
06. T.Wood
05. L.Deacon
04. C.Lawes
03. D.Cole
02. S.Thompson
01. P.Doran-Jones

16. T.Payne (for heaven sake!)
17. L.Mears
18. M.Botha
19. H.Fourie
20. R.Wigglesworth
21. C.Hodgson
22. C.Sharples

Rumour has it this is the squad...

where did you hear this? I've looked on the RFU website and there are no hints...

I make that about 6 players who are first choice for the Argie game...

stronger team than last week, by which i mean probably closer to MJ's first choice. i reckon 8 will start the first rwc game.

I'm quite curious to see how that team goes. At least we can't call MJ conservative if that is what he goes for, I wouldn't have seen some of those choices coming!

But really, Payne on the bench? Please be wrong

But really, Payne on the bench? Please be wrong.

Probabley to cover the fact that we are starting with 2 THs. PDJ can cover both sides but normally plays (almost exclusively for Gloucester) at 3. Sheridan is still injured (shoulder surgery recouperation) and Johnno wants to give everyone a chance. None of the forward replacements are really international standard and if they go will only be third choice back ups.

Payne may also be the most average of average players but well... ok I'm struggling with a positive other than he's consistantly average and experienced. Hope he doesn't make the squad.

could be 10 first choice players there:
Cole
Lawes
Wood
Easter
Flood
Hape
Tindall
Ashton
Foden
Thompson maybe

That bench looks Poopie though, I mean just really really Poopie. Take out Sharples and I wouldn't want any of them coming on if we are in trouble. where's the utility back? What happens if Tindal gets injured (which is likely)

Bench should be:
Stevens
Hartley
Shaw
Haskell
Care
Wilkinson
Armitage

its a weak bench alright. Assuming this team is correct, and it sounds about right since i always expect MJ to make 15 changes from last week, it implies Robshaw is ahead of Fourie - positive; and Monye is ahead of Sharples - negative.

robshaw4england wrote:15. B.Foden
14. C.Ashton
13. M.Tindall (c)
12. S.Hape
11. U.Monye
10. T.Flood
09. J.Simpson

08. N.Easter
07. C.Robshaw
06. T.Wood
05. L.Deacon
04. C.Lawes
03. D.Cole
02. S.Thompson
01. P.Doran-Jones

16. T.Payne (for heaven sake!)
17. L.Mears
18. M.Botha
19. H.Fourie
20. R.Wigglesworth
21. C.Hodgson
22. C.Sharples

Rumour has it this is the squad...

I don't believe you have any particular insight

But I do think the team will look something like the one you have posted. Is Sheridan injured?

He clearly wants to look at everyone then!

A few things surprise me if this is the team:

- Simpson starting (not against it per se, just surprised)
- The bench, except Sharples, isn't exactly full of people who might change the game. Not bad players, but not really a typical bench I don't think.

We had to see Flood, Hape, Tindall, Foden and Ashton before Ireland and so these are expected. Monye/Sharples, clearly one gets a start and the other two bench games to show if their up to it so again, fairly expected.

Moody is injured so Wood is the natural replacement. Easter would want a run out before Ireland and he needs to have a look at Robshaw

Deacon and Lawes both need to show they're fit, and he was unlikely to play both Shaw and Palmer again.

Front row - Again, clearly having a look at those that haven't had time.

I'm just not very excited about this team for some reason. I don't know why.

Definitely a stronger starting line up than last week - 8 or 9 first choice players, plus Thommo and Deacon who are probable bench players in the best XXII.

Will be interesting to see how Robshaw goes at 7, and that he seems to have been given the nod ahead of Fourie in Moody's absence.

As others have said, the bench isn't much cop, but I suspect is players on the periphery of the 30 man squad.

Looks like Johnno is giving as many as possible some playing time before finalising the squad and naming the first choice team (my understanding is that the team for Dublin will be pretty much the strongest we have available).

[quote="Islingtonv2"]its a weak bench alright. Assuming this team is correct, and it sounds about right since i always expect MJ to make 15 changes from last week, it implies Robshaw is ahead of Fourie - positive; and Monye is ahead of Sharples - negative.[/quote]

Really? What do you base that on? Monye's multiple England caps and Lions experience or Sharples hype and 20 min cameo last week?

Monye should be ahead of Sharples, it's up to Sharples to use what ever time he gets to try to take Monyes place.

Here's a question.

The 3 most interesting choices in the starting 15 to me are Monye, Simpson and Robshaw. If they are playing this weekend, what do people think they'd need to do to secure their places in the WC squad?

[quote="yappysnap"]

Islingtonv2 wrote:its a weak bench alright. Assuming this team is correct, and it sounds about right since i always expect MJ to make 15 changes from last week, it implies Robshaw is ahead of Fourie - positive; and Monye is ahead of Sharples - negative.[/quote]

Really? What do you base that on? Monye's multiple England caps and Lions experience or Sharples hype and 20 min cameo last week?

Monye should be ahead of Sharples, it's up to Sharples to use what ever time he gets to try to take Monyes place.

Sharples may be untested but Monye has sat and failed that test too many times surely. we are talking about the 4th winger spot here so in my opinion should be looking to take a wildcard.

I'm not sure whether any of those will go in anything more than a supportive capacity Yappy. Robshaw is behind Croft, Moody, Wood and Haskell. Monye is behind Ashton, Cueto and is in a fight with Sharples to see who goes out there as cover. Simpson is behind Care and Youngs and may well fall behind Wigglesworth as well.

To change their fates they need to show they can make an impact on the international stage. Against Wales that means hammer the opposition half backs, cover tackle well when they go wide and take the fight to the dogged Welsh backrow.

yappysnap wrote:Here's a question.

The 3 most interesting choices in the starting 15 to me are Monye, Simpson and Robshaw. If they are playing this weekend, what do people think they'd need to do to secure their places in the WC squad?

Short of injuries i don't reckon Simpson has much chance, shame because i like him. Moody's injury doubts definately open the door for Robshaw, MJ will look for high work rate, solid basics and hopefully some good link play from him. Monye probably just needs to fall over a couple of times and he's in.

Monye had one bad game for England when played at full back. Before that he was a class winger for both England and the Lions - suggests he can cope with the rigours of international rugby.

Sharples is the new kid on the block, so has to work his way up through the hierarchy - he has already done well to be retained in the squad while JSD and Strettle have been let go, so the coaches muct like somme of what he has shown.

Yappy:
Good question - with regard to Robshaw, I think it depends on Moody's injury, but I think a reasonably competent game will be enough to get him in front of Fourie (not sure if we'll take 5 or 6 back rowers, as I think we'll only take 9 between the 2nd row and back row, to allow for 4 props and 3 hookers).

Simpson - Obviously gets a chance because Youngs is still coming back to fitness. Have seen some discussion about only taking 2 genuine SHs (pluc Foden), which would mean no place for either Simpson or Wiggy. However, he does offer something as a ball carrier, and at a pinch could also cover the outside back positions, so would like to see him included in the squad.

Monye - I'd like to see him go well as he offers a lot through his absolute pace (and should fit well with the expansive game we've tried to play recently). However, his place in the squad rather depends on the balance of the selection - Banahan offers a versatility that Monye doesn't. Can we really afford to go with 2 SHs + Foden, 2 FHs + Flutey, to allow for the inclusion of Tuillagi and Monye / Sharples (whoever comes through the game best)?

screamingaddabs wrote:- The bench, except Sharples, isn't exactly full of people who might change the game. Not bad players, but not really a typical bench I don't think.

Thats been my problem with MJ's squads since he took over. Where is the enterprise?

dummy_half wrote:Monye had one bad game for England when played at full back. Before that he was a class winger for both England and the Lions - suggests he can cope with the rigours of international rugby.

I agree. It's a shame he is defined by the shocker he had at FB, (which was Johnno's fault anyway.)
Monye offers so much in both attack and defence. As you say, he is a Lion too so clearly not that bad!

robshaw4england wrote:15. B.Foden
14. C.Ashton
13. M.Tindall (c)
12. S.Hape
11. U.Monye
10. T.Flood
09. J.Simpson

08. N.Easter
07. C.Robshaw
06. T.Wood
05. L.Deacon
04. C.Lawes
03. D.Cole
02. S.Thompson
01. P.Doran-Jones

16. T.Payne (for heaven sake!)
17. L.Mears
18. M.Botha
19. H.Fourie
20. R.Wigglesworth
21. C.Hodgson
22. C.Sharples

Rumour has it this is the squad...

Pretty close to what I'd choose for this game. Only a couple of changes:

- I'd have PD-J on the bench and start Sheridan, assuming he's fit.
- I'd have Simpson on the bench, and start Youngs, assuming he's fit.
- I'd switch Sharples for Banahan on the bench.

I like the idea of looking at Robshaw and Wood on the flanks, and giving Fourie at least 20 minutes. With Moody now being uncertain, I think MJ needs to really look closely at his options at 7.

I also think that Foden and Ashton should play together as should Youngs and Flood, to give those combinations that worked so well earlier in the year a chance.

The problem for Monye is that he lost his place at an unfortunate time, with the emergence of Foden and Ashton - with both coming in and establishing themselves as first choices very quickly, it was necessary to retain Cueto for his experience and all round footballing skill (OK, he may not set the world alight, but he is a good foil for the other two).

Will be interesting to see how this back 3, indeed the whole back line (recently first choices other than Simpson and Monye) function. Given that we lacked penetration out wide last week, I'd like to see more this time.

I dont think I'll ever forget that tackle on the prop in that game for the Lions - and there was the tackle on Evans in the 6N before the Lions trip. Here is hoping Monye is also back to his best. Monye Foden Ashton is some back 3

Well if this is the team I hope Wales keep most of last weeks players, because England will again be rusty and not match fit!

I'm not sure why everyone always reacts to these match squad predictions, which are based solely on "rumour", as if they're the real deal. The team on Saturday may somewhat resemble this, but I don't see much point in speculating.

On another note: why the hell is Sheridan in there if he's still not fully recovered? How long has he been out for? I know he's been there and done it before, and everyone's really impressed by his lifting stats, but I'd rather have someone like Marler than a half crocked Sheridan.

At the open training session at twickenham. The following are in the yellow bibs, and look like they could be the starting team for the weekend:

Corbisiero, Thompson, Cole, Palmer (4), Lawes (5, oddly), Haskell, Fourie, Easter, Care, Flood, Cueto, Hape, Tindall, Ashton, Foden

Wigglesworth and care swapped the 9 jersey, and Hodgson and Banahan both got time with the yellow side as well.

At the open training session at twickenham. The following are in the yellow bibs, and look like they could be the starting team for the weekend:

Corbisiero, Thompson, Cole, Palmer (4), Lawes (5, oddly), Haskell, Fourie, Easter, Care, Flood, Cueto, Hape, Ashton, Foden

Wigglesworth and care swapped the 9 jersey, and Hodgson and Banahan both got time with the yellow side as well.

See that there's another thread on a similar topic posted since I started writing this earlier. Feel free to merge

I think you missed a centre.

A very settled team now England, after years of rotation and the sense no-one really knew the best XV. I think they're all set for a very strong World Cup. I think they'll be in the mix when it comes right down to it unless they slip up in their group and draw the All Blacks in the quarters.

Fixed, but I seem to have accidentally double posted this, and there's already a thread on the England team today, so waiting for this to be merged

Tomathy, is it this one you want them both merged to? https://www.606v2.com/t11204-england-team-for-second-wales-test#352898

If not can you post up an alternate link

Kiwireddevil wrote:Tomathy, is it this one you want them both merged to? https://www.606v2.com/t11204-england-team-for-second-wales-test#352898

If not can you post up an alternate link

That's the one

Wow! Your sources only got a third of the team wrong!