The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

Haven't had the wireless on today prop, what were they saying on R2?

prop_lyd wrote:Yeah it can be Stag, but also it annoys me so much at how people wear 'blinkers' and anyone who was listening to radio 2 earlier basically my whole office were shouting at some people on there!

You can include this guy in the riots too

Spoiler:

What were they saying?

Well I don't really want to get into the politics again but basically it was people on their high horse who don't understand some of the things that these young people lack in their lives and the influences they have.

One woman had a go saying that it was due to their parents and they haven;'t been taught how to speak properly....not to put them all under one umbrella but it's likely quite a few didn't have a positive/any parental influence and how does it matter how you speak?

That's just one but there were many more!

Anyways...what is this link where everyone's saying they'd be ghandi etc etc?

Prop I tried to point out earlier that there are complex social problems at play behind this but it didn't go down to well so I went to the off topic section.

Unfortunately they only seemed concerned with shooting the rioters in the head so I decided I'd give the conversation a miss.

Any updates on the riots, have they calmed down?

Page 16. Pete posted it at about 10am this morning. Can't find it myself at the moment.

All, just to change the subject to something a bit more positive https://www.606v2.com/t11217-606v2-charity-john-hartson-foundation#353545

roddersm wrote:Prop I tried to point out earlier that there are complex social problems at play behind this but it didn't go down to well so I went to the off topic section.

Unfortunately they only seemed concerned with shooting the rioters in the head so I decided I'd give the conversation a miss.

Any updates on the riots, have they calmed down?

No they haven't rodders, they were starting up again today in various locations in London since about 1400 hours, it is going to be another long night on the streets I suspect.

I got
Economic Left/Right: -4.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.28
And am apparently libertarian.

LDCPete wrote:
No they haven't rodders, they were starting up again today in various locations in London since about 1400 hours, it is going to be another long night on the streets I suspect.

Bollix. I hope anyone living near these riots stays safe .

People who work in Birmignham and Wolverhampton city centres were apparetly told to go home at about 3pm, don't think there's anything confirmed on that though, but they are expecting trouble.

roddersm wrote:

LDCPete wrote:
No they haven't rodders, they were starting up again today in various locations in London since about 1400 hours, it is going to be another long night on the streets I suspect.

Bollix. I hope anyone living near these riots stays safe .

I'll echo that. I'm also half expecting Cardiff to be hit soon esepcially if those involved cotton onto the places which are sending Police to help the Met out fingers crossed they don't and all of this stupidity fizzles out quickly and with no more harm.

Britains darkest hour?

Lefties the lot of you. Reckon in future me and Glas should just sit in the corner and moan about Europe.

I don't think Cardiff will get involved, at least I really hope not. Been nothing on Welsh news and everything was calm around Canton/Riverside at lunch time anyway.

I've seen some crazy riots over here over the years 1st hand so I know it's scary and frustrating. This seems to be something else altogether and it's hard to see it being resolved any time soon.

Apparently the BBC Television Centre (Shepherds Bush) has just been evacuated and they are telling people to leave the area. That's not a good sign. I think Hughie lives over that way.

roddersm wrote:I've seen some crazy riots over here over the years 1st hand so I know it's scary and frustrating. This seems to be something else altogether and it's hard to see it being resolved any time soon.

It's different for us though Rodders. What's happening now is new territory.

WillyGilly wrote:
It's different for us though Rodders. What's happening now is new territory.

I know Willy, well not new because it happened in the 80's I think. I just know how scary it is to be caught up in riots like this and can empathise with the fear and anger that people have.

I realise this is something else entirely in terms of it's scale.

Listening to the radio and some appalling stories coming out. One person has already died. People are talking about going down to defend their property with weapons. Controversial but I'm fully behind it. An englishman's house is his castle and if some spotty testosterone fueled 16 year old with a can of special brew in his hand tries to break in he gets what he deserves.

Its almost like a movement more than a riot.

Croydon now being evacuated again.

rugbydreamer wrote:People who work in Birmignham and Wolverhampton city centres were apparetly told to go home at about 3pm, don't think there's anything confirmed on that though, but they are expecting trouble.

Someone I know was sent home from Birmingham at around 16:00.

It's funny that you lefties all have negative scores.

Glas a du wrote:It's funny that you lefties all have negative scores.

rugbydreamer wrote:I don't think Cardiff will get involved...

You don't remember the Ely riots in the '90s? That was started over a row about selling bread would you believe. There was trouble around the rest of the country at the time too. Someone in work said there was trouble in Grangetown but I think they were taking the pish.

I've been running a post on the international ru section about the threat to Saturday's MS game.

Loads of posters just see the funny side. I think that tonight is the night that it's really important to quell stuff.

The Emergency powers set into legislation in WWII lie dusty but pretty much dormant but most importantly unrepealed. Maybe PC Pete can summarise?

http://www.asylum.co.uk/2011/08/09/real-madrid-video-109-chinese-kids/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook

Something a little lighter.

red_stag wrote:Its almost like a movement more than a riot.

They police by consent to a certain extent. Now that people have seen that police are powerless to stop this, it's just going to spread. The law is meaningless if it can't be enforced. Rather being afraid of policemen, the rioters believe they are now in control of the situation. There is a sense that they are beyond control if they have strength in numbers.

I think that there are a lot of issues here. There are some people who are rioting because of perceived race relations issues with the police, a hatred of an establishment that they feel doesn't represent them or sympathise with them, there are some people rioting because now it offers an opportunity to loot and steal.

There is genuine frustration at the economic and social realities of life in these places and just sheer criminality cheek-by-jowl, and I feel the response of the left wing has been to over-focus on the former and the right wing to over-focus on the later. The full picture is both are true to an extent.

But you know what they say; when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. The factors that have led to these riots are so deeply ingrained in our society and have been for a long time. Serious deep lying social problems exist within Britian that remain unresolved. My biggest concern is that there has been very little attempt to understand the reasons behind these riots. How will the underlying issues ever be resolved?

The kids involved have most likely be demonised as degenerate before this kicked off. There's such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

red_stag wrote:Its almost like a movement more than a riot.

But there's no ideology behind what we're seeing. It's not even as if they're anarchists.

Cari I was in primary school in the 90's, the only major news thing I recall from then is the Sea Empress disaster and the death of Princess Diana. They were talking about the Ely riots at work today though so know a bit about it now, had never heard of it before though. Can't believe it all started over some bread!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

red_stag wrote:Its almost like a movement more than a riot.

But there's no ideology behind what we're seeing. It's not even as if they're anarchists.

It might no be an ideology studied in education but doesn't mean it's not some sort of ideology.

Notch wrote:

My biggest concern is that there has been very little attempt to understand the reasons behind these riots. How will the underlying issues ever be resolved?

They won't. We had riots in the late '70s/early '80s and again in the '90s - up and down the country. Obviously history hasn't taught anyone anything.

MBTGOG wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

red_stag wrote:Its almost like a movement more than a riot.

But there's no ideology behind what we're seeing. It's not even as if they're anarchists.

It might no be an ideology studied in education but doesn't mean it's not some sort of ideology.

More of a furious lashing out against the world than a result of a studied ideology.

There may be a lot of underlying factors as to why a lot of the youths are doing what they're doing (none of which are ever going to provide a good enough reason for this),

But then you come across the story of a man injured in the riots, sitting there bleeding, a youth involved apparently stops to help and pick him up, the youth's friend then goes behind him and nicks stuff out of the man's bag, they put him back on the floor, laugh and run off.

That's just sick.

Indeed. There's a vicious streak in every human and it doesn't take much to see it come to the fore.

Dreamer - the press love stories like that. Shame really. They don't tell everyone about the thousands of people who've been organising clean up operations through Twitter and Facebook off their own backs or helping each other out within the communities involved.

Notch wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

red_stag wrote:Its almost like a movement more than a riot.

But there's no ideology behind what we're seeing. It's not even as if they're anarchists.

It might no be an ideology studied in education but doesn't mean it's not some sort of ideology.

More of a furious lashing out against the world than a result of a studied ideology.

Might not be thoroughly studied (might be after this) but still doesn't mean it's hidden in there somewhere.

I've heard loads about the clean up efforts, Radio 2 have been giving regular updates about that. What I'm saying is that for every youth who might be doing this for an actual reason, you get one that is just doing it because they can and who just don't give a damn

I don't condone violence myself, I don't think it's an answer for anything, and for all those who were actually trying to make a point they're just going to be lumped together with those who are just wantonly commiting crime. All that's going to happen is that things are going to get worse for them. It's just so stupid and horrible to see.

rugbydreamer wrote:I've heard loads about the clean up efforts, Radio 2 have been giving regular updates about that. What I'm saying is that for every youth who might be doing this for an actual reason, you get one that is just doing it because they can and who just don't give a damn

I don't condone violence myself, I don't think it's an answer for anything, and for all those who were actually trying to make a point they're just going to be lumped together with those who are just wantonly commiting crime. All that's going to happen is that things are going to get worse for them. It's just so stupid and horrible to see.

True. Always happens. I wonder are any of these youths the same ones that got involved in the student riots?

Cari wrote:Dreamer - the press love stories like that. Shame really. They don't tell everyone about the thousands of people who've been organising clean up operations through Twitter and Facebook off their own backs or helping each other out within the communities involved.

To be fair, they mentioned it on Sky News but it's the bad stories people remember.

We're almost at 990 posts, I'll set up a new pub in a sec.

New Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t11223-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub#353838