Boxer beats puncher, puncher beats swarmer, swarmer beats boxer

It's a common saying in boxing, styles make fights. The saying in the title seems to be the general theme. Does anyone have examples of this triangle?

Have:

Cotto beats Mosley (boxer beats puncher)
Mosley beats Margarito (puncher beats swarmer)
Margarito beats Cotto (swarmer beats boxer)

Forrest beats Mosley
Mosley beats Mayorga
Mayorga beats Forrest

Leonard beats Hearns
Hearns beats Duran
Duran beats Leonard

Wright beats Mosley
Mosley beats Vargas
Vargas beats Wright

Ali beats Foreman
Foreman beats Frazier (Norton)
Frazier (Norton) beats Ali

Yes.

Martinez-Williams-Margarito.

Duran-Barkley-Hearns

BALTIMORA wrote:Martinez-Williams-Margarito.

Roles? I'd say Martinez is a boxer-puncher, Williams and Margarito are swarmers.

Maybe it disproved the rule then.

Gets you thinking. Pacquiao beats hatton, hat ton beats malignaggi, malignaggi beats pacquiao? Probably get ridiculed for that but I see the tools in malignaggi.

I can safely say that this rule wouldn't apply on that one, Sean

Hang on...Oscar beat Sturm, Sturm beat Macklin...so does Macklin beat Oscar (by a highly controversial decision)?

Fists of Fury wrote:I can safely say that this rule wouldn't apply on that one, Sean

I just think malignaggi has the speed and chin to cope with pacquiao's power. If he could replicate pacquiao's work rate I don't see why it couldn't be close on points.

Michaels, Sean wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:I can safely say that this rule wouldn't apply on that one, Sean

I just think malignaggi has the speed and chin to cope with pacquiao's power. If he could replicate pacquiao's work rate I don't see why it couldn't be close on points.

Pacquaio would have absolutely no fear of what was coming back though, which would result in him walking through Paulie and breaking him down badly with those stinging flurries. If Hatton and Khan can stop him, then Manny does it in double quick time, for me.

I don't buy into this theory. Yes Duran beat Leonard, but Leonard comfortably beat him in the rematch.

It is hard to give fighters a particular role. Hearns is a puncher, but he was also an awesome boxer. Same with SRL. Fabulous boxer who Hearns outboxed for large periods. It was his power that won him the fight.

Also, Manny kills Paulie in 3 brutal rounds. Must be on the wind up, Sean?

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I don't buy into this theory. Yes Duran beat Leonard, but Leonard comfortably beat him in the rematch.

It is hard to give fighters a particular role. Hearns is a puncher, but he was also an awesome boxer. Same with SRL. Fabulous boxer who Hearns outboxed for large periods. It was his power that won him the fight.

Also, Manny kills Paulie in 3 brutal rounds. Must be on the wind up, Sean?

Things have to be taken into account though Jack. Leonard forced through the rematch with Duran in rapid time, right as he knew Duran was in the middle of full blown party mode. Duran's people accepted the fight because of the money, but in reality it should have been held off in order for Duran to get back into shape properly prior to his training camp. That is a debate for another day, however.

Agreed about Manny, he would brutalise Paulie, it'd be horrific to watch.

Fists of Fury wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I don't buy into this theory. Yes Duran beat Leonard, but Leonard comfortably beat him in the rematch.

It is hard to give fighters a particular role. Hearns is a puncher, but he was also an awesome boxer. Same with SRL. Fabulous boxer who Hearns outboxed for large periods. It was his power that won him the fight.

Also, Manny kills Paulie in 3 brutal rounds. Must be on the wind up, Sean?

Things have to be taken into account though Jack. Leonard forced through the rematch with Duran in rapid time, right as he knew Duran was in the middle of full blown party mode. Duran's people accepted the fight because of the money, but in reality it should have been held off in order for Duran to get back into shape properly prior to his training camp. That is a debate for another day, however.

Agreed about Manny, he would brutalise Paulie, it'd be horrific to watch.

Yes, but you could also use the argument that Leonard fought the wrong fight first time round. For me, the better boxer will win, regardless of his style.

Hmmmmm very interesting analogy. Ali did ofcourse beat Frazier twice though to Frazier's one win.

Question to the forum - What category does Pacman fit in to? Swarmer or puncher? This may tell us who would win in a Pacman V Money fight.....

jammin wrote:Hmmmmm very interesting analogy. Ali did ofcourse beat Frazier twice though to Frazier's one win.

Question to the forum - What category does Pacman fit in to? Swarmer or puncher? This may tell us who would win in a Pacman V Money fight.....

Dunno...

Michaels, Sean wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:I can safely say that this rule wouldn't apply on that one, Sean

I just think malignaggi has the speed and chin to cope with pacquiao's power. If he could replicate pacquiao's work rate I don't see why it couldn't be close on points.

Thats just a joke right?!!?!

jammin wrote:Hmmmmm very interesting analogy. Ali did ofcourse beat Frazier twice though to Frazier's one win.

Question to the forum - What category does Pacman fit in to? Swarmer or puncher? This may tell us who would win in a Pacman V Money fight.....

Swarmer, however for my money this fight (if it happens) will happen too late. The time for this fight was after Pacquaio Cotto / Mayweather Marquez. A swarmer with no legs left won't do much good swarming, and likewise a counter puncher with no speed left won't defend too well. Not really interested in this fight any more, well, not as interested as I once was.

Styles do play a massive part in fights and the better boxer does not necessarily always win.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Styles do play a massive part in fights and the better boxer does not necessarily always win.

So Paulie beats Manny, maybe by KO?

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Styles do play a massive part in fights and the better boxer does not necessarily always win.

So Paulie beats Manny, maybe by KO?

To an extent obviously, no need to be facetious.

No but how do you explain Margarito/Cotto/Mosley if the better boxer always wins. Ali struggled against Frazier because of his style more than his boxing ability.

He said the better boxer doesn't always win, mate.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:No but how do you explain Margarito/Cotto/Mosley if the better boxer always wins. Ali struggled against Frazier because of his style more than his boxing ability.

I think Marg had loaded gloves to beat Cotto, and that Cotto is better than Mosely (at the time) and Mosely has always been better than Marg.

So without the loaded gloves the best fighter would always win, in my opinion.

Fists of Fury wrote:He said the better boxer doesn't always win, mate.

Oops, my mistake, it was you that said that! I'm with you Ghosty, the better boxer doesn't always win, at all. Some may say Degale is a better boxer than Groves..yet he lost.

All things being equal, the better boxer should win, however a big part of boxing is making your opponent fight to your tune, so to speak. That is almost as much of a skill as having the pure boxing fundamentals.

Taylor/Pavlik/Hopkins

Never bought into the loaded rubbish surrounding the Cotto fight, if you have loaded gloves the last thing you do is take off your gloves and shake your opponents hand.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Taylor/Pavlik/Hopkins

Never bought into the loaded rubbish surrounding the Cotto fight, if you have loaded gloves the last thing you do is take off your gloves and shake your opponents hand.

That is the first thing I would do. Nobody would be suspicous.

When I say the best boxer will always win, I mean the best man, not his style.

As for Taylor/Pavlik/Hoppo. I thought Hoppo won all 3 fights.

Makes perfect sense, here you go Miguel touch my hands that are covered in plaster, makes no sense and until proven otherwise it has to be taken as a legitimate win.

Style plays a massive part in who the best man will be.

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Martinez-Williams-Margarito.

Roles? I'd say Martinez is a boxer-puncher, Williams and Margarito are swarmers.

Williams as a swarmer? I'd say more as a boxer.

Williams is definitely a swarmer, favours quantity over quality, has no jab and not the best defence in the world.

Dazstarr wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Martinez-Williams-Margarito.

Roles? I'd say Martinez is a boxer-puncher, Williams and Margarito are swarmers.

Williams as a swarmer? I'd say more as a boxer.

Well, he's a volume puncher who pressures. He forces the fight, fights on the inside, I'd say a swarmer.

Hairy muff, thanks for clearing that up.

Scottrf wrote:

jammin wrote:Hmmmmm very interesting analogy. Ali did ofcourse beat Frazier twice though to Frazier's one win.

Question to the forum - What category does Pacman fit in to? Swarmer or puncher? This may tell us who would win in a Pacman V Money fight.....

Dunno...

That's a conversation killer....

styles no doubt have a massive effect on fights and it does mean that the better boxer doesn't always win. However you get variables in this, with some great fighters that are able to adapt to these type of fighters and almost evolve in the ring, also there are many variables about most of the boxers mentioned, some have qualities that you wouldn't expect in these categories, such as Mosley, while you may class him as a puncher he was always a good boxer who understood the game very well not just a big hitter.

Calzaghe, swarmed or boxer

Swoxer.

Calzaghe is one of those variables that I was talking about, like he is a swarmer but possessed great boxing ability and makes him extremely difficult to beat.

Wright beats Mosley
Mosley beats Vargas
Vargas beats Wright

just change mosley for trinidad and you have another triangle

zx1234 wrote:Wright beats Mosley
Mosley beats Vargas
Vargas beats Wright

just change mosley for trinidad and you have another triangle

Wright was a huge southpaw against Mosley, Vargas was shot against Mosley, and Wright was robbed against Vargas.

I had Mosley beating Cotto aswell.

maidana puncher, khan boxer, ortiz swarmer?

if you could class ortiz as a swamer instead of a boxer then it could hold true, if you fancy him over khan