606v2 picks the Irish RWC squad: BACKROW

Afternoon all.

I have seen the Welsh and English have already started these kinda articles and it did seem like a good idea to try and have them all together.
So the series will determine who will be the Irish RWC squad according to the 606v2 community.

I will try and post up the next part of the series every weekday morning so we all have plenty of time to debate each position. Obviously everyone has their own opinions but try and keep a level head and back up your points with examples or clips or something.

I am going to go for a 16/14 split between the backs and forwards.
4 props
3 hookers
3 locks
6 backrow (1 able to play lock)
3 scrumhalves
2 flyhalves
3 centres (1 able to play flyhalf)
6 back 3

This is Kidney's 43 man squad.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/23313.php

So far the Squad is:
Healy, Ross, Buckley and Court
Best, Cronin and Flannery
O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Cullen

Loads of options here so here it goes...

O'Brien- HCup player of the year, can play 6,7 and 8 to a high standard. Best ball carrier in Ireland. Underrated defender and ball winner. great offload skills and quite quick.
Wallace- Great ball carrier, can cover 6 and 8 if really needed. Experienced. Great defender also.
Ferris- Injured for the last number of months, fit again. Very strong, great tackler and rucker. Pacey, explosive and best lineout option after McLaughlin and Ryan.
Ryan- Versatile (can play 6 and lock). Athletic and aggressive. In good form recently and good option in the lineout.
McLaughlin- Good in the lineout, on opposition ball in particular. Form started to dip late in the season. Can play lock if very necessary.
McCarthy- Very versatile. Can play 4-8. Fair ball carrier and good in the air. Inexperienced on the big stages.
Jennings- The only traditional 7 we have and has been in good form most of the year. A leader and experienced in big games.
Heaslip- Very athletic. Great defender and very accomplished on the floor. Good lineout option. Experienced, a leader and a ball carrier. Great link man also.
Leamy-Versatile across the backrow if required, most comfortable at 6 and 8. Poor discipline. Good lineout option and defender. Not in good form. A leader also.

NB: There are 6 backrow places but one of the spots must go to a player who can also play lock.

Keep it clean gentlemen

Fairly straightforward so far. Everyone has gone for Ryan, Jennings, Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace, O'Brien.

I've gone for Ryan as the utility 2nd row/backrow.
And also Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, O'Brien and Jennings.

IMO McLaughlin loses out to Ryan based on form, and the fact that McLaughlin doesn't cover 2nd row as well as Ryan does.

Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip and O'Brien are definites. Assuming Ferris is fit of course. I've gone for Jennings ahead of the others given that he offers something different, is a vital cog in the brilliant Leinster backrow and he's the only one out of that lot who could cover an injury to Wallace.

As for who'll start? Not a clue.

red_stag wrote:Fairly straightforward so far. Everyone has gone for Ryan, Jennings, Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace, O'Brien.

The same. I've actually gone for everyone who has been picked so far. This unanimity cannot last.

I predict a lot more dissent when we reach the centres and back three.

Scrumhalf will be funny too.

MMC wrote:I've gone for Ryan as the utility 2nd row/backrow.
And also Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, O'Brien and Jennings.

IMO McLaughlin loses out to Ryan based on form, and the fact that McLaughlin doesn't cover 2nd row as well as Ryan does.

Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip and O'Brien are definites. Assuming Ferris is fit of course. I've gone for Jennings ahead of the others given that he offers something different, is a vital cog in the brilliant Leinster backrow and he's the only one out of that lot who could cover an injury to Wallace.

As for who'll start? Not a clue.

+1

Well gents if people don't start arguing on the 6 picked we'll move on to who will start.

EVERYONE: I think I am going to do a follow up series once we have our 30 to see who you would consider our best XV

I think Leamy is the one to lose out the most, he deserves to lose out but it will be hardest on him. Jennings does offer something Leamy does not however and maybe we will find ourselves in need of Jenning's service.

Do we have an old 606 mystery 1* voter in our midst??? Choosing the options he thinks would be least worthwhile?

Oh I think we do gentlemen

Scrumhalf will be hilarious. Sin É will be all over that one. 8)

Is it just me or are others slightly worried about the number of injured players we're very likely going to be bringing along?

Take the squad so far:
Buckley - recovering from shoulder surgery.
Flannery - long term injury.
Ferris - long term injury.
Jennings - recently broken arm.

Then the likelies:
TOL (maybe) - recovering from back injury
D'Arcy - recovering from ankle surgery
Kearney - long term injury worry.


You could add Trimble and Paddy Wallace to that list too, albeit with broken thumbs (which are now healed).

That's 9 of the 30. And that doesn't even begin to take into account the injuries and knocks we're almost sure to pick up in the warm up games. It's really going to test our (lack of?) strength in depth.

Usual 6 for me. Ferris, Heaslip, Wally, SOB, Jennings and Ryan.

In terms of who starts Ferris and Heaslip start for me (form and fitness permitting in the formers case) with SOB, Jennings and Wally looking after the other spot. I can see the merit in having Jennings but against OZ the issue will be removing Pocock when we are on offense more than anything else. As such Wally or SOB for me

I would take Hayes over Buckley. Regarding Ferris and Flannery, if they recover fitness and form the payoff for bringing those guys could be huge. Less so for TOL

I think the two broken thumbs will be alright, because it doesn't interfere with pre-season fitness. What's concerning is that Flannery, Ferris and Kearney are only just getting back to full running.

But all three are now back to that, just in time, so we'll see in August.

Yeah Stag that is a very high precentage isn't it. Bit of a scary thought.

So who do people consider out best 3 backrow and bench player?

Please think of balance in particular when deciding?

6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

19. O'Brien

The ultimate impact player on the bench- you shouldn't see his role as being any less important than the starters and he'll play the majority of the second-half.

pete

Depends on the opposition i suspect but i do really want to see Ferris, SOB and Heaslip in tandem at some stage before the RWC. At the minute i would keep the same as the England game but if Ferris can demonstrate form and fitness in the autumn i would swap him and SOB at present

I think a lot of people think of Heaslip as a must and if Ferris is fit and on form he joins Heaslip in that bracket. Especially in light of ferris' reputation at rucking.

Really it comes down to SOB or Wally at 7 if Ferris is fit on form I hasten to repeat.

Personally I want to see Feris-SOB-Heaslip if that combo works in the warm up games I think this is the set up that will do us the most good. SOB will need a bit more time to climatise to playing 7 at international level

Heaslip at 8 and any combo of O'Brien, Ferris, Wallace at flankers and I'll be happy.

I think Ferris is important also for the lineout just Wallace isn't used by Ireland that often and SOB is quite short although does do well there for Leinster when used.

Ferris and Heaslip in the backrow mean we have 4 fairly strong options

I also agree on
Ryan, Jennings, Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace, O'Brien.


However the deabte will be who starts at 6, O'brien or Ferris

For me I'd play O'Brien for 60 mins and Ferris 20 mins (his match fitnees won't be the same as SOB's) weither it's the first 20 to soften them up (and in case of early injury having SoB to come on) or last 20, to put in hits in when the opposition are tired (but if gets injuried no SoB to replace him) is the big decision, but thats for the final article

Kingshu-

Do you think Wallace at 7 is set in stone then or could we see a Ferris-SOB-Heaslip combonation?

Strange that when Heaslip was injured, there was plenty of talk about him not getting the 8 jersey back and that SOB would be 8 with Wallace and Ferris. Didn't take Heaslip long to remind everyone how good he is. I think Ferris returning will be similar. A guaranteed starter if fit. Wallace gets the nod over Jennings for me and SOB is better impact off the bench. Jennings to play the quinlan role in this world cup I think.

Oh, and if everyone is fit then centres will pick themselves if we can only take 3 and 1 has to be able to cover flyhalf. It isn't really a debate.

Ireland have a backrow player who is a great carrier, runs great lines with the pace of a centre, is usually on someone's shoulder looking for an offload and has a great leg drive... hang on, they've two - Wallace and O'Brien. IMO these two are the closest like for like players in the whole squad, so I can't understand how anyone considers Jennings as a replacement for either?

Heaslip is the best ball playing backrower we have. He has to start on current form imo.

The squad is stragihtforward enough.It's who starts and where is the difficulty. For me,it's SOB,Wallace and Heaslip. Ferris is a magnificent player but unless he proves he is fit enough to play 80 minutes then starting him probably isn't the best option. However I would have no problem with him starting if he shows he is up to it. On the bench,you would have Ferris at the moment. There is the option of Ferris,SOB and Heaslip but then we don't really have any fellas at the breakdown(Wallace is a decent enough player at the breakdown). Jennings will make the squad and could play against Russia or the US but I don't think he will make the bench as he doesn't seem like an impact player. Ryan will provide cover for lock/backrow and has a good chance of making the bench due to his versatility.

Thomond wrote: Jennings will make the squad and could play against Russia or the US but I don't think he will make the bench as he doesn't seem like an impact player.

Though good impact in HEC Final

No doubt he did good when he came on Stag,but McLaughlin was so poor,any sort of performance would have had a big impact.

Thomond wrote:The squad is stragihtforward enough.It's who starts and where is the difficulty. For me,it's SOB,Wallace and Heaslip. Ferris is a magnificent player but unless he proves he is fit enough to play 80 minutes then starting him probably isn't the best option. However I would have no problem with him starting if he shows he is up to it. On the bench,you would have Ferris at the moment. There is the option of Ferris,SOB and Heaslip but then we don't really have any fellas at the breakdown(Wallace is a decent enough player at the breakdown). Jennings will make the squad and could play against Russia or the US but I don't think he will make the bench as he doesn't seem like an impact player. Ryan will provide cover for lock/backrow and has a good chance of making the bench due to his versatility.

I would argue Ferris is as good as Wally on the ground. Where Wally comes into his own it stripping the ball in the tackle a la against Easter at the Aviva. Its a trade off. No one of the four options is weak defensively but Ferris is a beast defensively and will stop momentum of attacks dead more often than not. That being said i agree the onus is on him to prove his fitness. I believe he has started back to 'on pitch' training (according to Ulster anyway)

it depends pete, are we suggesting who we'd pick, or who we think Dk will pick

If DK picks Wallace is set in stone

If my pick I'd try a Ferris, Heaslip,SOB in the warm ups, and then if decide which way to start, and if Wallace starts i could could move SOB over after 60 mins and bring Ferris on.

Warm ups will tell a lot

I have the usual 6. If Ferris doesn't make it, who is your choice?

its basically between Leamy and McLaughlin.

Mine is McLaughlin.

Stand,at the moment SOB is in poll position. He has had a very good season and Kidney won't want to tinker with his team too much.I would love to see Ferris start possibly ahead of SOB but I'm not sure if he is up to it.

I think someone posted an article here before which was an interview with Richard Hill. He said the most important thing for a back row trio is that as a combination they have the required set of skills. You don't necessarily need one individual who is an out an out fetcher, one individual who is an out an out ball carrier etc. etc. The other important factor is that they are familiar with each others game.

The Leinster trio of O'Brien, Jennings, Heaslip are obviously familiar with each other. They were great in the Heineken Cup and I think they'd have more than enough to deal with Italy. For the Australia game we need the proven test match big guns. Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace. They're from three different provinces but they've played together for Ireland a lot. They've won a Grand Slam as the first choice back row. Ferris offers his huge strength for counter rucking. Heaslip is very good at winning turnovers and Wallace is an all rounder with vast experience. All three are all rounders actually. And between them, they can compensate for the loss of O'Brien's brilliant ball carrying.

I think I'd use Ferris sparingly though. O'Brien should get plenty of game time at blindside. Or even at number eight if Heaslip needs to be rested against one of the minnows. For lock/flanker spot it's between McLaughlin and Ryan. Either would do a good job. I'd go for McLaughlin since he's a very good back rower who's also particularly good in the lineout. I'd be perfectly happy with Ryan also. My picks would be Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, O'Brien, Jennings, McLaughlin.

the-goon wrote:I have the usual 6. If Ferris doesn't make it, who is your choice?

its basically between Leamy and McLaughlin.

Mine is McLaughlin.

Really? Neither are playing great. Leamy has bags more experience and I think covers positions we would need more than McLaughlin who is just second row/blindside

Standulstermen wrote:

Thomond wrote:The squad is stragihtforward enough.It's who starts and where is the difficulty. For me,it's SOB,Wallace and Heaslip. Ferris is a magnificent player but unless he proves he is fit enough to play 80 minutes then starting him probably isn't the best option. However I would have no problem with him starting if he shows he is up to it. On the bench,you would have Ferris at the moment. There is the option of Ferris,SOB and Heaslip but then we don't really have any fellas at the breakdown(Wallace is a decent enough player at the breakdown). Jennings will make the squad and could play against Russia or the US but I don't think he will make the bench as he doesn't seem like an impact player. Ryan will provide cover for lock/backrow and has a good chance of making the bench due to his versatility.

I would argue Ferris is as good as Wally on the ground. Where Wally comes into his own it stripping the ball in the tackle a la against Easter at the Aviva. Its a trade off. No one of the four options is weak defensively but Ferris is a beast defensively and will stop momentum of attacks dead more often than not. That being said i agree the onus is on him to prove his fitness. I believe he has started back to 'on pitch' training (according to Ulster anyway)

According to many here on 606 Ferris is the best defender and rucker of the 4 super backrow players we have.
Heaslip is VERY good on the floor too I may add. Wins a lot of ball there and doesn't get penalised too often.

SOB is the best ball carrier we have and him coming on after 50/55 mins against lads who are tired could well be a crucial strategy for us. He probably has the most impact of the 4. I'd fancy him running at guys and getting through even more so if they were tired.

I think if ferris didn't make it I'd have to choose Leamy, I wouldn't want to pick him over McLaughlin but would have to. if Ryan becamse injured then I'd go mcLaughlin however or possibly even MOD or Tuohy.

Thomond

Yep the onus is most definately on Fez. That being said if he recovers his pre injury form he is (almost) too good to leave out. Despite SOB's brilliance i still maintain the best performance i have seen from a 6 in Europe this season was Ferris against Bath at Ravenhill

Don't forget if you pick Leamy we have centre cover for BOD. He played there at least once for Munster.

McLaughlin has also played 8 but not as much or to the level as Leamy. However McLaughlin adds lineout skills that Leamy could only dream of.

I'm not so sure what Wallace offers that Heaslip, SOB and Ferris would be lacking tbh.

Lineout: Check (Ferris + Heaslip)
Ball Carrying: Check (SOB + Heaslip)
Rucking: Check (Heaslip + Ferris)
Defence: Check (SOB + Ferris + Heaslip)
Linking between backs: Check (SOB + Ferris + Heaslip)

Should Wallace be the one to miss out?

Pete,Leamy has an ability to give away a lot of stupid penalites and get into needless fights . Why wouldn't you pick him?

Oh and tell the ref to bring them back 10m don't forget that! What an absolute plank!

Ps: My last post is dependant on Ferris is being fit again and impressing in the warm ups

O'Brien and Heaslip in joint 1st
Wallace and Ferris joint 2nd
Jennings 3rd but very close to 2nd

It's tense

Ryan comfortably placed in 6th

i dont know how ryan is rated higher then mcloughlin

on this forum the munster lads have been pushing him hard and throwing out some of what i like to call "form propaganda" Where they just mention how much form he is in till they are blue in the face.

He has never performed at a level above magners consistently
Mcloughlin has played 6 nations and well, he played the knockout stages of the h cup and played well, and off game in the final but not terrible and it was a team epidemic really

D24tress,

Form alone is no reason for picking anyone.

McLaughlin has ONE Irish cap compared to the 7 Ryan has. Ryan has vastly more experience in the Heienken Cup and there isn't much in age only 1 year.

McLaughlin I would also say has never performed consistently above Magners and I have doubt about his ability to cover second row.

Ah Stag, McLaughlin had some outstanding HCup games.

Ryan also has the fact that he is much more comfortable at lock than mcLaughlin. McL only played there 3 or 4 times over the year. That is a huge factor considering we are only bringing 3 specialist locks

McLaughlin wasnt stellar in his 1 cap either albeit he had to fill Ferris' shoes at that point. I have no issue with Ryan as he has come into form at the right time. Had you asked me at the start of January i would have said Tuohy would be a cert as 4th choice lock but injury and a dip in form has curtailed that. Ryan seems to have found some form at the right

Good post pete. Essentially the place is for a lock that can cover backrow at a pinch, not the other way round

Pete the word used was consistent. McLaughlin was just a stop gap between Elsom and O'Brien. He's done well in the games he got but for me its an easy enough call to give the place to Ryan.

BTW D24 - thats an Ulsterman calling for his inclusion too Nothing to do with biased Musnter fans.

I think the world of Ryan, and in an ideal world he'd move to Ulster for more gametime where he would partner Muller.

We are set for locks though now with Stevenson, Muller, Tuohy, Barker and McComb. No chance of him moving. He certainly hasnt fulfilled his potential but from what i saw of him at the tail end of the season was as encouraging from him as i have seen

Notch wrote:I think the world of Ryan

how touching notch but can we stick to the rugby please....

No I know, I'm very happy with our current crop of locks. I'm just saying Ryan would be a good enough to start; that said Tuohy fits better into the high-tempo gameplan Ulster are trying to implement.

Realistically he stayed too long at Munster when a move to Leinster, Connacht or Ulster would have seen him get more game time.

Stag-
I wouldn't think that of McL at all, I think that is quite demeaning tbh. I think it's an easy call also but due to positioning issues

Ryan is a lock who can play well at 6
McL is a 6 who can play ok-ish at lock

Notch-
Leave Ryan there and let Tuohy keep improving those 2 are the future re: locks in ireland I think

Has anyone got to say anything about this:

"I'm not so sure what Wallace offers that Heaslip, SOB and Ferris would be lacking tbh.

Lineout: Check (Ferris + Heaslip)
Ball Carrying: Check (SOB + Heaslip)
Rucking: Check (Heaslip + Ferris)
Defence: Check (SOB + Ferris + Heaslip)
Linking between backs: Check (SOB + Ferris + Heaslip)

Should Wallace be the one to miss out?"

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Stag-
I wouldn't think that of McL at all, I think that is quite demeaning tbh.

But its fairly true. He was a squad player until big name Elsom left, then was first choice for a season or so before being over taken by the yougner O'Brien.