Political round up.............

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ps the Best leaders surround themselves with the best people.   Not so good leaders surround themselves with those that are not going to challenge them.  So maybe the reason why it appears that there is a poor selection of candidates is partly due to Boris Johnson.  Another reason may be that the leadership qualities and the general competence levels of elected mps has declined.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Yes, they are both criminals and liars, who should be far from public office, and are the symptoms of our broken political system.

Come on. If this were standard practice, there'd be no-one in Government (or opposition) at all.

IMO, Sunak has orders of magnitude more integrity than Johnson, the latter of whom has made a lifetime of lying, shagging and corruption.

Nothing wrong with a good shag. Everything wrong with lying and corruption.

I view Johnson and Sunak as the same.

Cleverly goes for Bozza, Braverman backs Sunak.

Seems Sunak is getting a lot of support from those considered on the 'right' of the party, so if he wins it'll be interesting to see what he has offered.

Overall mood seems to be that Sunak's backers are desperate to prevent a members vote.

The members just picked Truss, I wouldn't want them to decide this one either

Thoroughly enjoying all the bootlickers/talentless no hopers endorsing Boris as though he's a naughty boy who's learned his lesson, rather than someone running to be prime minister

Zahawi tweeting that he’s backing Boris because he ‘got the big calls right like stepping down for the sake of unity’ is absolutely incredible stuff.

Up there with Truss reversing every part of her budget because it was in the national interest

JDizzle wrote:Zahawi tweeting that he’s backing Boris because he ‘got the big calls right like stepping down for the sake of unity’ is absolutely incredible stuff.

I can see that 'Boris 2.0' catching on if Johnson wins. Basically uses it as a shield to block out criticism - 'no, that wasn't me! That was Boris 1.0, I'm Boris 2.0, completely different person'.

Duty281 wrote:Boris Johnson will be on tomorrow's ballot and the paperwork has been completed, it has been reported this evening.

Chris Heaton-Harris, the Northern Ireland Secretary, has sent a WhatsApp message to supporters of Mr Johnson in the past few minutes, according to the Sun's Harry Cole.

"OK everyone! Some very good news!" it reads. "Thanks to all your hard work I can confirm we have completed all the paperwork (verified all nominations, with proposer and seconder) to be on the ballot tomorrow.

"Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! More to follow, but thank you!!!!"

Must be masses of paperwork - it took them over 24 hours to fill it in after they got their 100 nominations.

I think the problem was that no one had a pen, so Boris (the absolute mad lad) had to fly in from the Caribbean to deliver one. Mental!

Boris drops out despite totally having the support of 100 mps.

So a Sunak coronation tomorrow

Anyone who believes he had 102 nominations - I have a bridge to sell you. Obviously lying and then trying to make himself out as doing the right thing.

JDizzle wrote:Zahawi tweeting that he’s backing Boris because he ‘got the big calls right like stepping down for the sake of unity’ is absolutely incredible stuff.

Update - Rishi now has Zahawi’s full support and we should all ignore the Telegraph column that dropped at 21:00 welcoming Boris 2.0 back. Why these people put themselves through this for a man who doesn’t give two Poopie about them will forever be beyond me.

Mixture of things probably. Above all else, pure desperation given most Tory MPs are staring down the barrel of an emphatic election defeat. But also an element of pandering to the members. Gonna be a battle for the future of the Conservative party once they get turfed out, and we know which way the members lean

That should be that then.

I believe Johnson did have the required supporters, but he probably realised during his discussions with Sunak (primarily) and Mordaunt that if he won the race a similar thing that happened to Truss would happen to him - the Tory Party would see a resignation of several dozen MPs, the Tories would lose their majority, and Johnson would be forced to go to the country and lose heavily, a destructive blow to his enormous ego and a very short tenure as PM. Even Johnson could see that which was plainly obvious. I imagine Johnson offered whatever he could to try and get Sunak on side, but failed.

That (almost certainly) leaves Sunak to become PM in a coronation, which is now the 99.9% chance.  He is the most hopelessly ill-equipped person I've ever seen to become PM (worse even than Johnson and that was a very low bar) and this could be the end of the Tory Party as a serious electoral force. Many Tory members will be (rightly) furious that this man has effectively been foisted upon them as their party leader, having been soundly defeated in the summer, and he is still not wanted by members. Members will also see how Sunak played a key role in undermining two party leaders, both (rightly or wrongly) leaders that were supported by the membership. This won't go down well and many will leave. The membership is already in a parlous state.

He is also not wanted by the country as a whole, I think it's safe to say. Sunak will have next to zero hope of doing anything in a GE, if he gets that far, bar delivering a resounding defeat. Sunak will demand unity after showing none of it himself. I hope those MPs in the Tory Party that don't support him undermine him at every point and turn. Starmer will have easy attack points again and again against Sunak, not that he'll need to use them.

The only, minor, chance of anything other than a Sunak coronation is if Johnson supporters get behind Mordaunt to lift her up to 100, even if they don't necessarily support her. This could force a member's vote between Mordaunt and Sunak, not that it's a desirable choice as Mordaunt is possibly a worse option than Sunak. But it would be a choice, rather than a coronation. There's no chance of a replacement candidate for Johnson at this late stage, I would have thought, as many of them have actually backed Sunak.

I know it's not constitutionally mandatory, but there must be a General Election. There should always be one when the PM changes, and though the electorate may be able to stomach one shift at the top without recourse to a GE straight away (Thatcher to Major, Blair to Brown, Wilson to Callaghan), three different leaders in two months really demands a GE. Sunak has no real legitimacy, but we're unlikely to see a GE until Jan 2025, barring more scandal. Electoral reform needs to happen. People need to have a say not just in who governs them, but the method in how we elect those who govern us.

For all his faults Johnson was an outstanding political campaigner, and though I don't like the guy, I respect his ability to win elections and he was the focal point of the Tories comeback in 2019 (not that I think he could have done it again, by the way). The Tories need a similar comeback from their new leader, but they're not going to get it from Sunak. There is a very big existential threat to the existence of the Tory Party, and the next GE could see the Tories reduced to double digit seats, which would probably see them ended as a serious political force, much like that which happened to the Liberals a century ago.

The key thing over the next week is to see what happens when (presumably) Sunak becomes PM and what support he gets from those in his party. He could have serious problems with a group of backbenchers, so the composition of his cabinet will be key. I'd expect Hunt to remain Chancellor, but the other spots are up for grabs. Will Sunak be able to govern, or will he be undermined? Policies we already know - high tax, high regulation, cuts to public services and reduced support for the poorest. Economic growth strangled and debt soaring. The same Tory policies of the last 12 years.

Amazingly, having reached 100 nominations yesterday, only 2 more nominations came through in the last 24 hours. Unless....they were lying yesterday. Surely not!

JuliusHMarx wrote:Just been listening to a Tory member on LBC via Twitter- basically a racist who won't vote for Sunak because "he isn't even British". These are the people who will decide our next PM. It is any wonder I despair for this country?

A majority of MPs voted for Sunak over Truss, while a majority of the membership voted for Truss over Sunak. I had thought race might play a strong factor but there were several reasons given on this thread why people would not vote for Sunak - him being some sort of criminal for breaking the law, not knowing what the price of milk being and Truss offering tax cuts for high earners (trickle down stimulus theory). It will be interesting to see what happens this time.

There are several very good reasons why Sunak should not be PM. He’s a criminal (which should have lost him his seat in the first place), his disasterous photo-op that showed he didnt know how to pay for things, and I question the morals and motivations of a man with that much money getting into politics.

There is one very good reason why he should be though: it practically guarantees a Labour victory in the next GE. The membership dont want him as much as the rest of us.

Maybe we can finally end this embarassing chapter of populist Poopie infecting our political system since the EU referendum.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Amazingly, having reached 100 nominations yesterday, only 2 more nominations came through in the last 24 hours. Unless....they were lying yesterday. Surely not!

Very big dictator vibes when they only get 99.4% of the votes in an election as getting 100% would be too unbelievable.

Samo wrote:There is one very good reason why he should be though: it practically guarantees a Labour victory in the next GE.

What Labour policies are you most looking forward to being implemented?

Whether Boris actually had the support of 102 MPs guess we'll never know for sure but it was crazy for him to even try and even crazier for his supporters to think he should be PM again so soon after his last stint ended as well as what's hanging over him.

I do suspect however sometime in future he'll make a run again as leader of Tories/PM.

Sources close to Penny Mordaunt's team tell me they are increasingly confident that more than 100 MPs will back her to be Tory leader.

Two insiders tell me they are nearly there, with two and a half hours to go. One suggests the figure is around 80 MPs, adding it is "50-50" if she can get to the 100 required.

Hmm...interesting. They were on about 30 last night, so would have needed 70 more from a combination of Johnson's 100-odd and the 100 unknowns. Maybe of Johnson's supporters have gone to Sunak, however. The ERG meeting this morning could be key.

Would be amazing if she got on the ballot and beat Sunak.

How many of Boris totally legitimate figure have gone to Penny's totally legitimate figure

She was 40-1 this morning was Penny. The bookies still don’t believe she will get 100.

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:There is one very good reason why he should be though: it practically guarantees a Labour victory in the next GE.

What Labour policies are you most looking forward to being implemented?

Off the top of my head? Ending fire and rehire and banning zero hour contracts, The Domestic Abuse register, improving tenants rights, aiming for Net-Zero by 2030. Im sure we'll learn more when an election is announced and a proper manifesto is released.

I'll also need to check how many of these will apply in Scotland and what will be devolved to Holyrood.

Net zero by 2030? Not a hope in hell with best will in world. Current target is 2050 which seems a long way off but to be honest probably realistic. Maybe 2040 is a possibility.
But within next 7 years not a chance.

Samo wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:There is one very good reason why he should be though: it practically guarantees a Labour victory in the next GE.

What Labour policies are you most looking forward to being implemented?

Off the top of my head?  Ending fire and rehire and banning zero hour contracts, The Domestic Abuse register, improving tenants rights, aiming for Net-Zero by 2030.  Im sure we'll learn more when an election is announced and a proper manifesto is released.

I'll also need to check how many of these will apply in Scotland and what will be devolved to Holyrood.

Not a lot really, then? I only asked because there's barely a difference between the two main parties, as evidenced by Starmer earlier, so nothing to get excited about.

Fire and rehire can't be ended. If an employer is so minded they would just be able to get around the rules by firing an employee and then re-advertising the job at the lower salary, rather than directly rehiring. Zero hour contracts won't be banned, Blair said he'd do this in the 90s. Not sure what point a Domestic Abuse register serves? Improving tenants rights - this could be a good one, but there are still many Labour MPs (though not as many as Tory MPs, I think) with a conflict of interest in this regard. Net Zero will be nowhere near accomplished by 2030, in any case it would cost too much.

We’ll have to wait and see on F&RH and ZHCs. If I understand correctly the Domestic Abuse register works in the same way as the Sex Offender register. If you have been convicted of domestic violence you are placed on a register and legally obligated to inform new partners. Starmer has spoken at length long before he was Labour leader about how upset he is at people being abused and even killed by partners who have a hidden history of domestic violence.

Net Zero by 2030 is a massive target, but an honourable one to aim for, isnt it? Investing in cleaner, greener energy will create thousands of jobs.

Just a pleasant thought to add, Rees  Mogg is doubtful to get a cabinet position, and for that I think the country should celebrate.
Let's hope Patel is nowhere near power ever again,too

Mordant drops out at the last minute, Sunak expected to be announced imminently.

Cue the exodus of Tory Party members as they're forced to accept a leader they don't want.

We now have to hope that a few dozen Tory MPs bring down the government and force a GE, or we'll be waiting for over two years.

Samo wrote:Mordant drops out at the last minute, Sunak expected to be announced imminently.

Laugh, I nearly 5HAT

Duty281 wrote:Cue the exodus of Tory Party members as they're forced to accept a leader they don't want

Feel for them, must be hard to accept a leader you didn't want and had no choice in electing

GSC wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Cue the exodus of Tory Party members as they're forced to accept a leader they don't want

Feel for them, must be hard to accept a leader you didn't want and had no choice in electing

Very true, they can join the rest of us in outrage.

The Tory leadership contests have been a disgrace and a complete waste of time. They may as well have just put Rishi in in July.

Still, I think the fact he is the first BAME and non-Christian PM is something worth celebrating.

Samo wrote:Still, I think the fact he is the first BAME and non-Christian PM is something worth celebrating.

Dizzy might like a word about that. Not really sure why his colour or religion matters anyway. Who cares about it?

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:Still, I think the fact he is the first BAME and non-Christian PM is something worth celebrating.

Dizzy might like a word about that. Not really sure why his colour or religion matters anyway. Who cares about it?

He was an ethnic Jew and but became an Anglican when he was 12. I'll change it to first non-Abrahamic religion practising PM if it makes you feel better.

I'd imagine it means quite a lot to British Indians and Hindus.

I doubt many British Indians and Hindus would want to be reminded of their association with Sunak. The vast majority of British Indians and Hindus are good, law-abiding people - they're not lying, feckless criminals like Sunak is.

No early GE, says Sunak...well of course there won't be.

The only way that they could get in again is by doing a Reverse Truss.Give everyone the rich excluded a "balm".

Seeing as post 2019 we can say for sure that the Tories have wasted in the region of a hundred billion, thats what we do know about so let's assume that the real figure is many times t that.
If everyone under the one fifty tax bracket would be given say 26  thousand pounds, they would put it back into the economy unlike the Truss beneficiaries who would use a "free" fifty thou to make more money for their own personal fortune, or maybe simply just buy your house off you.

Sure some people would act like ne'er do wells, (unlike the morally pure Uber capitalists of course) but most people would spend it either in the high street or investment of some kind.

But perish the thought.Actually giving money directly to poor people is something that is akin to a crime in this country and this society. Of course, the Tories don't give hand-outs!

Sunak speaks for a grand total of 84 seconds and then scuttles away to get his orders.

Duty281 wrote:Sunak speaks for a grand total of 84 seconds and then scuttles away to get his orders.

Don't tell me. He's got a second job with Just Eat
?

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