Wimbledon 2021

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The draw is out for Wimbledon, with defending champ Djoko opening against GB's Jack Draper.

Djoko is, of course, clear favourite and won't have to play Rafa or Thiem who have had to drop out along with, among others, Raonic and Stan the Man.

Federer opens against Mannarino and could play Gasquet in round two and Cameron Norrie in the third round. More importantly, Roger is in the bottom half of the draw and away from Djoko.

Andy Murray, who could have been drawn against any of the top seeds, has got 24th seed Basilashvili which won't be easy but could have been even tougher.

Dan Evans, seeded 22nd, could be up against it. He plays grass-court specialist Feliciano Lopez in the opening round. An intriguing round one match is Kyrgios v Humbert who won in Halle.

No one can be sure how Federer will play. He does not have too difficult a start and may be able to run into some form for the later, harder matches. Berrettini, seeded 7, could be a handful if his Queen's form carries on. Difficult to look beyond Djoko, although Novak could face Anderson in round two.

As mentioned in the previous topic 2019 champ Halep is not fit enough to start. Practically impossible to predict a woman's winner. Gauff could go deep. Kvitova and Kerber, two previous SW19 champs, seem to have run into some grass-court form as does 2017 French champion Ostapenko, who has reached a Wimbledon semi before.

I think this tournament puts an end to the jibes of Federer winning grand slams against weak fields. Those weak fields including Hewitt, Roddick, Agassi, Grosjean and even Philipousis who could at least play on grass.

Have seen enough. Checking out here.

Enjoy the rest of the match, all those sticking with it …… let’s hope for a higher quality Final next year.

C’mon England

I really don’t understand why Djokovic’s getting into it with the crowd. Granted the majority don’t like him. But anyone else would win the trophy and that stops the crowd anyway.

Credit to Berritini, he is fighting really hard.

Djokovic seems to have quite a bit of support today. It’s a Davis cup like atmosphere. I think Djokovic feeds off adversity anyway

quote="Jeff Navarro"]I really don’t understand why Djokovic’s getting into it with the crowd. Granted the majority don’t like him. But anyone else would win the trophy and that stops the crowd anyway. [/quote]

slashermcguirk wrote:Credit to Berritini, he is fighting really hard.

Thought he was going to take that game.
To many unforced errors though.
Hopefully he can take it to a 5th

Matteo every time he gets ahead on Djokovic’s serve. He gets a nosebleed and chokes it away.

Djokovic breaks and that’s pretty much all she wrote.

That was an unbelievable return game from Novak

The worst Wimbledon Men's final I've ever seen.

Duty281 wrote:The worst Wimbledon Men's final I've ever seen.

Comfortably the worst.

I usually support anyone against Djoko but the thought of Berrettini as Wimbledon champion was just too awful to contemplate.

Lowest quality Wimbledon ive ever seen on for the men and women. Hit to the backhand and he'll miss eventually was the sole tactic it took to win.

Six time champion, jesus christ.

Pretty poor standard final all things being equal.
This next generation needs to up their mental capacity.
Tsitsipas and Berrettini couldn’t have played a worse Djokovic in two consecutive finals yet he won.

The worst final, clearly. But almost certainly the worst performance by Djoko in a GS final.

Normally, he would have lost that match. But thankfully for him his opponent was so poor that Djoko was able to win even after handing him the first set.

Some of the play was laughably bad. Absolutely routine shots were missed.

I'm rather glad it's all over. Next year must be better.

Congratulations to Djokovic on #20 and #6. The CYGS dream is still alive, even though it is wobbly.

sirfredperry wrote:The worst final, clearly. But almost certainly the worst performance by Djoko in a GS final.

Normally, he would have lost that match. But thankfully for him his opponent was so poor that Djoko was able to win even after handing him the first set.

Some of the play was laughably bad. Absolutely routine shots were missed.

I'm rather glad it's all over. Next year must be better.

Unless Federer makes a remarkable recovery there's little chance of next year being much better. He and Murray have provided the excitement in recent years with a sprinkling of Tsonga and Del Potro. It might get to a point where everyone admits the next generation aren't very good.

Clearly not the worst final ever - does no-one remember 2017 or 2018 or 2010 or 1996 or 1997 etc.

It wasn´t that bad. Nadal-Berdych was one of my least favourities. There was something just extremely tedious about it, I just struggled to concentrate on it.

At least we had Berrettini slamming down some decent shots on MPs and getting some respectability and making a game of it by taking the first set.

Well done to Djokovic. Obviously not popular with some on here who downplay everything he does. However his career stats show what a great player player he has been and still is.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Clearly not the worst final ever - does no-one remember 2017 or 2018 or 2010 or 1996 or 1997 etc.

I remember McEnroe v Lewis and McEnroe v Connors in the early to mid-80s, far worse than this.

Not sure whether the Euro 20 thread or this one has the most whingeing but each is all the more entertaining for it.

Going out on a limb here but seriously disagree this being a contender for worst final. Clearly you've never had to sit through Hewitt v Nalbandian, Krajicek v Washington, Sampras v Pioline or the yawnfest of the first Sampras v Ivanisevic final.

Yes, the quality was ropey for large parts of match but we did get some decent rallies too, and it was nowhere near as one-sided as it could have been. One thing I will say though is that overall this tournament is the worst Wimbledon I remember seeing (and my tennis memories go as far back as the 1980s).

Soul Requiem wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:The worst final, clearly. But almost certainly the worst performance by Djoko in a GS final.

Normally, he would have lost that match. But thankfully for him his opponent was so poor that Djoko was able to win even after handing him the first set.

Some of the play was laughably bad. Absolutely routine shots were missed.

I'm rather glad it's all over. Next year must be better.

Unless Federer makes a remarkable recovery there's little chance of next year being much better. He and Murray have provided the excitement in recent years with a sprinkling of Tsonga and Del Potro. It might get to a point where everyone admits the next generation aren't very good.

Obviously they are not as good as Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, but if you're waiting for 3 more players of that quality to come along at the same time (or maybe even at different times), you're going to be waiting forever.

Galted wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Clearly not the worst final ever - does no-one remember 2017 or 2018 or 2010 or 1996 or 1997 etc.

I remember McEnroe v Lewis and McEnroe v Connors in the early to mid-80s, far worse than this.

Not sure whether the Euro 20 thread or this one has the most whingeing but each is all the more entertaining for it.

Chris Lewis. McEnroe could have played right-handed and won.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:The worst final, clearly. But almost certainly the worst performance by Djoko in a GS final.

Normally, he would have lost that match. But thankfully for him his opponent was so poor that Djoko was able to win even after handing him the first set.

Some of the play was laughably bad. Absolutely routine shots were missed.

I'm rather glad it's all over. Next year must be better.

Unless Federer makes a remarkable recovery there's little chance of next year being much better. He and Murray have provided the excitement in recent years with a sprinkling of Tsonga and Del Potro. It might get to a point where everyone admits the next generation aren't very good.

Obviously they are not as good as Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, but if you're waiting for 3 more players of that quality to come along at the same time (or maybe even at different times), you're going to be waiting forever.

I'm not waiting for someone that good, I am however waiting for someone who can beat aged versions of them on a consistent basis. There's a collective lack of bottle amongst the next gen, Tsitsipas at the French highlighted it best.

13 of Djoko's GS title wins have been against the others of the Big Four so it could be that he was "owed" a comparatively easy championship opponent.

Fed's GS final opponents have included Philippoussis, Baggy and Gonzo. He also beat a rookie Novak in New York in 07 and managed a couple of Wimbledon's while Rafa was still cutting his grass-court teeth.

Now, of course, the calendar Slam is on. At the moment you don't see anyone beating Djoko at the USO.

@HenmanBill, yes, Berrettini played some good tennis to close out that 1st set and in saving the match points - I really don't think it was that bad a final as some are making out.

Onto Djokovic, fantastic achievement at reaching no. 20 - yes, Nadal wasn't there, Federer was struggling and didn't make final, and the rest of the field was pretty weak, but still, the Roland Garros/Wimbledon double in same year is a great achievement. If he wins US Open he will, for me, be clear undisputed GOAT with clear water between him and Federer/Nadal - the calendar year slam would be a unique achievement in modern era which would set him apart, as well as giving him the highest slam total.

Soul Requiem wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:The worst final, clearly. But almost certainly the worst performance by Djoko in a GS final.

Normally, he would have lost that match. But thankfully for him his opponent was so poor that Djoko was able to win even after handing him the first set.

Some of the play was laughably bad. Absolutely routine shots were missed.

I'm rather glad it's all over. Next year must be better.

Unless Federer makes a remarkable recovery there's little chance of next year being much better. He and Murray have provided the excitement in recent years with a sprinkling of Tsonga and Del Potro. It might get to a point where everyone admits the next generation aren't very good.

Obviously they are not as good as Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, but if you're waiting for 3 more players of that quality to come along at the same time (or maybe even at different times), you're going to be waiting forever.

I'm not waiting for someone that good, I am however waiting for someone who can beat aged versions of them on a consistent basis. There's a collective lack of bottle amongst the next gen, Tsitsipas at the French highlighted it best.

Well, Thiem has won 5 of his last 7 matches against aged versions of all three of them i.e. 15 of 21.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Galted wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Clearly not the worst final ever - does no-one remember 2017 or 2018 or 2010 or 1996 or 1997 etc.

I remember McEnroe v Lewis and McEnroe v Connors in the early to mid-80s, far worse than this.

Not sure whether the Euro 20 thread or this one has the most whingeing but each is all the more entertaining for it.

Chris Lewis. McEnroe could have played right-handed and won.

That's the one. Epic semi-final, coming back from 0-3 in the final set against Curren, who must've been fairly red-faced when he saw how his conqueror performed in the final.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:The worst final, clearly. But almost certainly the worst performance by Djoko in a GS final.

Normally, he would have lost that match. But thankfully for him his opponent was so poor that Djoko was able to win even after handing him the first set.

Some of the play was laughably bad. Absolutely routine shots were missed.

I'm rather glad it's all over. Next year must be better.

Unless Federer makes a remarkable recovery there's little chance of next year being much better. He and Murray have provided the excitement in recent years with a sprinkling of Tsonga and Del Potro. It might get to a point where everyone admits the next generation aren't very good.

Obviously they are not as good as Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, but if you're waiting for 3 more players of that quality to come along at the same time (or maybe even at different times), you're going to be waiting forever.

I'm not waiting for someone that good, I am however waiting for someone who can beat aged versions of them on a consistent basis. There's a collective lack of bottle amongst the next gen, Tsitsipas at the French highlighted it best.

Well, Thiem has won 5 of his last 7 matches against aged versions of all three of them i.e. 15 of 21.

Yet has all of one grand slam to show for it including falling about in the 2020 Aussie final, a match he should have won, not helped by a convenient MTO of course.

Galted - I've done a lot of the whingeing and I'm sorry I've had to.

A lot of it has been down to acute disappointment. I've hardly enjoyed a match in the second week - the standard has been so low.

Barty-Kerber was good and would have been a good final. There's been talk of expecting too much from the younger men players given they're compared to the Big Three.

But it would be nice if they could actually get to the business end of tournaments so that they either get knocked out by Djoko or meet him in the final.

Novak should not have had to play a final against someone so limited as Berrettini, who should have been dispatched earlier.

I know there will be some who say I shouldn't use "limited" with the Italian. But did you see some of the play today? Some of his efforts were awful. The BH slice was Ok for a couple of shots before he netted. He would miss basic BH returns. And his movement along the baseline was laboured.

He didn't even serve well. Fewer than 60% of first serves in, only 38% of second-serve points won (Djoko won 53%). His FH drives were good at times but errors crept in.

What was particularly disappointing was his consistency. He'd hit a good shot and then dump the ball into the bottom of the net on the next point.

For poor finals and finalists at Wimbledon, I'll chuck in Martin Mulligan who got just five games against an all-conquering Rod Laver in 1962.

20 slams, what a legend

sirfredperry wrote:Galted - I've done a lot of the whingeing and I'm sorry I've had to.

A lot of it has been down to acute disappointment. I've hardly enjoyed a match in the second week - the standard has been so low.

Barty-Kerber was good and would have been a good final. There's been talk of expecting too much from the younger men players given they're compared to the Big Three.

But it would be nice if they could actually get to the business end of tournaments so that they either get knocked out by Djoko or meet him in the final.

Novak should not have had to play a final against someone so limited as Berrettini, who should have been dispatched earlier.

I know there will be some who say I shouldn't use "limited" with the Italian. But did you see some of the play today? Some of his efforts were awful. The BH slice was Ok for a couple of shots before he netted. He would miss basic BH returns. And his movement along the baseline was laboured.

He didn't even serve well. Fewer than 60% of first serves in, only 38% of second-serve points won (Djoko won 53%). His FH drives were good at times but errors crept in.

What was particularly disappointing was his consistency. He'd hit a good shot and then dump the ball into the bottom of the net on the next point.

For poor finals and finalists at Wimbledon, I'll chuck in Martin Mulligan who got just five games against an all-conquering Rod Laver in 1962.

Wasn't having a dig at you, or anyone else for that matter, sirfred.  I'd agree it wasn't a great tournament but the game is now played with such relentless accuracy that the slightest loss of radar is so much more noticeable and, as has been pointed out, the lack of grasscourt tennis over the last 2 years hasn't helped the players.  It's still been entertaining though, the 6-0 set against Federer being probably the most memorable moment.

The second week is often a bit of an anticlimax after the build-up then the hectic schedule of the first week.  Especially after the second Monday when it splits into women's and men's days.

slashermcguirk wrote:20 slams, what a legend

We know ….. we know. But that’s enough about Federer thanks

Galted. I agree that grass-court experience played a part. I also think that the "bubble" situation has thrown up some strange results.

I wonder whether we're now seeing Djoko, albeit well into his 30s, enjoying the sort of pomp that Fed had from 04 to 07 when nobody, save Rafa at the French, was really good enough to beat him.

So I don´t think we can say Djokovic IS the one GOAT after this result, but we can say - at least from the point of view of comparable statistics - that Federer and Nadal are NOT. In the case of Federer, he probably never will be either, (unless we really think he is going to win slams in his 40s!)

Barring injury, Novak is likely going to be year end no 1 and that he will be his 7th, with Roger and Rafa on 5. He has more weeks at no 1, the same slams, and two of each one.

He seems slightly ahead statistically of the other two, but you hesitate to crown Djokovic as the greatest of this era firstly because such slight differences are not that much and it makes more sense to say they are three great players.

Also because anyone who says Djokovic is GOAT now is going to be feeling a little sheepish if Nadal wins the US Open, you can´t anoint a new GOAT (or best of this era) after every tournament based on who has the slight statistical edge at a given moment.

So I think we wait until either:
--Djokovic moves 2 slams clear
--All 3 retire
--Djokovic wins the US Open, moving 1 slam clear plus CYGS

Then we call it?

sirfredperry wrote:He didn't even serve well. Fewer than 60% of first serves in, only 38% of second-serve points won (Djoko won 53%).

In the 2017 final Cilic only had 60% first serves in and won 39% of his second-serve points.
In the 2002 final Nalbandian only had 57% first serves in and won 32% of his second-serve points.

Those are just 2 of 5 one-sided finals I checked. Berrettini put in a middling performance, for a losing finalist, on those stats - and he won a set. 5 of the last 11 finals have been straight sets.

HB - It has to be when all three retire.

You expect Djoko to win the AO and Wimbledon. It was the French and his tremendous win in the semi against Rafa that has set up the chance of a calendar slam.

That was the unpredictable part of the year so far. It's become a given that Rafa wins RG. It's normally a question of who is going be runner-up.

I still think Djoko could be up against it in New York. The weight of history will be on his shoulders and the USO is the one Slam where you think someone outside the Big Three might have a chance.

You may recall that a few years back Serena was on for the Calendar Slam and in New York merely needed to get past two not-that-highly-ranked Italians. But she couldn't.

sirfredperry wrote:Novak should not have had to play a final against someone so limited as Berrettini, who should have been dispatched earlier.

I know there will be some who say I shouldn't use "limited" with the Italian. But did you see some of the play today? Some of his efforts were awful. The BH slice was Ok for a couple of shots before he netted. He would miss basic BH returns. And his movement along the baseline was laboured.

He didn't even serve well. Fewer than 60% of first serves in, only 38% of second-serve points won (Djoko won 53%). His FH drives were good at times but errors crept in.

What was particularly disappointing was his consistency. He'd hit a good shot and then dump the ball into the bottom of the net on the next point.

Last Wimbledon, Berrettini was not as good a player as he is today.

Laverfan

From the clips you showed, Berrettini's BH looked better two years ago than it does now....

In Tennis you play the opponent as Sampras said: its mano o mano.  You always play to your opponents weaknesses.  If your opponent doesn't have many weaknesses then you have to raise your level and start creating winners.  I think Djokovic was nervous at times but he played to Berrettini's weaknesses and that was able to give him the victory.  For Berrettini he won the Queens tournament and then got to the final of Wimbledon - not bad for him.  Djokovic went from winning Roland Garros straight into Wimbledon with no warm up grass court tournament.  Now it is off to the Olympics.  I hope he doesn't catch coronavirus with all this international travel and  breathing in the recirculated air on the planes etc.

I just wondered whether Queen's and Wimbledon flattered Berrettini.

He played 12 grass-court matches but only met one player higher ranked than 18 - Djokovic in today's final.

Now a number of the top guys played quite poorly at Wimbledon and possibly Berrettini might have beaten them. But I think it puts his grass-court wins into perspective.

sirfredperry wrote:From the clips you showed, Berrettini's BH looked better two years ago than it does now....

He seems to switch between SH/DH (a la Tsonga) depending on how hard he is pushed into the corner. His FH has shades of Soderling now when used as a bludgeon.

No name Bertie wrote:Djokovic went from winning Roland Garros straight into Wimbledon with no warm up grass court tournament.  

Not entirely true. He did play doubles in Majorca.

Kiss to laverfan

Djoko sucks !!!

Jahu3 wrote:Kiss to laverfan

Jahu3 wrote:Djoko sucks !!!

Hope you are doing well, too!

I'm a bit late to the party, but let me say my congratulations to Novak Djokovic. However, to me, he's got less charisma and personality than Ivan Lendl.

Novak has never done anything in particular that has upset or bothered me (other than beating Federer), but he's just not someone that I can warm to. But he's obviously a great player and it looks likely that as long as he remains focused, that he will be the one to overtake Margaret Smith Court's record of 24 majors rather than Serena Williams. I have to admit that between the two of them Novak and Serena, I would prefer Novak to leave tennis with the record of most majors.

Both number ones triumphed at a GS and that hasn't happened for ages.

But the standard at Wimbledon was such that neither Djoko nor Barty played particularly well to take the titles.

The quality was not helped by the number of absentees. The men's draw certainly missed Rafa and Thiem was also unavailable. The women had Osaka and Halep absent.

The players were, and looked, grass-court rusty. The moving back a week of the French was another factor.

The pandemic played a part too. Konta couldn't play. The players were away from their families, staying in bubbles. This could have affected their preparation and mental state.

Chuck all these things into the mix and they add up to a fairly mediocre Championships.

On the plus side. Wimbledon got played in front of enthusiastic crowds. Support for the players was fantastic. It was just a pity the fans were presented with such poor fare.

Atila wrote:I'm a bit late to the party, but let me say my congratulations to Novak Djokovic. However, to me, he's got less charisma and personality than Ivan Lendl.

Novak has never done anything in particular that has upset or bothered me (other than beating Federer), but he's just not someone that I can warm to. But he's obviously a great player and it looks likely that as long as he remains focused, that he will be the one to overtake Margaret Smith Court's record of 24 majors rather than Serena Williams. I have to admit that between the two of them Novak and Serena, I would prefer Novak to leave tennis with the record of most majors.

My wife made a similar comment when he won the semi final, and I realised the comparison I was after - he's the tennis world's equivalent of Stephen Hendry. So good he never misses, but it gets a bit 'robotic' at times and just doesn't stir the emotions in the way that Fed or Nadal do.

@ dummy_half @ Atila

Interesting comments.

It’s a strange one really. In the early days, Djokovic struggled to gain positive traction with the crowds, even though all right-minded tennis aficionados could clearly see just how talented he was, right from his first AO trophy. There has been some increase in warmth over the years, no doubt ; but, as you say, it has never developed into the sort of adulation and universal acclaim enjoyed by Federer and Nadal - and it seems unlikely ever to do so - regardless of whether he were to win 25 Slams or 50

I guess therein lies the (sometimes intangible) distinction between sheer achievement and success measured by results ; and the spark that brings excitement, passion, and emotion into sporting contests for those witnessing them.

Novak Djokovic could very likely go on to rack up better statistics (including on-court earnings) than anyone else in the entire history of tennis - and yet, the one element that is entirely outside his control - popularity - will perhaps never correlate to what the record books show.

I suspect (??) the achievements are the only things which interest him in terms of legacy, and if so, then that’s no bad thing at all.