F1 2020 Season

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start this thread since no-one else has yet.

First glimpse of this season's cars as Haas unveil their entry for this year. Not really much difference visually from last season, but then there haven't been any major rule changes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51405017




Have to say I quite like this livery.

Feel free to add more pics as they are released...

Bottas is managed by Toto yeah.

I think Bottas as much as anything has ran out of chances to prove he can be anything more than a #2 to Lewis. And I would guess he's not that cost effective compared to drivers who could do a similar job for the team.

GSC wrote:Bottas is managed by Toto yeah.

I think Bottas as much as anything has ran out of chances to prove he can be anything more than a #2 to Lewis. And I would guess he's not that cost effective compared to drivers who could do a similar job for the team.

I think this hits the nail on the head tbh.

When you do a quick comparison between Hamilton vs Rosberg / Hamilton vs Bottas it’s clearly evident that Bottas has reached his ceiling.

Hamilton/Rosberg 2014-16: Hamilton 31 wins and Rosberg 20 wins
Hamilton/Bottas 2017-19: Hamilton 31 wins and Bottas 7 wins - Bottas lost a couple of wins but still he’s absolutely been pounded into submission.

Jeff Navarro wrote:... it’s rather obvious that Mercedes will sign Vettel. Aside from Daimler wanting Vettel, German sports minister has requested a ‘solution’ for Vettel. IIRC if Vettel quits there will no German drivers for the first time in 25 years. Bitter pill to swallow for the powerhouse nation of automobiles...

It seems that the German Government are rather nationalistic. If a member of the British Government said something like that they would be accused of nationalism and interfering into areas that don't concern them.

No name Bertie wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:... it’s rather obvious that Mercedes will sign Vettel. Aside from Daimler wanting Vettel, German sports minister has requested a ‘solution’ for Vettel. IIRC if Vettel quits there will no German drivers for the first time in 25 years. Bitter pill to swallow for the powerhouse nation of automobiles...

It seems that the German Government are rather nationalistic.   If a member of the British Government said something like that they would be accused of nationalism and interfering into areas that don't concern them.

Tbh the automotive industry is Germany’s main market. Mercedes + Vettel would probably help their market post pandemic.

Also Mercedes left the door open by never signing Bottas up for a longer deal.

No name Bertie wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:... it’s rather obvious that Mercedes will sign Vettel. Aside from Daimler wanting Vettel, German sports minister has requested a ‘solution’ for Vettel. IIRC if Vettel quits there will no German drivers for the first time in 25 years. Bitter pill to swallow for the powerhouse nation of automobiles...

It seems that the German Government are rather nationalistic.   If a member of the British Government said something like that they would be accused of nationalism and interfering into areas that don't concern them.

Even more hypocritical considering they're clearly not that bothered about supporting races in their country.

Dutch GP is cancelled

Williams are for sale. No real surprise.

Few sources claiming this will be Toto Wolff’s last season at Mercedes. Either a clean break from the sport, or a move to Aston Martin for, 2021.

The Williams literally carries no prestige anymore. Without a full manufacture takeover by an Audi/VW or Nissan for example the team is finished.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see Michael Latifi try for a full takeover.

Sad day. The Williams name will always be iconic within Formula One, even if the modern day team has been a shadow of its former self for a while now.

GSC wrote:Sad day. The Williams name will always be iconic within Formula One, even if the modern day team has been a shadow of its former self for a while now.

It is indeed. Just highlights how much the sport has changed over the years, to the point its now impossible for "privateer" teams to compete. You've got to be owned, or at least bankrolled by companies or consortiums with serious financial clout, or you're not going to last very long.

Just look at McLaren and the problems they've been though...right up to having to lay off staff and cut costs...and they're backed by the flippin' national bank of Bahrain!

Still came as a bit of a shock though, as Williams were supposed to have undergone a major restructuring after their recent troubles, both to improve their competitiveness and financial position.

Jeff Navarro wrote:
The Williams literally carries no prestige anymore. Without a full manufacture takeover by an Audi/VW or Nissan for example the team is finished.

I guess you're not familiar with their history. They are still one of the most successful F1 teams of all time. It may have been over 20 years since they last won a title but they are still 3rd in the all-time list with 114 race wins...only bettered by McLaren and Ferrari. Their most recent win being in 2012...so not that long ago.

Despite the huge drought since their heyday, they are STILL 2nd in the list of constructors' champions with 9 titles...again only bettered by Ferrari. Last achieved in 1997. Even McLaren haven't done that since 1998.

They can boast world champion drivers including Alan Jones, Keke Rosberg, Nelson Piquet, Alan Prost, Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill & Jacques Villeneuve.

A couple of decades in the wilderness doesn't diminish those achievements. Especially when you consider how many teams that have existed who haven't achieved a fraction of this...or been around nearly as long.

Williams' success was in an era where privateer teams could prosper as manufactures often only supplied engines - aside from Ferrari. Renault, Honda, Mercedes, and a few others.

Once manufacturers started getting more involved, Williams became what they really are - a privateer team.

Williams' decline has been since they opted to ditch Barrichello and secondly Massa for an assortment of mediocre pay drivers. The die has been cast a long time ago.

Confirmed return of F1

European schedule in full:

July 5 – Austrian GP
Jul 12 – Steiermark GP
Jul 19 – Hungarian GP
Aug 2 – British GP
Aug 9 – 70th Anniversary GP
Aug 16 – Spanish GP
Aug 30 – Belgian GP
Sep 6 – Italian GP

Azerbaijan, Singapore and Japan all under threat of cancellation.

Potentially leading to a second race in Monza, one in Hockenheim and one potentially one at Ferrari's Mugello.

I'm all for as many European races as possible

Looking like there will be no seat for Vettel anywhere in 2021 and a retirement announcement could be imminent. Wolff’s uncertainty at Mercedes means Vettel is option 5 of 5 - Hamilton, Bottas, Ocon and Russell. More so James Allison and Vettel didn’t get on during the latter’s time at Maranello - Allison doesn’t want to work with Vettel again.

Be a shame if he did. Despite the knives the British media have had out for him since 2011, he's a world class driver and by all accounts a great guy. There'll be a lot of worse drivers on the grid.

With regards to Vettel, he could take 2021 off, he’s an intelligent man maybe try out IndyCar. Then see if he wants to return to F1 in 2022 for the overhaul.

A couple of other snippets:
Michael Lafiti has made an offer of €135m for the Williams team. If that deal doesn’t work out Russian billionaire Dmitry Mazepin is waiting in the wings.

Kimi Raikkonen, along with Alonso one of my all time favourites, has hinted that 2020 could be the end. There’s strong suggestions in Italy that Mick Schumacher already has a deal with Alfa Romeo - more so Ferrari. Ferrari would prefer Schumacher to cut his teeth against fellow Ferrari junior Giovinazzi.

Renault continues to be petty and won’t supply engine a 2018 spec engine, so the British marquee won’t be able to get their drivers any private track time. Very immature

Just John wrote:Wouldn’t surprise me to see Michael Latifi try for a full takeover.

Saw that coming a mile off, no real surprise. Just following in the footsteps of Lawrence Stroll.

As for Vettel, that’s disappointing news, for him, and for the fans. Shame politics have to get involved. I think Mercedes will just get Russell in to replace Bottas.

Japan, Singapore and Azerbaijan all off.

Now expected to have 2 GPs at Hockenheim and possibly an extra Italian GP at Mugello.

Canada may be possible, Sochi should (unfortunately) go ahead.

The US, Mexican and Brazilian GPs are all unlikely.

Double races at Bahrain and Abu Dhabi could end the season

Imola has now been certified by the FIA so it could theoretically also hold a race

I would just like to see some racing and see how things pan out for this season.  It could end up turning into a farce if for example the championship leader gets Covid-19 or their critical race engineers get it.  

Dr Helmut Marko (Dr in Law rather than in science or engineering) had the idea of exposing all his drivers and younger personnel to Coronavirus to ensure they get it and recover from it - most get the mild form - at least those that are not in the risk group.  Others get a more serious form. His idea was not well understood by his PR advisors and the media.

Given this is Vettel's last season with Ferrari is there any expectation that there might be fireworks from Vettel when this season begins?  He will surely want to get the best results for himself and won't necessarily heed instructions from Ferrari.  I would think that he would want to at least beat Leclerc in this championship and possibly challenge for the title if Ferrari have the car to do that.   Although according to Helmut Marko, he sees the 2020 championship as being between Mercedes and Red Bull.

Ferrari have little to no chance in 2020. The car is absolutely terrible. As per the Italian press they are tearing Binotto a new one.

No podium ceremonies this season. As expected tbh what’s the point spraying champagne when there’s no one there.

Mercedes' head of engine department Andy Cowell will leave the team on July 1. He's been a large part of the domination since 2014.

Ferrari to debut upgraded engine at the Red Bull Ring, worth a rumoured 15BHP. Supposedly they've been working on durability as the original unit from testing was pathetically poor. Proof will be in the pudding for Binotto...

I also don't understand how they've worked on the engine when FIA enforced factories to be closed.

Another day another Dr Marko meltdown. Red Bull’s outspoken advisor is fuming that Renault have been granted two days of private testing, using 2018 cars, at the Red Bull Ring. Obviously there’s no love loss between Red Bull and the French manufacture. Wouldn’t be surprised if the management group at Spielberg get axed as Dr Marko is a pretty volatile person.

Red Bull themselves aren’t allowed to do testing as their 2018 car was Renault powered.

Additionally AlphaTauri opted to test at Imola instead so Verstappen and Albon couldn’t use the 2018 Honda powered Toro Rosso.

McLaren are working around that with an F3 car

McLaren will be bust on July 17 unless a court case allows them to remortgage their HQ and historic car collection.

McLaren will get a loan from the bank of Bahrain.

Also, looks like Mugello will be staging a race in September, which will bring something fresh to the calendar. Imola also working hard to try and secure a deal.

Williams have revealed their livery

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Mugello appears confirmed according to the Italian press - if it’s ratified it will be Ferrari’s 1000th race

Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas will race black-liveried Mercedes cars in the 2020 season as F1’s world champions make a powerful and visual stand against racism and for diversity

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Just John wrote:Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas will race black-liveried Mercedes cars in the 2020 season as F1’s world champions make a powerful and visual stand against racism and for diversity

Painting the car black is not a powerful and visual stand against racism - it is just painting the car black and then creating an advertising spin called virtue signalling.

If they want to make a powerful stand against racism and for diversity they should sack Toto Wolff and replace him with a black person.   They could also sack a proportion of their white engineers and replace them with black engineers.  

Such measures have been taken in other areas in the past in certain states and countries and certain institutions.  By putting people on short term contracts to begin with you don't need to sack them.

Just John wrote:McLaren will get a loan from the bank of Bahrain.

Also, looks like Mugello will be staging a race in September, which will bring something fresh to the calendar. Imola also working hard to try and secure a deal.

Williams have revealed their livery

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You would hope McLaren's principal backer would open their chequebook. I can't see them being short of a few million, even in this time of international turmoil & financial crisis. Pretty sure they won't have to sell off their historic car collection.

Very happy to hear the news about Imola. Can't recall if its a good track for overtaking...been so long since the last race there. But I did see the episode of Top Gear where they were driving hypercars around...looks like a good drivers' circuit. Who knows, with the new regs in place, (2022 now?) maybe all circuits will offer much better spectacles.

New Williams looks nice...just a shame it'll probably be another rolling roadblock. They desperately need a takeover to sort out their financial problems.

Like the look of the "BLM" Mercedes. Shame its only for this season.

No name Bertie wrote:
Painting the car black is not a powerful and visual stand against racism - it is just painting the car black and then creating an advertising spin called virtue signalling.

If they want to make a powerful stand against racism and for diversity they should sack Toto Wolff and replace him with a black person.   They could also sack a proportion of their white engineers and replace them with black engineers.  

Such measures have been taken in other areas in the past in certain states and countries and certain institutions.  By putting people on short term contracts to begin with you don't need to sack them.

Don't be idiotic.

No company operates like that...especially high-tech ones that require highly trained personnel. Even Lewis wouldn't approve of that. You don't change a winning formula for the sake of it.

The point he's trying to make is that F1 is just one of many areas where BAME people have failed to advance very far and more opportunities need to be made available. Encourage more BAME people into engineering and then channel them into motorsport. Not that different from the campaign to encourage more women into engineering.

Yes re-painting the cars is only a symbolic gesture...but none of the other teams are doing anything like it, so its still sending a message / making people think (hopefully).

If you read the BBC news article, you'd know Lewis had a meeting with Toto to see what practical measures they can take to put their words into action. It'll take time, but if they can kickstart some initiatives that produce some real changes a few years down the line, then I think they can be proud of themselves.

Also, short term contracts are not the answer. That just leads to uncertainty and instability...bad for the teams and bad for the personnel. Not so much the drivers & team bosses, who are very well paid. But the designers, software engineers, mechanics and all the other "ordinary" staff who don't earn anything like as much, would likely start looking for more stable long-term jobs.

Seems rather hollow effort from Mercedes if you ask me. One of their principal partners Hugo Boss - was a Nazi. If they are so against racist kick Hugo Boss to the gutter. We all know that will never happen.

Mercedes just doing this for column inches nothing more.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Seems rather hollow effort from Mercedes if you ask me. One of their principal partners Hugo Boss - was a Nazi. If they are so against racist kick Hugo Boss to the gutter. We all know that will never happen.

Mercedes just doing this for column inches nothing more.

So they should cease a partnership with Hugo Boss based on something that happened 80 years ago? I'm assuming that you're unaware that Daimler-Benz produced armoured vehicles and plane engines largely through forced labour for use by the German military during WW2 but that is not a reflection of what the company stands for now.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Seems rather hollow effort from Mercedes if you ask me. One of their principal partners Hugo Boss - was a Nazi. If they are so against racist kick Hugo Boss to the gutter. We all know that will never happen.

Mercedes just doing this for column inches nothing more.

Now you're being just as stupid as Bertie. Hugo Boss died in 1948!

You may as well say the US should disband NASA because it was originally headed by the Nazis' chief rocket scientist...the guy who oversaw the design of the V2.


Also think about who is currently driving at Mercedes. I'm pretty sure Lewis Hamilton will want to do a hell of a lot more than pay lip service to the BLM movement. You can be sure he isn't doing it for publicity.

dyrewolfe wrote:... Now you're being just as stupid as Bertie ...

Great, so now I have become an example of stupidity.  

It must be true what they say - that this is all a ruse to divide the people to make them easier to rule over and control.

I think Jeff and I have made valid alternative opinions.  If we are labelled idiotic or stupid because of it then there is no real way forward in terms of people being allowed to have differing opinions and for genuine discussion.  Statues are being toppled, names are being changed, institutions and companies are apologizing for their past, fingers are being pointed, virtue signalling is in overdrive.

Given the motorsport forum here contains so few contributors left, can we afford the possibility of diminishing it further?

I used to post on the Football forum but decided against ever posting on there again (at least on the main threads) because of the way some of the comments were treated.  That forum looks rather moribund now.

Politicising subjects creates divides.

Anyway this is not personal just an observation or bants.  Everything is fine but calling people idiots or stupid in this context doesn't really say anything, it has no information value, it just expresses a feeling and an ill-opinion from the person calling it.

Hopefully we will get some racing very soon beginning this weekend.  It will be interesting to see how competitive everyone will be.

Ps "I find your suggestion ridiculous ..." is probably better and less personal than calling someone an idiot or stupid.

Ferrari have abandoned the upgrades planned for the underwhelming SF1000 for the Austrian double header. As the Italian press has been suggesting the car was beyond salvaging. As such a totally revamped car with debut in Hungary. Literally Binotto needs it to work out otherwise he’ll be on his way out.

With a number of team bosses, designers and world champion drivers passing through without returning Ferrari to the top, will it make much difference

Binotto’s case is different compared to those before him. Binotto was given the power to dump Vettel as such if Binotto also gets sacked it would be rather embarrassing for Ferrari.

No real surprise they’ve abandoned that car. Vettel basically said the car was a turd after Barcelona.

Think Ferrari can essentially write off, 2020. Pretty embarrassing having to redesign their entire car, and the likelihood of it being competitive, is unlikely. Given the limited timeframe, it wouldn’t surprise me, to see them do a Racing Point, and end up bringing a Red Mercedes to Hungary

Fundamentally Ferrari are paying the price for trying to copy Adrian Newey's high rake design. So much so that Ferrari had become obsessed with the high rake in recent seasons. Rather humorously the upgrades that are now on ice showed no compatibility with the current spec car. Amateur hour never seems to end at Maranello these days

Is this an error of Williams-esque proportions? 

According to the BBC

BBC wrote:Ferrari have been forced to make a major redesign of their car as a result of flaws discovered since it ran in pre-season testing in February.

Team boss Mattia Binotto said work on understanding why the car was off the pace led to a "significant change of direction in terms of development".

The result is the car will run in pre-season specification at this weekend's delayed season-opening race in Austria.

The upgrade is due to make its debut at the Hungarian Grand Prix on 17-19 July.

Binotto said the team had been forced to revise their approach to the car's aerodynamics following their investigation into its performance shortfall.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53160036

So that suggests the Ferrari to be used for the Austrian Grand Prix will be that brought to Spain in the pre-season and upgrades to that will be introduced about two weeks later at Hungary.

No name Bertie wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:... Now you're being just as stupid as Bertie ...

Great, so now I have become an example of stupidity.  

It must be true what they say - that this is all a ruse to divide the people to make them easier to rule over and control.

I think Jeff and I have made valid alternative opinions.  If we are labelled idiotic or stupid because of it then there is no real way forward in terms of people being allowed to have differing opinions and for genuine discussion.  Statues are being toppled, names are being changed, institutions and companies are apologizing for their past, fingers are being pointed, virtue signalling is in overdrive.

Given the motorsport forum here contains so few contributors left, can we afford the possibility of diminishing it further?

I used to post on the Football forum but decided against ever posting on there again (at least on the main threads) because of the way some of the comments were treated.  That forum looks rather moribund now.

Politicising subjects creates divides.

Anyway this is not personal just an observation or bants.  Everything is fine but calling people idiots or stupid in this context doesn't really say anything, it has no information value, it just expresses a feeling and an ill-opinion from the person calling it.

Hopefully we will get some racing very soon beginning this weekend.  It will be interesting to see how competitive everyone will be.

Ps "I find your suggestion ridiculous ..." is probably better and less personal than calling someone an idiot or stupid.

I reckon if you want people to stop calling you stupid you should stop being stupid. Just a suggestion

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I reckon if you want people to stop calling you stupid you should stop being stupid. Just a suggestion

You bring nothing to this thread except aggression and abuse.

Vettel confirmed he received no new contract offer from Binotto. Binotto called and said Ferrari don't want him anymore.

This would've been a brave move if the SF1000 was good car. Seeing as it's pathetic, Binotto looks a total moron.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Vettel confirmed he received no new contract offer from Binotto. Binotto called and said Ferrari don't want him anymore.

This would've been a brave move if the SF1000 was good car. Seeing as it's pathetic, Binotto looks a total moron.

I thought Binotto was supposed to be the engineer, the technician, the guru. A non political person who would finally see Ferrari tighten up and remove all the little errors that had seen their championship challenges in recent years fizzle out towards the end of the season.

Any news regarding the Ferrari engine power. Has this years problems arisen out of the loss of power from the engine following all the claimed little tricks to add extra fuel to the engine at key moments seems to have been discovered and ruled illegal.

First practice been and gone. Started off damp then dried out. Mercedes on softs led the way. Still very early to say too much.

We've learnt that Hamilton has, barring mechanical failure, got the first race all sewn up.

No name Bertie wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Vettel confirmed he received no new contract offer from Binotto. Binotto called and said Ferrari don't want him anymore.

This would've been a brave move if the SF1000 was good car. Seeing as it's pathetic, Binotto looks a total moron.

I thought Binotto was supposed to be the engineer, the technician, the guru.  A non political person who would finally see Ferrari tighten up and remove all the little errors that had seen their championship challenges in recent years fizzle out towards the end of the season.  

Any news regarding the Ferrari engine power.  Has this years problems arisen out of the loss of power from the engine following all the claimed little tricks to add extra fuel to the engine at key moments seems to have been discovered and ruled illegal.

First practice been and gone.  Started off damp then dried out.  Mercedes on softs led the way.   Still very early to say too much.

Binotto assumed the SF1000 was going to be on par with Mercedes not just in 2020 but 2021 as well considering the rules have been frozen. As such Binotto would prefer LeClerc to become champion over Vettel as LeClerc is essentially a Ferrari junior.

All in all Binotto has acted like an absolute imbecile, you sack a quadruple champion - Binotto today after more words of wisdom “we at Ferrari didn’t believe Sebastian is fast enough” - truly mind boggling. Must be the slowest man to win multiple championships

As for the engine issues. I’ve spoken to a few people but it’s not really allowed to be spoken about. Scuderia made their engine department sign water tight NDAs. But there’s a few suggestions that Jean Todt May have punished Ferrari by secretly enforcing them to use ballast in the car. I’m not 100% agreement on this but in Italy it’s continuously being reported that the 2020 engine is considerably heavier then it’s 2019 model.

We won’t in all likelihood ever find out the truth though.