Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Soft thread split, hard thread split, no-deal thread split. Who gives a sh!t as long as we get a thread split by the 15:35 deadline.

Can't see Boris (or Hunt) calling a GE before Brexit. The political climate is too unstable and unpredictable - why become PM and risk it needlessly straight-away (as May did, and look what happened to her).

They're likely to have no choice but to call a general election if it becomes clear by early October that they're actively going for no deal. There'd be resignations and a vote of no confidence.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Again, you seem to be assuming that all those who voted Conservative last time out will be on board with a no-deal Brexit.

No, I'm basing it on current polling figures, not the results in 2017.

And you're assuming that those currently polling for the Tories are in the bag and can only be added to. Now it's safe enough to assume that everyone currently polling for the Tories want us to leave the EU, but leaving without a deal?

Duty281 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Again, you seem to be assuming that all those who voted Conservative last time out will be on board with a no-deal Brexit.

No, I'm basing it on current polling figures, not the results in 2017.

Lib Dems weren't on 20% in 2017...

40 out of 50 of their target seats are Conservative and the SNP are on target for 10 of the 14 Conservative seats with their 20 point lead..

Yes Johnson can smash Labour and take 50 seats...

But it's not much good if they lose 50....Neither Lib Dem or SNP will go in to coalition with a Brexit nutter.

Only way there is a GE is if as expected Boris can't govern with a 3 majority after he loses Brecon in July.

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Shocking YG poll for Labour....

Con 24
Brex 23
Lib 20
Lab 18...

Big decision for Corbynistas.....Do they stay pure or do they replace the leader and compromise on the agenda..

Preferably the latter.

Easiest job in the world for Boris. Promise no-deal, GE in early October, destroy the Brexit Party, allow Labour and the LDs to rip shreds out of each other's vote, win a huge majority, job done.

Even if they did win a majority with this strategy, which would be possible but difficult, it wouldn't be job done.

Do you know why? Because after getting in power they would two options:

1/ Don't deliver on No Deal Brexit. Trying to go for an imperfect Brexit Deal compromise would see them branded as traitors who went back on their word. They'd never be forgiven electorally.
2/ Deliver No Deal Brexit. This would cause huge short term and long term damage to the UK economy. Duty I'm not sure how much you know about trade in good and services, but being on WTO terms actually hurts UK's leverage heading into new trade deals. After economic humiliation, the Tories would have to own the disaster as they campaigned on it, and they'd lose their economic credibility which is the only thing that keeps them in power. Electoral doom.

It Must Be Love wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Shocking YG poll for Labour....

Con 24
Brex 23
Lib 20
Lab 18...

Big decision for Corbynistas.....Do they stay pure or do they replace the leader and compromise on the agenda..

Preferably the latter.

Easiest job in the world for Boris. Promise no-deal, GE in early October, destroy the Brexit Party, allow Labour and the LDs to rip shreds out of each other's vote, win a huge majority, job done.

Even if they did win a majority with this strategy, which would be possible but difficult, it wouldn't be job done.

Do you know why? Because after getting in power they would two options:

1/ Don't deliver on No Deal Brexit. Trying to go for an imperfect Brexit Deal compromise would see them branded as traitors who went back on their word. They'd never be forgiven electorally.
2/ Deliver No Deal Brexit. This would cause huge short term and long term damage to the UK economy. Duty I'm not sure how much you know about trade in good and services, but being on WTO terms actually hurts UK's leverage heading into new trade deals. After economic humiliation, the Tories would have to own the disaster as they campaigned on it, and they'd lose their economic credibility which is the only thing that keeps them in power. Electoral doom.

I sincerely doubt Boris cares about either of those things, or the medium-term implications for the Tory Party. He only cares about his power grab and sustaining it for as long as possible. And there's a clear path open for him to be PM for five years.

Duty281 wrote:
I sincerely doubt Boris cares about either of those things, or the medium-term implications for the Tory Party. He only cares about his power grab and sustaining it for as long as possible. And there's a clear path open for him to be PM for five years.

Well we agree that Boris cares about himself. But in that case why wouldn't he just stay in power till 2022, he can be PM for 3 years in that case. Why risk losing power immediately?

It Must Be Love wrote:Well we agree that Boris cares about himself ...

Does he? He looks a right state.

GSC wrote:If part of the appeal of Jeremy Corbyn is that hes not a traditional politician, it's not a great look that Labour have taken a backseat on the most important issue in years because they viewed it politically convenient to not be on a side.

That is how he's been sold. But in reality he's been a traditional politician for 35 years, even if he's been on the lunatic fringe of parliament. They have managed to push him as some kind of exciting newcomer only because, outside of some controversial stuff, he has been an unknown despite all those years of experience.

Corbyn's appeal is that he believes like Bernie in equality and his record shows he stands by his principles....Struggling types see someone who cares..

Unfortunately for him you have to appeal to Middle class types with aspiration..

I admire Corbyn like Bernie but he is too left wing.

Opinium

Lab 25
Con 23
Brex 22
Lib 15

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn's appeal is that he believes like Bernie in equality and his record shows he stands by his principles....Struggling types see someone who cares..

Unfortunately for him you have to appeal to Middle class types with aspiration..

I admire Corbyn like Bernie but he is too left wing.

Sticks by his principles? What way did he (claim to) vote in the referendum?

It Must Be Love wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
I sincerely doubt Boris cares about either of those things, or the medium-term implications for the Tory Party. He only cares about his power grab and sustaining it for as long as possible. And there's a clear path open for him to be PM for five years.

Well we agree that Boris cares about himself. But in that case why wouldn't he just stay in power till 2022, he can be PM for 3 years in that case. Why risk losing power immediately?

He might very well do that, though of course the current parliamentary arithmetic is stick-thin making the position of the next PM somewhat precarious. If there's a path open to him gaining a proper majority, he should go after it, and going for a GE early on is probably his best chance of doing that.

Samo wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn's appeal is that he believes like Bernie in equality and his record shows he stands by his principles....Struggling types see someone who cares..

Unfortunately for him you have to appeal to Middle class types with aspiration..

I admire Corbyn like Bernie but he is too left wing.

Sticks by his principles? What way did he (claim to) vote in the referendum?

Talking about fundamentals like Equality...Social Justice..Standard of living..

Anyone can change their mind on issues like the EU....Sanders has been up and down on NAFTA..

But you can disagree....Not against the law to nitpick..

Duty281 wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
I sincerely doubt Boris cares about either of those things, or the medium-term implications for the Tory Party. He only cares about his power grab and sustaining it for as long as possible. And there's a clear path open for him to be PM for five years.

Well we agree that Boris cares about himself. But in that case why wouldn't he just stay in power till 2022, he can be PM for 3 years in that case. Why risk losing power immediately?

He might very well do that, though of course the current parliamentary arithmetic is stick-thin making the position of the next PM somewhat precarious. If there's a path open to him gaining a proper majority, he should go after it, and going for a GE early on is probably his best chance of doing that.

Yeah but if he does as you say, he’ll be on course to be remembered as the most disastrous PM in UK history.
I mean Cameron and May have bad reputations, but none of them led UK into recession.

Interesting polls..

Comres
Lab 28
Con 25

Comres...If Boris were PM ??
Con 32
Lab 25

Comres....If Hunt were PM ?
Con 27
Lab 27

Really says something when a Misogynistic...Racist Fraud...Chucks up a few bollox No deal scenarios and some usually intelligent people buy it...

Nah, it says something much more mundane to me... it seems to suggest if the Watsonian/Blairite element of the Labour Party succeed in taking the Party into a pronounced pro Remain stance, they'll lose the majority of their actual voters.  That's what those polls suggest to me.  
But the party doesn't seem to care.  Better to get back the Blairite upper-class 'working-class' vote than to embrace the revolutionary Corbynite masses.  

It is a laugh.  A Labour Party terrified of its own voters, its own history, its own 'class'.

Think Brexit as a GE vote motivator is being overrated...

Last Election wasn't a Brexit Election although it was called as one...LABOUR were all over the place then...

I imagine suffering Schools...The NHS and record poverty worry People...

Worries me..

...all tied in to politicians being too distracted and wasting too much political energy on Brexit.

The public know this.  The Nation is stalled because of Brexit.  Brexit is therefore main issue for the public.  Solving it gets them their politicians back to genuine interest in National issues.

So away the show goes again....who are you voting for?  A party that wants to Remain or one that wants to Leave. I believe that's the main event come a GE. Labour knows they have to get off the fence.  It appears they will be dropping on the Remain side.

I'm not sure it's even totally clear now. Still seem to be trying to appease everyone

Watched the Debate last night and gazed on in awe as Johnson made a complete prat of himself....Unruly..uncontrollable..Meaningless PR drivel after drivel...Frankly embarrassing..

This guy is PM in two weeks..

If 70% of Tories hadn't already voted this Ambassador resignation could have been a problem for Johnson..

Johnson refusing to back a UK civil servant incase he offends the Anus in the White House. Is this what sovereignty is?

2 very informative reads on Brexit, by Sir Ivan Rogers:

Dec 2018 (assessing the UK's different options): https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/
June 2019 (more detail on WTO brexit): https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/ivan-rogers-no-deal-is-now-the-most-likely-outcome/

Long pieces, but they will both be worth your time.
Objective, realistic, pragmatic analysis; makes a nice change from the hysteria we see from both sides.

It Must Be Love wrote:2 very informative reads on Brexit, by Sir Ivan Rogers:

Dec 2018 (assessing the UK's different options): https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/
June 2019 (more detail on WTO brexit): https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/ivan-rogers-no-deal-is-now-the-most-likely-outcome/

Long pieces, but they will both be worth your time.
Objective, realistic, pragmatic analysis; makes a nice change from the hysteria we see from both sides.

Good reads; thanks for linking them. Sobering, but I doubt it'll change the pro-Brexit opinions of those that appear to matter or those that support them.

Just out of interest,
When's he going to have time to fit in a general election before next year.
He's not going to be taking over till the end of this month (if he wins).
Parliament is on summer Recess till beginning of September then. Party Conferences are in sept.
And he has to draft a complete new deal about Brexit (if he wants to), by end of October. Or be setting up WTO deals as soon as we leave.

Tories lose Brecon in a few weeks he has a majority of 3 with the DUP....He says I can't get a good deal through the Commons with this.

Now pick me or Corbyn to get a deal....Don't forget new leaders tend to get a honeymoon period.

He has to take on Corbyn...Because he'd lose to anyone else. Corbyn will retire next year I imagine if he hasn't been booted out..

Anyway only half of the Tories have voted and Boris campaign is a disaster..

Wouldn't rule an upset out completely.

Oh I can see Hunt winning. Boris only really appeals to the Tory members.
But still think if they are calling a ge, it won't be before Feb next year. With the premises that only they can sort it out.

navyblueshorts wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:2 very informative reads on Brexit, by Sir Ivan Rogers:

Dec 2018 (assessing the UK's different options): https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/
June 2019 (more detail on WTO brexit): https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/ivan-rogers-no-deal-is-now-the-most-likely-outcome/

Long pieces, but they will both be worth your time.
Objective, realistic, pragmatic analysis; makes a nice change from the hysteria we see from both sides.

Good reads; thanks for linking them. Sobering, but I doubt it'll change the pro-Brexit opinions of those that appear to matter or those that support them.

Most welcome. At some point people are going to have to recognise reality. Both 2nd ref and No Deal Brexit are bad options for the country. There are no easy choices.

I understand that most people seem to think it's mostly the other side of the debate that is mostly guilty of failing to recognise reality.....

.... but if ever there was an argument that describes just how convoluted, long winded, complexity-loaded, biased based 'objectivity'-laced the entire Brexit battle has been and continues to be, that second linked article from Ivan Rogers is it!  What a heavy duty trawl!

And what is the conclusion?  "There are no easy choices".

Everyone agrees that the choices aren't easy yet still think their favourite solution is the only one that makes sense.  Back to Square One.  Everybody wants everybody else to see sense but as soon as they themselves are accused of having not too much of it...it's back to Square One.  Everybody thinks compromise is the only adult, responsible attitude to have as long as the compromise fall on their side of the fence.... back to Square One.

SecretFly, he laid out a very strong case as to how a WTO Brexit is a bad outcome for the UK as it reduces our leverage in future trade negotiations, as well as harming our economy.
Do you have any rebuttal to specific points raised?

I agree with your general point on how both sides try to claim their solution is the only reasonable one. That being said, a No Deal Brexit has been savaged by even reasonable Brexit supporting economists. The only way one could support No Deal Brexit is either ignorance, or as a ploy by politicians to avoid accountability (by moving the goalposts to such extremes that no responsible PM would endorse the policy, they can claim that Brexit would have been fine as long as their 'pure' version had been implemented).

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Interesting polls..

Comres
Lab 28
Con 25

Comres...If Boris were PM ??
Con 32
Lab 25

Comres....If Hunt were PM ?
Con 27
Lab 27

Really says something when a Misogynistic...Racist Fraud...Chucks up a few bollox No deal scenarios and some usually intelligent people buy it...

Scots know better. In a recent poll on independence Yes stood at 49% and No at 51%. The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

It just serves to demonstrate the huge differences in political views Scotland has compared to the Tories. All smart money says the thousands of Tory members will vote Coco the Clown in as the next PM whereas Scots certainly would not.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

It just serves to demonstrate the huge differences in political views Scotland has compared to the Tories. All smart money says the thousands of Tory members will vote Coco the Clown in as the next PM whereas Scots certainly would not.

Wasn't Alex Salmond supposed to be Coco the Clown?  And what is it about fishy people getting to be leader of the SNP?  Anyway we know you want Independence - and good luck with that.  If a Boris Johnson Prime Minister makes it easier to sell a second Scottish Independence Referendum and Scottish Independence then I have no issue with that.  I see no reason why the United Kingdom shouldn't be broken up, with the introduction of hard borders, separate currencies and separate militaries.  But I suspect it will be a watered down type of independence.

ps Would Scots Gaelic be introduced as the national language of an Independent Scotland?
pps: Did the Norman Barons take over Scotland in the same way they took over the 'English' (and Welsh)?

No name Bertie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

It just serves to demonstrate the huge differences in political views Scotland has compared to the Tories. All smart money says the thousands of Tory members will vote Coco the Clown in as the next PM whereas Scots certainly would not.

Wasn't Alex Salmond supposed to be Coco the Clown?  And what is it about fishy people getting to be leader of the SNP?  Anyway we know you want Independence - and good luck with that.  If a Boris Johnson Prime Minister makes it easier to sell a second Scottish Independence Referendum and Scottish Independence then I have no issue with that.  I see no reason why the United Kingdom shouldn't be broken up, with the introduction of hard borders, separate currencies and separate militaries.  But I suspect it will be a watered down type of independence.

ps Would Scots Gaelic be introduced as the national language of an Independent Scotland?  
pps: Did the Norman Barons take over Scotland in the same way they took over the 'English' (and Welsh)?

No it wasn't. Be original and think up your own names for people. Coco the Clown is my name for BJ who is a clown figure. He dresses and acts like a clown and that hair- one big joke. Just look at his nasty comments against various people of certain race and creed. He should not even be in politics such is his poison let alone PM.

And just to explain to you that Scots that seek independence seek a chance had by most countries in this vast world. A chance of self-governance. To be governed by a government of our choice alone. The chance to decide alone on the path it takes in this world and not led around by the sheer, utter and complete incompetence of Westminster rule. If Scotland is to make errors taking tge independence route then fine - at least we are in control of our own decisions unlike now.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

It just serves to demonstrate the huge differences in political views Scotland has compared to the Tories. All smart money says the thousands of Tory members will vote Coco the Clown in as the next PM whereas Scots certainly would not.

Wasn't Alex Salmond supposed to be Coco the Clown?  And what is it about fishy people getting to be leader of the SNP?  Anyway we know you want Independence - and good luck with that.  If a Boris Johnson Prime Minister makes it easier to sell a second Scottish Independence Referendum and Scottish Independence then I have no issue with that.  I see no reason why the United Kingdom shouldn't be broken up, with the introduction of hard borders, separate currencies and separate militaries.  But I suspect it will be a watered down type of independence.

ps Would Scots Gaelic be introduced as the national language of an Independent Scotland?  
pps: Did the Norman Barons take over Scotland in the same way they took over the 'English' (and Welsh)?

No it wasn't. Be original and think up your own names for people. Coco the Clown is my name for BJ who is a clown figure. He dresses and acts like a clown and that hair- one big joke. Just look at his nasty comments against various people of certain race and creed. He should not even be in politics such is his poison let alone PM.

And just to explain to you that Scots that seek independence seek a chance had by most countries in this vast world. A chance of self-governance. To be governed by a government of our choice alone. The chance to decide alone on the path it takes in this world and not led around by the sheer, utter and complete incompetence of Westminster rule. If Scotland is to make errors taking tge independence route then fine - at least we are in control of our own decisions unlike now.

I don't think you are being original at all - but I'll leave it there. But note you are making a claim to "we" and "you" (us and them) and attaching a great deal of emotion to those distinctions.

One use of 'we' and in the correct context.

Survation
Lab 29 +3
Con 23 -1

Comres
Lab 28 =
Con 24 -1

After a week of Antisemitism 24/7 one wonders if people are moving on and have had enough.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Survation
Lab 29 +3
Con 23 -1

Comres
Lab 28 =
Con 24 -1

After a week of Antisemitism 24/7 one wonders if people are moving on and have had enough.

In terms of the British Electorate - few people are affected by or are really interested in the issue of anti-semitism.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

It just serves to demonstrate the huge differences in political views Scotland has compared to the Tories. All smart money says the thousands of Tory members will vote Coco the Clown in as the next PM whereas Scots certainly would not.

Wasn't Alex Salmond supposed to be Coco the Clown?  And what is it about fishy people getting to be leader of the SNP?  Anyway we know you want Independence - and good luck with that.  If a Boris Johnson Prime Minister makes it easier to sell a second Scottish Independence Referendum and Scottish Independence then I have no issue with that.  I see no reason why the United Kingdom shouldn't be broken up, with the introduction of hard borders, separate currencies and separate militaries.  But I suspect it will be a watered down type of independence.

ps Would Scots Gaelic be introduced as the national language of an Independent Scotland?  
pps: Did the Norman Barons take over Scotland in the same way they took over the 'English' (and Welsh)?

No it wasn't. Be original and think up your own names for people. Coco the Clown is my name for BJ who is a clown figure. He dresses and acts like a clown and that hair- one big joke. Just look at his nasty comments against various people of certain race and creed. He should not even be in politics such is his poison let alone PM.

And just to explain to you that Scots that seek independence seek a chance had by most countries in this vast world. A chance of self-governance. To be governed by a government of our choice alone. The chance to decide alone on the path it takes in this world and not led around by the sheer, utter and complete incompetence of Westminster rule. If Scotland is to make errors taking tge independence route then fine - at least we are in control of our own decisions unlike now.

Yeah! You'll never take our freedom! While we're at it, let's have the Kingdom of Wessex back too, and the Tudors and Lancasters. The idea that once you're independent, you'll all be getting a Government of your choice is as farcical as it's possible to be. I don't suppose Liverpool voted Tory, but they have to put up with it; same as you do. No doubt an Indy Scotland would want to join the EU and adopt the Euro? That's independent .

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

It just serves to demonstrate the huge differences in political views Scotland has compared to the Tories. All smart money says the thousands of Tory members will vote Coco the Clown in as the next PM whereas Scots certainly would not.

Wasn't Alex Salmond supposed to be Coco the Clown?  And what is it about fishy people getting to be leader of the SNP?  Anyway we know you want Independence - and good luck with that.  If a Boris Johnson Prime Minister makes it easier to sell a second Scottish Independence Referendum and Scottish Independence then I have no issue with that.  I see no reason why the United Kingdom shouldn't be broken up, with the introduction of hard borders, separate currencies and separate militaries.  But I suspect it will be a watered down type of independence.

ps Would Scots Gaelic be introduced as the national language of an Independent Scotland?  
pps: Did the Norman Barons take over Scotland in the same way they took over the 'English' (and Welsh)?

No it wasn't. Be original and think up your own names for people. Coco the Clown is my name for BJ who is a clown figure. He dresses and acts like a clown and that hair- one big joke. Just look at his nasty comments against various people of certain race and creed. He should not even be in politics such is his poison let alone PM.

And just to explain to you that Scots that seek independence seek a chance had by most countries in this vast world. A chance of self-governance. To be governed by a government of our choice alone. The chance to decide alone on the path it takes in this world and not led around by the sheer, utter and complete incompetence of Westminster rule. If Scotland is to make errors taking tge independence route then fine - at least we are in control of our own decisions unlike now.

Yeah! You'll never take our freedom! While we're at it, let's have the Kingdom of Wessex back too, and the Tudors and Lancasters. The idea that once you're independent, you'll all be getting a Government of your choice is as farcical as it's possible to be. I don't suppose Liverpool voted Tory, but they have to put up with it; same as you do. No doubt an Indy Scotland would want to join the EU and adopt the Euro? That's independent .

Hmm I have scoured all calendars etc and do you know what I have never found that new bank holiday yet of UK Independence Day for when the UK voted to leave the EU? I wonder why? The answer is simple in that the UK was always an independent country in the EU.

Let us see now. The UK chose not to join the EURO. It was not foisted on them so that alone demonstrates independence. It chose to wage a war based on lies in the Middle East despite the EU not backing it. Would a non-independent country be able to make that choice? Of course not. It also had its vote on Brexit at a time of it's own choosing without any need of approval from the EU. Again demonstrating its independence unlike the options currently available to Scotland - a non- independent country.

Hmm never knew the Tudors and Lancasters or Merseyside were ever a stand alone country like Scotland. But hey ho if there is the hunger and ambition within those areas for it then they should be free to try but that same hunger evidently is not there on the scale that it is in Scotland.

Like I say the genie of independence thinking Scots escaped the bottle decades ago now and the cap for the bottle has been lost. The support for independence is only heading one way as all polls suggest

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm I have scoured all calendars etc and do you know what I have never found that new bank holiday yet of UK Independence Day for when the UK voted to leave the EU? I wonder why?

'Cos we haven't left yet.

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm I have scoured all calendars etc and do you know what I have never found that new bank holiday yet of UK Independence Day for when the UK voted to leave the EU? I wonder why?

'Cos we haven't left yet.

True. Do you care to wager that bank holiday will never come about on the grounds that as proven above that UK was always an independent country in or out of the EU?

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm I have scoured all calendars etc and do you know what I have never found that new bank holiday yet of UK Independence Day for when the UK voted to leave the EU? I wonder why?

'Cos we haven't left yet.

True. Do you care to wager that bank holiday will never come about on the grounds that as proven above that UK was always an independent country in or out of the EU?

The UK does not have supreme law-making power, hence it is not an independent country.

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm I have scoured all calendars etc and do you know what I have never found that new bank holiday yet of UK Independence Day for when the UK voted to leave the EU? I wonder why?

'Cos we haven't left yet.

True. Do you care to wager that bank holiday will never come about on the grounds that as proven above that UK was always an independent country in or out of the EU?

The UK does not have supreme law-making power, hence it is not an independent country.

Aww Frak me not this again.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:The poll also asked about independence if BJ becomes PM. If memory serves Yes polled 54% No 46%.

Fingers crossed for a Boris victory, then!

It just serves to demonstrate the huge differences in political views Scotland has compared to the Tories. All smart money says the thousands of Tory members will vote Coco the Clown in as the next PM whereas Scots certainly would not.

Wasn't Alex Salmond supposed to be Coco the Clown?  And what is it about fishy people getting to be leader of the SNP?  Anyway we know you want Independence - and good luck with that.  If a Boris Johnson Prime Minister makes it easier to sell a second Scottish Independence Referendum and Scottish Independence then I have no issue with that.  I see no reason why the United Kingdom shouldn't be broken up, with the introduction of hard borders, separate currencies and separate militaries.  But I suspect it will be a watered down type of independence.

ps Would Scots Gaelic be introduced as the national language of an Independent Scotland?  
pps: Did the Norman Barons take over Scotland in the same way they took over the 'English' (and Welsh)?

No it wasn't. Be original and think up your own names for people. Coco the Clown is my name for BJ who is a clown figure. He dresses and acts like a clown and that hair- one big joke. Just look at his nasty comments against various people of certain race and creed. He should not even be in politics such is his poison let alone PM.

And just to explain to you that Scots that seek independence seek a chance had by most countries in this vast world. A chance of self-governance. To be governed by a government of our choice alone. The chance to decide alone on the path it takes in this world and not led around by the sheer, utter and complete incompetence of Westminster rule. If Scotland is to make errors taking tge independence route then fine - at least we are in control of our own decisions unlike now.

Yeah! You'll never take our freedom! While we're at it, let's have the Kingdom of Wessex back too, and the Tudors and Lancasters. The idea that once you're independent, you'll all be getting a Government of your choice is as farcical as it's possible to be. I don't suppose Liverpool voted Tory, but they have to put up with it; same as you do. No doubt an Indy Scotland would want to join the EU and adopt the Euro? That's independent .

Hmm I have scoured all calendars etc and do you know what I have never found that new bank holiday yet of UK Independence Day for when the UK voted to leave the EU? I wonder why? The answer is simple in that the UK was always an independent country in the EU.

Let us see now. The UK chose not to join the EURO. It was not foisted on them so that alone demonstrates independence. It chose to wage a war based on lies in the Middle East despite the EU not backing it. Would a non-independent country be able to make that choice? Of course not. It also had its vote on Brexit at a time of it's own choosing without any need of approval from the EU. Again demonstrating its independence unlike the options currently available to Scotland - a non- independent country.

Hmm never knew the Tudors and Lancasters or Merseyside were ever a stand alone country like Scotland. But hey ho if there is the hunger and ambition within those areas for it then they should be free to try but that same hunger evidently is not there on the scale that it is in Scotland.

Like I say the genie of independence thinking Scots escaped the bottle decades ago now and the cap for the bottle has been lost. The support for independence is only heading one way as all polls suggest

Never mind...

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm I have scoured all calendars etc and do you know what I have never found that new bank holiday yet of UK Independence Day for when the UK voted to leave the EU? I wonder why?

'Cos we haven't left yet.

True. Do you care to wager that bank holiday will never come about on the grounds that as proven above that UK was always an independent country in or out of the EU?

The UK does not have supreme law-making power, hence it is not an independent country.

The mark of an independent country is one that can make choices for itself. In the EU the UK chose not to use the Euro. It chose to wage a war based on lies in the Middle East and it chose to hold a referendum at the time of its choice without EU permission on its future in the EU. Whereas Scotland cannot hold a referendum on independence without the say so of Westminster.

CaledonianCraig wrote:In the EU the UK chose not to use the Euro. Whereas Scotland cannot hold a referendum on independence without the say so of Westminster.

Such a 'choice' won't be open to Scotland if they exit the UK and re-join the EU.

The second point is not definitely true. Scotland might be able to hold a referendum without the say-so of Westminster, but it would need to go to court to decide. I believe the SNP are already working on this anyway.

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2012/01/31/gavin-anderson-et-al-the-independence-referendum-legality-and-the-contested-constitution-widening-the-debate/
https://fullfact.org/law/can-scotland-legally-hold-another-referendum/