How will Schmidt's Head Coach decision impact on Ireland?

First topic message reminder :

Joe Schmidt has said he will announce his decision about whether he will go or stay with Irish Rugby on Monday 26 Nov following the completion of the November tests.

Lots of media speculation thinks that he will say he is leaving and the obvious destination is New Zealand where he is considered a likely successor to Steve Hansen.  Hansen has said that he will make an announcement about his future before Christmas and clearly Schmidt's announcement will put the spotlight on him.   One assumes that all the relevant parties and unions know what is happening already and the various announcements are being choreographed accordingly.  

If Hansen and Schmidt were staying put then it would be straightforward enough to issue releases on the same day and everybody moves on quite quickly.
If Schmidt is leaving and putting himself in the frame for the top job in NZ then he can't say anything about what he's going to do to allow NZRU to choreograph announcement of Hansen's departure and his successor so other NZ coach hopefuls are not put out.
If Schmidt is staying and Hansen is leaving, with another successor to be appointed like Warren Gatland, then it makes sense to keep the two announcements apart.

There has been a procession of Irish players speaking out to media in recent weeks lauding Schmidt and what he's achieved and expressing hope that he stays.   It raises the question that if Schmidt announces he's leaving how might this impact on morale for the team in the run-up to the RWC?  Will it make them more determined to deliver for him, or will it undermine some of the wider squad players who may see their future lies with someone else?

Is all this common knowledge or do some people sort through bins to get this information?

Cyril wrote:Is all this common knowledge or do some people sort through bins to get this information?

Yes. All common knowledge. ROG has been doing some Q&As recently on Off the Ball and others.

He is very interesting on NZ rugby.

Cyril wrote:Is all this common knowledge or do some people sort through bins to get this information?

Don’t worry Cy, it’s all a hodgepodge of innuendo, guesswork, attached to some facts and liberally sprinkled with authoritative wild stabs in the dark. And a few orange peels, tea leaves and kumquat seeds from the bins.

Schmexit

rodders wrote:

eirebilly wrote:How and why Payne rodders?

Well if Farrell moves to the head job then I presume there will be a defensive vacancy. Payne is the obvious choice given he was fast tracked into coaching by Joe and Nucifera.

Not sure I would agree that he is the obvious choice. Think he needs to get a few years under his belt first in provincial/club rugby first before going straight into the Irish set up.
ROG said that he was hesitant to be involved with Munster or Ireland until all his peers had retired and he had a bit more experience.

Then ROG has a big problem because he'll be very grey indeed before all his peers from Munster retire.

Anyway, the more I decipher what ROG says over the years, I don't think he really wants to include a stint back in Munster at all on his way to perhaps International involvement in some Nation at some level.

It's like school.... you have an initial feeling that it was the best days of your life and you're gonna miss all your friends, but a few months away from it and you don't want to even drive past the place anymore.  There's just that big 'The Past' shiver when you think about it.  I think maybe ROG has that feeling.  Who knows, maybe even Paulie has that feeling and perhaps will never return (to coach, that is).

Cullen probably did it the only way that works.... don't leave at all, start your coaching career instantly in the place you played.

I think ROG is doing things perfectly regarding his future coaching career. Getting experience in France and NZ, that to me, is absolutely ideal.

It might be ideal. I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm saying his career from here on in may not necessarily include a stint back at Munster at all. That's what I'm saying.

ROG's reluctance was only as Head Coach (when selection would come into play). ROG has already been Sexton and Donnacha Ryan's coach in Racing. FFS, Dan Carter recommended him to the Crusaders.

ROG won't be staying in NZ - its too far away from aging parents. His eldest kids will also be starting secondary school soon and he has indicated that they want that to be in Ireland.

Fly, ROG said recently that he wants to coach Munster in the future. From what I glean from what he says is that his wife has given him a free pass to go and do whatever he wants until the kids get to an age where they need to be settled for a period of time for their education. They are obviously very keen on education (his wife is a teacher), as when ROG finished up NZ for the summer, they moved back to Paris so the kids could go to school there until Christmas and so to continue to improve their French.

Jess is a very strong willed lady so I am sure ROG will do exactly what he is told

So, ROG has thrown his hat in the ring!

https://www.the42.ie/ronan-ogara-interested-in-joining-ireland-backroom-team-4365962-Nov2018/

Sin é wrote:So, ROG has thrown his hat in the ring!

https://www.the42.ie/ronan-ogara-interested-in-joining-ireland-backroom-team-4365962-Nov2018/

Think its an urgent need to offload his Crusaders ‘life changing’ experience.

Think it’s a case of overreaction from every media outlet, hack, pundit and excitable fans.

Thankfully, club rugby will take centre stage this weekend and Heineken Cup is coming up. Life will almost seem normal.

Sin é wrote:So, ROG has thrown his hat in the ring!

https://www.the42.ie/ronan-ogara-interested-in-joining-ireland-backroom-team-4365962-Nov2018/

That's not how I read it at all. I think it was more one day when I'm ready Id like to be involved.

Nothing against Rog but I personally don't think he is experienced enough for the Ireland job yet. I don't think he speaks with enough authority to be a Ireland coach or assistant coach and that takes time and experience.

Lancaster, Roundtree and Payne are joining Farrell and Easterbuy after the RWC, you heard it here first.

Is Easterbuy as good as Mike Black Friday?

The Great Aukster wrote:Is Easterbuy as good as Mike Black Friday?

Not sure about that but I've a fiver on him for the Ulster job when they sack McFarland.

rodders wrote:Lancaster, Roundtree and Payne are joining Farrell and Easterbuy after the RWC, you heard it here first.

 What responsibilities would they each have? Feels like a few too many chefs.

Pot Hale wrote:Think it’s a case of overreaction from every media outlet, hack, pundit and excitable fans.  

Thankfully, club rugby will take centre stage this weekend and Heineken Cup is coming up.   Life will almost seem normal.  

So you're looking to be Ireland's Strength and Fitness Coach now, Pot???

Jesus, everyone wants a job with that outfit.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, ROG has thrown his hat in the ring!

https://www.the42.ie/ronan-ogara-interested-in-joining-ireland-backroom-team-4365962-Nov2018/

That's not how I read it at all. I think it was more one day when I'm ready Id like to be involved.

Nothing against Rog but I personally don't think he is experienced enough for the Ireland job yet. I don't think he speaks with enough authority to be a Ireland coach or assistant coach and that takes time and experience.

He has said recently that his wife wants to come home to be near her elderly parents and for their kids secondary education. How much experience did Greg Feek or Simon Easterby have before they joined Ireland. ROG has a Top 14, Champs Cup Final and a Super Rugby title to his name as a backs coach, having played and worked in 3 different countries. He would only be an Assistant Coach, not head coach. Simon Easterby had only played and coached one club and they were not great during his time there.

LondonTiger wrote:

rodders wrote:Lancaster, Roundtree and Payne are joining Farrell and Easterbuy after the RWC, you heard it here first.

 What responsibilities would they each have? Feels like a few too many chefs.

Rodders is from the Woodward school of coaching.

Lancaster will be backs coach. Roundtree will be clipper board coach, and Payne will be Pen Holder coach.

Easterby had experience as head coach of Scarlets. Feek was just a scrum coach.

Sin é wrote:

He has said recently that his wife wants to come home to be near her elderly parents and for their kids secondary education. How much experience did Greg Feek or Simon Easterby have before they joined Ireland. ROG has a Top 14, Champs Cup Final and a Super Rugby title to his name as a backs coach, having played and worked in 3 different countries. He would only be an Assistant Coach, not head coach. Simon Easterby had only played and coached one club and they were not great during his time there.

ROG needs to play harder to get. If he keeps this up, the IRFU boys will take him on as an non-paid Intern.

He should have the experience by now to do this with more guile. He was playing a blinder when he was spoofing about the Change in the World Time Dynamic Coefficient of Light Particles in a Medium of Pure Olive Oil that his experiences in New Zealand have taught him. If he kept that stuff up, he'd have the IRFU asking Jeff Bezos to fund ROG's 300Million fee.

Collapse2005 wrote:Easterby had experience as head coach of Scarlets. Feek was just a scrum coach.

Easterby had very limited experience and Scarlets were not pulling up too many trees back then when he was in charge. Feek just a scrum coach? ROG would be just a Backs/Defence coach. Farrell has got the top job.

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

rodders wrote:Lancaster, Roundtree and Payne are joining Farrell and Easterbuy after the RWC, you heard it here first.

 What responsibilities would they each have? Feels like a few too many chefs.

Rodders is from the Woodward school of coaching.  

Absolutely, always take the 3 points.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

rodders wrote:Lancaster, Roundtree and Payne are joining Farrell and Easterbuy after the RWC, you heard it here first.

 What responsibilities would they each have? Feels like a few too many chefs.

Rodders is from the Woodward school of coaching.  

Absolutely, always take the 3 points.

Actually a brilliant idea, Rodders. You always have the finger on the pulse.... sometimes a little heavy handed and close to cutting off the blood supply completely.....
BUT...........

yes, indeed. That's the missing ingredient that needs fixing. Jonny Wilkinson in as Kicking Coach! We do that and the WC is in the bag!

How many coaches is that now? Have we reached our 74 limit yet?

Sin é wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Easterby had experience as head coach of Scarlets. Feek was just a scrum coach.

Easterby had very limited experience and Scarlets were not pulling up too many trees back then when he was in charge. Feek just a scrum coach? ROG would be just a Backs/Defence coach. Farrell has got the top job.

Farrell has been on two Lions tours and coached with Ireland and England before getting a top job. Easterby did have head coach experience though although I did think he was a bit inexperienced alright. I personally think that anytime I hear Rog speak its almost as if he knows he isn't ready yet himself.

Ready for what?

If you listen to what he has had to say at some of those Q&As recently, he is well ready to come back to Ireland. With two years as the Crusaders Backs coach, he will be more than up to being Ireland's backs coach.

Id much rather someone with more experience be backs coach.

Collapse2005 wrote:Id much rather someone with more experience be backs coach.

Like who?

Someone like Lancaster but maybe not lancaster

Think I'd like to keep a strong Kiwi presence in the coaching set-up...just so as things don't become too Northern Hemispherey again in total philosophy. We all know that Irish sides seem to function better when there is a kiss of Kiwi involvement.

So............... ask Farrell not to be so quick in his choice of assistants that might either come from here (Ireland) or indeed his own Nation England. Look around the Super Rugby fraternity, see who might be willing to progress their careers now into International and away from home. Diversity of impetus and style.

Lancaster seems to be a good option okay if he was interested but I think Farrell should think first about the dynamic he wants and how best he would gain experiences from both Hemispheres.

SecretFly wrote:So............... ask Farrell not to be so quick in his choice of assistants that might either come from here (Ireland) or indeed his own Nation England.  Look around the Super Rugby fraternity, see who might be willing to progress their careers now into International and away from home.  Diversity of impetus and style.

Would Hansen be interested?

SecretFly wrote:Think I'd like to keep a strong Kiwi presence in the coaching set-up...just so as things don't become too Northern Hemispherey again in total philosophy.  We all know that Irish sides seem to function better when there is a kiss of Kiwi involvement.

So............... ask Farrell not to be so quick in his choice of assistants that might either come from here (Ireland) or indeed his own Nation England.  Look around the Super Rugby fraternity, see who might be willing to progress their careers now into International and away from home.  Diversity of impetus and style.

Lancaster seems to be a good option okay if he was interested but I think Farrell should think first about the dynamic he wants and how best he would gain experiences from both Hemispheres.

Really? Do you remember Murray kidd?

Hanson was a flop the last time he coached in the NH

Collapse2005 wrote:Hanson was a flop the last time he coached in the NH

Against Italy?

... and he would only be an assistant to Farrell

Collapse2005 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Think I'd like to keep a strong Kiwi presence in the coaching set-up...just so as things don't become too Northern Hemispherey again in total philosophy.  We all know that Irish sides seem to function better when there is a kiss of Kiwi involvement.

So............... ask Farrell not to be so quick in his choice of assistants that might either come from here (Ireland) or indeed his own Nation England.  Look around the Super Rugby fraternity, see who might be willing to progress their careers now into International and away from home.  Diversity of impetus and style.

Lancaster seems to be a good option okay if he was interested but I think Farrell should think first about the dynamic he wants and how best he would gain experiences from both Hemispheres.

Really? Do you remember Murray kidd?

Even Murray Kidd doesn't remember Murray Kidd.

My preference for a Kiwi element still stands - Murray Kidd need not apply.

Collapse2005 wrote:Hanson was a flop the last time he coached in the NH

He wasn't actually. Ruddock might have been the beneficiary of Henry & Hansen't groundwork.

Sin é wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Hanson was a flop the last time he coached in the NH

He wasn't actually. Ruddock might have been the beneficiary of Henry & Hansen't groundwork.

Well we hope we're not saying the same about the coaches who will now follow Farrell. I only have one life... I'd like to see Biggly success continuing for perhaps another decade.

Sin é wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Hanson was a flop the last time he coached in the NH

He wasn't actually. Ruddock might have been the beneficiary of Henry & Hansen't groundwork.

That's a bit of a stretch.

Under Hansen Wales only won games against Canada, Fiji, Italy, Romania, Scotland and Tonga for a 33% win rate. They lost to everyone else in all 30 games he was in charge.

Wales finished 5th in his first year, last in his second year and 4th in his final year. Consistently poor results.

I think the grand slam the year after he left was more of a reflection that he was gone and someone better came in than good work he had done. Id accept your theory if he had at least 1 win against a good side but he didn't.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Hanson was a flop the last time he coached in the NH

He wasn't actually. Ruddock might have been the beneficiary of Henry & Hansen't groundwork.

That's a bit of a stretch.

Under Hansen Wales only won games against Canada, Fiji, Italy, Romania, Scotland and Tonga for a 33% win rate. They lost to everyone else in all 30 games he was in charge.

Wales finished 5th in his first year, last in his second year and 4th in his final year. Consistently poor results.

I think the grand slam the year after he left was more of a reflection that he was gone and someone better came in than good work he had done. Id accept your theory if he had at least 1 win against a good side but he didn't.

I kinda agree with you on the reflection, Guns.  Keeps leading me back to why he'd quickly get AB assistant and then have the main job for so long?  He wasn't exactly a massively influential and successful coach with Wales.
I keep hinting that he's a nice figurehead for a Nation that has the detail wrapped up by the real innovators who operate levels below the affirmed 'Head coach'.  That doesn't really go down all that smoothly with some of the Kiwi posters here but......................  I think the ABs like Figure Head Leaders rather than individuals who come in with too much Individual drive.  It's a symbiotic Nationwide operation.  

Maybe too that's why Schmidt wouldn't have been overly sought and maybe it's why he would think the job isn't really for him either. But we shall see.........

Collapse2005 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Hanson was a flop the last time he coached in the NH

He wasn't actually. Ruddock might have been the beneficiary of Henry & Hansen't groundwork.

That's a bit of a stretch.

Under Hansen Wales only won games against Canada, Fiji, Italy, Romania, Scotland and Tonga for a 33% win rate. They lost to everyone else in all 30 games he was in charge.

Wales finished 5th in his first year, last in his second year and 4th in his final year. Consistently poor results.

I think the grand slam the year after he left was more of a reflection that he was gone and someone better came in than good work he had done. Id accept your theory if he had at least 1 win against a good side but he didn't.

Henry and Hansen had to change a whole philosophy when they went to Wales. It took time.

What exactly did they change?

Gatland made more changes than anyone quicker than anyone and he won the 6 nations in his first year. Same with Schmidt for brains in his first year.

Collapse2005 wrote:What exactly did they change?

From being totally crap to eventually winning a few things.

Both Henry & Hansen have won world cups as coaches.

Sin é wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:What exactly did they change?

From being totally crap to eventually winning a few things.

Both Henry & Hansen have won world cups as coaches.

Yeah not with Wales though. My point was they were both flops when they were there. I remember Ireland absolutely thrashing Wales in Henry's last year. It was one of the worst hidings I can ever remember in the six nations. Both England and Ireland put 50 points on Wales that year. Total flop.

rodders wrote:Lancaster, Roundtree and Payne are joining Farrell and Easterbuy after the RWC, you heard it here first.

I can't see it tbh although it would make a great story and be rather embarassing for the RFU who threw the baby out with the bath and the bath water when they ditched Faz.

Maybe Burgess will join up with his great men too.

Hansen to me seems to have got the top Job in NZ because he was assistant.  He seems to only have got the assistant role because Henry picked him.

Henry won the world cup because the rules were changed to counter act the strenght of the SA game plan.  Add in that it was at home and they had some favourable decisions in the final means he might not have been that amazing.  And he also got two bites at the cherry.

Like at Wales Hansen has just carried on Henry's plan with NZ.  The fact that Hansen could only beat Italy and a terrible Scotland yet the new coach won a slam tells you everything.  Hansen and Henry improved the skills but so did the Pro10.

Brendan wrote:Hansen to me seems to have got the top Job in NZ because he was assistant.  He seems to only have got the assistant role because Henry picked him.

Henry won the world cup because the rules were changed to counter act the strenght of the SA game plan.  Add in that it was at home and they had some favourable decisions in the final means he might not have been that amazing.  And he also got two bites at the cherry.

Like at Wales Hansen has just carried on Henry's plan with NZ.  The fact that Hansen could only beat Italy and a terrible Scotland yet the new coach won a slam tells you everything.  Hansen and Henry improved the skills but so did the Pro10.

Well now youre full of it. Lame. Disingenuous post of the usual no idea NH claptrap.

Get your own coaches if you know so much.

Heres a hint. You get our coaches because you dont know how to get results. Lancaster a prime example. In comes the cheeky ozzie and the world changes. Cotter set Scotland on the right path. Gatland got Wales going. Schmidt, well. Say no more. NH commentary about what makes a good coach has very little value.

Something youve demonstratrated perfectly here. No.... idea.

Hansen ‘back to back RWC champion’....enough said. Schmidt giving up coaching to focus on his family? That suggests he’s burning out and if he stayed on as Ireland’s coach it probably wouldn’t have ended well. Gotta have balance. It’s all very well doing an Eddie Jones and having a good year here and there but the best have balance and consistency like Hansen at the ABs.