Brexit

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 07 Nov 2018, 5:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:He doesn't have to 'prove his innocence', that's not how the justice system in this country works.

But it's how the world intends it to work.................... it's probably called neo-socialism - ooh, sex-Y!.
Anti establishment thought crimes to be punishable by no trial and a bullet down some cavernous prison complex dedicated to 're-education' of political dissidents.

Sex crimes as well? I don't see many people one here leaping to Weinstein's defence.
Yep. I would, until and unless he's convicted. Otherwise it's just hearsay and rumour.

So would Arron Banks

Meaning?

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 13 Mar 2019, 12:44 pm

You must be able to see what's been unleashed by this. Bigots everywhere are emboldened now. It's not a coincidence.

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 12:46 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bigots everywhere are emboldened now.

Like who? The 'far-right' and the 'far-left' are as much on the periphery as they have ever been.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 13 Mar 2019, 12:50 pm

I don't recall 'Tommy Robinson' being interviewed on Newsnight before 2016.

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 12:57 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't recall 'Tommy Robinson' being interviewed on Newsnight before 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q96elyZaxq8

by **superflyweight** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 1:10 pm

Nigel Farage swanning about like a man of the people instead of the unashamed xenophobe that he really is. He should be slinking about in grubby dark-net forums trading World War II Nazi memorabilia.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 1:48 pm

I suspect Nige, JR-M etc are coining it in with this process. Allow markets to think/hope one thing, bet against it and then ensure it gets trashed.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 13 Mar 2019, 2:14 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't recall 'Tommy Robinson' being interviewed on Newsnight before 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q96elyZaxq8

Okay, you've got me there.* But he's clearly more prominent now than he was a few years ago.

* - I'm going to assume that's a link to a video of 'Tommy' being interviewed on Newsnight - I don't want to add to the number of views it's had.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 2:48 pm

This whole thread is descending in to a hysterical farce...Like watching the Invasion of the bodysnatchers..

"Look next to you is he bigot ??..Is your work colleague a bigot ??..

All we need is Joe McCarthy coming along..

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:02 pm

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/03/19/hate-crime-did-spike-after-the-referendum-even-allowing-for-other-factors/

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:36 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't recall 'Tommy Robinson' being interviewed on Newsnight before 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q96elyZaxq8

Okay, you've got me there.* But he's clearly more prominent now than he was a few years ago.

* - I'm going to assume that's a link to a video of 'Tommy' being interviewed on Newsnight - I don't want to add to the number of views it's had.

Haha.

I don't think he is more prominent, actually. In the early 2010s, he had an entire Channel 4 show dedicated to him, and made appearances on the BBC show 'Free Speech' as well as 'The Big Questions', was leader of a notorious street movement, spoke at the Oxford Union, and published an autobiographical book in 2015. I think he was interviewed on Sunday Politics and Newsnight around that time as well. Since then, he's mainly been in the news for being thrown off social media platforms or for being in jail.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:55 pm

You seem to have been following his career quite closely.... Whistle

by **superflyweight** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:58 pm

Funny that.

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 4:03 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You seem to have been following his career quite closely....

Had a quick look on Wikipedia. It's rare to hear anything about Tommy Robinson on the news nowadays, even rarer to see him pop up on some political show or the other, so I certainly don't think he's more prominent these days.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 4:08 pm

He hasn't has a hit in years. I believe he still performs 'Sing if You're Glad to Be Gay' in concert, although I preferred 'War Baby'.

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 4:10 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:He hasn't has a hit in years. I believe he still performs 'Sing if You're Glad to Be Gay' in concert, although I preferred 'War Baby'.

2-4-6-8 ain't never too late...

by **Hero** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 4:21 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You seem to have been following his career quite closely....

Had a quick look on Wikipedia. It's rare to hear anything about Tommy Robinson on the news nowadays, even rarer to see him pop up on some political show or the other, so I certainly don't think he's more prominent these days.

I think news outlets became aware that the boundaries of hate speech were shifting and that they'd be under scrutiny for airing him. He too became aware that social media rather than traditional media was the new battleground and that he could push his views to his target audience far easier there (until recently).

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 4:40 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:This whole thread is descending in to a hysterical farce...Like watching the Invasion of the bodysnatchers..

"Look next to you is he bigot ??..Is your work colleague a bigot ??..

All we need is Joe McCarthy coming along..

by JDizzle Wed 13 Mar 2019, 6:33 pm

The best thing about Brexit is people didn’t give a Poopie about Europe in 2015 when it was in the Tory manifesto. YouGov did a survey asking people about the three most important issues facing the country and your family in April 2015 - and only 16% and 8% of people said Europe. Why I think if we had any leader with a modicum of gravitas, that they could just say it’s a bloody stupid idea and we can knock it on the head, hardly anyone would bat an eyelid.

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 6:52 pm

JDizzle wrote:The best thing about Brexit is people didn’t give a Poopie about Europe in 2015 when it was in the Tory manifesto. YouGov did a survey asking people about the three most important issues facing the country and your family in April 2015 - and only 16% and 8% of people said Europe. Why I think if we had any leader with a modicum of gravitas, that they could just say it’s a bloody stupid idea and we can knock it on the head, hardly anyone would bat an eyelid.

In terms of turnout % and vote numbers, I believe the EU referendum was the biggest exercise of UK-wide democracy since 1992, but apparently hardly any one cares about it.

by Samo Wed 13 Mar 2019, 7:18 pm

No Deal rejected by 312-308

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 7:37 pm

Samo wrote:No Deal rejected by 312-308

Actually, this vote was just for amendment A to the motion. 308 didn't actually vote for no-deal. Though it is a damaging defeat to May, again.

The main motion is now being voted on, with the amendment implemented. This is where no-deal will be rejected (more decisively than by a majority of 4).

by Samo Wed 13 Mar 2019, 7:51 pm

Ayes 321 Nos 278.

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 7:55 pm

And that's the actual majority after the actual vote. Woeful standards of 'journalism' from the mainstream sites.

Theresa May apparently voted 'no'. Utter farce.

by Samo Wed 13 Mar 2019, 7:59 pm

She whipped her government against itself and still lost. Shambles. Its incredible how she manages to cling on.

by **Hero** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 8:03 pm

There's 4 camps in parliament.

ERG No deal
Mays agreement
Free trade soft Brexit
Remain/New Referendum

Just have a vote with all 4 as options, remove the one with the lowest vote and repeat.

by Samo Wed 13 Mar 2019, 8:29 pm

Its likely she’ll bring her deal back hoping the ERG and DUP will back it otherwise they’ll lose Brexit. Whether Bercow allows her to table up an unchanged deal twice in 8 days is another matter.

by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 9:06 pm

Hero wrote:There's 4 camps in parliament.

ERG No deal
Mays agreement
Free trade soft Brexit
Remain/New Referendum

Just have a vote with all 4 as options, remove the one with the lowest vote and repeat.

In such a case, May's agreement would likely win.

The MPs voting against both May's deal and no deal need to realise that, through doing so, they're only making the latter more likely. Even if extension is voted for tomorrow (I expect it to be) there's absolutely no guarantee that the terms of extension can be agreed between the UK and the EU27 in the 15 days until exit.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 13 Mar 2019, 10:19 pm

MV3...DUP saying they can't vote for the deal with the backstop position as it is....Steve Baker head of ERG saying they still won't vote for this deal..

Labour mps getting cold feet could be the only game in Town..

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 13 Mar 2019, 10:38 pm

BBC -
So "what's going to happen next?" seemed like a reasonable question to a minister.
"I've no idea. Find me someone who has and I'll find you a liar," came the reply.

by dummy_half Wed 13 Mar 2019, 11:30 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:BBC -
So "what's going to happen next?" seemed like a reasonable question to a minister.
"I've no idea. Find me someone who has and I'll find you a liar," came the reply.

That can't be the response of a politician - firstly, it directly answered the question, and secondly it is undoubtedly true...

by **superflyweight** Thu 14 Mar 2019, 9:05 am

If I hear one more politician, journalist or common or garden idiot claim that taking No Deal off the table has weakened Britain's negotiating position, I'm going to the top of the nearest tall building with a high-powered rifle.

No Deal isn't a negotiating chip, it's the worst possible scenario for the UK and the near total lack of planning and contingency arrangements means that it is essentially an act of fiscal suicide.

As a negotiating chip, it's equivalent to a hostage taker threatening to shoot himself in the head if you don't provide him with a big bag of untraceable banknotes in small denominations and a fast helicopter.

Knock yourself out mate!

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2019, 10:16 am

And in addition, the EU know it's a bluff. They know it, we know it, Jacob Rees-Mogg's nanny knows it.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2019, 10:17 am

Also can I apologise if I was rude yesterday. I'm just sad at the state of the UK, caused by something entirely avoidable.

by Samo Thu 14 Mar 2019, 5:35 pm

Powells amendment to set a new Brexit date of 30th June just got defeated by 3 votes. Makes Benns amendment very interesting now, because if it passes we could see Brexit delayed indefinitely, depending on what the EU say to it.

by Samo Thu 14 Mar 2019, 5:54 pm

Amendment defeated 312-314.

by Samo Thu 14 Mar 2019, 6:11 pm

Corbyns amendment defeated aswell. Its all down to the governments final vote now, a one off extension till June 30th, and any extension longer will require Britain to take part in the EU elections.

by Samo Thu 14 Mar 2019, 6:25 pm

Aye 412 No 202. Looks like May will bring her deal back for a third meaningful vote before going to Brussels next Thursday to ask for an extension.

by Duty281 Thu 14 Mar 2019, 6:52 pm

So a good day for the Prime Minister, at last. Motion carried and some pesky amendments defeated.

by No name Bertie Thu 14 Mar 2019, 6:55 pm

Does the EC have powers to give Britain an extension - because if it has to be a unanimous decision by the EU members of state - it is not going to happen.

If the EC does have powers to grant Britain an extension (without going to the member states) will they then attach demands that British Parliament has already rejected (such as demanding a second referendum)?

It seems to me that a no deal Brexit is going to happen on 29th March by default through lack of agreement on the nature of the extension and unacceptable demands attached to the extension.

by Duty281 Thu 14 Mar 2019, 7:15 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Does the EC have powers to give Britain an extension - because if it has to be a unanimous decision by the EU members of state - it is not going to happen.

If the EC does have powers to grant Britain an extension (without going to the member states) will they then attach demands that British Parliament has already rejected (such as demanding a second referendum)?

It seems to me that a no deal Brexit is going to happen on 29th March by default through lack of agreement on the nature of the extension and unacceptable demands attached to the extension.

From the BBC: "First the request must be made," said a spokeswoman for the European Commission, "and then it is a decision of unanimity from all member states.
"There are a number of avenues for making decisions and it is not specified in Article 50 how the decision should be made."

I believe the decision will be made on either the 21st or 22nd March. It's bizarre leaving the extension request so late in the day because, as you say, a no-deal exit could happen by default if there is a difference of opinion on the terms of extension, or if there is just one member state that takes issue with extension.

by No name Bertie Thu 14 Mar 2019, 7:39 pm

French President Emmanuel Macron is already on record in saying that France will block any British extension request unless the request comes with a "clear objective" ... and who knows what the other 26 member states will say.

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