June tests. A review.

Morning all.
Post about your home nations June tests.
Who impressed you?
Who didn't.
What worked,
Your thoughts on where your going.

And as a bonus say one thing that impressed you about one of the other home nations.

Ps can we keep the handbags at home and not turn this in to a free for all. Thanks

carpet baboon wrote:Morning all.
Post about your home nations June tests.
Who impressed you?
Who didn't.
What worked,
Your thoughts on where your going.

And as a bonus say one thing that impressed you about one of the other home nations.

Ps can we keep the handbags at home and not turn this in to a free for all. Thanks

Impressed by:

Jonny May
Our ability to attack in high veld, hard ground conditions
Tom Curry's continued improvement


Less than impressed by:

Our defence in high veld conditions
Our pack


Other countries:

Wales increasing player depth in back row and backs
Ireland securing an impressive series win despite what at times seemed like a rather random selection policy by Schmidt.
Scotland's demolition of Argentina
Italy securing their first away win for a long time

Impressed by :
Both hookers played very well.
Ryan is colossal
Ability to change personnel and still win.

Not impressed
Inability to turn possession into lots of points.


Others
J May. Gone from fast headless chicken, to a very intelligent link man with great lines. ( Is it just me or does he pass weird?)
Wales are finding some serious depth with pace and skill.
Scotland USA blip aside there young lads look very very promising.
France looking like a team again. They need to play fofana every game he's one of the best when on form

carpet baboon wrote:Morning all.
Post about your home nations June tests.
Who impressed you?
Who didn't.
What worked,
Your thoughts on where your going.

And as a bonus say one thing that impressed you about one of the other home nations.

Ps can we keep the handbags at home and not turn this in to a free for all. Thanks

Elliott Dee, Ryan Elias, Adam Beard, Ellis Jenkins, James Davies, Tomos Williams, Josh Adams, Hallam Amos all impressed me. I hope they're given a fair crack of breaking into the Autumn and 6N match day squads. Spaces are opening up in the back-row and back 3.
Jonny May didn't impress me, massively overrated. I was also unimpressed by Aled Davies, too slow at passing, running and decision-making, and needs his pro contract ripped up immediately. Amazingly, he is en route to Ospreys to form the world's worst halfback pairing with their Sam Davies.
Defence and scrum worked well against a team considered to be very strong, but Arg were physically dominated by a team containing a lot of young and inexperienced players. That's where the game was won and I expect we'll be trying the same in the autumn although it will need to improve, SA and Aus are looking very strong up front.
I think we're growing as a squad and heading in the right direction. There were a few guys left out for rest and due to injury. AWJ, Warburton, Shingler and Navidi are the ones I feel can walk back in when they are available. Scotland are first up for us in the autumn and I believe it's a winnable game, which can set us up nicely for the rest of the season .

I'm probably a bit impressed by England winning their final game against SA after previously believing the false hope heaped upon them by fans. That took some doing. I think they'll get better and will be a title competitor in the 6N along with Wales and Ireland.

Didn't realise there was another jonny may. Who does he play for?

New Zealand still the kings.... and a half.  It's a miracle story really to be so so dominant in a sport for so so long.  I don't envy them, just gladly doff my hat in respect.

Ireland - a juggernaut of a different sort craftily coasting for now.  I've genuinely seen the players more shattered after a tough Pro14 game than they looked after that 3 test tour and final test.  Except Stander that is, who actually did look shattered from the effort.  And why wouldn't he with his man of the match role.  Someone had to do some work, I guess.

Wales - feeling good I'm sure but would need a tougher series to prove A-grade growth.  Confidence is a big coaching bonus when you coach Wales.  They buzz sharply when tails are up on belief.  So going the right way.... the basterdes

England - despite the blip win I'd say they remain where they were post 6N and have work to do to find the real killer selections and tactics again.  Sly though.  So even if they look undercooked, let nobody fall for it too much into next year.  It might all have been a big Jones plan all along to catch everyone with their pants down in WC year  If he's laughing to himself in private, I hope other sides (well only Ireland actually ) still always prepare to meet England in their pomp.... because sometime in the nearish future, some side will.

Australia - looked good but is it all smokescreens of effort and spurt with no real game management skills?  The game against New Zealand will tell more about their 'resurgence'.  They could be crucified on 'some' of the evidence of their gameplay against Ireland in the series.  Ireland didn't punish enough with their possession.  ABs will with theirs.

South Africa - despite the blip loss, I think they'll be happy that they look like they are going up more than going down.  Lack of concentration and killer punch instincts is probably what Erasmus knows he needs to work on now.  Just coz you win two games don't mean you can cruise a third.... unless you're Ireland - defending, defending, defending..

Scotland - emotional Townsend will have a sour taste about that tour.  I think a mental setback for him and maybe the first true sensation that this bloody International coaching stuff ain't as easy as it looked from the sidelines.  I think he has a mentality for hitting targets concerning performance levels and he expected his team to heavy hit their way through all obstacles this summer.

France - on the up I suppose but a LONG way to go to knock the top dog off its perch - as some side will have to try to do next year.

So what's that?
Teams that look to be on the up - Wales, South Africa, Australia, France.
Teams that are static - New Zealand, Ireland, England.
Teams that slipped up - Scotland, Argentina.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't realise there was another jonny may. Who does he play for?

Hes the only player who looked remotely dangerous for England - but that's only if it a direct foot race to the try line.

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't realise there was another jonny may. Who does he play for?

Hes the only player who looked remotely dangerous for England - but that's only if it a direct foot race to the try line.

To be fair that's what I believed he was only good at, but if you watch back the England games some of his lines he runs I to the attack off his wing were brilliant. And his timing of his passes were spot on. (Although his passing looks like he can't bend his arms at the elbow)

He looked good in a poor England team, will see how he does in the Autumn. He's still not a patch on other 6 Nations' wingers.

Tbf, wing is probably one of the hardest positions to look good in a poor team, so I think that speaks more favourably for him

carpet baboon wrote:Impressed by :
Both hookers played very well.
Ryan is colossal
Ability to change personnel and still win.

Not impressed
Inability to turn possession into lots of points.

Did we not use 3 hookers? I do think Herring really stood out especially in the 1st test, Scannell I think looked a little fearful at lineout time on Saturday but isn't far behind and Cronin still doesn't stand out as a starter for me

Some of the young players have work to do, Larmour and Stockdale both need to work on their defence and tackling though both have great physical strength

9 and 10 still needs work, Cooney got all of about 2mins on tour and Marmion and the 10s need game time to develop

Dont know if this thread is only for Europeans, but then again dont see any reason for not putting forward an Antipodean perspective.

France again turned up to play, (I think they are the last NH side to beat NZ in NZ), There was no complaining about the jetlag, about players playing in club finals, and more noticeably they did not complain about some of the most hard luck calls that the officials imposed against them.

Would love to see Basteraud and Fofana spend time on the field at the same time, could be another Nonu/Smith Midfield combination.

The ABs themselves in the second test put on one of their worst performances for years, but a bad game always means the desperate players lift themselves and play at a higher level, the performance in the last test was exactly that, with the team playing with balance, smart clinical processing of the game, attacking the defence first before going for the razzmatazz. scoring 7 tries to 2, and blooding four more new test players.

I by chance saw some of the Scotland Argentina test. maybe I dont watch Scotland enough to make informed comment, but if I was scottish I would think there was plenty there was alot to like in that performance. Its irrelevant as to  whether Argentina were rubbish.

Bottomline: Your only as good as your last game and the only game that matters is your next one.

May is probably the form winger at the monent. Granted when all on or Watson nowell and Daly will push him.

No 7&1/2 wrote:May is probably ourform winger at the monent. Granted when all on or Watson nowell and Daly will push him.

Fixed

Nope. He is our form winger. He is probably the form winger in the nh but Thomas of France is up there. And them 2 and ioane. Are out in front of the form table world wide.

I know he's only a rookie who makes some gaping errors of judgement sometimes... but is not Stockdale the 'form' winger of the NH these last few months? No?

Not from the aus series tbh. He looked to have a lot of potential but very raw.

Still... season is over in NH so let's balance the year out in total and the opponents - and despite the no scores in the final series against the Aussies, Stockdale was finding surge points that made the Aussie's nervous and adding plenty to the Irish breakdown efforts that had such an impact overall in the series. So he was still working despite the lack of tries.

On the tries front, by all means anyone can correct me if I've done my counting wrong but Stockdale has scored 10 International tries since last year's November Internationals.  May has scored I think 9?  Thomas 4?
Let's just say Stockdale certainly doesn't deserve to be not mentioned in the same breath as May and Thomas.

Sorry you're quite right if looking over that length. Was simply taking these summer tours. Not talking stockdale down. Think he's going to be a cracking player. He'll be better should schmidt on to loosen up a bit and let you player more freely. That said he suits your current tactics down to the ground anyway.

He's the player of England's Summer Tour but that tour but pretty much everyone else has been absolute bobbins.

It's an argument that doesn't affect his brilliant form at all.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's an argument that doesn't affect his brilliant form at all.

He looks good in a poor team, of course it does. Josh Adams and Stockdale are barely out of the u20s and they already have much more about them than 'dog chasing car'

Riiiiight. Seeing as wales can't even beat england I'd point that right back at ya.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Riiiiight. Seeing as wales can't even beat england I'd point that right back at ya.

Wow, you've got me there, what a fantastically valid point.

Ta.

munkian wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Riiiiight. Seeing as wales can't even beat england I'd point that right back at ya.

Wow, you've got me there, what a fantastically valid point.

Jeez is he really still going on about that? Someone hurry up and buy him the DVD ffs, then he can be reminded his team finished 5th .

For us, great that weve probably found a third world class lock in Barrett, that we can maintain standards without Read, Retallick and Coles, all of whom are back shortly.

Great to see the two Smiths remain at the top of their game, and that we have a queue lining up to replace Kaino, who wraps up his Blues career before holidaying in Toulon.

But most great to see we arent the finished article, that new players are starting to step up and share the hard stuff.

Hopefully good things ahead.

I'll just have to watch the matches we won then mikey.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'll just have to watch the matches we won then mikey.

2 from 5, and you all complained about your performance (as well as the ref) in both of those

Taylorman wrote:For us, great that weve probably found a third world class lock in Barrett, that we can maintain standards without Read, Retallick and Coles, all of whom are back shortly.

Great to see the two Smiths remain at the top of their game, and that we have a queue lining up to replace Kaino, who wraps up his Blues career before holidaying in Toulon.

But most great to see we arent the finished article, that new players are starting to step up and share the hard stuff.

Hopefully good things ahead.

I think we found that you can maintain standards without those guys in the autumn, but yeah I agree. All Black talent pool is still putting out world class players.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Taylorman wrote:For us, great that weve probably found a third world class lock in Barrett, that we can maintain standards without Read, Retallick and Coles, all of whom are back shortly.

Great to see the two Smiths remain at the top of their game, and that we have a queue lining up to replace Kaino, who wraps up his Blues career before holidaying in Toulon.

But most great to see we arent the finished article, that new players are starting to step up and share the hard stuff.

Hopefully good things ahead.

I think we found that you can maintain standards without those guys in the autumn, but yeah I agree. All Black talent pool is still putting out world class players.

Wasnt really looking that way during the AIs, they were a bit flat, but now some are stepping up and even surprising which is good. Looks like we’ll be at full availability for the RC so a bit of luck there as well.

Yup. All we can do is cling to beating wales.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup. All we can do is cling to beating wales.

Yeah that’s all you do, but most others have higher aspirations.

Yup. Now I know how wales feel.

carpet baboon wrote:

Ps can we keep the handbags at home and not turn this in to a free for all. Thanks

You tried.

Who impressed you?

O'Mahoney, Sexton, Furlong, Stander, Ringrose, Ryan all stood out as key players. Herring did well and showed he is capable at this level.  

Who didn't.

Henshaw and Murray looked off the pace after a long season. Kearney was a mixed bag at the back. Stockdale was exposed a bit defensively. Generally apart from Ringrose and Larmour our outside backs probably lacked cutting edge in attack.  

The front 3 struggled in the scrum after a very impressive 6N.

What worked,

Defense was excellent in second and third tests, after being exposed in the first test. Game management from the big players, particularly Sexton and O'Mahoney was very impressive. A number of younger and fringe players gained good experience and squad depth stood up well.

Some good attacking play to create chances but should have finished more off.

Your thoughts on where your going.

After such a long and successful season to win the series was a massive achievement and another big milestone en route to the RWC. So things are still on an upward trajectory.  

The inability to score tries with so much possession and territory is still a concern.

The back 3 and midfield maybe still lacking a bit of cutting edge, especially when Ringrose is out it became a bit predictable. The scrum creaked at times as well so still plenty to work on.

And as a bonus say one thing that impressed you about one of the other home nations.

France played some good rugby and were much better than the scorelines suggested.

Danny Cipriani and Jonny May looked impressive for England.

Ireland
Good - we won with a squad of players and not a 15.
No drop off in play regardless of who was playing
The back row considering no VDF and hardly any Leavy.
Bad - possession v scoring
Scrum

England - got the win to reset the mental stuff
Wales - starting to have a squad
Scotland - Finished on a high
France - they tried each game
Italy first away win in a while

Also can we now say Japan is ahead of the Samoa and Tonga and on par with Fiji and Argetina

For anyone who wants Georgia in for Italy in the 6nations. Georgia lost 28-0 to Japan while Italy won one lost one. They are improving but still behind Italy

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup. Now I know how wales feel.

Another stupid comment. You have no idea how Wales feel.

rodders wrote:Who impressed you?

O'Mahoney, Sexton, Furlong, Stander, Ringrose, Ryan all stood out as key players. Herring did well and showed he is capable at this level.  

Who didn't.

Henshaw and Murray looked off the pace after a long season. Kearney was a mixed bag at the back. Stockdale was exposed a bit defensively. Generally apart from Ringrose and Larmour our outside backs probably lacked cutting edge in attack.  

The front 3 struggled in the scrum after a very impressive 6N.

What worked,

Defense was excellent in second and third tests, after being exposed in the first test. Game management from the big players, particularly Sexton and O'Mahoney was very impressive. A number of younger and fringe players gained good experience and squad depth stood up well.

Some good attacking play to create chances but should have finished more off.

Your thoughts on where your going.

After such a long and successful season to win the series was a massive achievement and another big milestone en route to the RWC. So things are still on an upward trajectory.  

The inability to score tries with so much possession and territory is still a concern.

The back 3 and midfield maybe still lacking a bit of cutting edge, especially when Ringrose is out it became a bit predictable. The scrum creaked at times as well so still plenty to work on.

And as a bonus say one thing that impressed you about one of the other home nations.

France played some good rugby and were much better than the scorelines suggested.

Danny Cipriani and Jonny May looked impressive for England.

I'll pass that detailed commentary on Scotland back to Townsend, Rodders. 

You're right mikey. Much better to be am england fan. Thanks for the perspective.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're right mikey. Much better to be am england fan. Thanks for the perspective.

Yeah mind, you finished 5th in the 6N.

If your pathetic and child-like attempts to keep getting the last word in on every single thread aren’t embarrassing for you then there’s no hope.

You're right. At least we beat wales.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're right. At least we beat wales.

Zzzzzzzzz too many English children ruining this forum

I`ve been offline or unable to log on until recently so watched a lot of rugby over the period.
The June tests were the most extensive recently because for many it was a case of RWC2019
qualification.Most of the usual teams qualified but Romania was disqualified and Canada have
yet to do so.
The IRB ratings end july have NH sides at2,3,4,Ireland are being touted as both 6Ns and
possibly RWC2019 winners.As to the first it`s a possibility,the second if the reach the
semis they will the first team to achieve it.

Club form means nothing in the test arena,with the current card situation in a knock out
comp you`re only as good as your last game.
This year it is about trying out new players to fit into the teams for next,no side is a certainy
but the usual suspects plus Japan will be there or there abouts.

Scotland.
For me the key thing was discovering depth. Its been a theme over the last year but we are almost in the position of having choice in every position. Back row balance remains and issue as does having all our centres fit and in form at the same time

Youngsters coming thru. George Horne, Hastings, Fagerson the younger, Bradbury to name a few.

This scotland squad will be together for a while yet. so many young players that the core of the team should be there for the WC after this one.

As an anglo-scot the most pleasing thing was Scotland are scoring tries,as the Crusaders proved
IF,The othersides set piece isn`t functioning the best backs in the world become anonymous.