Italy and the 6ns?

oops

majesticimperialman wrote:For as long as i can remeberpeople/Fansd

Wow. In your defence Madge, you possibly made more sense than ever.

I must stop trying to make a point when i have had a drink.

What i meant to post was ,that people have been saying for ages that Italy should not be in the 6ns. After to days/ yesterday's game against Scotland, do fans, pundits, still think that?

Or have they finaly proved that they deserve to be in the 6ns?

They proved it ages ago. They deserved to win yesterday.

Italy proved yesterday that they are improving and are getting there. They have some good young players coming through and decent coaching. It is not all bad for them but as with Scotland, who have been considered promising for a while, success at this level does take time. If you were to drop Georgia into their place, they would lose every game as well and look out of place to, especially in the begining.

Italy look like they are starting to get to grips with professional rugby, just give them more time.

More than the game though, Italy and Rseome in particular is now well established in the seasons calendar. I would estimate around 10,000 Scottish fans were in Rome yesterday and it has the capacity to absorb them effortlessly as well as embrace their diversity. The sight of the Jedforest Pipe band marching and playing around the Piazza Navonna was awe inspiring.

There is z lot more to 6N weekends than just the game and on that score Italy have an awful lot to offer. 67,000 were in the Olympic Stadium on saturday.

I don't imagine many of them think that Italy should not be a part of it!

Italy proved before yesterday that they are improving and getting there.

But as some English pundit said - was it Wilkinson? - when they get better, the other have gotten better too.

So that's the first part. This Italian side this year would kill off an Italian side of two or three years ago.

But the improvement always happens in the club game first. And that's where Italian rugby seems to be rising from the floor first. Then on to International.

Plus - that U20 side caught everyone on the hop!

majesticimperialman wrote:I must stop trying to make a point when i have had a drink.

What i meant to post was ,that people have been saying for ages that Italy should not be in the 6ns. After to days/ yesterday's game against Scotland, do fans, pundits, still think that?

Or have they finaly proved that they deserve to be in the 6ns?

I certainly have not said this but I am in the group that feel there should be a play off in the AI window between the 6th place in the 6N and the top of the tier 2 teams for the 6th spot in the 6N.

I have come round to that point of view eirebilly. Needs a good parachute payment if anyone drops down and I very much doubt that Georgia would beat Italy ( or scotland of a few years ago) but I think there should be some chance of progression for teams like Georgia. first step tho is they should get AIs against all the 6N teams. Each team every second year

TJ wrote:I have come round to that point of view eirebilly.  Needs a good parachute payment if anyone drops down and I very much doubt that Georgia would beat Italy ( or scotland of a few years ago) but I think there should be some chance of progression for teams like Georgia.  first step tho is they should get AIs against all the 6N teams.  Each team every second year

I would certainly be for this approach, let them play the 6N teams to gain more experience prior to having a play off. Very good approach

Its what happened with Italy - they played 5N teams in the AIs for about a decade and after a few wins proved themselves worthy of inclusion

I dont think the game yesterday really proved a great deal for Italy. 1 competitve performance from 5 games isnt good enough. The table and their record in the 6 Nations is pretty poor reading for them. They are lame ducks.

Their signs domestically that improvement is happening. Their pro 14 teams have been noticebaly better this year and are no longer soft touches to play at home. O Shea is a good development couch although you wonder how long he can go not winning games with Italy even if there is good underlying development work going on.

They have had 18 years in the championship now though which is a considerable length of time. I dont think their inclusion has panned out as hoped. Still taking about development, grass roots etc. This should have been done over a decade ago with Italy reaping the rewards now rather than still taking about getting it right. I actually think their current team and crop of players is weaker than Italy teams of the past. O Shea strikes me as the right guy to have to reform from bottom to top so hopeully they stick with him. But as mentioned, how long can they go on not winning games without O Shea coming under real pressure? Hard to see them winning a 6 Nations game next year either to be honest.