Ulster Rugby 2017-18

by Kingshu Wed 14 Feb 2018, 4:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

I was thinkung similar McCloskey for me has been better than Arnold and Farrell and just isnt being picked. Hopefully a resurgent Ulster will make it all better

by marty2086 Mon 19 Feb 2018, 1:22 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:We should see if we can get a double discount if we sign cipriani and hask from Wasps

Cipriani is a diva and not worth the hassle, Haskells staying in England to fight for a place in the RWC squad

Weir is being replaced at Edinburgh by an IQ player so might have been a good idea to sign him, Bristol have signed two IQ players in Muldowney and Heenan, pretty sure Macken at Wasps is out of contract at the end of the season. So there are IQ players out there it just seems we aren't signing them

Muldowney ceased to be IQ when he moved to Grenoble, and Heenan will also lose his residency qualification when he moves to Bristol. Ulster are crying out for players like Heenan, and being a reformed wild boy he might have been what Ulster needed off the pitch as well! Can't blame Heenan wanting to go where he'll get a bit more appreciation from Lam.

That's not how residency works Aukster, once you qualify you are qualified until you get capped by someone else

by The Great Aukster Mon 19 Feb 2018, 1:49 pm

marty2086 wrote:

That's not how residency works Aukster, once you qualify you are qualified until you get capped by someone else

Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected - I thought that a player had to be a current resident, and as soon as they moved they began their next qualification period.

So if a player was born to Welsh parentage in Wales, lived in Ireland up to age 5 and then moved to England for the next 20 years, if uncapped by Wales he would still qualify for Ireland on residency?

by marty2086 Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:06 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

That's not how residency works Aukster, once you qualify you are qualified until you get capped by someone else

Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected - I thought that a player had to be a current resident, and as soon as they moved they began their next qualification period.

So if a player was born to Welsh parentage in Wales, lived in Ireland up to age 5 and then moved to England for the next 20 years, if uncapped by Wales he would still qualify for Ireland on residency?

Exactly and Muldowney wasn't a residency qualifier he has an Irish father, think he also qualified for Scotland through his mother and England through birth

by marty2086 Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:07 pm

Cooney is the Ireland squad, probably be third choice but means he is away from Ulster most of the week so that means he'll probably get a few hours training with Nelson which will be really helpful for preparing to play the champions

by Redman Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:19 pm

If Stewart and Curtis play together in the U20s then would be better off just putting them in there. At least there's some sense of continuity rather than throw Nelson into the mix.

by **rodders** Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:35 pm

I have to say there I was very impressed with Jordi Murphy's form against Scarlets.

If he maintains that quality then he could be a great player for us.

Even more impressive was Beirne. Holy smokes that guy is incredible. I can't help feel he's gone to the wrong province and he'd have got considerable game time for us in the second row and also back row, where he looks even better.

He's have been perfect for us, but maybe we can convince Stander to come North now...

Bad luck for McPhillips he was one of our better players against Edinburgh.

Well deserved for Cooney to get the Ireland call up.

by Kingshu Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:58 pm

On the residency if you leave you lose it unless capped, and can only have a certain amount of time away. In you example the Welsh guy would have lost it after being away 3 months (maybe 6) and have to start it again. Certainly under the 3 year rule it was like that

by marty2086 Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:30 pm

Apologies Aukster, you and Kingshu were right Doh

The rule says

has completed thirty six consecutive months of Residence
immediately preceding the time of playing.

by Pete330v2 Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:20 pm

Cooney deserves an Ireland call up but the timing couldn't be worse for Ulster right when we need him.

by Pete330v2 Tue 20 Feb 2018, 4:23 pm

I know nobody wants to discuss the ongoing trial but if you'd like a little info you could do worse than follow Frank Greaney on twitter. Blow by blow, minute by minute account of exactly what's being said.

by toml Tue 20 Feb 2018, 5:38 pm

I don't even really want to know the summaries. Its for the judge and jury to know all that.

by Redman Tue 20 Feb 2018, 10:05 pm

While I've been interested in it's effects, I have no particular interest in the trial itself.

I've come to the conclusion that neither are going to play for Ulster again. That's where my interest ends.

by Pete330v2 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 9:18 am

Sod that, I will always give into the human trait that is being nosey as hell.

by marty2086 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:29 am

Stockdale has signed a new contract to 2020

by marty2086 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:52 am

Don't know if anyone else saw this but why are a professional organisation searching for volunteers to work for free to help with S&C?

The Ulster Rugby athletic performance department is offering two exciting volunteer opportunities in the roles of Strength & Conditioning Coach and Sports Scientist.

Each of these short-term volunteering opportunities contribute directly to the physical development of rugby players in Ulster, whilst gaining valuable practical experience in an elite sport environment.

In return, it will give you the chance to increase your skills and knowledge, potentially leading to enhanced career opportunities.

Volunteer Strength & Conditioning Coach

This role will support the Strength & Conditioning team in delivering a range of programmes to the Senior and Academy squads.

Volunteer Sports Scientist

The role will support the performance pathway of the athletic performance department in delivering sports science support to the Senior and Academy squads.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Feb 2018, 11:04 am

There is too much of this creeping in to society from all angles. Work for nothing and go places! Slavery is making a return, dressed up in new 'work experience' language for the new age.

I have nothing against people willingly volunteering for anything in life - but to be pressured into it to get your needed 'experience' is just exploitation.

by Kingshu Wed 21 Feb 2018, 11:44 am

SecretFly wrote:There is too much of this creeping in to society from all angles. Work for nothing and go places! Slavery is making a return, dressed up in new 'work experience' language for the new age.

I have nothing against people willingly volunteering for anything in life - but to be pressured into it to get your needed 'experience' is just exploitation.

I tend to agree apprenticeships are another cheap labour source, min wage £7.05 is but for an apprentice its £3.50, who could live off £3.50 an hour, your better off on the dole.

Anyway for Ulster rugby, this is bad, it doesn't sound like a work placement opportunity it sounds like the job proper.
While Munster are trying to get an All Ireland winning strength and conditioning coach who is very highly rated,
http://www.the42.ie/lukasz-kirszenstein-3857540-Feb2018/

Ulster put an add in the paper asking for a volunteer? Headscratch

And they are the ones that are meant to be in debt and we are going ok finically? chin

by Pete330v2 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 12:06 pm

That's amateur hour as usual from Ulster Rugby. What the hell do they hope to achieve? They may as well add out-half, defence coach, skills coach and a couple of backrow options to the list for volunteers.

by rapidsnowman Wed 21 Feb 2018, 12:35 pm

Unless...

They already know who they want to do it (for whatever reasons - perhaps they need experience for some other position elsewhere and need this on their CV) and Ulster rugby are obliged to advertise it.
Although I wouldn't have thought so as it is voluntary.

Who knows?

It does add to the general "If you didn't laugh, you would cry" feeling around recent administrative developments.

by The Great Aukster Wed 21 Feb 2018, 12:59 pm

Allegedly the IRFU have significantly cut Ulster funding until the 'Branch' adopt the conditions attached with it. Expect more measures like this to address the shortfall.

by marty2086 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 1:19 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Allegedly the IRFU have significantly cut Ulster funding until the 'Branch' adopt the conditions attached with it. Expect more measures like this to address the shortfall.

From what I remember, the amount Ulster received from the IRFU in the 2016/17 accounts wasn't a huge amount in terms of overall income. Strangely the accounts section of the annual report is no longer showing

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 1:32 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Sod that, I will always give into the human trait that is being nosey as hell.

I can't help but be intrigued. And not really to do with being an Ulster supporter.
Find it interesting that despite the big flower campaign, we have now had a few female witnesses kinda helping the guys case. I'm glad to see female witnesses being truthful. Some of the feminist posse out they are so militant almost they would make you doubt their honourability if they were put on a stand in some cases.

It's very easy to say things bluntly when you only hear a few details. But for me personally, hearing the details is having an affect. I was pretty disgusted by the lads even being in the situation, and now I'd be a bit more sympathetic to that if they were to be found guilty.

I guess what I'm saying is - a lack of evidence leading to an innocent verdict would be very different to an innocent verdict stemming from a malicious untrue allegation.
I'm not saying i believe any of that is true or likely. But it did occur to me that the latter, if it were obvious would probably see a significant amount of sympathy for the boys.

I don't want to create a new thread for this, as then all other fans will just get stuck in. But if anyone really wants this post removed, I'll do so.
It seems we have all written them off as Ulster players, but in the event (however unlikely) that this is malicious and untrue for whatever motivation, is there really no way back to UR for them?

by geoff999rugby Wed 21 Feb 2018, 1:46 pm

Clive that really isn't helpful and implying women can be less truthful than men in the witness block is out of order.
You are only hearing snippets, like the rest of us, and are not getting a complete picture to be in a position to comment

I suggest you delete the message

PS There is no way back

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:05 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Clive that really isn't helpful and implying women can be less truthful than men in the witness block is out of order.
You are only hearing snippets, like the rest of us, and are not getting a complete picture to be in a position to comment

I suggest you delete the message

PS There is no way back

Well I can't delete my comment while yours survives as it appears rather condemning of me and others would have no context...

I implied nothing about any of the women involved at this trial, I was talking about feminist voices I hear in the media which seem biased and militant.

I haven't presumed ANYTHING. I'm just talking about potential outcomes and I'm curious what the mindset of supporters would be in those specific hypothetical outcomes.

P.S. I'm still happy to delete if it's unwanted, but I will have to ask you to delete yours thereafter. I don't want this becoming a place where people don't want to come anymore. So if it's not wanted, I'll delete.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:10 pm

Don't delete anything. It is a comment piece that doesn't declare a belief in anything but an acknowledgement that clive has heard enough to still have an open mind.

Men and Women can lie in court. They both can. The potential is there.

This imposed censorship of 'disapproved' opinion has to be clamped down on. Nobody should be asking anyone to delete a post simply because it implies doubt or caution about the prosecution case.

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:13 pm

I wouldn't be feeling cencored if I deleted to be fair. I just don't want people to be turned off 606v2 because it's not the content they want to read.
I personally don't mind discussing it, and I'm wise enough not to say anything dumb.

by geoff999rugby Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:15 pm

Clive offered to delete - hence my post.

Regardless I consider it inaccurate, incomplete and unfair to a section of the community and
as such totally inappropriate

by geoff999rugby Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:It is a comment piece that doesn't declare a belief in anything but an acknowledgement that clive has heard enough to still have an open mind.

.

t doesn't imply an open mind at all - it implies Clive has decided they are not guilty

That is inspite of only hearing snippets of information about a yet to be completed case.
That is not an open mind in my book

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:19 pm

Are you accepting my offer or not Geoff?

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:20 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It is a comment piece that doesn't declare a belief in anything but an acknowledgement that clive has heard enough to still have an open mind.

.

t doesn't imply an open mind at all - it implies Clive has decided they are not guilty

That is inspite of only hearing snippets of information about a yet to be completed case.
That is not an open mind in my book

Geoff, I think you need to re-read my post.
You are the one making dodgy claims now.

by marty2086 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:21 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It is a comment piece that doesn't declare a belief in anything but an acknowledgement that clive has heard enough to still have an open mind.

.

t doesn't imply an open mind at all - it implies Clive has decided they are not guilty

That is inspite of only hearing snippets of information about a yet to be completed case.
That is not an open mind in my book

Sorry geoff but I don't see that at all, where does it imply that since he references a number of scenarios?

by SecretFly Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:21 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Clive offered to delete - hence my post.

Regardless I consider it inaccurate, incomplete and unfair to a section of the community and
as such totally inappropriate

Tons of stuff is inaccurate, incomplete and unfair in the media coverage so far. We have one female journalist down here who constantly writes about the case with a heavy bias directed in favour of the accuser. She goes out of her way to highlight the moments when the 'woman against the machine' aspects of the case are risen by either the witnesses or the lawyers. I read it and I see no balance but a court case used for sexual-political dogma.
I wonder can I ask the publication to delete her articles from here on in?

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:25 pm

Sh1t! I just found a dumb typo in my original comment.
I can't edit it or my integrity would be questioned.
I will post my correction and hope for the best from your judgement.

clivemcl wrote: I was pretty disgusted by the lads even being in the situation, and now I'd be a bit more sympathetic to that if they were to be found guilty.

Should have read...

I was pretty disgusted by the lads even being in the situation, and now I'd be a bit more sympathetic to that if they were to be found innocent.

I know thats a pretty big typo, but it is what it is. I'm not going to 'cover my tracks' as I've already got Geoff calling me out.

Again, I'm happy to delete as long as any following remarks about my post are deleted too.

by geoff999rugby Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:28 pm

Cant agree with posts above the last two

There is a clear implied comments about the lack of truthfulness by a section of people - specifically women.
There is a clear implication that the incomplete evidence heard has chance Clives mind to one of sympathy to the accused.

He, or any us, has heard the complete picture and to draw conclusions in those circumstances is inappropriate.
To imply that certain women have different standards of truthfulness is also not helpful, or accurate

As to Flys last post it was Clive who offered to delete not me and previous we seemed to have an understanding not to discuss proceedings.
If you guys want to talk trials then I suggest taking it elsewhere and leave this thread to rugby

by SecretFly Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:29 pm

I think everyone would understand the typo clive.

Don't delete. You said nothing wrong. Deleting suggests that you have.

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:30 pm

I now wish to delete it Geoff, as it's clearly hostile. But since you have made accusations, I will not delete mine unless follow up posts are deleted.
Third time of asking.

by SecretFly Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:34 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Cant agree with posts above the last two

There is a clear implied comments about the lack of truthfulness by a section of people - specifically women.

You're right in saying that we all kinda agreed - without a formal agreement - not to talk about the trial. But it gets out now and again...; again, not a reason to delete the stuff that gets out. I think we're all being careful about using general terms.

Now as far as I'm concerned, Clive alluded to a certain kind of politically active woman and he questions their attention to truth at all times when considering they have a political agenda. So that's a reasonable caution about a specific grouping that is political in nature.

We all suspect politicians all the time of being economical with the truth when it might suit them. Nobody gets criticised for questioning their integrity. It's considered the nature of the beast that a politician that needs votes to be a politician might be inclined to say he believes something when he doesn't just to get himself or herself re-elected.

There is a political movement siding with one side in this court case. Acknowledging the fact doesn't assert guilt or innocence.

by clivemcl Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:42 pm

by marty2086 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 2:50 pm

I agree with Fly on this, if you follow any local publications on Facebook there is one idiot who under any article on the trial posts a picture of the IRFU logo saying 'I believe her'.

I challenged one person on Twitter after Bests appearance at the court about why he was there telling them it might not be the best idea to jump to conclusions, I got attacked by a number of different people with one telling me I was defending r@pists.

There are others who in an attempt to discredit anyone saying innocent until proven guilty or she could be lying, listed the number of guilty verdicts in the UK for the crime prove that men lie too because only men can be guilty of it apparently.

The fact is there are three or four people who will only truly know what happened that night and all four could have different interpretations and could all be telling the truth based on how they see it as having went down.

The rest of us will end up interpreting what we see or hear and all of us will probably be wrong anyway

by **rodders** Wed 21 Feb 2018, 3:46 pm

marty2086 wrote:Don't know if anyone else saw this but why are a professional organisation searching for volunteers to work for free to help with S&C?

Flip me Stockdale must be on some salary!

No seriously that is a joke, I thought it was April first when I read it.

by neilthom7 Wed 21 Feb 2018, 4:20 pm

rodders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Don't know if anyone else saw this but why are a professional organisation searching for volunteers to work for free to help with S&C?

Flip me Stockdale must be on some salary!

No seriously that is a joke, I thought it was April first when I read it.

Sadly though it is not April 1st and this is kind of a great sum up of Ulster's complete joke of a club structure

by marty2086 Thu 22 Feb 2018, 4:35 pm

BRIAN McLaughlin believes Ulster Rugby must work harder at grassroots level to harness homegrown talent in order to produce a successful professional team in the years to come.

The province’s former head coach points to constraints on teachers in the school system and the impact that a successful Northern Ireland football team has had on rugby participation, as factors that may hinder the development of young rugby players.

The former RBAI Head of PE is certainly well qualified to give his views on the way forward, with his vast experience of coaching rugby at underage and senior level.

He joined Ulster in 2009, having been skills coach to the Ireland senior side under Eddie O’Sullivan between 2005 and 2008. McLaughlin also coached the Ireland U21s, Ulster U20s and has been successful at schools level, taking teams to nine Schools’ Cup finals, winning five of them.

After being deemed surplus to requirements in 2014, when he led Ulster to a European Cup final, he worked in the Ulster Academy and now runs a successful rugby consultancy business.

“Football has continued to grow in strength as a result of the success of Northern Ireland football team. This could prove to have a negative affect on participation levels in rugby,” said McLaughlin.

“Boys are able to access many opportunities to attend soccer academies and a lot of grammar school pupils, who might traditionally have played rugby, are now choosing to play soccer.

“Schools with a very strong rugby ethos are still okay but in the smaller schools it’s very difficult. Schools don’t have the resources to put the same energy into extra curricular rugby as they have done in the past.

“Ulster relies heavily on its club coaches and school teachers to develop and nurture rugby players.

“Teachers and coaches at this level do a fantastic job but further investment at the grassroots is essential.

“It is a concern that we may not be able to produce our own talent. Summer camps are all very well and have a role to play in widening participation.

“But I think we need a greater and more intensive Ulster Rugby presence in schools and clubs across the province. We need to give young players at minis, U12s, 13s and 14s the tools they need to grow into quality rugby players.”

“Efforts must go into getting as many young people as possible involved in rugby, the more people you have playing

“The more contact Ulster coaches and development officers have with them, the greater the likelihood that you’re going to find the next Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Stephen Ferris or Iain Henderson.

“None of them went to the ‘big’ rugby schools. At the minute I don’t think that’s happening. It may be a resource issue for Ulster Rugby but it should be a strategic priority.”

Much has been made of the conveyor belt that is the Leinster Academy but McLaughlin points out that the schools there do not have the same constraints as those in Ulster.

“There is no comparison – our schools are more or less all government funded. In Leinster, there are a lot of private schools and the vast majority have their own directors of rugby. That may partly explain why Leinster are so strong at the minute,” he added.

“They were at their peak when they played us in Heineken Cup final. We were very much, in my opinion, a developing side. That Leinster era was coming to an end but they rebuilt very quickly. I think that is testimony to the infrastructure they have in place for youth rugby.”

McLaughlin also believes Ulster Rugby could learn from other sports as far as the development of elite players is concerned.

“I have a daughter involved in the Ulster Hockey Talent Development Programme. There has been a pathway for her since primary school,” he explained.

“A large number of young people are involved and are retained in the programme for a number of years to ensure their skills and knowledge of the sport continue to develop as they grow and mature.

“Holiday camps and weekend training sessions occur on a frequent basis right across the province. This is nurturing a wide and firm foundation for the development of the hockey players of the future.

“A similar approach to the development of young rugby players, with an emphasis on skills acquisition would be beneficial. This would help greatly when the young players enter the current structure at the ages of 15/16.”

McLaughlin also insists Ulster must not allow talented players to slip through the net as has occasionally occurred in the past.

“Not only do we have to carefully seek out the top players of the future but we also need to make sure we keep them and not let them go like we have on occasions.” he stressed.

“For example, Ulster let Chris Farrell and Tommy Seymour, both of whom were educated here and played for Ulster, go and they have both gone on to play international rugby.”

by Pete330v2 Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:05 pm

Ulster squad for the Scarlets match:

(15-9): L Ludik; A Trimble, L Marshall, S McCloskey, T Bowe; J McPhillips, J Cooney;
(1-8): A Warwick, J Andrew, W Herbst, A O'Connor (Captain), K Treadwell, M Rea, N Timoney, J Deysel;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, R Ah You, M Dalton, C Henry, P Marshall, P Nelson, D Cave.

Bowe and Trimble!!!!!!!
How long's it been since those two started on the wings?

by SecretFly Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:11 pm

Whatever about Trimble, I have to say it is a little sad to see Tommy Bowe go through the motions now until retirement. It seems his heart and body have already retired but because of these things called contracts, he has a few months left.
I'm not saying he's not trying or giving less of himself consciously - I'm simply saying that every part of him now knows that he's retiring - all his muscles, all his nerve endings, all the synapses in his brain - they all know he's going.

So................ probably four tries from him and Joe dragging him immediately back into the International set up for the final two 6N games!

by marty2086 Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:13 pm

SecretFly wrote:
So................ probably four tries tonight from him and Joe dragging him immediately back into the International set up for the final two 6N games!

Im hoping he'll save those tries for the game tomorrow Whistle

by SecretFly Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:13 pm

Damn it! Changed it too late! Wink

by marty2086 Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:19 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Ulster squad for the Scarlets match:

(15-9): L Ludik; A Trimble, L Marshall, S McCloskey, T Bowe; J McPhillips, J Cooney;
(1-8): A Warwick, J Andrew, W Herbst, A O'Connor (Captain), K Treadwell, M Rea, N Timoney, J Deysel;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, R Ah You, M Dalton, C Henry, P Marshall, P Nelson, D Cave.

Bowe and Trimble!!!!!!!
How long's it been since those two started on the wings?

Given the youth in Scarlets team two aging wingers on the verge of retirement could be a problem. It's good to see McPhillips is back but with Scarlets backrow I see us struggling

by marty2086 Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:26 pm

Scarlets Team

Ulster Rugby 2017-18 - Page 2 Dwuasm10

by clivemcl Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:33 pm

I wasn't aware the McPhillips injury was no big deal. That's good to see!

by **rodders** Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:37 pm

SecretFly wrote:Whatever about Trimble, I have to say it is a little sad to see Tommy Bowe go through the motions now until retirement. It seems his heart and body have already retired but because of these things called contracts, he has a few months left.

I think it is sad to see the rapid decline in both players, Bowe physically looks gone but actually Trimble seems to be the one going through the motions this season.

It would be great to see both role back the years again here.

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