The Ashes: 1st Test, Brisbane

First topic message reminder :

1st Test Brisbane, November 23-27, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, Handscomb, S Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Ali, Bairstow †, Woakes, Ball, Broad, Anderson

Aggers says it's not true

Off to New Zealand, apparently, to practice and spend time with his family.

Mail reporting he’s off to NZ...getting ready for the 3rd test away from the limelight but in the right time zone me thinks...

Well we did look a Test quality batsmen and bowler light in that first match, which I suppose is going to happen when your best player is an all rounder that isn't playing

Saying that, I am not expecting too much from Stokes if he does appear in these circumstances, he can't have played a game for a few months now

Yeah, I don't suspect he'd be off to NZ with all his cricket gear if charges were about to be pressed to be honest. I think we'll see him in Perth.

Huge game in Adelaide now. If we lose this one, things could unravel very quickly as you would think this is our best chance and being 2-0 down going into Perth would not be a good place to be!

I suspect it will be the same team - injuries permitting. Mooen should be okay as the fifth bowler in a Day/Night game with his injury, as the four seamers should dominate the overs hopefully. And even if Anderson is only 70% I see no way he doesn't play. Ball to get one more game too, with Overton and his steeper bounce coming into the equation come Perth.

Surely Anderson is fine else why would he have bowled at all after it became obvious the game was lost ?
Reckon Overton must play. Ball has some pace ; but his bouncers just aren't well enough directed : it isn't much use whistling it through at speed high or wide of the batsman ...needs to be at the chest . Or throat , if you like I honestly think this should be a learning tour for him ...unfortunately one might probably say the same of Overton. Or Curran. But I think Overton deserves the chance to show what he can do ; and Adelaide might suit.
Stokes ? Gawd knows...the wheels of British Justice grind exceedingly slow , methinks... I have no idea how long it generally takes common assault charges to come to court in England these days ; but I would have thought they'd have come to a decision as to whether and with what to prosecute by now ?
(A few years ago , here in Melbourne , I was the victim of a stray punch thrown by an angry drunk - no injury , but the wretch broke my spectacles : the case was up to a magistrate within a matter of weeks - fine , apology , all done) : I do hope that the delay in this case doesn't indicate that they are considering the upper end of serious assault charges . But if they were I'd wonder why they are apparently fine with him leaving the country now...what the ECB is planning I can't guess.
In any case he's out of match practice...even Perth might be a stretch , if cleared to play. Better not to think about him : although it really galls me that a (very exciting) potentially key performer has been ruled out of an interesting series due to things which have nothing to do with cricket. The spectators are the losers , apart from his teammates.

This Adelaide Test should be seen as an opportunity for England. The pink ball does make it a bit of a raffle , perhaps : but it should suit the England bowlers ; and even if it will also see Starc in particular also dangerous , it just might give the tourists a chance to get back in the series. If they can win , anything is possible with three to play. Obviously a loss will put them on the brink : but they have to put that fear out of their minds and focus on doing what they usually do : bouncing back from a loss. It isn't impossible.

Canterbury confirming they are in initial discussions with Ben Stokes.

Duty281 wrote:Canterbury confirming they are in initial discussions with Ben Stokes.

I assume this must all be ok with the ECB. Just thinking about him being centrally contracted, them being none too chuffed about Bristol, etc, etc.

Lehamnas been talking up the pace of Adelaide. There may be an element of phsycology there of course, trying to build the pressure on England over their continued (and unsuprising) inability to cope with anything vaguely well directed and short. His interview reiterates the intent to bounce England out. 
There is talk that they may rotate one of the seamers, its likely they will all need a rest during the series unless Aus suddenly find their own Stokes to lighten the load ( or if England keep getting all out for under 200) .
Chadd Sayers is thought to be next in on his home ground if there is a change.


This looks like it will be a low scoring game, Englands hopes of decent really seem to rest on an Aussie paceman breaking down in the first innings. I just dont see them suddenly devleoping the ability to play hostile pace, and they probably ownt get the chance to tire the Aus bowlers on a helpful pitch. They may have more joy themselves with ball in this than the previous test, but I still fancy Aus as much better placed to cut through England.

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Canterbury confirming they are in initial discussions with Ben Stokes.

I assume this must all be ok with the ECB. Just thinking about him being centrally contracted, them being none too chuffed about Bristol, etc, etc.

In this case I think theyd be happier with him playing and getting prepped for test action without breaking his unofficial suspension by putting him in the lions.

Gooseberry wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Canterbury confirming they are in initial discussions with Ben Stokes.

I assume this must all be ok with the ECB. Just thinking about him being centrally contracted, them being none too chuffed about Bristol, etc, etc.

In this case I think theyd be happier with him playing and getting prepped for test action without breaking his unofficial suspension by putting him in the lions.

Given the ECB don't appear to be objecting to Stokes playing in New Zealand, my question then becomes - are the ECB tolerating this development or are they encouraging / arranging it? If the latter, it probably helps our Ashes' chances but leaves the ECB open to criticism about the credibility of their own investigation given they have maintained it would only commence following the police decision.

What I'm particularly unsure about is if the Bristol incident had happened early in our summer, would Stokes have been allowed by the ECB to play for Durham whilst not being picked by England? I don't know the answer to that (perhaps no one does) but my guess is that he wouldn't have been allowed.

It's wrong to take a player out of the game indefinitely because Plod can't make a decision but, not for the first time, the ECB don't look as if they are going to win any awards for openness and transparency.

Gooseberry wrote:Lehamnas been talking up the pace of Adelaide. There may be an element of phsycology there of course, trying to build the pressure on England over their continued (and unsuprising) inability to cope with anything vaguely well directed and short. His interview reiterates the intent to bounce England out. 
There is talk that they may rotate one of the seamers, its likely they will all need a rest during the series unless Aus suddenly find their own Stokes to lighten the load ( or if England keep getting all out for under 200) .
Chadd Sayers is thought to be next in on his home ground if there is a change.


This looks like it will be a low scoring game, Englands hopes of decent really seem to rest on an Aussie paceman breaking down in the first innings. I just dont see them suddenly devleoping the ability to play hostile pace, and they probably ownt get the chance to tire the Aus bowlers on a helpful pitch. They may have more joy themselves with ball in this than the previous test, but I still fancy Aus as much better placed to cut through England.

More than an element of psychology , I think...

To be honest I think the short ball menace thing has been somewhat exaggerated : several batsmen got out to short deliveries , true ; but most of those dismissals appeared due to careless (and unnecessary !) hooks rather than being terrorized. The only really fierce bouncer attack was to Root and Stoneman on the Saturday evening ; and they came through it pretty well , despite having to battle. Even the collapsing tail was more down to the failure of Bairstow as the remaining batsman to make any real attempt to nurse his partners through : he played loose shots in both innings to leave the last three to their own devices...and even then the last two wickets added thirty odd in the first innings.
Truth is the main reason England failed to score heavily enough was not the pace attack but the consistent and probing bowling of spinner Nathan Lyon. Apart from running out Vince he removed Moeen at crucial times in both innings , and both Stoneman and Malan in the second . In fact his pace partners probably got a few of their own wickets due to the desire of batsmen to go after them instead of trying to take the spinner on...

Adelaide will probably be a little quicker than Brisbane , but that will benefit the pace bowlers on both sides . And I doubt it will be any bouncier.

The problems are still there (inexperienced players , big hole where Stokes fits , neither Cook nor Root quite in the groove yet) but if they can pretty much equal the Australian score in Brisbane despite Smith playing a quite wonderful epic of concentration I see no reason why they can't do so again. Won't be easy ; but tours of Australia aren't meant to be ...

What they need to do this time is seize the vital moments - something they blatantly failed to do at the Gabba. (The hour up to lunch on Friday was the one which ought to have finished the job - of tiring out the Australian attack - which had been so painstakingly followed for seven hours : and then several failures of concentration saw six wickets thrown away instead. Then one day later when Cummins joined Smith , still ninety odd behind , the only aim should have been to throw everything at them and to hell with conserving bowlers' strength in case they had to bowl later...instead Anderson was rested !)
Lose the big moments - lose the match.

Lets see if they've learned anything.

guildfordbat wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Canterbury confirming they are in initial discussions with Ben Stokes.

I assume this must all be ok with the ECB. Just thinking about him being centrally contracted, them being none too chuffed about Bristol, etc, etc.

In this case I think theyd be happier with him playing and getting prepped for test action without breaking his unofficial suspension by putting him in the lions.

Given the ECB don't appear to be objecting to Stokes playing in New Zealand, my question then becomes - are the ECB tolerating this development or are they encouraging / arranging it? If the latter, it probably helps our Ashes' chances but leaves the ECB open to criticism about the credibility of their own investigation given they have maintained it would only commence following the police decision.

What I'm particularly unsure about is if the Bristol incident had happened early in our summer, would Stokes have been allowed by the ECB to play for Durham whilst not being picked by England? I don't know the answer to that (perhaps no one does) but my guess is that he wouldn't have been allowed.

It's wrong to take a player out of the game indefinitely because Plod can't make a decision but, not for the first time, the ECB don't look as if they are going to win any awards for openness and transparency.

I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the case but it would seem pretty clear to me that if he is being granted permission to travel to the other side of the world without any restrictions on playing then I'd say the chances of charges being made and going to court etc any time soon are non-existent. That being the case and given that the ECB don't seem to be standing in his way playing for Canterbury I don't see why he isn't just told to rejoin the Ashes squad.

Gooseberry wrote:Lehamnas been talking up the pace of Adelaide. There may be an element of phsycology there of course, trying to build the pressure on England over their continued (and unsuprising) inability to cope with anything vaguely well directed and short. His interview reiterates the intent to bounce England out. 
There is talk that they may rotate one of the seamers, its likely they will all need a rest during the series unless Aus suddenly find their own Stokes to lighten the load ( or if England keep getting all out for under 200) .
Chadd Sayers is thought to be next in on his home ground if there is a change.


This looks like it will be a low scoring game, Englands hopes of decent really seem to rest on an Aussie paceman breaking down in the first innings. I just dont see them suddenly devleoping the ability to play hostile pace, and they probably ownt get the chance to tire the Aus bowlers on a helpful pitch. They may have more joy themselves with ball in this than the previous test, but I still fancy Aus as much better placed to cut through England.

If at all anything Adelaide supports spin....and from our last series there I remember it requires a 90mph bowler to dig it in to get the ball to lift
Well that almost sounds like the Brisbane pitch
Rotating the pacers is not a good idea so early....let them go flat out for as long as they can¨
When they break down then replace them

CaledonianCraig wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Canterbury confirming they are in initial discussions with Ben Stokes.

I assume this must all be ok with the ECB. Just thinking about him being centrally contracted, them being none too chuffed about Bristol, etc, etc.

In this case I think theyd be happier with him playing and getting prepped for test action without breaking his unofficial suspension by putting him in the lions.

Given the ECB don't appear to be objecting to Stokes playing in New Zealand, my question then becomes - are the ECB tolerating this development or are they encouraging / arranging it? If the latter, it probably helps our Ashes' chances but leaves the ECB open to criticism about the credibility of their own investigation given they have maintained it would only commence following the police decision.

What I'm particularly unsure about is if the Bristol incident had happened early in our summer, would Stokes have been allowed by the ECB to play for Durham whilst not being picked by England? I don't know the answer to that (perhaps no one does) but my guess is that he wouldn't have been allowed.

It's wrong to take a player out of the game indefinitely because Plod can't make a decision but, not for the first time, the ECB don't look as if they are going to win any awards for openness and transparency.

I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the case but it would seem pretty clear to me that if he is being granted permission to travel to the other side of the world without any restrictions on playing then I'd say the chances of charges being made and going to court etc any time soon are non-existent. That being the case and given that the ECB don't seem to be standing in his way playing for Canterbury I don't see why he isn't just told to rejoin the Ashes squad.

Some cynics might suggest the ECB have to go through the pretence of an investigation first.

what does "seeking charging advice" mean? does this mean he's getting done or not?

The police only gather evidence, the cps decides whether to charge I think

Yes, the police will send details of the investigation to the CPS.

The CPS will then decide, based on evidence and public interest, whether or not to take Stokes to court.

Anyway no decision is imminent and the ECB need to do their investigation so just assume he won't be playing.

Yeah best case is 4th test for him. He needs the playing time regardless.

I dont see any issues with how the ECB have handled this, theyve done it exactly right. Not prejudiced or premepted the police investigation in anyway, kept him away from the squad in the meantime. 

Hes not had any formal ban from cricket, so they have no reason to stop him playing in NZ (although they could use the central contract if they were really concerned about him), its up to canterbury and the NZ board to decide if they are happy having him play ...and by the sounds of it there has been some debate on this. 

They have been quite fair to the player, whilst also protecting themselves and the Ashes squad from the fall out if this had truned out to be as serious as initially reported. It is looking increasingly unlikely he will be charged, but its still far from certain. 

Either way theres still elements that need to be looked at by the ECB which dont directly relate to what the CPS will be interested in. Lets assume hes not charged, but the ECB would still want to give him a stern public telling off and formal reprimand for getting into theis situation in the first place...regardless of whether he was doing the "right thing" or not. In terms of a ban ...hes effectively served it already.


Ifd anyones wondering the usual head media troll for Australia Shane Warne has been quiet on this its because he himself was charged with assault a few months ago, on a woman from the "adult industry".  For some reason an incident not widely reported or dwelt upon by the austrlaian media.

It was on the news for a day or so then after no charges were laid and the police cleared him it went away.
Not saying Warne is a perfect role model but there is something odd about that story. Maybe she was spurned by him?
I don't think he decked her in the nightclub or out on the street though... unlike what we saw Stokes do to his victim.

Doubt Stokes is playing at all but some of the coverage has been slightly holier than thou imo.

GSC wrote:Doubt Stokes is playing at all but some of the coverage has been slightly holier than thou imo.

Oh yeah, definitely.
I saw something from Ryan Harris today... something that didn't need to be said.
There must be some sort of roster of players - past and present - who have to get their dig in.  It's all just so juvenile and unsporting in my mind.

The Loaded Dog wrote:

GSC wrote:Doubt Stokes is playing at all but some of the coverage has been slightly holier than thou imo.

Oh yeah, definitely.
I saw something from Ryan Harris today... something that didn't need to be said.
There must be some sort of roster of players - past and present - who have to get their dig in.  It's all just so juvenile and unsporting in my mind.

They openly admitted in the press conference that they had waited and exageratted the Bairstow non event for impact. Bancrofts questioning on it was painful for all involved.

Its always been there, and everyone knows it ...but we are far better tuned in to how the media works now to see through this. Its a bit much when Sky and others collude in it to boost their own ratings through " talking points" rather than focussing on the thruth but again ...its nothing new.

Gooseberry wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:

GSC wrote:Doubt Stokes is playing at all but some of the coverage has been slightly holier than thou imo.

Oh yeah, definitely.
I saw something from Ryan Harris today... something that didn't need to be said.
There must be some sort of roster of players - past and present - who have to get their dig in.  It's all just so juvenile and unsporting in my mind.

They openly admitted in the press conference that they had waited and exageratted the Bairstow non event for impact. Bancrofts questioning on it was painful for all involved.

Its always been there, and everyone knows it ...but we are far better tuned in to how the media works now to see through this. Its a bit much when Sky and others collude in it to boost their own ratings through " talking points" rather than focussing on the thruth but again ...its nothing new.

I saw a bit of the Bancroft press conference with Smith giggling next to him. Pathetic and cringe worthy acting & reaction from Smith that was.

The Bureau of Meteorology is predicting heavy rain (20 year max. daily rainfall of 100-125mm) in western Victoria/the Riverina district of NSW over the next couple of days. It looks as though it will slide past south east SA on the way through Victoria but there could be showers in that area on Saturday... hopefully more on the leeward side of the ranges east of Adelaide. These storms can be pretty wild... cold air from Antarctica hits the hot air mass sitting over southern Australia. Even Hobart has had record high temperatures.

The Loaded Dog wrote:

GSC wrote:Doubt Stokes is playing at all but some of the coverage has been slightly holier than thou imo.

Oh yeah, definitely.
I saw something from Ryan Harris today... something that didn't need to be said.
There must be some sort of roster of players - past and present - who have to get their dig in.  It's all just so juvenile and unsporting in my mind.

Yeah to be honest it kinda turned me off this series before it started. It's cricket, not a pre fight boxing press conference. Seeing the spinner talking abput ending careers really hit home just how silly it all is.