Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions, 17 June

Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions
17 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Rotorua International Stadium, Rotorua

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

Played 8, Maori won 1, Lions won 7

Recently:

2005-06-11
NZ Maori 19 - 13 British and Irish Lions

1993-05-29
NZ Maori 20 - 24 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-13
NZ Maori 19 - 22 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Maori All Blacks 
J Lowe; N Milner-Skudder, M Proctor, C Ngatai, R Ioane; D McKenzie, T Kerr-Barlow; K Hames, A Dixon (capt), B May, J Wheeler, T Franklin, A Ioane, E Dixon, L Messam.

Replacements: H Elliot, C Eves, M Renata, L Price, K Pryor, B Hall, I West, R Thompson.

British & Irish Lions
L Halfpenny (Wales); A Watson (England), J Davies (Wales), B Te'o (England), G North (Wales); J Sexton, C Murray (both Ireland); M Vunipola, J George (both England), T Furlong (Ireland), M Itoje, G Kruis (both England), P O'Mahony (capt, Ireland), S O'Brien (Ireland), T Faletau (Wales).

Replacements: K Owens (Wales), J McGrath (Ireland), K Sinckler (England), I Henderson (Ireland), S Warburton (Wales), G Laidlaw (Scotland), D Biggar (Wales), E Daly (England).

C. PREVIEW

Here's my prediction for the Maori 23:
1 Kane Hames
2 Ash Dixon
3 Ben May
4 Joe Wheeler
5 Tom Franklin
6 Elliot Dixon/Liam Messam
7 Kara Prior
8 Akira Ioane
9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow
10 Otere Black
11 James Lowe
12 Charlie Ngatai
13 Rieko Ioane
14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
15 Damien McKenzie
16 Hika Elliot
17 Chris Eves
18 Marcel Renata
19 Leighton Price
20 Dixon/Messam
21 Bryn Hall
22 Ihaia West
23 Tim Bateman/Matt Proctor

Rieko Ioane is a great player, IMO. He's only 20 and has already been capped and scored a try for the All Blacks. He showed how good he is when the British & Irish Lions played the Blues, IMO. The British & Irish Lions will have a tough task containing him, IMO.

Yes Reiko stunned for the Blues this year, has hardly put a foot wrong and has that knack of being right place right time. Picking him as an AB regular from next year. Wing or Centre and big and fast with it.

11 James Lowe
12 Charlie Ngatai
13 Rieko Ioane
14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
15 Damien McKenzie



Good luck to anyone defending that

BamBam wrote:11 James Lowe
12 Charlie Ngatai
13 Rieko Ioane
14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
15 Damien McKenzie

   

Good luck to anyone defending that

There's a chance they'll play McKenzie at 10, stick Proctor at 13 & move Ioane & Nehe up a number too

Okay Kiwi lads - so something I've always wanted to know - what are the eligibility criteria for selection for the NZ Maori? 

Damien McKenzie looks even more celtic than I do.

George Carlin wrote:Okay Kiwi lads - so something I've always wanted to know - what are the eligibility criteria for selection for the NZ Maori? 

Damien McKenzie looks even more celtic than I do.

You have to be affiliated with a Maori Iwi (tribe). Generally by blood, though Pakeha (European) New Zealanders have occasionally been adopted into Iwi - hence why (for example) the 2 most common surnames for Maori in my home province of Marlborough are MacDonald (as in Leon) and Joseph (as in Jamie).

McKenzie is connected to both Ngāti Tūwharetoa (central North Island) & Ngāti Tahinga (Waikato). He was born & raised in Southland though, and technically was also eligible for Scotland before being capped by NZ last year

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Okay Kiwi lads - so something I've always wanted to know - what are the eligibility criteria for selection for the NZ Maori? 

Damien McKenzie looks even more celtic than I do.

You have to be affiliated with a Maori Iwi (tribe). Generally by blood, though Pakeha (European) New Zealanders have occasionally been adopted into Iwi - hence why (for example) the 2 most common surnames for Maori in my home province of Marlborough are MacDonald (as in Leon) and Joseph (as in Jamie).

McKenzie is connected to both Ngāti Tūwharetoa (central North Island) & Ngāti Tahinga (Waikato). He was born & raised in Southland though, and technically was also eligible for Scotland before being capped by NZ last year

I can't believe I learned something worthwhile on this forum! 

Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I urinated in next to Paul Tito in the Richmond pitcher and piano. To be precise I had Tito to my right and Xavier rush to my left.

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

Mine too! The most ginger pasty white dude on the planet! Although I appreciate it's not all about 'looking' Maori. Great nickname too: Fish, cos he was all Arms and legs.

carpet baboon wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I urinated in next to Paul Tito in the Richmond pitcher and piano. To be precise I had Tito to my right and Xavier rush to my left.

I cannot believe you didn't take the chance to ask them if they ever thought that the haka was a little bit gay...

And then obviously 

George Carlin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I urinated in next to Paul Tito in the Richmond pitcher and piano. To be precise I had Tito to my right and Xavier rush to my left.

I cannot believe you didn't take the chance to ask them if they ever thought that the haka was a little bit gay...

And then obviously 

It was after Thier cup win in the Anglo Welsh some years ago, and looked like they had been celebrating it pretty hard, so I prob could have out ran them.

But my favourite meeting a rugby player in a toilet story was meeting serevi at the millennium stadium. Had always been a hero if mine. Had got free tickets to a Friday night game between wales and Fiji ( think it ended 11-11 most boring game ever, apart from the Fiji second row outpacing the Wales backs to score) just before ko I was in the toilets thinking the suited Fijian next to me looks familiar, then as I was washing my hands (hygiene first people) I realised it was the great serevi. Said hello started chatting then he got dragged away as it was nearly ko and he was coaching the backs.

Ahh great days

carpet baboon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I urinated in next to Paul Tito in the Richmond pitcher and piano. To be precise I had Tito to my right and Xavier rush to my left.

I cannot believe you didn't take the chance to ask them if they ever thought that the haka was a little bit gay...

And then obviously 

It was after Thier cup win in the Anglo Welsh some years ago, and looked like they had been celebrating it pretty hard, so I prob could have out ran them.

But my favourite meeting a rugby player in a toilet story was meeting serevi at the millennium stadium. Had always been a hero if mine. Had got free tickets to a Friday night game between wales and Fiji ( think it ended 11-11 most boring game ever, apart from the Fiji second row outpacing the Wales backs to score) just before ko I was in the toilets thinking the suited Fijian next to me looks familiar, then as I was washing my hands (hygiene first people) I realised it was the great serevi. Said hello started chatting then he got dragged away as it was nearly ko and he was coaching the backs.

Ahh great days

Small world. I had a couple of post-match pints in the Pitcher & Piano after that Anglos Welsh final

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I urinated in next to Paul Tito in the Richmond pitcher and piano. To be precise I had Tito to my right and Xavier rush to my left.

I cannot believe you didn't take the chance to ask them if they ever thought that the haka was a little bit gay...

And then obviously 

It was after Thier cup win in the Anglo Welsh some years ago, and looked like they had been celebrating it pretty hard, so I prob could have out ran them.

But my favourite meeting a rugby player in a toilet story was meeting serevi at the millennium stadium. Had always been a hero if mine. Had got free tickets to a Friday night game between wales and Fiji ( think it ended 11-11 most boring game ever, apart from the Fiji second row outpacing the Wales backs to score) just before ko I was in the toilets thinking the suited Fijian next to me looks familiar, then as I was washing my hands (hygiene first people) I realised it was the great serevi. Said hello started chatting then he got dragged away as it was nearly ko and he was coaching the backs.

Ahh great days

Small world. I had a couple of post-match pints in the Pitcher & Piano after that Anglos Welsh final

I remember it being packed and ridiculously​ hot.

carpet baboon wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I urinated in next to Paul Tito in the Richmond pitcher and piano. To be precise I had Tito to my right and Xavier rush to my left.

I cannot believe you didn't take the chance to ask them if they ever thought that the haka was a little bit gay...

And then obviously 

It was after Thier cup win in the Anglo Welsh some years ago, and looked like they had been celebrating it pretty hard, so I prob could have out ran them.

But my favourite meeting a rugby player in a toilet story was meeting serevi at the millennium stadium. Had always been a hero if mine. Had got free tickets to a Friday night game between wales and Fiji ( think it ended 11-11 most boring game ever, apart from the Fiji second row outpacing the Wales backs to score) just before ko I was in the toilets thinking the suited Fijian next to me looks familiar, then as I was washing my hands (hygiene first people) I realised it was the great serevi. Said hello started chatting then he got dragged away as it was nearly ko and he was coaching the backs.

Ahh great days

Small world. I had a couple of post-match pints in the Pitcher & Piano after that Anglos Welsh final

I remember it being packed and ridiculously​ hot.

Aye. We wound up heading in to Waxy O'Connors in Picadilly Circus from memory

Evening all, beginning to realise I can't keep up with the younger lads out here but seriously some of these lads have stuggled to even make it to KO, such a waste of money.

TightHEAD wrote:Evening all, beginning to realise I can't keep up with the younger lads out here but seriously some of these lads have stuggled to even make it to KO, such a waste of money.

Take a 606v2 photo at the next game!

Ha.

Lions need a Plan B still, without a different 10 option like Ford or Russell instead of Biggar that's just not possible.

I'd like to see Kruis and Itoje being paired together vs the Maoris as the strongest and most cohesive 2nd row partnership IMO.

Of course I am biased but I want to see a Saracens front five + Furlong. I think that's the best shot at continuity.

Other selections I think are open for a bit more experimentation.

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I will never forget this pic of him

What a guy!

Whoa, that is some picture! Pink strip, red face, orange hair. It's an assault on the eyes.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Here's my prediction for the Maori 23:
1 Kane Hames
2 Ash Dixon
3 Ben May
4 Joe Wheeler
5 Tom Franklin
6 Elliot Dixon/Liam Messam
7 Kara Prior
8 Akira Ioane
9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow
10 Otere Black
11 James Lowe
12 Charlie Ngatai
13 Rieko Ioane
14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
15 Damien McKenzie
16 Hika Elliot
17 Chris Eves
18 Marcel Renata
19 Leighton Price
20 Dixon/Messam
21 Bryn Hall
22 Ihaia West
23 Tim Bateman/Matt Proctor

That back-line is a mouthwatering prospect. I really hope Charlie Ngatai can take part after his concussion troubles - a really brilliant player who would complement the rest of the backs very well. The Lions will have to really go some to beat this lot.

EST wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Here's my prediction for the Maori 23:
1 Kane Hames
2 Ash Dixon
3 Ben May
4 Joe Wheeler
5 Tom Franklin
6 Elliot Dixon/Liam Messam
7 Kara Prior
8 Akira Ioane
9 Tawera Kerr-Barlow
10 Otere Black
11 James Lowe
12 Charlie Ngatai
13 Rieko Ioane
14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
15 Damien McKenzie
16 Hika Elliot
17 Chris Eves
18 Marcel Renata
19 Leighton Price
20 Dixon/Messam
21 Bryn Hall
22 Ihaia West
23 Tim Bateman/Matt Proctor

That back-line is a mouthwatering prospect.  I really hope Charlie Ngatai can take part after his concussion troubles - a really brilliant player who would complement the rest of the backs very well.  The Lions will have to really go some to beat this lot.

The forwards look manageable. 

The backs look unplayable if they get some momentum.

Black is the weakest player in the backline - do a job on him and we can contain the backs .. although Mckenzie will help him out

BamBam wrote:Black is the weakest player in the backline - do a job on him and we can contain the backs .. although Mckenzie will help him out

They might just spring a surprise & start DMac at 10 too - he's filled in there a bit for the Chiefs this season & is lined up to replace Cruden next season. Proctor into 13, Ioane to 14 & Milner-Skudder to 15 is still tasty (Ioane is probably a better wing than 13)

yappysnap wrote:

chris_501 wrote:Paul Tito was always my favourite Maori!

I will never forget this pic of him

What a guy!

Still makes me chuckle.

I don't know much about Black, other than he was very highly rated as a youngster. Just noticed Matt Proctor as well, who was keeping Aso on the wing for the Canes before injury.

Looks like some people have a little bit of the green eyed monster about them this evening.

Keep the red votes coming if it makes you happy lol

BamBam wrote:Black is the weakest player in the backline - do a job on him and we can contain the backs .. although Mckenzie will help him out

 Do that then they might replace him with West, and we all saw what he did to the Lions Wednesday last week.

TightHEAD wrote:Looks like some people have a little bit of the green eyed monster about them this evening.

Keep the red votes coming if it makes you happy lol

What's your weather like over there, Tighty?

George Carlin wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Looks like some people have a little bit of the green eyed monster about them this evening.

Keep the red votes coming if it makes you happy lol

What's your weather like over there, Tighty?

Hot air.

EST wrote:I don't know much about Black, other than he was very highly rated as a youngster.  Just noticed Matt Proctor as well, who was keeping Aso on the wing for the Canes before injury.

Black's moving to the Blues next season IIRC to replace Francis - likely to be the starting 10 as West is too inconsistent, unless Perofeta steps up.. He's currently Barrett's backup for the Hurricanes

Are any of them uncapped and England qualified?

#askingforafriend

Gooseberry wrote:Are any of them uncapped and England qualified?

#askingforafriend

Already capped in the squad:
Kane Hames
Elliot Dixon
Liam Messam
Akira Ioane (7s - was also Samoa qualified - his mother is Maori & played for NZ Women, Dad played for Samoa)
Tawera Kerr-Barlow
Charlie Ngatai
Rieko Ioane (was also Samoa qualified - his mother is Maori & played for NZ Women, Dad played for Samoa)
NMS
DMac
Hika Elliot
Declan O'Donnell (7s - was also Irish qualified)

No idea re. other qualifications

Am still pissed that Ihaia West chose the boring perfection of NZ instead of the never-ending cycle of glorious defeat and functional alcoholism which he would have enjoyed were he to have chosen the polyester blue of a Scotland shirt.

And don't even start me on the fact that Richie McCaw could have played for Scotland too.

George Carlin wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Looks like some people have a little bit of the green eyed monster about them this evening.

Keep the red votes coming if it makes you happy lol

What's your weather like over there, Tighty?

The weather in Cardiff has been good today. A little bit cloudy for some of it but still very warm.

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Looks like some people have a little bit of the green eyed monster about them this evening.

Keep the red votes coming if it makes you happy lol

What's your weather like over there, Tighty?

The weather in Cardiff has been good today. A little bit cloudy for some of it but still very warm.

No chances of an instant downpour then? I understand the England cricket team badly need it ASAP at Sophia Gardens

My team:
Watson, Seymour, JJ, Farrell, North, Sexton, Muray;
Marler, Owens, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Haskell, Warburton, Faletau.
Replacements should be; George, Mako, Furlong, Henderson, Tipuric, Webb, Biggar, Te'o

mikey_dragon wrote:My team:
Watson, Seymour, JJ, Farrell, North, Sexton, Muray;
Marler, Owens, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Haskell, Warburton, Faletau.
Replacements should be; George, Mako, Furlong, Henderson, Tipuric, Webb, Biggar, Te'o

What do you think the chances of the Lions playing Sexton/Farrell together? I think they've got to, based on what we have seen so far, but I can't see Gatland making the same decision.

Think it would be silly not to give it a go when the best performance the Lions have shown on tour has been the half of rugby that they played together

mikey_dragon wrote:My team:
Watson, Seymour, JJ, Farrell, North, Sexton, Muray;
Marler, Owens, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Haskell, Warburton, Faletau.
Replacements should be; George, Mako, Furlong, Henderson, Tipuric, Webb, Biggar, Te'o

Pretty decent side - though doubt Haskell will make it ahead of POM, and I'd take Daly/Williams on the bench over Biggar, with 2 10s starting on the pitch better to look for an impact sub option

EST why should the Lions put their best performing 10 on the tour so far at 12?

Mikey Dragon why Haskell?

I would pick -

Williams
Watson
Joseph
T'eo
North
Farrell
Murray

Vunipola
George
Furlong
Kruis
Itoje
O Mahony (c)
Tipuric
Faletau

Marler
Owens
Sinckler
AWJ
Stander
Webb
Biggar
Daly

Does anyone not think Haskell has played well? POM might have an advantage as a lineout jumper but I think Haskell is a better flanker. He's been an absolute nuisance for opposition and happens to be an immovable object when he hits a ruck - that's the kind of flanker I like. Based on what I've seen I would certainly start Farrell and Sexton, the midweek backs can't catch or pass well enough to face the ABs. If Gatland has the same idea then he really needs to call up an extra 10. Anscombe is currently in NZ....

beshocked wrote:EST why should the Lions put their best performing 10 on the tour so far at 12?

Mikey Dragon why Haskell?

I would pick -

Williams
Watson
Joseph
T'eo
North
Farrell
Murray

Vunipola
George
Furlong
Kruis
Itoje
O Mahony (c)
Tipuric
Faletau

Marler
Owens
Sinckler
AWJ
Stander
Webb
Biggar
Daly

I thought the Sexton/Farrell showed up well against the Crusaders, and having witnessed some of the quality of passing on the tour so far, I would argue we need two ball players in midfield.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:My team:
Watson, Seymour, JJ, Farrell, North, Sexton, Muray;
Marler, Owens, Sinckler, Itoje, Kruis, Haskell, Warburton, Faletau.
Replacements should be; George, Mako, Furlong, Henderson, Tipuric, Webb, Biggar, Te'o

Pretty decent side - though doubt Haskell will make it ahead of POM, and I'd take Daly/Williams on the bench over Biggar, with 2 10s starting on the pitch better to look for an impact sub option

Smart move with 2 out of 3 fly-halves starting I guess. Just don't ask Daly to come on and take a kick at goal.

mikey_dragon wrote:Does anyone not think Haskell has played well? POM might have an advantage as a lineout jumper but I think Haskell is a better flanker. He's been an absolute nuisance for opposition and happens to be an immovable object when he hits a ruck - that's the kind of flanker I like. Based on what I've seen I would certainly start Farrell and Sexton, the midweek backs can't catch or pass well enough to face the ABs. If Gatland has the same idea then he really needs to call up an extra 10. Anscombe is currently in NZ....

General consensus is that Hask has been rubbish actually Mikey

I agree on Sexton and Farrell together. Can't see Gatland doing it mind.

Anscombe is a rubbish 10 so please call him up

It would make sense to call up Anscombe if they need someone at short notice, he wouldn't get near the test team though. There are another 3 welsh fly-halves in NZ but only Anscombe has super rugby experience which might give him an advantage. Gats could always call up Ford though.

mikey_dragon wrote:It would make sense to call up Anscombe if they need someone at short notice, he wouldn't get near the test team though. There are another 3 welsh fly-halves in NZ but only Anscombe has super rugby experience which might give him an advantage. Gats could always call up Ford though.

As long as his flight is booked to leave Santa Fe on Sunday morning and not before!

Russell is another option and is closer to NZ.

If Gatland goes Murray/Sexton/Farrell in the test team, then I'd have Webb and Te'o on the bench and Laidlaw and Biggar start the midweek games. I'd stick Webb and a couple of outside backs on the bench, but I'd be looking at both those guys to last the 80. If either go down injured, you can bring Webb on at 9 with Biggar, or with Laidlaw switching across.