British & Irish Lions should treat the remaining games like a Baabaas Tour as 'THE TOUR IS OVER'

Based on what I've seen so far and on the form of players/coaches during the 6 nations.............The Tour is already over.
We might as well accept that the task of bringing together this number of players in the timescales that we had is simple not enough to beat NZ in NZ.

Lets treat it as a Baabaas Tour go out there and have fun throwing the ball around the park and play entertaining rugby for the fans.

As we already know Gatlands and Howley's tactics are not up to the job to beating top class NZ talent, so what the hell have fun lads.

Or c implement tactics which we get the best out of this group of players. I'd go c.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Or c implement tactics which we get the best out of this group of players. I'd go c.

Sadly Gatland is too stubborn to do that.

I wouldn't say Gatland alone is entirely to blame for the stodgy tactics.

Howley of course is in charge of backs and Farrell Sr is IMO a very negative coach in terms of attacking play.

I've always felt Farrell Sr has restricted teams as a coach in an attacking sense, whether it's Saracens,England,Ireland or the Lions.

Need to have an attacked minded individual to negate the Farrell Sr effect.

Combining Farrell Sr and Howley is deadly.

I don't think it's a coincidence that since Farrell Sr left Saracens and England, the try count has gone up.

Farrell Sr is the defense coach on Tour.

It wasn't perfect today and SBW try was shocking as everyone was ball watching, but you can't blame Farrell Sr for the blunt attack with no options other than kick the ball away.

Don't think it matters, as I said after the last game I believe they'll lose every game on tour from here in, as that is their level.

Despite the Sky sports hype this is an incredibly weak Lions squad, stacked with average players but lacking world class ones.

When you factor in a poor coaching team then it's pretty obvious they are going to be shown up pretty badly and that is before the tests.

Erm. 2015 six nations 18 tries scored. 2016 13 tries. 2017 16 tries.

beshocked wrote:...I've always felt Farrell Sr has restricted teams as a coach in an attacking sense, whether it's Saracens,England,Ireland or the Lions...

Andy Farrell has beaten New Zealand twice as part of a coaching team.

Tighthead the defence coach has an important duty because defence can be turned into attack.


Record reads - 2 tries scored, 4 conceded in 2 games. That's very poor.

rodders not sure if you are trolling or not. The Lions squad is quite strong, just not good enough coaches in general.

I don't think the coaches have a bad squad to work with at all. Sure missing Billy isn't great but Faletau is a good player and Stander is a good backrower (calling him that now).


no 7 & 1/2 England 2012 - 7 tries,  2013 - 5 tries, 2014 -  14

For Saracens - 2009-10  - 39, 2010-11 - 35, 2011-12 - 35,


After Farrell left - 2012-13 - 41, 2013-14 -68, 2014-15 - 70, 60 - 2015-16. 66 - 2016/17


In general without Farrell, try count goes up.

Rugby Fan wrote:

beshocked wrote:...I've always felt Farrell Sr has restricted teams as a coach in an attacking sense, whether it's Saracens,England,Ireland or the Lions...

Andy Farrell has beaten New Zealand twice as part of a coaching team.

Good point!

Howley and Gatland on the other hand....

beshocked wrote:Tighthead the defence coach has an important duty because defence can be turned into attack.


Record reads - 2 tries scored, 4 conceded in 2 games. That's very poor.

rodders not sure if you are trolling or not. The Lions squad is quite strong, just not good enough coaches in general.

I don't think the coaches have a bad squad to work with at all. Sure missing Billy isn't great but Faletau is a good player and Stander is a good backrower (calling him that now).

Defense can only turn into attack if you can steal the ball and don't kick it away all the time.

Rugby Fan wrote:

beshocked wrote:...I've always felt Farrell Sr has restricted teams as a coach in an attacking sense, whether it's Saracens,England,Ireland or the Lions...

Andy Farrell has beaten New Zealand twice as part of a coaching team.

Yes because England and Ireland outscored NZ in points. It was more about attack than defence IMO.

beshocked, you don't like any of the Farrell family do you?

I bet his mum is a really bad cook too.

Cyril wrote:beshocked, you don't like any of the Farrell family do you?

I bet his mum is a really bad cook too.

No I don't. They are what I would call feral.

Ah come on.

two games in and you're declaring the tour over?

beshocked wrote:

Cyril wrote:beshocked, you don't like any of the Farrell family do you?

I bet his mum is a really bad cook too.

No I don't. They are what I would call feral.

Being a good rugby player does not make for a good person - that applies to both.

The feral Farrells?

Cyril wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Cyril wrote:beshocked, you don't like any of the Farrell family do you?

I bet his mum is a really bad cook too.

No I don't. They are what I would call feral.

Being a good rugby player does not make for a good person - that applies to both.

The feral Farrells?

Good nickname. Can't believe I didn't think of that myself.

Good shout.

Cyril wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Cyril wrote:beshocked, you don't like any of the Farrell family do you?

I bet his mum is a really bad cook too.

No I don't. They are what I would call feral.

Being a good rugby player does not make for a good person - that applies to both.

The feral Farrells?

They pushed past him at the reduced section in Tesco's once.

He'll never forgive them for taking all the 12p chicken sandwiches that day.

TightHEAD wrote:

Cyril wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Cyril wrote:beshocked, you don't like any of the Farrell family do you?

I bet his mum is a really bad cook too.

No I don't. They are what I would call feral.

Being a good rugby player does not make for a good person - that applies to both.

The feral Farrells?

They pushed past him at the reduced section in Tesco's once.

He'll  never forgive them for taking all the 12p chicken sandwiches that day.  

That's quite funny actually.

Anyway back on topic - despite all the doom and gloom, at least the Lions have won 1 game.

So Farrell came into england and the tries increased through his coaching tenure and he left and they went down. Cheers beshocked.

And calling them feral. Come on. If you won't say what they did to you you also can't call them that.

no 7 & 1/2 why does it matter so much to you? Are you Farrell Jr's minder? I wouldn't say it, if I didn't have good reasons to.

You seriously think Farrell Sr had a positive impact on England's attack?

I can step back and say Farrell Jr is an excellent rugby player and deserves to start 10 for the Lions as things stand.

I don't have to like him to say that.

Just saying you're hissy fit over the Farrells may be tainting your view as the last 6 nations Farrell overawed any coaching for England there were a lot of tries.

Hissy fit? Ha. Call it that if you want - you know nothing.

You are cherrypicking 1 season, even you wouldn't argue the increase in tries was down to Farrell Sr.

I feel that England and Saracens are more well rounded teams since Farrell Sr left. You can agree to disagree.

Both teams seem to have really suffered without him...

The point is you dislike him so try to put him/them both down. Farrells coaching is pretty widely praised. He certainly wasn't a hindrance to England try coring in he end. Perhaps it has something to do with the players improving and of course different players becoming available through the tenure. You're just too close.and seemingly.emotional to judge well.

We were diabolical in the world cup and a lot of the blame went Farrells way, are you forgetting that?

I think if they approached the upcoming matches with a Baa-baas mentality - it would get worse. The Kiwis can match and raise the ante like flicking on that light switch over there. (or by remote if you have one of those)

Best stick to some sort of modified 'warrenball'... v.13 perhaps?

Honestly, now is not the time to tear up the script and throw all caution to the wind. That would most likely prove disastrous. They must somehow try and consolidate... and push on as planned... whilst obviously taking notice of what they have been up against so far.

We need to pick a back three who scare the opposition - Hogg, North and Watson for me

Williams, Halfpenny, Nowell and Daly offered nothing offensively

'IF AT FIRST YOU DON'T SUCCEED, TRY, TRY AGAIN.'

Warren Gatland on Warrenball 2017

geoff999rugby wrote:We need to pick a back three who scare the opposition - Hogg, North and Watson for me

Williams, Halfpenny, Nowell and Daly offered nothing offensively

The ball never came their way to be fair, but 1/2p hasn't beaten a defender in years.

beshocked wrote:
rodders not sure if you are trolling or not. The Lions squad is quite strong, just not good enough coaches in general.

No I'm not, I think it is strong in terms of depth but only because there area a lot of average players competing with each other.

I don't think there are many world class players there compared to the last few tours.

TightHEAD wrote:Farrell Sr is the defense coach on Tour.

It wasn't perfect today and SBW try was shocking as everyone was ball watching, but you can't blame Farrell Sr for the blunt attack with no options other than kick the ball away.

I don't know how it broke down for the Lions, but certainly when Farrell was in the England set-up, he was in charge of the backs and Catt was "skills" coach.

What it meant was Farrell was in charge of the shape and vision for the backs in attack and defence, while Catt would help them execute their skills.

Gatland reminds me of a Great War British General.

Over the top lads, remember to walk slowly!

Dam and blast it, that didn't work, never mind we'll try it again.

and again........... Next.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Erm. 2015 six nations 18 tries scored. 2016 13 tries. 2017 16 tries.

2015 did had that aberration of a game vs France. 55-35, scored about 9 in that game?

Certainly if we'd managed to put Scotland to the sword at Twickenham a week earlier, we would have had a much better shot at the Championship. Despite being on top for long periods, we only won by 12.

If anyone thinks I'm being harsh on Scotland here, they did lose at home to Italy the week before and by 30 at home to Ireland a week later, completing zero from five. This wasn't the Scotland team of today, they were there fore the taking.

And we only scored 3 times. Just think to say having Farrell as a coach means you will score less tries isn't true. Especially while saying look at the stats.

geoff999rugby wrote:We need to pick a back three who scare the opposition - Hogg, North and Watson for me

Williams, Halfpenny, Nowell and Daly offered nothing offensively

There's no point changing the back three if the play-making from the 10 and centres is lacking. Biggar is solid but seems a bit lacking, Sexton is way off-form and Henshaw and Payne were solid but uninspiring.

Henshaw did well but I agree re 10 has to be Farrell.
Henshaw was the only back 10 to 15 to come out of the game with any credit

Payne is there as a defensive organiser - I suspect Davies will start in the tests.
Joseph is too iffy defensively

Just not true.

That still makes me laugh now.

Nothing to see here, Tour over, go home.

TightHEAD wrote:Nothing to see here, Tour over, go home.

how much money did you waste?

Who would be stupid enough to shell out on a Lions tour to NZ

Gwlad wrote:Who would be stupid enough to shell out on a Lions tour to NZ  

The British and Irish Lions?

Gwlad wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Nothing to see here, Tour over, go home.

how much money did you waste?  

Who would be stupid enough to shell out on a Lions tour to NZ  

 It cost me $300 for last nights game.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Nothing to see here, Tour over, go home.

how much money did you waste?  

Who would be stupid enough to shell out on a Lions tour to NZ  

 It cost me $300 for last nights game.

That's £166.60 according to Google. How many tickets? Does that include travel, food and drinks? Seems a lot.

Cyril wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Nothing to see here, Tour over, go home.

how much money did you waste?  

Who would be stupid enough to shell out on a Lions tour to NZ  

 It cost me $300 for last nights game.

That's £166.60 according to Google. How many tickets? Does that include travel, food and drinks? Seems a lot.

 That was for me and the missus. tickets only, however you can travel for free on the trains if you have a ticket to Eden Park.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Cyril wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Nothing to see here, Tour over, go home.

how much money did you waste?  

Who would be stupid enough to shell out on a Lions tour to NZ  

 It cost me $300 for last nights game.

That's £166.60 according to Google. How many tickets? Does that include travel, food and drinks? Seems a lot.

 That was for me and the missus. tickets only, however you can travel for free on the trains if you have a ticket to Eden Park.

Ok. Congrats on the win. Hope you enjoyed the game (I'm sure you did!). The better side won   The winning try is one of the best I've seen in ages.

Good to see the NZ press has pointed out the inappropriate nature of a haka with throat slitting in it. Unbelievable really.

Actually what am I saying, totally believable

Gwlad wrote:Good to see the NZ press has pointed out the inappropriate nature of a haka with throat slitting in it. Unbelievable really.

Not seen the reports, but does it really harm anybody?

Not a fan of the Haka being overused, but surely the main news is how the Lions should try and evolve the Warren/Howlerball tactics?

Gwlad wrote:Good to see the NZ press has pointed out the inappropriate nature of a haka with throat slitting in it. Unbelievable really.

At least it gives some of you guys something to whinge about. That's a small victory, right?

It's sad really to see a modern nation so obsessed with violence. Michael Jones is doing good work though.