Stade vs Bath

Anyone watching? 18 all with 10 to go. Bath been in the ascendancy in the second half, especially in the last 20 minutes or so.

23-18 with the conversion in front of the posts to come. 8 and half to go. Carries well over the gainline by Joseph and Freuan got Bath on the front-foot, Ford puts Stooke through a hole to go under the posts.

Weird game.

Now weirder.

Never expected Ford to get that kick. He's not a good enough kicker for such moments, and I suspect quite a few of his team mates would rather have taken a tap.

Bath did everything right with their comeback but played brainless rugby when they had the lead in the last moments. Stade gave them several turnovers where they could have taken control of the game in the last minutes but they blew it.

My stream cut out after the Stooke try. Didn't miss much then!

Can't believe Bath threw that one away, they looked so untroubled!

That's a shame....would have been good to have 2 Aviva Prem sides in the Amlin final.
Didn't see the game.....did it look like one of those games where Fords confidence was shaken a bit?

propdavid_london wrote:That's a shame....would have been good to have 2 Aviva Prem sides in the Amlin final.  
Didn't see the game.....did it look like one of those games where Fords confidence was shaken a bit?

He's getting flack in some reports but that's a little unfair. Stade did keep running at him, and usually made yards even when he completed a tackle, so his defence will be questioned again. His main failure was goalkicking, missing a conversion that he probably should have got, and that late penalty to tie. Good kickers would have succeeded but I never had any confidence in Ford's ability to do so. He had done well in the second half to set up Bath's comeback, so there was a lot to like about other parts of his play.

Louw said afterwards that there was no time left for a kick to the corner, and he wasn't confident of his side's ability in the scrum. I still think he should have called for a tap. By doing that, they could have created a winning score, or won a more kickable penalty.

Having said that. Bath were criminal in letting Stade back into that game. Even in the last moments, Watson and Roko had a two-on-one. Watson could have gone himself, or drawn the man but did neither.

Blooming Leicester reject, send him packing now.

Cheers Fan, sounds as if there were a few issues for Bath then.

Tighthead - I guess that will be an issue for Tigers to address next season.
You would think that they will have to find a reliable 2nd or even 1st option for place kicking in their starting 15. In the same way Farrell covers for Ford in that regard in England.
You kind of feel that Ford might be that luxury player that is great if you can accommodate him! If you cant and he has an off day then you could be in a bit of trouble.

Bath kind of did that with the signing of Homer - but they didn't start that many games together. They also lost Devoto and are now also loosing the young hastings - but bringing in a 10 that is a bit more consistent (Burns).

So, who is likely to be the back-up place kicker for Tigers?

Genuinely disappointed Bath lost, as it would have been so much more enjoyable to beat you in the final! We'll just have to settle for losing to Stade instead...

Ford was at fault for more than his goal kicking, however, the reason Bath lost is they didn't turn up in the 1st half, where they were woeful.

Wouldn't be so negative HKC - Your lads have shown they can deal with massive French units (incidentally hope that La Rochelle no.4 is cited for that cheap shot on Heinz).

propdavid_london wrote:(incidentally hope that La Rochelle no.4 is cited for that cheap shot on Heinz).

He made two cheap shots, or you have mistaken Heinz for Hibbard?

https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/855896207113297922

Both were cheap shots by tubby, but it showed we rattled them. I'm still slightly stunned by it all, as given how good their home record is and how bad our away record is, this surely was a guaranteed loss for us. The defence was truly excellent and the hyperbolic among us could liken it to the Glorious Glosters!

I hope the ref apologised afterwards to Hibbard, for implying he was a cheat.

What do you mean Glaws are in the final, I thought it was Richmond!

HA, they were Richmond like colours.........Yes, forgot about the Hibbard incident.
But the Heinz one is one that stood out for me, Off the ball - dropped elbow to the ribs and a possible knee too for his trouble. Really cynical - if the elbow had gone anywhere near the head and it would have been an instant red for me.

propdavid_london wrote:Cheers Fan, sounds as if there were a few issues for Bath then.

Tighthead - I guess that will be an issue for Tigers to address next season.  
You would think that they will have to find a reliable 2nd or even 1st option for place kicking in their starting 15.  In the same way Farrell covers for Ford in that regard in England.  
You kind of feel that Ford might be that luxury player that is great if you can accommodate him! If you cant and he has an off day then you could be in a bit of trouble.

Bath kind of did that with the signing of Homer - but they didn't start that many games together. They also lost Devoto and are now also loosing the young hastings - but bringing in a 10 that is a bit more consistent (Burns).

Burns is only consistent off the tee he is still frustrating in general play. He has improved a lot, particularly his game management but his ability to go missing still remains. Ford really gave him a kicking in "The Clash" and showed the difference of an international dictating play as opposed to a good club level player.

Ford's inability to kick consistently off the tee is a concern for Tigers. Toomua at 12 is one option woth both scrum half's in Youngs and Harrison able to fulfill the duty as well. Young George Worth the utility back (primarily a 15) is also more than capable of kicking for goal. Problem is none have the experience of doing it week in week out at the top level.

Agree Toomua would fill that role, taking the pressure off Ford - forgot that he was on the Tigers books! However, hasn't played much before injury, and may not be relied on to play a full season either.

Is the general feeling that Freddie Burns international career has gone as far as it will?
Certainly Bath may be happy to get some consistency over the international window if Freddies international career is done.

propdavid_london wrote:Agree Toomua would fill that role, taking the pressure off Ford - forgot that he was on the Tigers books! However, hasn't played much before injury, and may not be relied on to play a full season either.

Is the general feeling that Freddie Burns international career has gone as far as it will?
Certainly Bath may be happy to get some consistency over the international window if Freddies international career is done.

Short of an injury crisis I don't see how he'll get another cap. There's young flyhalfs like Lozowski and Slade that have pushed him down the pecking order. 

Bath have also got Priestland so they've got decent but not top end options. Tigers only other specialist flyhalfs are set to be Joe Ford and Hardwick an England under 18 international who there's some buzz surrounding.

According to Statbunker Ford has a 78% kicking success rate throughout his career compared to 79% for Freddie. Stats never tell the full story but there isn't a substantial difference in the difficulty of the kicks they attempt. Burns' success rate is improving while Ford's isn't but it's important to remember that he's a couple of years behind in his development, he's no worse now than Freddie was 2/3 years ago.

Owen Williams is the bigger loss to Tigers when it comes to kicking from the tee. His rate might also be 79% but he attempts kicks from a considerably longer distance than Ford and Burns.

Going a bit off topic - but how about the next gen of 10's - Ive heard a lot about this Max Malins (who I think plays mostly at 15). And the Lon Irish kid - Theo Brophy Clewes - are either of these chaps more consistent place kickers? (or that complete package?).

The production line is looking healthy.....I just want to know if we are starting to develop 10s that can do everything without any obvious issues.

Slade - seems to be well rounded, but there are ? over his game management.
Ford - Kicking %, defence?
Farrell - Distribution and gameline attack (much improved when in 12 slot)
Cipriani - Kicking %, defence, temperament

Theo Brophy-Clewes has reminded me of Slade when I've seen him play. Not as big or as physical but a season in the Championship should have given him game management experience and toughened him up.

Mallins looks like a different prospect. Very quick footed, excellent footballer. Be interesting to see how he develops. A loan deal at Bedford for next season for starters I'd guess. Two England squad 10 options ahead of him in the pecking order at Sarries might make it tough for him to breakthrough.

Both are in the JWC squad so lets see what they can do.
I know TBC was injured in the last WC, and that was the reason that Mallinder was starting 10 rather than in the centres.

propdavid_london wrote:Both are in the JWC squad so lets see what they can do.  
I know TBC was injured in the last WC, and that was the reason that Mallinder was starting 10 rather than in the centres.  

That and England had some very tasty centres without Mallinder. Williams and Marchant were a good combo.

The injury to TBC saved Martin Haag from having to make a difficult decision.

The call ups of the Curry's brothers has saved him from another one this year.