England vs Italy

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28 players that have been kept.

Forwards (16): Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Backs (12): Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Not sure Hartley will even make the Lions squad based on his six nations so far. Average in two games poor today. Definitely wont be captain. Need someone who at the very least understands the rules of the game.

Farrell has had the worst game of any potential 10 for the Lions. Sexton was about 5 times better than his yesterday.

*laws

People keep saying this. But refs have different interpretations so it it was good captaining to get poite to explain

Not even Poite knew, he just waved his arms in the air every 2 seconds and hoped for the best.

Daly try better than I first gave it credit for. Nice offloads from Maro and Courts.

Brown was poor. Very soft tackle effort on Campanaro.

tigertattie wrote:This has been a game completely void of structure, shape and sense.

I'm looking forward to France vs Italy

If they do it again now teams will have prepared for it they'll ship 100 points ... I think it's negative as it's surely only a one-off spoiling tactic that won't get you anywhere ultimately - surely better to try to improve in a way that has a long term future ...

I feel sorry for the fans as they didn't get to see a real rugby game,

World Rugby has to implement a rule change, and the six nations need to bring in relegation as this is a rugby competition not a lesson in laws of the game. Italy need to man up and play the game or stick to football and let a real team play. Georgia deserve to come in.

mid_gen wrote:Brown had a typically solid game for me.

Indeed he did, but the thing is we need more than he gives us.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Brown was poor. Very soft tackle effort on Campanaro.

He didn't have a great game, but I'd look at positive side instead and say Campanaro did a great couple of steps to score.

after that it's fair say Ireland are favourites for the 6N now.  they have the points difference, eng at home and certainly handled italy far better (though none of this off side line crap was going on).

I imagine Scotland are fancying the win too now.

in the end though 6 tries was not too bad in a game like that.

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Not sure Hartley will even make the Lions squad based on his six nations so far. Average in two games poor today. Definitely wont be captain. Need someone who at the very least understands the rules of the game.

Farrell has had the worst game of any potential 10 for the Lions. Sexton was about 5 times better than his yesterday.

*laws

People keep saying this. But refs have different interpretations so it it was good captaining to get poite to explain

It was terrible captaining, he hadn't a clue what was going on and completely failed to adapt to it.

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Brown was poor. Very soft tackle effort on Campanaro.

He didn't have a great game, but I'd look at positive side instead and say Campanaro did a great couple of steps to score.

There was about 4 England defenders immediately around him . He should have been levelled

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Not sure Hartley will even make the Lions squad based on his six nations so far. Average in two games poor today. Definitely wont be captain. Need someone who at the very least understands the rules of the game.

Farrell has had the worst game of any potential 10 for the Lions. Sexton was about 5 times better than his yesterday.

*laws

People keep saying this. But refs have different interpretations so it it was good captaining to get poite to explain

It was terrible captaining, he hadn't a clue what was going on.

No it wasn't, I disagree. You communicate with the ref.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Brown was poor. Very soft tackle effort on Campanaro.

He didn't have a great game, but I'd look at positive side instead and say Campanaro did a great couple of steps to score.

There was about 4 England defenders immediately around him . He should have been levelled

I was talking about the step on brown, not the missed tackles prior.

Poite reffed that awfully, the majority of the time a ruck was formed with the Italians then disengaging.

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Not sure Hartley will even make the Lions squad based on his six nations so far. Average in two games poor today. Definitely wont be captain. Need someone who at the very least understands the rules of the game.

Farrell has had the worst game of any potential 10 for the Lions. Sexton was about 5 times better than his yesterday.

*laws

People keep saying this. But refs have different interpretations so it it was good captaining to get poite to explain

It was terrible captaining, he hadn't a clue what was going on.

No it wasn't, I disagree. You communicate with the ref.

Sure but you dont ask him what you are meant to do. Laughable. Poor captain.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Loving the Italian tactics today, great to see that such things can come off.

they lost and conceded beyond the 4 try bonus point.. so not entirely.

I'm really glad we've had this game today.

The players will really be scratching their heads and will have had their confidence punctured.

The response will be really interesting against Scotland?

England still favourites. Italy did their thing (the in-game puzzle) - that stalled England for a good long time but it was always clear that they'd come out with more pace and menace in the second half. They scored some very quick lethal tries. It would have been a hefty score had Italy played the game conventionally and not maddened the hell out of TightHEAD

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Not sure Hartley will even make the Lions squad based on his six nations so far. Average in two games poor today. Definitely wont be captain. Need someone who at the very least understands the rules of the game.

Farrell has had the worst game of any potential 10 for the Lions. Sexton was about 5 times better than his yesterday.

*laws

People keep saying this. But refs have different interpretations so it it was good captaining to get poite to explain

It was terrible captaining, he hadn't a clue what was going on.

No it wasn't, I disagree. You communicate with the ref.

Sure but you dont ask him what you are meant to do. Laughable. Poor captain.

In your head maybe.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Loving the Italian tactics today, great to see that such things can come off.

they lost and conceded beyond the 4 try bonus point.. so not entirely.

containing that electric England side to less than 40 is a 'victory' for this Italian side

England havnt played great against France, Wales and now embarrassed a little bit by Italy...

Surely that will have hurt and they MUST put in two big performances for the remainder of this 6n.

trebellbobaggins wrote:after that it's fair say Ireland are favourites for the 6N now.  they have the points difference, eng at home and certainly handled italy far better (though none of this off side line crap was going on).

I imagine Scotland are fancying the win too now.  

in the end though 6 tries was not too bad in a game like that.

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Poite reffed that awfully, the majority of the time a ruck was formed with the Italians then disengaging.

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

nathan wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Not sure Hartley will even make the Lions squad based on his six nations so far. Average in two games poor today. Definitely wont be captain. Need someone who at the very least understands the rules of the game.

Farrell has had the worst game of any potential 10 for the Lions. Sexton was about 5 times better than his yesterday.

*laws

People keep saying this. But refs have different interpretations so it it was good captaining to get poite to explain

It was terrible captaining, he hadn't a clue what was going on.

No it wasn't, I disagree. You communicate with the ref.

Sure but you dont ask him what you are meant to do. Laughable. Poor captain.

In your head maybe.

And everyone else outside England. I found it funny anyway.

SecretFly wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Loving the Italian tactics today, great to see that such things can come off.

they lost and conceded beyond the 4 try bonus point.. so not entirely.

containing that electric England side to less than 40 is a 'victory' for this Italian side

It worked for 40 mins, I thought it was brilliant.

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

Comparing Scotlands performance yesterday (against a team that nearly beat England) with Englands performance today - thats a big assumption

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:after that it's fair say Ireland are favourites for the 6N now.  they have the points difference, eng at home and certainly handled italy far better (though none of this off side line crap was going on).

I imagine Scotland are fancying the win too now.  

in the end though 6 tries was not too bad in a game like that.

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

gotta fancy Ireland at home in st patricks weekend.. I still have bad memories of the last time It built up to this and England got hammered.

poissonrouge wrote:

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

Comparing Scotlands performance yesterday (against a team that nearly beat England) with Englands performance today - thats a big assumption

True. Scotland have only conceded 5 tries in total so far. 3 v Ireland.

England will be gunning for the try BP though.

poissonrouge wrote:

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

Comparing Scotlands performance yesterday (against a team that nearly beat England) with Englands performance today - thats a big assumption

never works though does it. you can never truly know until the two teams meet. it's why it's such a great game.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:after that it's fair say Ireland are favourites for the 6N now.  they have the points difference, eng at home and certainly handled italy far better (though none of this off side line crap was going on).

I imagine Scotland are fancying the win too now.  

in the end though 6 tries was not too bad in a game like that.

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

I think England will have to play well just to beat Scotland so a BP would be a big result ... I'd say Ireland are still favourites, and Italy's tactics today have kept them in that position ...

Connor o Shea should be investigated for match fixing, Italy had an open door in defence vs Ireland so that Ireland got a massive score yet against England they decide to kill the game.

Farce.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:after that it's fair say Ireland are favourites for the 6N now.  they have the points difference, eng at home and certainly handled italy far better (though none of this off side line crap was going on).

I imagine Scotland are fancying the win too now.  

in the end though 6 tries was not too bad in a game like that.

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

gotta fancy Ireland at home in st patricks weekend.. I still have bad memories of the last time It built up to this and England got hammered.

True, but they had BOD then. And we had Hape...and Banahan

A good win for England in the end, but well played Italy for a cracking game.

The scoreline does not reflect the whole game. Italy put England under all sorts of pressure in the first half. But well played to England for coming out in the second half and really turning up and put Italy away.

Not really a good 50th cap for Owen Farrell with the boot. but then i guess every one as a off day now and then.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:after that it's fair say Ireland are favourites for the 6N now.  they have the points difference, eng at home and certainly handled italy far better (though none of this off side line crap was going on).

I imagine Scotland are fancying the win too now.  

in the end though 6 tries was not too bad in a game like that.

If Ireland beat Wales they will still probably have to beat England by at least 8 points in a low scoring game to win the tournament assuming England beat Scotland with a BP.

gotta fancy Ireland at home in st patricks weekend.. I still have bad memories of the last time It built up to this and England got hammered.

England had a terrible team back then though. They had Hape and Banahan in the centres FFS.

TightHEAD wrote:Connor o Shea should be investigated for match fixing, Italy had an open door in defence vs Ireland so that Ireland got a massive score yet against England they decide to kill the game.

Farce.

Bore off.

TightHEAD wrote:Connor o Shea should be investigated for match fixing, Italy had an open door in defence vs Ireland so that Ireland got a massive score yet against England they decide to kill the game.

Farce.

Do shut up.

GeordieFalcon wrote:England havnt played great against France, Wales and now embarrassed a little bit by Italy...

Surely that will have hurt and they MUST put in two big performances for the remainder of this 6n.

The performance today was dreadful for too often. Ignoring the ruck/tackle situation we gave away a hideous number of dumb penalties, missed penalty kicks to touch as well as kicks at goal, concert two soft tries through sloppiness.

We have to improve in two weeks time, or Scotland will win.

majesticimperialman wrote:A good win for England in the end, but well played Italy for a cracking game.

The scoreline does not reflect the whole game. Italy put England under all sorts of pressure in the first half. But well played to England for coming out in the second half and really turning up and put Italy away.

Not really a good 50th cap for Owen Farrell with the boot. but then i guess every one as a off day now and then.

Farrell wasnt just poor with the boot, he was poor all round, he made a lot of basic errors. Missing touch on penalties and making very poor decisions.

That was frustrating from an English point of view. It shouldn't have taken a half for our forwards to adapt to it. Saying that Poite's interpretation was driving me up the wall. Italy were mostly not competing at the rucks okay, but he seemed to take that they were competing at no rucks and that there was basically no offside line ever. The Italians entered the ruck on a number of occasions only to back off at which point Poite would start waving his arms in the air.

Criminal for Farrell to miss touch twice from penalties.

Thing is, when England worked the Italian tactic out (finally) they looked pretty good. The pick and goes were strong and there were some good carries. Mako seemed to improve the scrum. The backs looked pretty dangerous too, Mike Brown even managed a pass at one point!

TightHEAD wrote:Connor o Shea should be investigated for match fixing, Italy had an open door in defence vs Ireland so that Ireland got a massive score yet against England they decide to kill the game.

Farce.

Stfu

TightHEAD wrote:Connor o Shea should be investigated for match fixing, Italy had an open door in defence vs Ireland so that Ireland got a massive score yet against England they decide to kill the game.

Farce.

Think you should have a strong coffee and chill out, TH.

TightHEAD wrote:Connor o Shea should be investigated for match fixing, Italy had an open door in defence vs Ireland so that Ireland got a massive score yet against England they decide to kill the game.

Farce.

Who gave you a day release?!? We were the architects of a lot of our own problems today.

On a slightly more positive note for England. Thought Slade despite only being on the field for a few minutes showed some real touches of class, especially with that offload. Hopefully his presence in the squad will keep Faz and Ford honest and their performances high, definitely considering how badly Farrell especially played today, kicking from the tee and hand was poor and seemed to lose his composure, which in recent times has been unlike him.

Cumbrian wrote:That was frustrating from an English point of view. It shouldn't have taken a half for our forwards to adapt to it. Saying that Poite's interpretation was driving me up the wall. Italy were mostly not competing at the rucks okay, but he seemed to take that they were competing at no rucks and that there was basically no offside line ever. The Italians entered the ruck on a number of occasions only to back off at which point Poite would start waving his arms in the air.

Criminal for Farrell to miss touch twice from penalties.

Thing is, when England worked the Italian tactic out (finally) they looked pretty good. The pick and goes were strong and there were some good carries. Mako seemed to improve the scrum. The backs looked pretty dangerous too, Mike Brown even managed a pass at one point!

Agreed - Poite lost track of what was and what wasn't a ruck and made it a complete shambles ...

Great seeing innovative tactics. But in this case the main effect was to slow everything down. Every time the players were going in, then pausing to work out what was going on. Italy also never rushed to get to anything they didn't have to - the end result was that we seemed miss out on a lot of rugby that could have been played.

I felt that Haskell and Hartley were right to talk to the ref like they did and he also handled them very well. Very hard game to referee effectively though and it showed. The 'scrum no its a lineout' wasn't great either.

Italy were lucky too. That first try was very flukey - but Campangnero (sp?) did very well for his score.

As for England I see there are the usual shouts for May's head. All I can say is its hard to do anything if nobody (especially Brown) ever gives you the ball. It was a better type of game for Nowell as he forces himself onto games. May needs space to do his thing and any time the ball found a wing in space it was Daly - and he played well.

Sergio was clearly unhappy with Connor after the Ireland game, looked like he wanted to smash him into next week.

Now we know.

Eddie has it right

"well done Italy, but let's be serious it wasn't rugby"

Spot on.

Good god there's some whinging go on here.

First, well done Italy. They worked out a tactic and implemented. It wasn't illegal, within the rules and its England's problem that they took ages to deal with it.

Well done England, you won in the end and that's what counts.

As for the whingers on here, grow up.... This is rugby not football. Cope with it. Calling for Italy to be replaced dye to their rugby quality is one thing, but because of their tactics today is pathetic.

....and Eddie Jonrs saying today wasn't rugby, needs to be taught how to shut up and be gracious in victory.... What a muppet...

lostinwales wrote:

As for England I see there are the usual shouts for May's head. All I can say is its hard to do anything if nobody (especially Brown) ever gives you the ball. It was a better type of game for Nowell as he forces himself onto games. May needs space to do his thing and any time the ball found a wing in space it was Daly - and he played well.

Agree totally. May played well as far as I am concerned.

I mentioned above Brown needs dropped, Move Daly to 15 and Nowell and may on the wing. Watson on the bench covering wing / 15

It wasn't rugby.

People should ask for their money back, Italy are a sorry excuse for a rugby team.

No after game dinner, Italy should be driven stright to the airport and sent packing.