6N 2017: Scotland vs Wales, 25th Feb

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Scotland vs Wales


Date: Saturday 25th February 2017
Venue: BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick Off: 2:25pm
Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
TV Coverage: Live on BBC

Weather Update


Teams

Scotland

1. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors)
2. Faiser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors)
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse)
5. Johnny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
6. John Barclay (C) (Scarlets)
7. John Hardie (Edinburgh)
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors)

9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors)
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors)
11. Tim Visser (Harlequins)
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors)
13. Huw Jones (Stormers)
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)

Replacements

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh)
17 Allan Dell (Edinburgh)
18 Simon Berghan (Edinburgh)
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh)
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)
22 Duncan Weir (Edinburgh)
23 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors)


Wales

1 Rob Evans (Scarlets)
2 Ken Owens (Scarlets)
3 Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs)
4 Jake Ball (Scarlets)
5 Alun Wyn Jones (C) (Ospreys)
6 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues)
7 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
8 Ross Moriarty (Gloucester)

9 Rhys Webb (Ospreys)
10 Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
11 Liam Williams (Scarlets)
12 Scott Williams (Scarlets)
13 Jonathan Davies (Scarlets)
14 George North (Northampton)
15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

Replacements

16 Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
17 Nicky Smith (Ospreys)
18 Samson Lee (Scarlets)
19 Luke Charteris (Bath)
20 Taulupe Faletau (Dragons)
21 Gareth Davies (Scarlets)
22 Sam Davies (Ospreys)
23 Jamie Roberts (Harlequins)

InjuredYetAgain wrote:What's happened to Samson Lee? I thought when he first burst on the scene he was fantastic and a great scrummager

Hyped up before really doing anything. A trait creeping more and more into Rugby Union I fear.

I really can't fathom why some Welsh fans wouldn't pick Biggar - he's the one player I don't want to see on the Wales team sheet.

He is an absolute talisman of the Wales team and always plays well against Scotland. His kicking game causes us a lot of trouble and he physically drives the team on when they need it.

He says himself he's not a 20 linebreaks a game type of player but he brings so much to this Wales team.

George Carlin wrote:Good work Bsando. 

Tattie - Scott and Taylor in your starting line-up? What fresh hell is that? It's not a 'most broken XV' feller. 

Some big calls for Cotter to make:

1. Pyrgos or Price. I say Price with Henners to steady the ship later. 
2. Yes to Watson, Barclay and Wilson. But Hardie or CDP on the bench? I say CDP. 
3. Dingly Dell or a real prop? Almost certainly Dell. 
4. Purple beanie hat or traditional blue? Doesn't matter - nobody is going to laugh at him.

I have no idea why I have Taylor in there! I should be Dunbar!

Either Admin Boy has altered my post or I've got a subconscious man-crush on Taylor!!!

Things are looking up for the Scots with less injuries than they originally thought.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39030542

That is some great news, Wouldn't want to lose Barcs or Maitland.

George Carlin wrote:So Welsh fans are pretty confident then? 

The last time we lost to Scotland we also lost to Italy.

So yes, ours to lose.

I'm going home advantage for this game.

englishborn wrote:I'm going home advantage for this game.

Insightful

I think this one will be close how I see the key factors of the game:

Scrum Advantage Wales
Lineout Evens
Breakdown Evens
Scumhalf Evens
Strike Runners Advantage Scotland
Game management Advantage Wales

If Wales slow it down and get their big ball carriers on the ball the way France did they'll win this one comfortably.

If Scotland up the Tempo and execute set piece moves with the accuracy of the Ireland game and get their strike runners onto the ball at pace Scotland will win.

I don't think Wales played all that well against England, but their forwards were tremendous in particular Moriarty, Warburton and AWJ.

Can't call this one to be honest. Scotland can win it, are probably long overdue to win it but Wales seem to be the rock to our scissors...

Also, the loss of Laidlaw means we lose game management but the tempo that Price and Pyrgos brings mean we gain an advantage in attack, especially if Watson and Barclay play and can secure us quick ball.

Where do Wales see their strengths in this game, and what strength do you think Wales will be aware of from Scotland?

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really can't fathom why some Welsh fans wouldn't pick Biggar - he's the one player I don't want to see on the Wales team sheet.

He is an absolute talisman of the Wales team and always plays well against Scotland.  His kicking game causes us a lot of trouble and he physically drives the team on when they need it.

He says himself he's not a 20 linebreaks a game type of player but he brings so much to this Wales team.

I wouldn't pick Biggar because:
-good sides make him kick to their back 3's who then punish Wales on the counter-attack.As Scotland now have a back 3 as good as any we could be in difficulty often on Saturday;
-he is too slow over the first 5 metres(but see below);
-the most recent rugby stats i've seen suggest he is the Welsh player missing most tackles.

In fairness to Dan B he is not responsible for the overall pace and rhythm of the Welsh side as coached currently,the general decline of Welsh 3/4 play,nor the often slow ball presented to him by the Welsh pack and the 9(who more often than not takes the one-step before passing which allows the best international defences too much time).Perhaps this is the reason Dan B stands too deep.Another statistic doing the rounds concerns the 40+ times Wales have been in the 5m zone of their opposition and scored no tries.That does seem to suggest some failing on behalf of the 10.

Can't deny Biggar's commitment though the issue he had with chopsing to referees earlier in his carrer shows signs of returning.I'll be interested to see which of Russell and Biggar runs their 3/4 line best on Saturday,particularly the variety of passing.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really can't fathom why some Welsh fans wouldn't pick Biggar - he's the one player I don't want to see on the Wales team sheet.

He is an absolute talisman of the Wales team and always plays well against Scotland.  His kicking game causes us a lot of trouble and he physically drives the team on when they need it.

He says himself he's not a 20 linebreaks a game type of player but he brings so much to this Wales team.

One of the first names on the team sheet for me. Davies offers a nice contrast, but Biggar adds the drive and direction.

A big "yes please" to Sam Davies being selected ahead of Dan Biggar! Just the boost we need with out own talisman, Greg Laidlaw, out injured.

I'd be staggered if Biggar doesn't start against us.

Biggar has to start. Who else on the Wales side can pull off that Blue Steel / Who Farted look like young Daniel can?

exile jack wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really can't fathom why some Welsh fans wouldn't pick Biggar - he's the one player I don't want to see on the Wales team sheet.

He is an absolute talisman of the Wales team and always plays well against Scotland.  His kicking game causes us a lot of trouble and he physically drives the team on when they need it.

He says himself he's not a 20 linebreaks a game type of player but he brings so much to this Wales team.

I wouldn't pick Biggar because:
-good sides make him kick to their back 3's who then punish Wales on the counter-attack.As Scotland now have a back 3 as good as any we could be in difficulty often on Saturday;
-he is too slow over the first 5 metres(but see below);
-the most recent rugby stats i've seen suggest he is the Welsh player missing most tackles.

In fairness to Dan B he is not responsible for the overall pace and rhythm of the Welsh side as coached currently,the general decline of Welsh 3/4 play,nor the often slow ball presented to him by the Welsh pack and the 9(who more often than not takes the one-step before passing which allows the best international defences too much time).Perhaps this is the reason Dan B stands too deep.Another statistic doing the rounds concerns the 40+ times Wales have been in the 5m zone of their opposition and scored no tries.That does seem to suggest some failing on behalf of the 10.

Can't deny Biggar's commitment though the issue he had with chopsing to referees earlier in his carrer shows signs of returning.I'll be interested to see which of Russell and Biggar runs their 3/4 line best on Saturday,particularly the variety of passing.

They are totally different players. Russell is a far better distributor and runner but he makes bad decisions. Biggar is a much more limited player but I tend to think he consistently gets the best out of his skills and is a good asset to Wales. Russell's biggest problem is likely to be that he is not going to get much front foot ball. He's going to struggle as a result of that, especially with Laidlaw missing who would have really helped in managing the game.

Biggar might not be a mercurial talent, but If Wales can get success running through Scotland as they tried to do to England last week then he is good enough.

Personally I'd rather have Biggar. You can build a gameplan around someone like him. Russell strikes me as a luxury player.

George Carlin wrote:Biggar has to start. Who else on the Wales side can pull off that Blue Steel / Who Farted look like young Daniel can?

I thought all Welshmen were taught that? Doesn't the school curriculum in Wales solely consist of practising blue steel, applying hair gel and fake tan, learning the words to Bread of Heaven, watching footage of the Welsh team in the 1970s and being told that all Welsh rugby players are World Class?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Biggar has to start. Who else on the Wales side can pull off that Blue Steel / Who Farted look like young Daniel can?

I thought all Welshmen were taught that? Doesn't the school curriculum in Wales solely consist of practising blue steel, applying hair gel and fake tan, learning the words to Bread of Heaven, watching footage of the Welsh team in the 1970s and being told that all Welsh rugby players are World Class?

I thought that was in Aye?

Aye?

Dan Biggar is an absolute petulant child though! If you get in his face you get in his head and his game can go to pot!

I hope he starts on Saturday and I hope Scotland run through him on plenty occasions and if one of those occasions led to a try, then all good!

tigertattie wrote:Aye?

Dan Biggar is an absolute petulant child though! If you get in his face you get in his head and his game can go to pot!

I hope he starts on Saturday and I hope Scotland run through him on plenty occasions and if one of those occasions led to a try, then all good!

Fat fingers small keyboard

R!skysports wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Aye?

Dan Biggar is an absolute petulant child though! If you get in his face you get in his head and his game can go to pot!

I hope he starts on Saturday and I hope Scotland run through him on plenty occasions and if one of those occasions led to a try, then all good!

Fat fingers small keyboard

Thats what she said

People are being too nice in this thread - almost humble

Wales are Rubbish

Scotland are Gods

or

Wales are gods

Scotland are rubbish

*delete as appropriate and then discuss

R!skysports wrote:People are being too nice in this thread  - almost humble

Wales are Rubbish

Scotland are Gods

or

Wales are gods

Scotland are rubbish

*delete as appropriate and then discuss

Wales ARE Rubbish but will still beat Scotland.

R!skysports wrote:People are being too nice in this thread  - almost humble

Wales are Rubbish

Scotland are Gods

or

Wales are gods

Scotland are rubbish

*delete as appropriate and then discuss

How very dare you, sir!

Pistols at dawn!

To be honest, I was feeling hugely confident about this fixture following the Ireland match, but the game against France exposed some uncomfortable truths about this Scotland side. We are lightweight up front, and though we're very mobile in the forwards (especially in the front and back rows), if we get dragged into an armwrestle we lack the wherewithal (at the moment) to dictate the nature of the game to suit us.

That being said, if Scotland continue to play with this young group of players, they will be unrecognisable in a couple of seasons - just think how good Huw Jones, Fagersen, Brown and Jonny Gray could be when they all have 30-40 caps?

At the same time, if Scotland do play smart, run the Welsh around and actually keep hold of the ball, they are more dangerous in the backs than I can remember since my childhood.

Scotland will win.

Howleyball is a poor imitation of Gatlandball.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Scotland will win.

Howleyball is a poor imitation of Gatlandball.

We could play Netball and still beat your shower

munkian wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Scotland will win.

Howleyball is a poor imitation of Gatlandball.

We could play Netball and still beat your shower

But would be be Gatnetball? - If so we will win, as non contact and running repeatedly into a player all game would result in very few players actually being on the court

munkian wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Scotland will win.

Howleyball is a poor imitation of Gatlandball.

We could play Netball and still beat your shower

Doubt it. Edinburgh rugby excel at non-contact sports. We would clean up.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

munkian wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Scotland will win.

Howleyball is a poor imitation of Gatlandball.

We could play Netball and still beat your shower

Doubt it. Edinburgh rugby excel at non-contact sports. We would clean up.

You'd find a way to lose it in the last 5, I believe in you

munkian wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

munkian wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Scotland will win.

Howleyball is a poor imitation of Gatlandball.

We could play Netball and still beat your shower

Doubt it. Edinburgh rugby excel at non-contact sports. We would clean up.

You'd find a way to lose it in the last 5, I believe in you

You're forgetting that we now have Duncan "the finisher" Weir.

Sadly that nickname isn't rugby related, but relates to a famous incident at the Pizza Hut buffet....

I should stop mocking my own players. After all, you guys have Alex Cuthbert, who couldn't score on a Friday night in Cardiff, when all it takes is to close your eyes and walk 10 paces down the street with your tongue out.

IanBru wrote:

R!skysports wrote:People are being too nice in this thread  - almost humble

Wales are Rubbish

Scotland are Gods

or

Wales are gods

Scotland are rubbish

*delete as appropriate and then discuss

How very dare you, sir!

Pistols at dawn!

To be honest, I was feeling hugely confident about this fixture following the Ireland match, but the game against France exposed some uncomfortable truths about this Scotland side. We are lightweight up front, and though we're very mobile in the forwards (especially in the front and back rows), if we get dragged into an armwrestle we lack the wherewithal (at the moment) to dictate the nature of the game to suit us.

That being said, if Scotland continue to play with this young group of players, they will be unrecognisable in a couple of seasons - just think how good Huw Jones, Fagersen, Brown and Jonny Gray could be when they all have 30-40 caps?

At the same time, if Scotland do play smart, run the Welsh around and actually keep hold of the ball, they are more dangerous in the backs than I can remember since my childhood.

Firstly, Ickle Jonny is already on 30 caps
Huw Jones I'm starting to be a bit wary of. He was rather hyped up after the AIs and so far he's not done much in the 6Ns to back this up! He's not done anything wrong, but he's not been the gem everyone was saying he is
Fagerson I'm still holding out for. So far he's been man-shamed in every scrum but he is young and worth sticking with.

Still. This does not detract from my score prediction of 4 tries to 2 in Scotlands favour against the Gatlandball misfits

tigertattie wrote:

IanBru wrote:

R!skysports wrote:People are being too nice in this thread  - almost humble

Wales are Rubbish

Scotland are Gods

or

Wales are gods

Scotland are rubbish

*delete as appropriate and then discuss

How very dare you, sir!

Pistols at dawn!

To be honest, I was feeling hugely confident about this fixture following the Ireland match, but the game against France exposed some uncomfortable truths about this Scotland side. We are lightweight up front, and though we're very mobile in the forwards (especially in the front and back rows), if we get dragged into an armwrestle we lack the wherewithal (at the moment) to dictate the nature of the game to suit us.

That being said, if Scotland continue to play with this young group of players, they will be unrecognisable in a couple of seasons - just think how good Huw Jones, Fagersen, Brown and Jonny Gray could be when they all have 30-40 caps?

At the same time, if Scotland do play smart, run the Welsh around and actually keep hold of the ball, they are more dangerous in the backs than I can remember since my childhood.

Firstly, Ickle Jonny is already on 30 caps
Huw Jones I'm starting to be a bit wary of. He was rather hyped up after the AIs and so far he's not done much in the 6Ns to back this up! He's not done anything wrong, but he's not been the gem everyone was saying he is
Fagerson I'm still holding out for. So far he's been man-shamed in every scrum but he is young and worth sticking with.

Still. This does not detract from my score prediction of 4 tries to 2 in Scotlands favour against the Gatlandball misfits

We'll still be ahead on the scoreboard with Russell kicking

Russell couldn't kick the erse end of a sheep in a Cardiff fun fair but we'll still win

cascough wrote:

exile jack wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I really can't fathom why some Welsh fans wouldn't pick Biggar - he's the one player I don't want to see on the Wales team sheet.

He is an absolute talisman of the Wales team and always plays well against Scotland.  His kicking game causes us a lot of trouble and he physically drives the team on when they need it.

He says himself he's not a 20 linebreaks a game type of player but he brings so much to this Wales team.

I wouldn't pick Biggar because:
-good sides make him kick to their back 3's who then punish Wales on the counter-attack.As Scotland now have a back 3 as good as any we could be in difficulty often on Saturday;
-he is too slow over the first 5 metres(but see below);
-the most recent rugby stats i've seen suggest he is the Welsh player missing most tackles.

In fairness to Dan B he is not responsible for the overall pace and rhythm of the Welsh side as coached currently,the general decline of Welsh 3/4 play,nor the often slow ball presented to him by the Welsh pack and the 9(who more often than not takes the one-step before passing which allows the best international defences too much time).Perhaps this is the reason Dan B stands too deep.Another statistic doing the rounds concerns the 40+ times Wales have been in the 5m zone of their opposition and scored no tries.That does seem to suggest some failing on behalf of the 10.

Can't deny Biggar's commitment though the issue he had with chopsing to referees earlier in his carrer shows signs of returning.I'll be interested to see which of Russell and Biggar runs their 3/4 line best on Saturday,particularly the variety of passing.

They are totally different players. Russell is a far better distributor and runner but he makes bad decisions. Biggar is a much more limited player but I tend to think he consistently gets the best out of his skills and is a good asset to Wales. Russell's biggest problem is likely to be that he is not going to get much front foot ball. He's going to struggle as a result of that, especially with Laidlaw missing who would have really helped in managing the game.

Biggar might not be a mercurial talent, but If Wales can get success running through Scotland as they tried to do to England last week then he is good enough.

Personally I'd rather have Biggar. You can build a gameplan around someone like him. Russell strikes me as a luxury player.

The Welsh gameplan is an epic thread in its own right,but i'd never hold Dan B primarily responsible for it.

By luxury do you mean players like: Giteau,Foley,Carter,Cruden,Barrett,Sexton,Lopez,Fernandes,Jackson,Ford,Farrell? Glasgow's reinvigoration of the Pro12 owes a lot to the gameplan that Russell drives under Townsend's coaching direction.

Massive game, this one. Wales off the back of a poor Autumn stepped up big time against England and showed their class; Scotland on the other hand have shown steady improvements under Cotter and backed it up with an impressive first win and will be disappointed to have lost in Paris.

Laidlaw and Strauss injuries could be costly but, at Murrayfield, Scotland have a big chance to close in on a triple crown with Twickenham up next.

EnglishReign wrote:Massive game, this one. Wales off the back of a poor Autumn stepped up big time against England and showed their class; Scotland on the other hand have shown steady improvements under Cotter and backed it up with an impressive first win and will be disappointed to have lost in Paris.

Laidlaw and Strauss injuries could be costly but, at Murrayfield, Scotland have a big chance to close in on a triple crown with Twickenham up next.

True. I'd say Strauss will be a bigger loss than Laidlaw. Strauss has been Scotland's enforcer type player, giving them a lot of their belligerence.

Of course Laidlaw is the bigger loss as Captain and kicker. Scotland will need points not 'belligerence'

Some interesting battles going to be taking place this weekend. The one for me though is Hogg vs Halfpenny! So many Lions XV have had Hogg nailed on yet imagine a scenario on Saturday where Hogg is outplayed by Halfpenny, it could be the difference in him starting for the Lions and playing at 15 for the midweek games with a place on the bench for the actual tests, or not at all! Gatland himself has obviously been impressed with his attacking play but not so much his defence. Then there is Maitland vs North, Russell vs Biggar, Gray vs Jones, Jones vs Davies. It's a fascinating match in terms of Lions selections post 6N.

RDW_Scotland wrote:What are the bookies saying about this game? they are usually right...

(Apart from when they made Edinburgh favourites against Munster recently)

Checking odds checker, the best odds you can get on Wales are 10/11. Best odds on Scotland 121/100. So Wales very marginal favourites. A number of bookies have both at 10/11.

Halfpenny Hogg is a non starter and its hard to compare the two other than they start at FB. Hlafpenny was awesome in 2013 but now stops running before contact. his kicking remains metronomic and his defense is a solid as ever but he has no real pace. Hogg on the other hand is a game changer with an exceptional counter attacking ability.

WIth Farrell almost certain to start at 12 (amongst the English contingent anyway) i see no need for Half to be in the side for his kicking, QED he is a solid option on the bench but even then, with Sexton or Biggar likely to be the 10s Half may not even warm the bench.

If Scotland play like they did against Ireland, and Wales play like they did against England last week, then this will be a very close game.

I think Scotland will win the game. But it will be hard fought. 10/12 points in it.

majesticimperialman wrote:If Scotland play like they did against Ireland, and Wales play like they did against England last week, then this will be a very close game.

I think Scotland will win the game. But it will be hard fought. 10/12 points in it.

which no doubt is why your week 3 prediction has Scotland winning by 2 points

30-28 = 2

Gwlad wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:If Scotland play like they did against Ireland, and Wales play like they did against England last week, then this will be a very close game.

I think Scotland will win the game. But it will be hard fought. 10/12 points in it.

which no doubt is why your week 3 prediction has Scotland winning by 2 points

30-28 = 2

Yes i know. but thought about it and change my mind ok.

Try thinking your posts through before you press send. Do you consider 10-12 points a close game, or that score to be a hard fought victory for Scotland? It's not likely to be that hard if they beat us by 10-12 points, is it.

This will be a tough game at Murrayfield. Before the France match, I'd have had Scotland as favourites at home, but I think they've had too many injuries for their depth and Wales conversely have players returning. If they play how they did vs England they should have enough, but then, was some of that due to the passion they feel in that encounter?


Overall, a narrow win to Wales, but I'd love a draw

I would like Scotland to thoroughly hammer the sheepshaggers. 

If Wales start booting the ball away aimlessly, then a win is definitely possible. 

Hmm. That first sentence came out slightly more strongly than I intended. 

I'd already pressed 'post' though, so, you know, too late.

Amazing what a moderator can get away with!

It's not what you know but............

I won't report you to yourself IF you start an Ireland v France thread.

Sure isn't that what you mods are supposed to be doing anyway - we certainly pay you enough!!

GC has incriminating photos of all the Admins from the last Christmas party - he can basically say what he wants!

Yet my post gets deleted for calling some of the Irish posters oversensitive...