Warren Gatland, Lions Coach - Discussion Thread

by **LondonTiger** Wed 07 Dec 2016, 10:02 am

First topic message reminder :

https://www.606v2.com/t63946p1000-warren-gatland-announced-as-lions-coach

Seems Gat may be naming his coaches soon, expected to be:

Borthwick - Forwards
Farrell - Defence
Howley - Attack

by uncle_nigel Wed 07 Dec 2016, 2:52 pm

beshocked wrote:uncle nigel both Jones and Gatland can pleased with their coaching careers when they look back. It doesn't change that currently Gatland seems to be past his sell by date and Jones is currently the coach picking up the plaudits.

Now I am not saying that things won't change, of course they can.

I agree Gatland might be able to revitalise his coaching career but I don't think it's going to happen in NZ with the Lions.

We all know what happened last time a coach past his sell by date took the Lions to NZ.....

Though saying that Gatland is not as underwhelming as Howley.

I admire your optimism in Gatland but he needs to convince us he's still got what it takes.

Well that's an opinion. Do you think people might have said that about Jones some years ago, maybe around 2005 or 2008? I recall on wiki that he noted he didn't enjoy his time with Saracens.

So if you're open to change and Gatland likely having another really good period, why are you so objective?

SCW was out of the coaching arena though and just got it all wrong by also taking players past their sell by date.

Gatland isn't underwhelming at all, but Howley is the worst possible candidate. I think Gatty still wants to take some additional coaches.

I'm long convinced. He could win the world cup but it still wouldn't convince some people.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 07 Dec 2016, 2:56 pm

And if you'd said that, that's a different adn valid argument. You just didn't realise and looked foolish when you couldn't just hold your hands up.

by uncle_nigel Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:07 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And if you'd said that, that's a different adn valid argument. You just didn't realise and looked foolish when you couldn't just hold your hands up.

I never, at any point, dismissed Jones' past accolades and coaching stints. I didn't mention some of them and you're obsessing over a particular one that wasn't mentioned, one which I don't think is all that great despite what Nick Mallet thinks. You just entirely missed the point like you continue to do. Stop being like Stuart Barnes please.

by beshocked Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:08 pm

uncle nigel I am talking about now, not a few years ago.

I don't think Gatland will do well with the Lions. Happy to be proved wrong.

Having Howley in charge of attack won't help either.

by **RiscaGame** Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:14 pm

Griff wrote:I think it's a bit wrong to lay everything at Gatland's door here. Firstly, he didn't select himself for the Lions head coach position. We need to be blaming the Lions management/organisers for picking Gats, yet I've seen virtually no criticism of them on here. It's all been along the lines of 'The tour is fecked 'cos of Gats', when it should have been 'The tour is fecked because of those dim wits who picked Gats'.

Secondly, as mentioned above they did try to pick other assistant coaches but was turned down. It's only becoming 'jobs for the boys' because the other ones said no thanks. You can't blame Gats for poor back play if only Howley says 'yes'. Blame Towsend for saying no! At least Gats recognized that Townsend would have been a good choice. He went to the coach who we all wanted, so give him some credit there. It's not like Howley was the first choice. Can't blame Gats for Toonie giving him the bird, although I'm sure he'll get blamed for that regardless.

Did you see one of the journos comment on twitter that apparently Townsend turned the Lions down, because he was only offered a role as assistant to Howley? I can imagine that being true, as well.

https://twitter.com/sdm_robertson/status/806470627414704128

by uncle_nigel Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:14 pm

beshocked wrote:uncle nigel I am talking about now, not a few years ago.

I don't think Gatland will do well with the Lions. Happy to be proved wrong.

Having Howley in charge of attack won't help either.

I know. And I think your opinion of Gatland being past it, right now, is not accurate.

I guess that depends on what you think would be doing well. Winning one test match would probably mean they've done well such is the demands of this tour.

It certainly won't help, so we'll need X factor type backs on the pitch. I would certainly class Liam Williams as one of those and I'm sure there are plenty more from other nations.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:21 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:I think it's a bit wrong to lay everything at Gatland's door here. Firstly, he didn't select himself for the Lions head coach position. We need to be blaming the Lions management/organisers for picking Gats, yet I've seen virtually no criticism of them on here. It's all been along the lines of 'The tour is fecked 'cos of Gats', when it should have been 'The tour is fecked because of those dim wits who picked Gats'.

Secondly, as mentioned above they did try to pick other assistant coaches but was turned down. It's only becoming 'jobs for the boys' because the other ones said no thanks. You can't blame Gats for poor back play if only Howley says 'yes'. Blame Towsend for saying no! At least Gats recognized that Townsend would have been a good choice. He went to the coach who we all wanted, so give him some credit there. It's not like Howley was the first choice. Can't blame Gats for Toonie giving him the bird, although I'm sure he'll get blamed for that regardless.

Did you see one of the journos comment on twitter that apparently Townsend turned the Lions down, because he was only offered a role as assistant to Howley? I can imagine that being true, as well.

https://twitter.com/sdm_robertson/status/806470627414704128

Christ on a bike.

by BamBam Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:33 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:I think it's a bit wrong to lay everything at Gatland's door here. Firstly, he didn't select himself for the Lions head coach position. We need to be blaming the Lions management/organisers for picking Gats, yet I've seen virtually no criticism of them on here. It's all been along the lines of 'The tour is fecked 'cos of Gats', when it should have been 'The tour is fecked because of those dim wits who picked Gats'.

Secondly, as mentioned above they did try to pick other assistant coaches but was turned down. It's only becoming 'jobs for the boys' because the other ones said no thanks. You can't blame Gats for poor back play if only Howley says 'yes'. Blame Towsend for saying no! At least Gats recognized that Townsend would have been a good choice. He went to the coach who we all wanted, so give him some credit there. It's not like Howley was the first choice. Can't blame Gats for Toonie giving him the bird, although I'm sure he'll get blamed for that regardless.

Did you see one of the journos comment on twitter that apparently Townsend turned the Lions down, because he was only offered a role as assistant to Howley? I can imagine that being true, as well.

https://twitter.com/sdm_robertson/status/806470627414704128

Christ on a bike.

by **RDW** Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:35 pm

I've had to tidy up some bickering - bans will follow and I really don't want to trawl through the thread to see who started it and whose big brother could beat up everyone else's big brother

by **George Carlin** Wed 07 Dec 2016, 3:53 pm

BamBam wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:I think it's a bit wrong to lay everything at Gatland's door here. Firstly, he didn't select himself for the Lions head coach position. We need to be blaming the Lions management/organisers for picking Gats, yet I've seen virtually no criticism of them on here. It's all been along the lines of 'The tour is fecked 'cos of Gats', when it should have been 'The tour is fecked because of those dim wits who picked Gats'.

Secondly, as mentioned above they did try to pick other assistant coaches but was turned down. It's only becoming 'jobs for the boys' because the other ones said no thanks. You can't blame Gats for poor back play if only Howley says 'yes'. Blame Towsend for saying no! At least Gats recognized that Townsend would have been a good choice. He went to the coach who we all wanted, so give him some credit there. It's not like Howley was the first choice. Can't blame Gats for Toonie giving him the bird, although I'm sure he'll get blamed for that regardless.

Did you see one of the journos comment on twitter that apparently Townsend turned the Lions down, because he was only offered a role as assistant to Howley? I can imagine that being true, as well.

https://twitter.com/sdm_robertson/status/806470627414704128

Christ on a bike.

I don't buy that one for a second.

Fancy being my sous chef, Mr Ramsay?

Hey. What do you mean 'no'??

by uncle_nigel Wed 07 Dec 2016, 4:07 pm

George Carlin wrote:
BamBam wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:I think it's a bit wrong to lay everything at Gatland's door here. Firstly, he didn't select himself for the Lions head coach position. We need to be blaming the Lions management/organisers for picking Gats, yet I've seen virtually no criticism of them on here. It's all been along the lines of 'The tour is fecked 'cos of Gats', when it should have been 'The tour is fecked because of those dim wits who picked Gats'.

Secondly, as mentioned above they did try to pick other assistant coaches but was turned down. It's only becoming 'jobs for the boys' because the other ones said no thanks. You can't blame Gats for poor back play if only Howley says 'yes'. Blame Towsend for saying no! At least Gats recognized that Townsend would have been a good choice. He went to the coach who we all wanted, so give him some credit there. It's not like Howley was the first choice. Can't blame Gats for Toonie giving him the bird, although I'm sure he'll get blamed for that regardless.

Did you see one of the journos comment on twitter that apparently Townsend turned the Lions down, because he was only offered a role as assistant to Howley? I can imagine that being true, as well.

https://twitter.com/sdm_robertson/status/806470627414704128

Christ on a bike.

I don't buy that one for a second.

Fancy being my sous chef, Mr Ramsay?

Hey. What do you mean 'no'??

Me neither. It's unfathomable thinking that someone like Townsend would be understudy to Rob Howley.

Stranger things have happened. If Ben Ryan joins the staff then this rumour is likely to be true. I can't see what Gatty was thinking if this was his idea.

by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 07 Dec 2016, 4:34 pm

If it turns out to be true, I think it says so much about Gatland that I am taking "a Lions shirt" off my Christmas list. Loyalty is one thing, stupidity another and offering Townsend an assistants job to the worst coach in the home countries is just abject stupidity.

When he gets criticised for cronyism, he can say that he tried Townsend but was turned down. A little of the truth can go a long way.

by Guest Wed 07 Dec 2016, 5:22 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
Griff wrote:I think it's a bit wrong to lay everything at Gatland's door here. Firstly, he didn't select himself for the Lions head coach position. We need to be blaming the Lions management/organisers for picking Gats, yet I've seen virtually no criticism of them on here. It's all been along the lines of 'The tour is fecked 'cos of Gats', when it should have been 'The tour is fecked because of those dim wits who picked Gats'.

Secondly, as mentioned above they did try to pick other assistant coaches but was turned down. It's only becoming 'jobs for the boys' because the other ones said no thanks. You can't blame Gats for poor back play if only Howley says 'yes'. Blame Towsend for saying no! At least Gats recognized that Townsend would have been a good choice. He went to the coach who we all wanted, so give him some credit there. It's not like Howley was the first choice. Can't blame Gats for Toonie giving him the bird, although I'm sure he'll get blamed for that regardless.

Did you see one of the journos comment on twitter that apparently Townsend turned the Lions down, because he was only offered a role as assistant to Howley? I can imagine that being true, as well.

https://twitter.com/sdm_robertson/status/806470627414704128

If I read it from a reliable source then I'll believe it. Until then it sounds too far fetched to me. As far as I'm aware Howley wasn't in the frame at all until Townsend turned it down. Hence why he was asked to lead Wales in Gatland's absence.

by Guest Wed 07 Dec 2016, 5:27 pm

Just to add: I have it on very good authority that Borthwick has been selected only after Vern Cotter turned the role down too.

by **George Carlin** Wed 07 Dec 2016, 6:17 pm

Griff wrote:Just to add: I have it on very good authority that Borthwick has been selected only after Vern Cotter turned the role down too.

Tough choice that one.

McGeechan: "Hey Vern, would you like to go on a tour back home in the drizzle with a catastrophically unworkable match schedule and a head coach who will completely ignore you?"

Vern: "Can't I start my job in a beautiful Mediterranean town in the glorious azure sunshine and get paid 1.5 million Euro a year instead?"

McGeechan: "Er. Yes, you could do that instead. You wouldn't happen to have Borthwick's mobile number, would you?"

by Guest Wed 07 Dec 2016, 6:21 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Griff wrote:Just to add: I have it on very good authority that Borthwick has been selected only after Vern Cotter turned the role down too.
Tough choice that one.

McGeechan: "Hey Vern, would you like to go on a tour back home in the drizzle with a catastrophically unworkable match schedule and a head coach who will completely ignore you?"

Vern: "Can't I start my job in a beautiful Mediterranean town in the glorious azure sunshine and get paid 1.5 million Euro a year instead?"

McGeechan: "Er. Yes, you could do that instead. You wouldn't happen to have Borthwick's mobile number, would you?"

Yeah I made it up in all honesty. Like the other stuff on this thread Sad

by **RiscaGame** Wed 07 Dec 2016, 8:51 pm

It's pretty credible. Why would he write it otherwise? It's not as if he is trying to click bait or whatever.

Howley still has the Six Nations gig, so nothing much has changed there. It's perfectly plausible he was always in the frame, especially when Gatland has spoken about continuity today.

by Guest Wed 07 Dec 2016, 8:58 pm

RiscaGame wrote:It's pretty credible. Why would he write it otherwise? It's not as if he is trying to click bait or whatever.

Howley still has the Six Nations gig, so nothing much has changed there. It's perfectly plausible he was always in the frame, especially when Gatland has spoken about continuity today.

Who is this Rob Robertson? How do we know he's credible?! Never heard of him.

Also, you've been on these boards long enough Rev. Has everything you've read on here been credible? People post sh*t sometimes for no apparent reason. Twitter is no different. Let's hear it from Townsend.

by Guest Wed 07 Dec 2016, 9:03 pm

I can't find any news reports on it either. If this was true, or had some truth, it would be all over the news sites online. Nothing found when Googling. It makes me wonder if it's just one man's musings online?

by Pot Hale Wed 07 Dec 2016, 10:23 pm

So can we open the odds on who the additional one or two support staff that might be added to the coaching team. Rumours are that one or both might hail from down south.

Pat Lam
Stuart Lancaster
Conor O'Shea
Mark McCall
Eddie O'Sullivan

by Guest Wed 07 Dec 2016, 10:27 pm

Dave Rennie.

by exile jack Wed 07 Dec 2016, 10:37 pm

Rob Howley=Lions attack coach.Gatland is taking the urine,as are the WRU.

by The Great Aukster Wed 07 Dec 2016, 10:57 pm

The English-Welsh axis in the coaching team makes a lot of sense.

Gatland is obviously looking at a predominantly English pack hence Borthwick, (and a Hartley/Kruis/Itoje lineout). Farrell is experienced from the last time so will know all the English and Welsh players inside out, together with any Irish that make it. Howley might not be a great innovator but he again provide continuity and will have coached a lot of the squad. If confirmed Neil Jenkins will be another experienced voice in the selection room (Biggar and Halfpenny might just be counting on him). Ben Ryan has already coached a lot of the likely squad so isn't that left-field and he ticks the 'red-haired tourist with an Irish name' box without having the inconvenience of actually being Irish, so another inspired choice for Gatland egalitarianism.

Townsend being offered the role of assistant to Rob, makes perfect sense too. It's a big enough role to tick the Scottish inclusivity box but small enough to allow Gregor to turn it down without any personal guilt or damage to the brand. Realistically GT would be far better served coaching a full Scottish squad far away from NZ, rather than overseeing the Lions dirt trackers with Bennett, Seymour and Hogg.

This tour is already shaping up to have the hallmarks of a classic.

by rainbow-warrior Thu 08 Dec 2016, 5:26 am

Lots of sour grapes here I see.

1. Gatland will not take a lot of 'Has beens' down to Aotearoa like the Woody did in '05.
2. If the Welsh players do not show their class in the 6N they will not be taken. I doubt Warran has told the Welsh lads they will be on the plane like Ted did a few years ago.
3. Gatland will drop players and probably get more death threats from BOD die hard's still holding a grudge.
4. Gatland wants to win because it is his way to take over the AB's. With no Super rugby under his belt this is the alternate way of doing it.

5. Who will he pick in the first game? He son will be odds on to play in it Smile

by **George Carlin** Thu 08 Dec 2016, 5:32 am

Griff wrote:Dave Rennie.

Absolutely Griff - if they were smart they would choose someone like Rennie, Blackadder, Lam or someone else who knows the current NZ players and NZ rugby intimately.

by **RDW** Thu 08 Dec 2016, 7:33 am

Griff wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:It's pretty credible. Why would he write it otherwise? It's not as if he is trying to click bait or whatever.

Howley still has the Six Nations gig, so nothing much has changed there. It's perfectly plausible he was always in the frame, especially when Gatland has spoken about continuity today.

Who is this Rob Robertson? How do we know he's credible?! Never heard of him.

Also, you've been on these boards long enough Rev. Has everything you've read on here been credible? People post sh*t sometimes for no apparent reason. Twitter is no different. Let's hear it from Townsend.

He is actually a very good rugby journalist who usually gets a lot of inside info that is proven correct, especially regarding Scottish rugby.

The big BUT here is that he works for the Scottish Daily Mail...

by Guest Thu 08 Dec 2016, 7:58 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Griff wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:It's pretty credible. Why would he write it otherwise? It's not as if he is trying to click bait or whatever.

Howley still has the Six Nations gig, so nothing much has changed there. It's perfectly plausible he was always in the frame, especially when Gatland has spoken about continuity today.

Who is this Rob Robertson? How do we know he's credible?! Never heard of him.

Also, you've been on these boards long enough Rev. Has everything you've read on here been credible? People post sh*t sometimes for no apparent reason. Twitter is no different. Let's hear it from Townsend.

He is actually a very good rugby journalist who usually gets a lot of inside info that is proven correct, especially regarding Scottish rugby.

The big BUT here is that he works for the Scottish Daily Mail...

Exactly. The Daily Mail! Home of the extremist view. And his strap line on his Twitter account states "My views are my own", which suggests that his views on Twitter in no way reflect the views of the newspaper he works for.

I could be wrong of course. Wouldn't be he first time. But I want to see this in a proper media outlet before I bite.

by TJ Thu 08 Dec 2016, 8:50 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:Lots of sour grapes here I see.

None I have seen

1. Gatland will not take a lot of 'Has beens' down to Aotearoa like the Woody did in '05.

He did last time - took out of form and well past it players as well as injured players

2. If the Welsh players do not show their class in the 6N they will not be taken. I doubt Warran has told the Welsh lads they will be on the plane like Ted did a few years ago.

Its exactly what he did last time. Took the welsh players he was familiar with despite them not being the best in their positions

3. Gatland will drop players and probably get more death threats from BOD die hard's still holding a grudge.
4. Gatland wants to win because it is his way to take over the AB's. With no Super rugby under his belt this is the alternate way of doing it.

Aye - but showing poor selection and tactics meaning a 3 nil stuffing will rule him out for ever

by uncle_nigel Thu 08 Dec 2016, 8:53 am

TJ wrote:
He did last time - took out of form and well past it players as well as injured players

Such as.... ?

TJ wrote:Its exactly what he did last time. Took the welsh players he was familiar with despite them not being the best in their positions

Like who?

TJ wrote:Aye - but showing poor selection and tactics meaning a 3 nil stuffing will rule him out for ever

I doubt it, as it never ruled out Henry or Hansen. What could squeeze Gatland out however, is the abundance of great Kiwi coaches.

by rainbow-warrior Thu 08 Dec 2016, 8:56 am

TJ wrote:
rainbow-warrior wrote:Lots of sour grapes here I see.

None I have seen

1. Gatland will not take a lot of 'Has beens' down to Aotearoa like the Woody did in '05.

He did last time - took out of form and well past it players as well as injured players
2. If the Welsh players do not show their class in the 6N they will not be taken. I doubt Warran has told the Welsh lads they will be on the plane like Ted did a few years ago.
Its exactly what he did last time. Took the welsh players he was familiar with despite them not being the best in their positions
3. Gatland will drop players and probably get more death threats from BOD die hard's still holding a grudge.
4. Gatland wants to win because it is his way to take over the AB's. With no Super rugby under his belt this is the alternate way of doing it.

Aye - but showing poor selection and tactics meaning a 3 nil stuffing will rule him out for ever

Still with all your sour grapes he did win the series 4 years ago.

We all know the next reply hahahahahaha

by uncle_nigel Thu 08 Dec 2016, 8:58 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
We all know the next reply hahahahahaha

Probably one of them old records "That was the worst Aus team in a 1000 years"; "My gran could have beat that Aus team"; "Waaa, Gatland killed the Lions ethos, my favourite player didn't get selected".

I hope their granny's are still available by the way. They could take the place of Howley....

by TJ Thu 08 Dec 2016, 9:03 am

A pinch of salt with your chip?

by uncle_nigel Thu 08 Dec 2016, 9:34 am

TJ wrote:A pinch of salt with your chip?

Care to answer the questions?

by BamBam Thu 08 Dec 2016, 9:38 am

Out of form and past it player (or never had it barring Jonathan Davies crapping his load every time he made a tackle) - Mr Lydiate

by TJ Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:47 am

uncle_nigel wrote:
TJ wrote:A pinch of salt with your chip?

Care to answer the questions?

No - pointless debating with someone with a closed mind. We all know2 the answers to those questions - or at least those of us without blinkers.

by uncle_nigel Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:07 am

TJ wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
TJ wrote:A pinch of salt with your chip?

Care to answer the questions?

No - pointless debating with someone with a closed mind. We all know2 the answers to those questions - or at least those of us without blinkers.

You can't answer it either because you're too ignorant and/or you didn't even watch any games from the last lions tour; so you can keep the chips for your next whinge-fit.

by BamBam Thu 08 Dec 2016, 12:11 pm

Thoughts on Lydiate?

by lostinwales Thu 08 Dec 2016, 12:13 pm

BamBam wrote:Thoughts on Lydiate?

Won't be fit.

by BamBam Thu 08 Dec 2016, 12:18 pm

Haha .. I meant whether he fit the criteria Mikey was talking about above "Out of form and past it player selected last time because he's Welsh"

by uncle_nigel Thu 08 Dec 2016, 1:54 pm

Haha

. Yeah Lydiate was certainly one of the ones, not sure who should have toured ahead of him though? I doubt TJ is either as he didn't watch it. Lydiate did well from what I remember so was clearly not past it.

by BamBam Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:11 pm

Robshaw > Lydiate every day of the week and twice on Sundays, back then and now!

I've genuinely never understood why Jiffy makes a mess in his pants after every Lydiate tackle, he's made the man a career

by lostinwales Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:17 pm

BamBam wrote:Robshaw > Lydiate every day of the week and twice on Sundays, back then and now!

I've genuinely never understood why Jiffy makes a mess in his pants after every Lydiate tackle, he's made the man a career

At the time Kellybrows was also still captaining Scotland and a strong candidate for 6. Robshaw was suffering some wear and tear at the time but the fact that neither of them went (both captains of their respective countries) when Lydiate did was always somewhat confusing to me.

by Poorfour Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:19 pm

uncle_nigel wrote:Haha . Yeah Lydiate was certainly one of the ones, not sure who should have toured ahead of him though? I doubt TJ is either as he didn't watch it. Lydiate did well from what I remember so was clearly not past it.

Lydiate wasn't past it but as I recall he was coming back from several months off with a broken leg, and was visibly lacking in match fitness.

As for the series, well a series win in Australia is never easy, but the Lions were saved by Beale slipping on a loose bit of turf when taking the last kick of the first test. Only in the third test was the performance remotely convincing - and most of that came once the subs came on.

by Gooseberry Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:20 pm

uncle_nigel wrote:
TJ wrote:
He did last time - took out of form and well past it players as well as injured players

Such as.... ?

Brian ODriscoll?

Warren Gatland, Lions Coach - Discussion Thread - Page 2 1347041234

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:32 pm

Mike Philips was past it. For me he was by far the worst performing test Lion. Couldnt believe how lazy he was.

by wolfball Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:46 pm

Lions has me going back and forth the whole time.

On the one hand, you want to see an "objective" appraisal of your countries players as the best in Ireland/Britain, so its so addictive, coming up with teams, then complaining on when your country's player isn;t selected. On the other hand, the players who go are wrecked for a year afterwards. So, i am delighted for any irish player who gets to go, it means so much to them personally, but the national team with the fewest lions have a def advantage in the following years 6 nations.

For fans who will be arguably underrepresented (ireland?/scotland?) would you pick a Lions series win over your country winning a 6 Nations championship the following year? I know I wouldn't. Regardless it would be great to see a series win, as it would be a massive underdog story, but a win with 2 irish starters allows both that feelgood feeling and a mostly rested irish team the following year; best of all worlds Wink

by Gooseberry Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:48 pm

Hes not last GG, just that slow

by **RDW** Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:49 pm

wolfball wrote:Lions has me going back and forth the whole time.

On the one hand, you want to see an "objective" appraisal of your countries players as the best in Ireland/Britain, so its so addictive, coming up with teams, then complaining on when your country's player isn;t selected. On the other hand, the players who go are wrecked for a year afterwards. So, i am delighted for any irish player who gets to go, it means so much to them personally, but the national team with the fewest lions have a def advantage in the following years 6 nations.

For fans who will be arguably underrepresented (ireland?/scotland?) would you pick a Lions series win over your country winning a 6 Nations championship the following year? I know I wouldn't. Regardless it would be great to see a series win, as it would be a massive underdog story, but a win with 2 irish starters allows both that feelgood feeling and a mostly rested irish team the following year; best of all worlds

Given that we never get any players in the test team anyway, 6N all the way!

But then again there's absolutely zero chance of us winning the 6N so at least if the Lions win then we can be part of something! Very Happy

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:54 pm

I wouldnt say zero. Never say never. Scotland has a good first team but they would need a lot of luck get through each game with no injuries and play out of their skins each time. Scotland are probably more competitive now than they have ever been in the six nations.

Scotland put in a very good shift against England last year and they are due a win against them. Last win in Twickers was 1983 though. Shocker.

by **RDW** Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:14 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wouldnt say zero. Never say never. Scotland has a good first team but they would need a lot of luck get through each game with no injuries and play out of their skins each time. Scotland are probably more competitive now than they have ever been in the six nations.

Scotland put in a very good shift against England last year and they are due a win against them. Last win in Twickers was 1983 though. Shocker.

Starting against Ireland then away to France doesn't help. There's never really a good opening round of fixtures but that one is less-good than others....!

I think it is fair to say that the fans really, really, really want to beat Wales at home - it has been far too long and it would be a real monkey to get off our backs (like we did with France last year).

Realistically I think we'll lose to Ireland and France in close games, beat Wales ( Fingers Crossed

), 15+ point defeat to England at Twickers (as usual) then end with a comfortable win over Italy.

And to be fair I'd be relatively content with that because there is also a fair chance that the final game will be a wooden spoon shootout!

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