England vs Australia

by nathan Sun 27 Nov 2016, 6:05 pm

Billy out for 3-4 months.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 27 Nov 2016, 6:10 pm

Cruciate?

by nathan Sun 27 Nov 2016, 6:18 pm

Don't know yet, http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/bt-sport-deliver-devastating-billy-vunipola-injury-news/

by king_carlos Sun 27 Nov 2016, 6:56 pm

It's a harder team to call this week.

Billy out would mean Hughes starting if fit. If he isn't then Morgan will probably get a chance ahead of Beaumont given EJ thinks he's a lock.

What will happen with Daly is anyone's guess as well. Jones is usually a tough love sort of coach with discipline but he really rates Daly.

Clifford and Attwood could return on the bench as well given they played today. Jones was watching them as well.

1.Mako
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Kruis
6.Robshaw
7.Wood
8.Hughes/Morgan

9.Youngs
10.Ford

11.May
12.Farrell
13.Joseph
14.Roko/Yarde
15.Brown

16.George
17.Marler
18.Sinckler
19.Attwood
20.Clifford
21.Care
22.Slade/Te'o
23.Daly

I'd guess we will see something like that.

by king_carlos Sun 27 Nov 2016, 6:58 pm

Who plays 8 at the weekend is especially interesting with Billy out of the 6 Nations. Whoever starts has basically got a chance to get themselves 6 starts in a row if they perform well and stay fit.

by MrsP Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:10 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Cruciate?

Not cruciate - that is 9 months -sometimes they will quote 6-9 months but it takes 9 months before you could stand up to high level competition. More likely significant medial ligament injury

by Poorfour Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:19 pm

Clifford came through 78 minutes today but may have picked up a head knock at the end. Eddie was there but not sure if he is ready to take the risk.

by robbo277 Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:36 pm

I don't think Clifford will come from nowhere into the starting lineup. Yes he's been in the squad before, but he's not been involved all Autumn so if there is already squad cover I'm not sure if I can see it happening.

Will Daly be suspended? Is a suspension automatic, or does the citing commissioner have the option of saying that a red card was sufficient punishment?

You'd assume Hughes would come into the starting line up if for, if not Beaumont becomes an option. Roko will probably replace Daly if banned.

If Hughes is out, I'd also consider bringing Sinckler into the starting lineup for Cole, as we may be light on carriers without Vunipola or Hughes. Would put a lot of pressure on Mako as our only big carrier.

by nathan Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:38 pm

Billy tore cartilage and had an op this morning

by ChequeredJersey Sun 27 Nov 2016, 8:58 pm

So meniscus tear?

by Barney McGrew did it Sun 27 Nov 2016, 9:16 pm

Daly shouldn't play (too stoopid). And with roadrunner May on we only need the one winger.

by rozakthegoon Sun 27 Nov 2016, 9:29 pm

Just rewatched the match. Robshaw was ludicrously good. The slow burn success story of Eddie Jones I think.

And I thought lawes showed the kind of all court game we've been promised for years too.

Might we see robshaw 6, itoje 7 at 6 nations with launchburry and kruis 3nd row?! Lawes on bench?

by king_carlos Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:00 pm

Clifford has been added to the training squad for the week. Daly is out, replaced by Haley. Hughes is fit to be included. Morgan isn't in but Beaumont will train.

Forwards (19)

Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs (14)

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

by ChequeredJersey Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:05 pm

Good to see Haley involved

I guess we'll see

Brown
Yarde/Roko
JJ
Farrell
May
Ford
Youngs
Hughes
Wood
Robshaw
Lawes
Kruis
Cole
Hartley
Mako

Marler, George, Sink, Attwood, Harrison, Care, Goode, Teo

As we now need FB cover

But wouldn't be shocked to see Morgan start or Clifford bench

by doctor_grey Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:05 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:Good to see Haley involved

I guess we'll see

Brown
Yarde/Roko
JJ
Farrell
May
Ford
Youngs
Hughes
Wood
Robshaw
Lawes
Kruis
Cole
Hartley
Mako

Marler, George, Sink, Attwood, Harrison, Care, Goode, Teo

As we now need FB cover

But wouldn't be shocked to see Morgan start or Clifford bench

Morgan would be a very fat fullback.

by eirebilly Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:04 am

Massive shame for Billy V. For me he is the best 8 in World Rugby right now.

England are marching on very well indeed under Jones, that's 13 wins on the trot for them? Keep this up and they may threated NZ's record.

Quality team and on form, the best team in the world right now. England to beat the Aussies by 14.

by majesticimperialman Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:15 am

Did Brown pick up an injury in the attempted try?

by Geordie Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:31 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Daly shouldn't play (too stoopid). And with roadrunner May on we only need the one winger.

It was an elementary mistake! World Players of the year have still made those. I would have no trouble picking Daly...he'll have learnt very quickly from Saturday!

by Geordie Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:33 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:Good to see Haley involved

I guess we'll see

Brown
Yarde/Roko
JJ
Farrell
May
Ford
Youngs
Hughes
Wood
Robshaw
Lawes
Kruis
Cole
Hartley
Mako

Marler, George, Sink, Attwood, Harrison, Care, Goode, Teo

As we now need FB cover

But wouldn't be shocked to see Morgan start or Clifford bench

Isnt Haley the FB cover?

by Geordie Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:44 am

I think Harrison will get a spot in the squad. But it should not be as 8 cover. He's a 7/6

by lostinwales Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:16 am

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Daly shouldn't play (too stoopid). And with roadrunner May on we only need the one winger.

He isn't the only back 3 player to get sent off for something like this (See Stuart Hogg) And at least it wasn't a crucial game.

As long as he learns from it. As an old teacher of mine used to say ' the man who never made a mistake never made anything'

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:37 am

Sadly when you flog a player and don't give them a rest they are IMO more vulnerable to injuries. Now England don't have continuity at no 8 because they didn't test out a new option - hopefully England can handle this new challenge.

Injury in the RWC to Billy hurt England badly - will the same thing happen vs the Aussies? I sincerely hope not.

Let's start Hughes in the toughest game... let's not try him out at no 8 in other matches....

I am obviously a fan of Goode but I thought he was a bit disappointing vs Gloucester, didn't handle the high balls well, not normal for him. Did some nice things but if he wants to challenge Brown has to catch those high balls. Not sure I would want to see him on the bench vs Australia.

Morgan played well vs Saracens, really surprised me. If he can bring that form to England, then he could well reignite his international career, something I didn't think would be possible but injury to Billy gives him a real opportunity.

England should play players who are fully fit.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:44 am

Given Hughes was unavailable to England for Saturday I'm assuming you're calling for Morgan to start vs Aus then.

by Geordie Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:59 am

Beshocked Ben Morgan will start. And he's an experienced player who has played some blinding games for England.

Im sure his fitness will have been monitored and is up to the required level. I have no issues with him starting.

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:01 am

Morgan did play well vs Saracens and he is experienced, if he can bring his previous international form of 2014 then he could be a good replacement for Billy.

I think it would be unfair on Hughes to throw him into the starting line up at 8 vs the Aussies.

Wood seems to be revitalised under Jones and co.

Geordiefalcon I agree. Morgan is the likely replacement and if he's fully fit would not be against him starting.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:02 am

He's not in the squad is he?

by Geordie Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:04 am

He can be called up with as injury replacement cant he?

by Geordie Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:05 am

I would not be happy with Harrison starting or covering 8. He's too lightweight.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:08 am

I may have dreamt it but it's Hughes and Clifford in.

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:14 am

Geordiefalcon I agree completely. Harrison too lightweight.

As for wing spots I'd start Roko and May. Nice to see road runner utilise his pace well. Also great to see him run straight. His try saving tackle was very good.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:15 am

Pretty much doing as he's done for a while but glad you've caught up with the curve.

by lostinwales Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:16 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I may have dreamt it but it's Hughes and Clifford in.

King_Carlos post from Sunday 2200.

Beaumont, Hughes, Clifford in squad. Morgan isn't. (Daly isnt either)

Harrison wont be at 8 but might be on the bench. I would imagine it will be Hughes starting and Clifford on the bench although Beaumont might be in with a chance.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:16 am

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/vunipola-ruled-out-squad-reassemble/?sf43632985=1 wrote:33 players re-assembled at Pennyhill Park on Sunday with several returning into camp including fit-again Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks) and Tommy Taylor (Wasps).

Backs Alex Goode (Saracens), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby) and Marland Yarde (Harlequins) also come back to Pennyhill Park.

Suspended Joe Launchbury will train with the squad while Jack Clifford (Harlequins) will also join-up and be assessed by the England medical staff throughout the week following his Head Injury Assessment during his club game earlier this afternoon.

Forwards (19)
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints),Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs (14)
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

The comments used by England Rugby re Clifford seem to suggest he is unlikely to feature. Seen suggestions that Jones is interested in seeing Slade at FB - but as he has (to my knowledge) never played there would be a major risk.

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:21 am

no 7 & 1/2 May has not put in performances like that but it's good that he is now. I hope he puts in more like that.

lostinwales I think it's risky starting Hughes at no 8, I don't understand the England logic of starting a new player in the toughest match possible. Let's squander all the other opportunities....

I hope Hughes can step up I really do if picked.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:25 am

No that was his best but he's never had stinkers. He even looked good in teh full match rather than highlights.We've been through new players before; there's no real difference starting Hughes vs Aus than giving him a run at 8 vs Fiji first. Mkaes no real differencec.

by Geordie Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:29 am

So Daly is dropped? Or is he banned?
So same team with Roko replacing Daly and Morgan replacing Billy.

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:37 am

I watched the match live so I don't understand your snide comment.

There is a difference, one player can be the difference between winning and losing.

Losing Billy is a massive blow that might well have been avoided by giving him a rest instead of starting him again and again.

It's about familiarity and continuity. Hughes has not started in the England pack yet. It's also about being on the same wavelength.

England lost a lineout vs Argentina as soon as Kruis went off because the well oiled lineout had been broken by a replacement. I thought it was baffling to take off Kruis then, fortunately England weren't punished.

As for May I thought he was poor in the 2015 6 nations, even Lancaster agreed hence replacing him. Mediocre in the RWC and 2014 6 nations - 5/10.

What do you want me to say? I am acknowledging when I thought May played well.

Geordiefalcon that's what I would do.

I think the injury to Billy was avoidable but in the circumstances England should start Morgan for his experience and because he played well vs Saracens.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:41 am

I'm sure you did beshocked.

Like you previosuly said Webber with 20 odd caps and a few starts didn't have enough starts so even with one I don't think Hughes would have ticked that box?

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:54 am

You don't need to believe me. What would I have to gain from lying?

I wouldn't start Hughes vs Australia now, pretty sure I've made that obvious.

Webber was not in good form, he couldn't even supplant a journeyman like Batty.

5 starts, 11 as replacement with his last start in 2014 vs Samoa.

I am not claiming Hughes is experienced.

I think it would be unfair on Hughes to put so much pressure on him vs Australia.

Sometimes players let the occasion get to them. Not every player does but it happens.

Ideally I would start Billy but he's injured now.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:55 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:So Daly is dropped? Or is he banned?
So same team with Roko replacing Daly and Morgan replacing Billy.

Almost certain that Daly will be banned.

Morgan was not called up for training yesterday, so unlikely to feature.

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:57 am

Disappointing Morgan doesn't feature. Fingers crossed Hughes can deliver at 8 if picked. Huge shoes to fill.

by lostinwales Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:59 am

In EJ we trust...

by mid_gen Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:04 pm

I don't think anyone can argue that Hughes is the next in line form 8 we have available, and has been involved in the setup recently. Clifford a close second. I wouldn't have any issue with starting either of them against Aus. Preferable Hughes though as he brings the physicality we're a bit light on in the backrow with Hask and Billy out.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:06 pm

Just don't expect every player to play amazing all the time. If Highes starts great, same for Clifford.

Sorry if i doubt you beshocked and tbf it's easy to say that all the players played well as they did win and thats the only thing worth looking at!

by mid_gen Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:09 pm

I really don't get this "It's not fair on them" argument. They're top level professional sportsmen. I'm sure they relish the opportunity.

Or should we just play without a number 8 because Billy's injured Sad

by BamBam Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:12 pm

Jackson Wray could probably do a good job?

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:13 pm

Don't. His name has come up in the past from 1 poster.

by beshocked Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:20 pm

no 7 & 1/2 I don't expect every player to play amazing all the time. Players need to maintain good form though or risk being dropped.

It's easy to say that but no I don't think everyone played well - I don't think Mako or Cole played particularly well. I think Hartley was going through the motions again. Though he obviously helped steady the ship with his captaincy.

Farrell had a bit of an average game, kicking wasn't great.

mid gen it's putting unnecessary pressure. Yes they are professional sportsman but even they are prone to errors.

Elliot Daly is a professional sportsman yet a moment of incredibly stupidity - red card. He's not an experienced player.

It's about minimising risk of stupid errors.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:22 pm

You weren't impressed by Hartley? What about his breakdown work? Anything obvious strike you about that?

by majesticimperialman Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:31 pm

I thought Clifford was the next in kline for the 8 spot with hughes on the bench.

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