World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll

First topic message reminder :

The list of nominees sees two players from NZ, three from England, plus one from Ireland. What is surprising to me is that NZ do not have 5/6 players on the list of nominees. I think Heaslip is a good player but if an Irish player is on the list then should it be him? I get the feeling a fair few Irish would be saying no to Heaslip. Also, no idea how Owen Farrell keeps on making the list...

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/17996261/vote-win-world-rugby-player-year

Rugby Fan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Best 7s team in the world, who also happen to be one of the best in the world every single year win a trophy - not much there.

Fiji hadn't won the world sevens title for 10 years until Ryan took over. He got them to the title last year, and this year went one better by doing a world and Olympic double.

Wow 10 years, I didn't know that. I was pretty sure they had done despite NZ's dominance there.

Cyril wrote:I can't see beyond Barrett. He's been phenomenal, even if he can't kick. Like the rest of the NZ side he had a poor game on the weekend, but that one-off game doesn't take away from his stellar year.

Spent a lot of time watching Barrett play and I think he's the top candidate, with Coles not far behind.

I really like Dane Coles, not only he does the hooker stuff pretty with a good work rate well but his handling skills and the lines he run would be good enough for him to be able to play as a back.

whocares wrote:I really like Dane Coles, not only he does the hooker stuff pretty with a good work rate well but his handling skills and the lines he run would be good enough for him to be able to play as a back.

He's a great winger.

I definitely wouldn't vote for Barrett even if he is a product of Gaelic football in Westmeath/Meath. He grew up in Ireland.

Too many weaknesses to his game and he rarely plays a full 80. Coles is in with a shout IMO but it has to be Itoje for me.

Can someone explain that a fly half has to be a goal kicker,did that
make CLIFF MORGAN a poor 10.A lot of 10`s were great goalkicks
but average at best in there primary role.

emack2 wrote:Can someone explain that a fly half has to be a goal kicker,did that
make CLIFF MORGAN a poor 10.A lot of 10`s were great goalkicks
but average at best in there primary role.

Whats their primary role? You would expect the best player in the world to be a fairly well rounded player. Barrett is not. He is not just a bad goal kicker he is statistically the worst goal kicker in world rugby in 2016 and given that is a key role for an out half I think it would be ridiculous if he won.

Becoming the thing to not have your ten kick. Wales, England, Doncaster Knights all give the responsibility elsewhere.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Becoming the thing to not have your ten kick. Wales, England, Doncaster Knights all give the responsibility elsewhere.

Fine but it is his responsibility and he is the worst goal kicker for 2016 so how can he be the best player?

Have you watched him in the last year? He's been great. I suppose the opposite of Barrett on the list is Farrell who is there because of his kicking; fantastic 10 but not someone who is playing amazingly at 12.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Have you watched him in the last year? He's been great. I suppose the opposite of Barrett on the list is Farrell who is there because of his kicking; fantastic 10 but not someone who is playing amazingly at 12.

Yes most rugby championship games. He has been great but so have other players who dont have such glaring weaknesses.

I think Farrell has been pretty good at 12 as well

Really Cheq? Wouldnlt have put him in our top 5 players in the last year let alone the worlds in respect of his play at 12. The goalkicking nudges him up which was my point. In that respect it's what bringsBarrett down but his overall play is why I'd still pick him from that shortlist.

I don't agree with no 7 & 1/2 often but have to in regards to Farrell. I wouldn't say he's played particularly well at 12. I thought he was one of the weaker players in the 6 nations. Farrell's goal kicking is very good though.

Still wouldn't have Farrell on the list.

Don't really understand the inclusion of Heaslip at the expense of Aaron Smith, Bernard Foley, Julian Savea, CJ Stander, Stuart Hogg or Conor Murray.

Barrett has been perfect in all ways apart from goalkicking but my personal choice would be Coles. Nobody expected him to be a quality hooker with a step and a pass like a centre, but that's what he is.

Farrell has been so consistently good for so long that I think we've all become a bit blase about what he can do.

George Carlin wrote:Don't really understand the inclusion of Heaslip at the expense of Aaron Smith, Bernard Foley, Julian Savea, CJ Stander, Stuart Hogg or Conor Murray.

Undoubtedly, Stephen Jones's choice as an in-joke directed at his favourite rugby fans

ChequeredJersey wrote:Stephen Jones is Welsh...

Someone should remind him. He's a scary clown.

While I'm pleased for Heaslip on a personal level, I admit to being slightly surprised at his inclusion. Nevertheless he is an often underrated player so it's nice to see him getting some plaudits- even if I wouldn't have said that he was one of the best six test players on the planet right now.

My choice would be Dane Coles. You lose nothing at scrum, lineout and breakdown and you gain a lot in attack. He gets through a lot of work.

Voted Itoje my self. but would be surprised if he got it.

I would think if any one it would be Dane Coles. just a great all round player.

George Carlin wrote:Don't really understand the inclusion of Heaslip at the expense of Aaron Smith, Bernard Foley, Julian Savea, CJ Stander, Stuart Hogg or Conor Murray.

Barrett has been perfect in all ways apart from goalkicking but my personal choice would be Coles. Nobody expected him to be a quality hooker with a step and a pass like a centre, but that's what he is.

Farrell has been so consistently good for so long that I think we've all become a bit blase about what he can do.

Julian Savea George???

He was dropped from the Caines and lost his AB jersey this year.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Really Cheq? Wouldnlt have put him in our top 5 players in the last year let alone the worlds in respect of his play at 12. The goalkicking nudges him up which was my point. In that respect it's what bringsBarrett down but his overall play is why I'd still pick him from that shortlist.

Wouldn't have him on this shortlist but his play from 12 has definitely helped Ford at 10 and helped England play better which is of far greater confidence than how good he looks doing it.


I would have swapped Farrell, Heaslip and Vunipola for Stander, Isa and A Smith

And maybe would have had Kruis near the list too

I still can't get my head around Heaslip, completely bizarre selection.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I still can't get my head around Heaslip, completely bizarre selection.

I'm not a fan of Heaslip as most will know here, but I do think he lifted his game this year which was possibly down to the arrival of CJ on the scene. I also think the kind of player that CJ is has enabled Heaslip to shine a bit better.

Just for the record, CJ could not have been in consideration as he got a red card against SA.

I was about to say that on the basis of what I've seen (I'll admit to not watching all of Ireland's games, but have watched most), I'd have had Stander ahead of Heaslip. Does getting a red card rule you out of consideration?

Anyway, from that list, I'd go with Coles, though Vunipola, Itoje and Barrett aren't far behind.

Coles for me. Does he have any flaws?

Gun`s and Germ`s the key areas vary from time to time and era to era.
Jackie Kyle was a tactical genius,but his sides didn't play generally running
Rugby.Wales did in Morgan`s time and he considered the dropped goal
a waste of possession.
Charlie Hodgeson had a more complete game than Johnny Wilkinson
as did Andrew Merthens.
Carlos Spencer was one of the most talented players ever couldn`t
kick better than 50% but scored over a 100 first class tries.
Barrett hasn't the game of Dan Carter in his prime who has but DC
didn't use the dropped goal much.
Mike Gibson was the best NH 10 of his era perhaps best in the World
he could kick but was`nt a great at it.Barry John was lauded as a
great but in Wales Dai Watkins and Phil Bennett were considered much
better.
Owen Farrell and Dan Biggar are goal kickers but wouldn't consider either
a great 10 if your looking for perfection.

Both more than goal kickers.

Yes they are that BUT it seem`s someone is about the perfect 10 and
frankly no one has been named on the list above who is that.
I think Owen Farrell is the man most likely to win this as he was THE
most important player in England`s rise to number 2 in the world.

Can't agree with that either. You're still stuck on your 3 points malarkey.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't agree with that either. You're still stuck on your 3 points malarky.

Maybe emack is commenting on the points coming from conversions that Farrell kicked in Aus? After all, they scored a healthy number of tries out there.

He's probably not though

I enjoyed your optimism on such a day.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I enjoyed your optimism on such a day.

Aye. I'll try my best. It's cold and sleeting here in York which pretty much mirrors how I feel about the world.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Coles for me.  Does he have any flaws?

Unlike the backs he doesn't have good hair.

emack2 wrote:Yes they are that BUT it seem`s someone is about the perfect 10 and
frankly no one has been named on the list above who is that.
I think Owen Farrell is the man most likely to win this as he was THE
most important player in England`s rise to number 2 in the world.

Barrett doesnt need to be the perfect 10 to win player of the year but the fact that he is actually the worst goalkicker in the world rules him out for me. Sorry but it is too big a weakness to be considered best player in the world. It would make a mockery of the award IMO.

Farrell isnt even in the top three best outhalves in the world in my opinion so not sure why he made the list.

Barrett, Sexton and Foley are all better players IMO. Sexton only just and is on the way out now. Farrell or Biggar to start for the Lions.

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I still can't get my head around Heaslip, completely bizarre selection.

I'm not a fan of Heaslip as most will know here, but I do think he lifted his game  this year which was possibly down to the arrival of CJ on the scene. I also think the kind of player that CJ is has enabled Heaslip to shine a bit better.

Just for the record, CJ could not have been in consideration as he got a red card against SA.

You only think he has lifted his game because Ireland are winning and therefore you have no one to blame for us losing. Heaslip has been incredibly consistent over the last 10 years.

Farrell isnt even in the top three best outhalves in the world in my opinion so not sure why he made the list.

Barrett, Sexton and Foley are all better players IMO. Maybe even Nicolas Sanchez. Sexton only just and is on the way out now. Farrell or Biggar to start for the Lions.

The V2 poll has Barrett in the lead, followed by Coles who is out in front of Itoje by just a whisker. That's probably the way I see it too, unless Read was on the list then he'd probably edge out Itoje.

Trump has just banned this poll forthwith, as there are far too many foreigners on it.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Both shortlists were selected by independent panels featuring former internationals and members of the media, who deliberated on every major test from the Six Nations through to those on November 5.

The men’s panel is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999-winning captain John Eales and comprises former players Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Chris Paterson, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace as well as journalists Pierre Galy (AFP), Stephen Jones (The Sunday Times), Jim Kayes (TV3) and Sergio Stuart (Ole, Argentina).

So basically the sky sports panel.

No bias there then.

I suspect if there was any bias it would be towards the rugby they show every week .....Pro12

mikey_dragon wrote:The V2 poll has Barrett in the lead, followed by Coles who is out in front of Itoje by just a whisker. That's probably the way I see it too, unless Read was on the list then he'd probably edge out Itoje.

I think that if the past 24 hours have taught us anything, it's that pollsters have been put on the planet to make clairvoyants look good.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Both shortlists were selected by independent panels featuring former internationals and members of the media, who deliberated on every major test from the Six Nations through to those on November 5.

The men’s panel is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999-winning captain John Eales and comprises former players Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Chris Paterson, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace as well as journalists Pierre Galy (AFP), Stephen Jones (The Sunday Times), Jim Kayes (TV3) and Sergio Stuart (Ole, Argentina).

So basically the sky sports panel.

No bias there then.

I suspect if there was any bias it would be towards the rugby they show every week .....Pro12

That's only because BT stopped them from getting their hands on all of AP They're generous to the natives on the fringes when they got nothing else to buy, but their heart is Three Lions full

George Carlin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The V2 poll has Barrett in the lead, followed by Coles who is out in front of Itoje by just a whisker. That's probably the way I see it too, unless Read was on the list then he'd probably edge out Itoje.

I think that if the past 24 hours have taught us anything, it's that pollsters have been put on the planet to make clairvoyants look good.

I've carried out a quick phone poll of 5,000 people, mixed sex, urban and rural dwellers, high income to low income..... and the result has come back quickly that you're wrong on that assumption.

George Carlin I actually thought that Farrell had a mediocre 6 nations aside from goalkicking.

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/29955.php#RuYvOaIyJW8euvs4.97

Farrell unsurprisingly did not make the short list for 6 nations player of the year.


Glad I voted Billy because he's underrated on these boards evidently. 3 man of the matches in the 6 nations and he's joint lowest in this vote....

His influence for England in the last two seasons cannot be underestimated.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I still can't get my head around Heaslip, completely bizarre selection.

I'm not a fan of Heaslip as most will know here, but I do think he lifted his game  this year which was possibly down to the arrival of CJ on the scene. I also think the kind of player that CJ is has enabled Heaslip to shine a bit better.

Just for the record, CJ could not have been in consideration as he got a red card against SA.

You only think he has lifted his game because Ireland are winning and therefore you have no one to blame for us losing. Heaslip has been incredibly consistent over the last 10 years.

Consistent, but consistently not that good on the international scene. He was great in 2012 but this is 2016 and he's not had a great year.

You could put shouts out for Haskell, Stander, Kruis, Robshaw, Hogg....at the very least.

I wouldn't say he's underrated, there's just a few certain ABs in the list that are better (along with some more ABs not on the list). I think Billy is definitely one the top No.8's in world rugby, up there with Read and Faletau .

It's a poor shortlist, let's face it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's a poor shortlist, let's face it.

Yea, I agree.

I'd have Heaslip as the 6th best 8 in the NH at the very best, total joke. Farrell also is a very lucky boy although he has been vital to England's rise.

The other 4 however are superb candidates.