Warren Gatland announced as Lions coach

First topic message reminder :

Apparently, according to Ian McGeechan anyway Gatland has been given the job again.

Cyril wrote:Ireland's fantastic win is just going to make NZ angry.

Gats' Lions task just got a whole lot harder...

Particularly as we all know the wrong Kiwi has the job.

Pick ireland with a few English impact on the bench. Job done.

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:Ireland's fantastic win is just going to make NZ angry.

Gats' Lions task just got a whole lot harder...

Particularly as we all know the wrong Kiwi has the job.

Pick ireland with a few English impact on the bench. Job done.

Nah, did you not see Edinburgh vs Ulster? It's mainly Scots in the squad now.

Griff wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Guess this is looking less like a good idea now - well done Ireland

Why? Schmidt ruled himself out didn't he? They have to select someone as head coach. For what it's worth I wouldn't have picked Gats either, but the Ireland v NZ result doesn't change Schmidt not being available in the first place.

The style of play
A plan b
Attacking intent

To mane a few

Riskysports wrote:

Griff wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Guess this is looking less like a good idea now - well done Ireland

Why? Schmidt ruled himself out didn't he? They have to select someone as head coach. For what it's worth I wouldn't have picked Gats either, but the Ireland v NZ result doesn't change Schmidt not being available in the first place.

The style of play
A plan b
Attacking intent

To mane a few

I agree. But I'll say again: Joe wasn't available.

Griff wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

Griff wrote:

Riskysports wrote:Guess this is looking less like a good idea now - well done Ireland

Why? Schmidt ruled himself out didn't he? They have to select someone as head coach. For what it's worth I wouldn't have picked Gats either, but the Ireland v NZ result doesn't change Schmidt not being available in the first place.

The style of play
A plan b
Attacking intent

To mane a few

I agree. But I'll say again: Joe wasn't available.

Well Gatland isn't even coaching right now, but this guy comes back after months looking for more excuses to slag him off. Strange behaviour. Is the fact that his team hasn't beat Wales in the Gatland era the reason for the constant bitterness?

Been around lots

An this is not about wales team (not sure why u always go there) or the country. This is about my opinion that I do not think garland has the tactics to beat New Zealand. I stand by that

I know wales are better than Scotland. I can admit that quite easily

I meant come back to this thread, you brought it up did you not? Like I said, strange behaviour that reeks of the usual bitterness from certain factions towards Gatland. Try waking up one morning without this hatred and you might feel a lot better.

Not hatred. Just resigned to a poor tour

Riskysports wrote:Not hatred. Just resigned to a poor tour

Well distance yourself from it then. You've got a knack for posting unnecessary yet ongoing disparaging comments against Gatland and Wales, so don't be surprised if you're called up on it.

Where against wales? Gatlands ability to change is style

Not against wales though?

And why should I distance myself from the lions

I LoVe the lions and have been on the tours and want us to do well

In your posting history like I said. And the style has changed to an extent so you must be a bit ignorant, or just don't watch the team play - I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to watch...

I'm happy if you are a big supporter of the Lions as they seem to also get a lot of unnecessary flak, but your comments suggest everything but love for the Lions.

Come on mikey dragon,I don't think it's wrong to slag off Gatland. Well said riskysports.

I've been saying it since the RWC that Gatland isn't good enough for Wales or the Lions.

Others are now saying the thing I was saying almost a year ago.

Of course you'll write it off as being anti Welsh, nope, a strong Wales is good for rugby.

I like a lot of Welsh players like North,Faletau,Warburton and Roberts but Gatland and also Howley aren't good enough.

It's obvious Schmidt would have been a better option than Gatland, even before the win over NZ.

I say Jones should have taken the role.  Joe is too busy and I think he made that clear anyway.  

I'd personally like the Lions to quietly say they've had enough now.  New century, new ambitions, new horizons.  Time for each rugby Nation to stand fully on its own two feet.  There is no honour in the 'best' of four Nations joining together to beat the schidt out of another single Nation.  There is no honour, but there is plenty egg on face when that little single Nation (SA, NZ or Australia) sends the Great Lions packing with their tails between their legs.

With the nature of the Lions job - limited time with the players, bringing in players from different countries etc. I think Eddie Jones would be more suited than Joe. I think Eddie is more likely to have an instant impact; whereas to really reap the benefits of Joe, he has to be working with the players for some time for them really to put his systems into place.
I don't think the group of players that beat the All Blacks is by any standard the best we have had, but as a unit they were more than the sum of their parts. That has taken time - something the lions don't have.

The lions job is more suited to a pyscho-motivator type than a nuts and bolts coach.

I heard Gatland slipped in the shower and cracked his head. Wish him well.

Seemingly Joe said he wasn't interested in going to assist Gatland as he wants to develop Ireland squad more. He would like if Farrell went on it though to keep an eye on the Ireland players that make it!

I don't know if anyone was watching 'What we did last summer' last night on tv (Ireland tour to SA documentary), but I got the impression that Joe is very determined to have plenty of depth for the next world cup so I think over the next year or so, we might see a lot of rotation in the Ireland sides.

Much respect to Joe for his quick reaction to the published possibilities that he might be invited to join the Lions. Much respect that he's reasserted his notion that his job and commitment is to develop Ireland. He's hoping to give Gatland some selection headaches of course, in that he hopes he can put as many Irish players on the plane to New Zealand as possible; but then his role is to have a seriously good look at what if left on tour to the USA and Japan.

Mikey You need to learn to accept that many of us have reservations about Gatland coaching abilites. It is possible to critise someone without showing hatred or bias.

Answer me this. Most folk would accept that Wales are a better team than Scotland but Scotland have more victories against SH sides in the last ten years than Wales. Why is this? My answer would be its that the tactics Gatland likes his team to play and the players he selects is the answer.

Quality of teams put out and weather conditions also played a factor.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quality of teams put out and weather conditions also played a factor.

Or maybe, despite himself, Gatland can't stop the Welsh boys from putting everything into 6N (and those sides) emotionally and then just not having the same intent against SH opposition.
Maybe he's always over-sold 6N to them...or they've oversold it to him.

You can say that and the run of results is unflattering to say the least but I've watched the vast majority if not all and there were some which they should have won, and could easily if not for some misfortune. Suggests to me both the players, coaches and tactics aren't exactly lacking.

Well of course and my view is that it's just fate having a laugh. Wales have been good enough to win on a number of occasions and simply didn't - fate. Chaos theory.

But when a team has you by the short and curlies (as it were) psychologically, they do put in the extra effort to keep you there. So in as much as Wales fight against fate to actually win one of these repeat encounters, the Aussie mentality is in the mix too - and they are dead cert on going all out to keep that mental pressure on Gatland and his teams. Wales is desperate. Australia is determined to keep the record.

TJ wrote:Mikey   You need to learn to accept that many of us have reservations about Gatland coaching abilites.  It is possible to critise someone without showing hatred or bias.

Answer me this.  Most folk would accept that Wales are a better team than Scotland but Scotland have more victories against SH sides in the last ten years than Wales.  Why is this?  My answer would be its that the tactics Gatland likes his team to play and the players he selects is the answer.

When have your wins come? In the autumn friendlies mainly? There's your answer, as 'Fly alluded to. Wales take the proper tournaments seriously (6N) but don't put too much into the friendlies, like Scotland do perhaps

Similar to England tomorrow then fly.

Griff wrote:

When have your wins come? In the autumn friendlies mainly? There's your answer, as 'Fly alluded to. Wales take the proper tournaments seriously (6N) but don't put too much into the friendlies, like Scotland do perhaps

Nice twist you put on my logic there, Griff

Sin é wrote:Seemingly Joe said he wasn't interested in going to assist Gatland as he wants to develop Ireland squad more. He would like if Farrell went on it though to keep an eye on the Ireland players that make it!

I don't know if anyone was watching 'What we did last summer' last night on tv (Ireland tour to SA documentary), but I got the impression that Joe is very determined to have plenty of depth for the next world cup so I think over the next year or so, we might see a lot of rotation in the Ireland sides.

Joe has a clause in his contract that prevents him going on Lions tours I heard.

Sin there actually has been a lot of rotation in Joe squads all along. He never picks injured or off form players unless they are absolutely key. He doesnt get much recognition for this as fans are often not happy with his selections.

TJ wrote:Mikey   You need to learn to accept that many of us have reservations about Gatland coaching abilites.  It is possible to critise someone without showing hatred or bias.

Answer me this.  Most folk would accept that Wales are a better team than Scotland but Scotland have more victories against SH sides in the last ten years than Wales.  Why is this?  My answer would be its that the tactics Gatland likes his team to play and the players he selects is the answer.

but also Scotland tends to face weaker versions of the SH sides as in their win v Australia in Newcastle Australia a few years back.

GunsGerms wrote:

TJ wrote:Mikey   You need to learn to accept that many of us have reservations about Gatland coaching abilites.  It is possible to critise someone without showing hatred or bias.

Answer me this.  Most folk would accept that Wales are a better team than Scotland but Scotland have more victories against SH sides in the last ten years than Wales.  Why is this?  My answer would be its that the tactics Gatland likes his team to play and the players he selects is the answer.

but also Scotland tends to face weaker versions of the SH sides as in their win v Australia in Newcastle Australia a few years back.

We do love devaluing each other's victories. In the case of the Scotland wins it might be better to say that often the SH teams they have faced have not rated Scotland as much as they should have...

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

TJ wrote:Mikey   You need to learn to accept that many of us have reservations about Gatland coaching abilites.  It is possible to critise someone without showing hatred or bias.

Answer me this.  Most folk would accept that Wales are a better team than Scotland but Scotland have more victories against SH sides in the last ten years than Wales.  Why is this?  My answer would be its that the tactics Gatland likes his team to play and the players he selects is the answer.

but also Scotland tends to face weaker versions of the SH sides as in their win v Australia in Newcastle Australia a few years back.

We do love devaluing each other's victories. In the case of the Scotland wins it might be better to say that often the SH teams they have faced have not rated Scotland as much as they should have...

Its not like that. Im not trying to devalue Scotland's achievements. At the time I do remember thinking Australia put out a weak side. However, looking back it isnt that weak at all really:

Morahan, Tomane, A. Faingaa, Harris, Ioane, Barnes, Genia, Slipper, Moore, Palmer, Timani, Sharpe, Dennis, Pocock, Higginbotham.

Trust me I support England, Wales and Scotland in all their games v SH teams and have a soft spot for all three in general. 25 years of attending 6N games will do that to you.

GunsGerms wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

TJ wrote:Mikey   You need to learn to accept that many of us have reservations about Gatland coaching abilites.  It is possible to critise someone without showing hatred or bias.

Answer me this.  Most folk would accept that Wales are a better team than Scotland but Scotland have more victories against SH sides in the last ten years than Wales.  Why is this?  My answer would be its that the tactics Gatland likes his team to play and the players he selects is the answer.

but also Scotland tends to face weaker versions of the SH sides as in their win v Australia in Newcastle Australia a few years back.

We do love devaluing each other's victories. In the case of the Scotland wins it might be better to say that often the SH teams they have faced have not rated Scotland as much as they should have...

Its not like that. Im not trying to devalue Scotland's achievements. At the time I do remember thinking Australia put out a weak side. However, looking back it isnt that weak at all really:

Morahan, Tomane, A. Faingaa, Harris, Ioane, Barnes, Genia, Slipper, Moore, Palmer, Timani, Sharpe, Dennis, Pocock, Higginbotham.

Trust me I support England, Wales and Scotland in all their games v SH teams and have a soft spot for all three in general. 25 years of attending 6N games will do that to you.

I do genuinely think that Scotland have tended to catch teams when they haven't been at their best (selection, injuries, end of tour-itis) and sometimes in extreme conditions. But you can only beat the team that is in front of you.

Very true, but you do have to consider all factors, look at the games, tactics, nuances before simply looking at a score and then making a judgment.

A better way is to respect the records and move on. Everyone on the planet could pin-prick victories and of course there is always a myriad of excuses that can be hoisted above and beyond teamsheets - ie, ref interpretations, ref mistakes, TMO oversights etc etc.

Let's just respect wins equally, and stop dragging for too many excuses to prove once more that 'My Dad is bigger than your dad'

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

When have your wins come? In the autumn friendlies mainly? There's your answer, as 'Fly alluded to. Wales take the proper tournaments seriously (6N) but don't put too much into the friendlies, like Scotland do perhaps

Nice twist you put on my logic there, Griff

Thanks! I think you have a point though. The 6N is our 'thing', perhaps. It's what our rugby history is based on, our folklore and legend. And you know we love our history! It's where the stories originated that have been passed down through the geneeations, the away trips, the glory years, Gareth, Gerald, Barry John. That was all 6N. My dad and my friends dads don't regale us with stories about Wales v Aus in 1978. No, it's about the Wales trip to Scotland where they all got p*ssed on the train up and someone got arrested, etc. Or was that the film 'Grand Slam'?!

But anyway, I think you've struck onto something there. I think we do give it more Oomph in the 6N. It's the tournament that gets out pulses racing. And other nations perhaps don't go in for it as much. And that's fine. We seem to put less in come the autumn series. I joke that they're friendlies, but perhaps some nations just approach them differently. Food for thought? Or a good excuse to cover up our poor performances?

Sneaky win against a SH team every other year then Poopie in the 6 nations. Its a funny old world.

Griff wrote:But anyway, I think you've struck onto something there. I think we do give it more Oomph in the 6N. It's the tournament that gets out pulses racing. And other nations perhaps don't go in for it as much. And that's fine. We seem to put less in come the autumn series. I joke that they're friendlies, but perhaps some nations just approach them differently. Food for thought? Or a good excuse to cover up our poor performances?

Either way, if it's true it's a barrier to Wales ever delivering on their potential. If the focus is always on the traditional rivals, then they're unlikely ever to develop a squad capable of taking on all comers.

Which, as an England supporter, I actually think I'd like to see. It's sad to see players of such talent breaking against the brick wall of a SH victory again and again, and a broader focus might also make it a bit easier for England to win the 6N...

British and Irish Lions coach Warren Gatland has received another blow ahead of the 2017 New Zealand tour.

According to The Times, Glasgow Warriors head coach Gregor Townsend has turned down a role on the British and Irish Lions coaching staff for their tour to New Zealand.

Townsend, 43, who is taking over as Scotland head coach at the end of the season, will instead focus on leading his team on their tour to Australia.

The former Scotland international pivot is the second international coach to decline a position on Gatland's coaching staff after Joe Schmidt, the Ireland head coach.

It leaves Gatland with few options for when he announces his coaching staff on Wednesday, with Ireland defence coach Andy Farrell, interim Wales coach Rob Howley, and England forwards coach Steve Borthwick the likely contenders to take the Lions to NZ, as they search for their first series win against the All Blacks since 1971.

Awesome.

Howley it is then.......

Toonie turning it down is a 2 edged sword. I'm happy he's going to be in place to take us to Oz, but I feel he really could have contributed to the Lions. Such a shame.

So the Scottish representation is going to be down to one doctor and an emergency fly half then. Sucks....

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Toonie turning it down is a 2 edged sword. I'm happy he's going to be in place to take us to Oz, but I feel he really could have contributed to the Lions. Such a shame.

Mucho respect to Toonie! The world doth be changing.

Howley instead of Townsend is a rough deal.

I do wonder whether this may be the year that we see a few players turn the tour down too. With the number of players likely carrying niggles from the RWC and the frequency of long term injuries from the tours well documented I wouldn't be surprised if a few of them chose to stay home and get themselves right for next season and beyond.

The players aren't going to turn down £80k in their hand and increased marketability for their agent to talk up. The Lions tour is the one opportunity where the players can let their egos run rampant in pursuit of self promotion, and have no guilt about breaking team ranks.

OTOH the smart coaches know they have nothing to gain by taking a hiding in NZ, while revealing secrets to rivals.
Gatland seems happiest when trying to prove everyone else wrong, and probably feels bullet-proof after the 2013 success. He will undoubtedly double the training regime hoping fitness will overcome familiarity, and be insistent that no-one thinks of crying-off while still in possession of four limbs.
This autumn has reaffirmed just how brutal the All Blacks can be and it will be even more ferocious at home should the Lions put up a fight - something Gatland will demand as it is really the only weapon in the armoury.

If players start looking at how high the injury rate from the tours are then I wouldn't be surprised if they start considering the effect it can have on the length of their career.

I love the Lions but it's a tour that highlights how bloated the rugby calendar is now and how bad player burnout can become.

I reckon that between people here on 606 we could name a few players who will almost certainly be on tour (if fit to travel) but unlikely to finish it due to injury.

Warburton would be top of this list for me. Cracking player and likely to be Gatlands captain but if his body makes it through a full tour without breaking down then I'll be amazed.

No pro rugby player would turn down the lions. Its the pinnacle. To suggest they would is plain stupid.

That is unless howler gets the nod, then everyone might.

Gwlad wrote:No pro rugby player would turn down the lions. Its the pinnacle. To suggest they would is plain stupid.

That is unless howler gets the nod, then everyone might.

More of a pinnacle than the Rugby World Cup?

On a hiding to nothing playing Gatlandball anyway, I can't blame him for turning it down.

TightHEAD wrote:On a hiding to nothing playing Gatlandball anyway, I can't blame him for turning it down.

Aye and 30 English players trying to adapt to it - it's going to be a disaster. Good luck with it though, lads

TightHEAD wrote:On a hiding to nothing playing Gatlandball anyway, I can't blame him for turning it down.

You were clearly asleep for the entire duration of 2013.

If the Lions don't play silky running rugby now I'm blaming Gregor Townsend for not going. His fault for any lack of creativity now. And the Lions was so good to him in the past too. Shame.

Not sure he'll ever get offered again. Not sure if i have ever heard of anyone snubbing Lions.