Newport Gwent Dragons 2016/17 thread

[Luckless Pedestrian]

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as no one else has set one up, I thought I'd start a 2016/17 season thread for the mighty Dragons.

The Dragons website doesn't have a straightforward list of the squad members, so the best I can do is a link to the page:

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/Teams/Squad/Dragons

Fri, 05 Aug 2016      Rygbi Gogledd Cymru 1404 Parc Erias, Colwyn Bay F
Fri, 12 Aug 2016        Cardiff Blues Rodney Parade, Newport F
Sat, 20 Aug 2016        Ealing Trailfinders CCBC Centre for Sporting Excellence, Ystrad Mynach F
Fri, 26 Aug 2016        Exeter Chiefs Rodney Parade, Newport F

Fri, 02 Sep 2016        Ulster Kingspan Stadium, Belfast GP12 BBC N Ireland
Fri, 09 Sep 2016        Zebre Rugby Rodney Parade, Newport GP12
Sat, 17 Sep 2016               Munster Rodney Parade, Newport GP12 Sky Sports
Fri, 23 Sep 2016        Benetton Rugby Treviso Stadio Comunale di Monigo, Treviso GP12
Fri, 30 Sep 2016        Glasgow Warriors Rodney Parade, Newport GP12 BBC Two Wales

Sat, 08 Oct 2016        Scarlets Parc y Scarlets, Llanelli GP12 S4C
Sat, 29 Oct 2016        Ospreys Liberty Stadium, Swansea GP12 S4C, Sky Sports

Fri, 04 Nov 2016        Connacht Rodney Parade, Newport GP12
Sat, 12 Nov 2016        Leicester Tigers Welford Road, Leicester AWC
Fri, 18 Nov 2016         Scarlets Rodney Parade, Newport AWC
Sun, 27 Nov 2016        Edinburgh Rugby Rodney Parade, Newport GP12 S4C

Sat, 03 Dec 2016        Leinster Royal Dublin Society, Dublin GP12 S4C
Mon, 26 Dec 2016        Cardiff Blues Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff GP12 BBC Two Wales

Sun, 01 Jan 2017        Ospreys Rodney Parade, Newport GP12 BBC Two Wales
Fri, 06 Jan 2017      Benetton Rugby Treviso Rodney Parade, Newport GP12
Sun, 29 Jan 2017        Newcastle Falcons Rodney Parade, Newport AWC

Sat, 04 Feb 2017        Gloucester Rugby Kingsholm, Gloucester AWC
10/11/12 Feb 2017        Munster Thomond Park, Limerick GP12
17/18/19 Feb 2017        Connacht The Sportsground, Galway GP12
24/25/26 Feb 2017        Leinster Rodney Parade, Newport GP12

3/4/5 Mar 2017             Glasgow Warriors Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow GP12
24/25/26 Mar 2017        Ulster Rodney Parade, Newport GP12

7/8/9 Apr 2017      Zebre Rugby Stadio XXV Aprile, Parma GP12
Sat, 15 Apr 2017      Scarlets Rodney Parade, Newport GP12
28/29/30 Apr 2017        Edinburgh Rugby Murrayfield, Edinburgh GP12

Sat, 06 May 2017        Cardiff Blues Rodney Parade, Newport GP12

[offload]

The Dragons need funding far more than branding. There's no leadership, no ambition and no plan. You can't improve if all you've got is hope. Not much will change until new investors are on board and if that doesn't happen the franchise won't survive.

[Stone Motif]

The brand? If this isn't overreacting... We've been the worst funded Region since that bloke upped sticks and ran off because he went bust. We had the position of head coach available - nobody wanted it and KJ got it by default. We put 50% up for sale, nobody bought. Rectify those two things and the 'brand' as you call it can work. I'm not sure what rebranding as Newport would do....

Nonsense sorry even Hazel and Pinkie's begging bowl press release noted what a disaster the Dragons brand has been.

The Dragons have a legacy of failure. Who is going to see that as a decent investment?

Aside from that there is no security the Dragons can provide to any investor. Newport RFC have a huge asset they can use to provide confidence to an investor, or even to secure loans should the current jokers decide to get a shot of ambition.

There is no way the Dragons can attract investment as they are, let alone when you consider the tainted ownership.

[mikey_dragon]

Can you elaborate a bit more on what they should do then if they are to revert to Newport RFC?

They have multi-millionaires on the board already - they just don't invest. These moneymen who own Newport RFC haven't done much good as they got relegated, but then got saved because Bargoed didn't meet Prem requirements at the time.

[Stone Motif]

Can you elaborate a bit more on what they should do then if they are to revert to Newport RFC?

They have multi-millionaires on the board already - they just don't invest. These moneymen who own Newport RFC haven't done much good as they got relegated, but then got saved because Bargoed didn't meet Prem requirements at the time.

The fact that Newport RFC own a sodding great piece of real estate whilst the Dragons own no assets really shouldn't need elaboration.

The second bit merely demonstrates the lunacy of the regional set up.

[mikey_dragon]

I'm not entirely sure what Hazel et al owns, I've never really looked into it. How sure can we be that if we were just Newport RFC that those guys would reinvest a lot of cash? I mean that's the only way we can move forward. New coaching staff would be top of my list first and foremost.

I just don't see how shrinking our catchment area works, plus it makes it easier for valleys talent to be nabbed by others. All the Dragons academies seem to be doing fairly well atm.

[Stone Motif]

I'm not entiIt'll sure what Hazel et al owns, I've never really looked into it. How sure can we be that if we were just Newport RFC that those guys would reinvest a lot of cash? I mean that's the only way we can move forward. New coaching staff would be top of my list first and foremost.

I just don't see how shrinking our catchment area works, plus it makes it easier for valleys talent to be nabbed by others. All the Dragons academies seem to be doing fairly well atm.

The current board are irrelevant. It needs new blood. Even the current board admit that. But there is no security for any new investor without the ground. That belongs to Newport RFC. Hence Newport have an offer for a potential investor, the Dragons do not.

The catchment as you say will remain the same. Why would the development pathway change? Unless we get investment in the first team none of that 'valleys talent' will stay anyway.

[RiscaGame]

It is going to be a long season again after getting beaten by the Italian wipping boys. Glasgow next up.

Hi Alummm. Can you try to offer how we can improve? Or at least try to spell whipping correctly?

[ScarletSpiderman]

I'm not entiIt'll sure what Hazel et al owns, I've never really looked into it. How sure can we be that if we were just Newport RFC that those guys would reinvest a lot of cash? I mean that's the only way we can move forward. New coaching staff would be top of my list first and foremost.

I just don't see how shrinking our catchment area works, plus it makes it easier for valleys talent to be nabbed by others. All the Dragons academies seem to be doing fairly well atm.

The current board are irrelevant. It needs new blood. Even the current board admit that. But there is no security for any new investor without the ground. That belongs to Newport RFC. Hence Newport have an offer for a potential investor, the Dragons do not.

The catchment as you say will remain the same. Why would the development pathway change? Unless we get investment in the first team none of that 'valleys talent' will stay anyway.

I'm not sure that anyone investing in a pro-sport team is overly concerned about whether they will get their money back at the end of the day. So whilst owning your own stadium is ideal, I don't think it is a deal breaker.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I don't quite understand why people are so surprised that we lost the other day. We've only ever beaten them once over there, so it's not as though it was unprecedented. Our record there is one of the reasons we should have played our strongest XV, instead of making seven changes and leaving some of our best players out of the squad altogether.

Ulster beat them 22-11 there the other week, after Treviso had a player sin-binned. Ulster are comfortably better than we are. Why then was it expected that we'd win? (Of course, if you don't look at any Pro12 games / results other than those involving Welsh sides, you'd have seen the Ospreys putting them to the sword - at home - and assumed they'd be equally meek / sh!t again this week.)

Having said all that, it's getting harder and harder to defend the Dragons when they give us so little to go on. Our two league fixtures next month are against the Scarlets and the Ospreys, both away. If we lose those, as is likely, then we'll be in the same place we always are, and people will be justified in saying everything they say about us, laughing at us, and writing us off.

But at least you're keeping the squad fresh, eh Kingsley?

[Stone Motif]

I'm not entiIt'll sure what Hazel et al owns, I've never really looked into it. How sure can we be that if we were just Newport RFC that those guys would reinvest a lot of cash? I mean that's the only way we can move forward. New coaching staff would be top of my list first and foremost.

I just don't see how shrinking our catchment area works, plus it makes it easier for valleys talent to be nabbed by others. All the Dragons academies seem to be doing fairly well atm.

The current board are irrelevant. It needs new blood. Even the current board admit that. But there is no security for any new investor without the ground. That belongs to Newport RFC. Hence Newport have an offer for a potential investor, the Dragons do not.

The catchment as you say will remain the same. Why would the development pathway change? Unless we get investment in the first team none of that 'valleys talent' will stay anyway.

I'm not sure that anyone investing in a pro-sport team is overly concerned about whether they will get their money back at the end of the day.  So whilst owning your own stadium is ideal, I don't think it is a deal breaker.

No offense, but that's cobblers. Especially when the investment proposition is as poor as the Dragons.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

[LordDowlais]

Am I hearing this right ? There was no TMO and the refs did not have microphones to communicate with each other ?

WTF is going on with this league ?

What a joke. Apparently there was a lot of foul play and dubious decisions. Only in the Pro12.

And people wonder why us Welsh are finding it hard to warm to it. I reckon there were more people at Sardis to watch Merthyr and Ponty than there was at Scarlets on Saturday.

[RiscaGame]

Officially there wasn't more people in attendance at the Ponty v Merthyr game. I find the comparisons a bit daft though. Very Owen Robins like and he's a bit twp.

[LordDowlais]

Officially there wasn't more people in attendance at the Ponty v Merthyr game. I find the comparisons a bit daft though. Very Owen Robins like and he's a bit twp.

Where have yo got your info from ?

I know there was just over 4000 for Scarlets game on Saturday night, but I cannot find any official figures for the game at Sardis, all I can tell you though, was the place was packed.

[mikey_dragon]

They were saying just over 4000 for the game at Sardis - not sure if it's official. Somebody on Twitter certainly thought it wasnt true.

[LordDowlais]

They were saying just over 4000 for the game at Sardis - not sure if it's official. Somebody on Twitter certainly thought it wasnt true.

I was at Sardis mikey, and it was packed. There seemed to be about the same as the cup game last season. It was a very good high quality game as well.

Has anybody heard what I was told about the non TMO and non communication between the officials for your game out in Italy ? This should not be acceptable in a professional league. What a farce. Only in the Pro12 though.

[Stone Motif]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

That's not relevant to my point. I guarantee any big investors have some security against the assets of the club. You think Carmarthenshire Council loaned you that money without some security against the stadium?

[Stone Motif]

Officially there wasn't more people in attendance at the Ponty v Merthyr game. I find the comparisons a bit daft though. Very Owen Robins like and he's a bit twp.

Where have yo got your info from ?

I know there was just over 4000 for Scarlets game on Saturday night, but I cannot find any official figures for the game at Sardis, all I can tell you though, was the place was packed.

Wonder how many made the long trip over ftom Craggy Island?

Therein lies the stupidity of any comparison Andy.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

That's not relevant to my point. I guarantee any big investors have some security against the assets of the club. You think Carmarthenshire Council loaned you that money without some security against the stadium?

You're probably right with regards the council, but if you're after a private backer I'm still not sure that it would be such an issue. It hasn't stopped people putting cash in to the Ospreys etc. That said, only time will tell I guess.

[Stone Motif]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

That's not relevant to my point. I guarantee any big investors have some security against the assets of the club. You think Carmarthenshire Council loaned you that money without some security against the stadium?

You're probably right with regards the council, but if you're after a private backer I'm still not sure that it would be such an issue.  It hasn't stopped people putting cash in to the Ospreys etc.  That said, only time will tell I guess.

The Ospreys are hanging on to the shirt tails of Premiership football, hardly a valid comparison.

[RiscaGame]

Officially there wasn't more people in attendance at the Ponty v Merthyr game. I find the comparisons a bit daft though. Very Owen Robins like and he's a bit twp.

Where have yo got your info from ?

I know there was just over 4000 for Scarlets game on Saturday night, but I cannot find any official figures for the game at Sardis, all I can tell you though, was the place was packed.

http://www.pro12rugby.com/report/williams-inspires-scarlets-connacht/?FixGuid=16SC3478

Just over 4000 then aye. More like 5630.

http://www.ponty.net/-2126

4800 there. So as I said, an incorrect comparison and unnecessary anyway because it doesn't achieve anything.

[PhilBB]

You only have to look at the pictures from Sardis Road to know that there were not 4800 there.

It's a typical fabrication from that club.

[PhilBB]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

That's not relevant to my point. I guarantee any big investors have some security against the assets of the club. You think Carmarthenshire Council loaned you that money without some security against the stadium?

Which big investors have this security?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Officially there wasn't more people in attendance at the Ponty v Merthyr game. I find the comparisons a bit daft though. Very Owen Robins like and he's a bit twp.

Where have yo got your info from ?

I know there was just over 4000 for Scarlets game on Saturday night, but I cannot find any official figures for the game at Sardis, all I can tell you though, was the place was packed.

http://www.pro12rugby.com/report/williams-inspires-scarlets-connacht/?FixGuid=16SC3478

Just over 4000 then aye. More like 5630.

http://www.ponty.net/-2126

4800 there. So as I said, an incorrect comparison and unnecessary anyway because it doesn't achieve anything.

And in any case, what does any of that have to do with the Dragons?

[munkian]

I don't quite understand why people are so surprised that we lost the other day. We've only ever beaten them once over there, so it's not as though it was unprecedented. Our record there is one of the reasons we should have played our strongest XV, instead of making seven changes and leaving some of our best players out of the squad altogether.

Ulster beat them 22-11 there the other week, after Treviso had a player sin-binned. Ulster are comfortably better than we are. Why then was it expected that we'd win? (Of course, if you don't look at any Pro12 games / results other than those involving Welsh sides, you'd have seen the Ospreys putting them to the sword - at home - and assumed they'd be equally meek / sh!t again this week.)

Having said all that, it's getting harder and harder to defend the Dragons when they give us so little to go on. Our two league fixtures next month are against the Scarlets and the Ospreys, both away. If we lose those, as is likely, then we'll be in the same place we always are, and people will be justified in saying everything they say about us, laughing at us, and writing us off.

But at least you're keeping the squad fresh, eh Kingsley?

We lose away to the better of the italian sides and get ridiculed - Blues scrape past Zebre away but Zebra at home are hailed as NZ at Eden park

[PhilBB]

We lose away to the better of the italian sides and get ridiculed - Blues scrape past Zebre away but Zebra at home are hailed as NZ at Eden park

Zebre finished above Treviso last season.

27-11 is a thumping.

Whereas Cardiff threw away a bonus point.

Context.......

[RiscaGame]

Officially there wasn't more people in attendance at the Ponty v Merthyr game. I find the comparisons a bit daft though. Very Owen Robins like and he's a bit twp.

Where have yo got your info from ?

I know there was just over 4000 for Scarlets game on Saturday night, but I cannot find any official figures for the game at Sardis, all I can tell you though, was the place was packed.

http://www.pro12rugby.com/report/williams-inspires-scarlets-connacht/?FixGuid=16SC3478

Just over 4000 then aye. More like 5630.

http://www.ponty.net/-2126

4800 there. So as I said, an incorrect comparison and unnecessary anyway because it doesn't achieve anything.

And in any case, what does any of that have to do with the Dragons?

Quite right, sorry

[Stone Motif]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

That's not relevant to my point. I guarantee any big investors have some security against the assets of the club. You think Carmarthenshire Council loaned you that money without some security against the stadium?

Which big investors have this security?

How about the one in the example?

[PhilBB]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

That's not relevant to my point. I guarantee any big investors have some security against the assets of the club. You think Carmarthenshire Council loaned you that money without some security against the stadium?

Which big investors have this security?

How about the one in the example?

Any others?

[Stone Motif]

Stone, how many rugby team owners/backers can you name that have made money out of it?

That's not relevant to my point. I guarantee any big investors have some security against the assets of the club. You think Carmarthenshire Council loaned you that money without some security against the stadium?

Which big investors have this security?

How about the one in the example?

Any others?

I've never looked at the respective titles for all the grounds to be honest. Are you saying there in no ground in the UK with any debt secured against it? I can think of at least one.

[PhilBB]

I've never looked at the respective titles for all the grounds to be honest. Are you saying there in no ground in the UK with any debt secured against it? I can think of at least one.

Sorry, I may have misinterpreted. I thought that you were specifically on about PyS.

The Turks have three mortgagees - the WRU, Huw Evans and the Council. Although I think it is only the Council who have the used the stadium as security as it is built on their land.

Rodney Parade is also used as security against the debts incurred by NGD, rather unfairly in my opinion.

[Stone Motif]

I've never looked at the respective titles for all the grounds to be honest. Are you saying there in no ground in the UK with any debt secured against it? I can think of at least one.

Sorry, I may have misinterpreted. I thought that you were specifically on about PyS.

The Turks have three mortgagees - the WRU, Huw Evans and the Council. Although I think it is only the Council who have the used the stadium as security as it is built on their land.

Rodney Parade is also used as security against the debts incurred by NGD, rather unfairly in my opinion.

That last was the one I was thinking of. Absolutely bananas.

[mikey_dragon]

Apparently Shaun Knight has been released and signed for Bath.

[munkian]

On loan I thought ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Not much of a surprise - Bath have a prop crisis and we're not playing him.

Watch him get rave reviews in the Premiership now.

[munkian]

He's been Poopie since he was gushed about at U20 level.

[mikey_dragon]

I remember him doing alright on a couple of occasions, better than Harris who outside of his first season has been quite underwhelming.

[PhilBB]

Can you elaborate a bit more on what they should do then if they are to revert to Newport RFC?

They have multi-millionaires on the board already - they just don't invest. These moneymen who own Newport RFC haven't done much good as they got relegated, but then got saved because Bargoed didn't meet Prem requirements at the time.

They don't invest?

Last year Brown and Hazell loaned £425,000 EACH.

[PhilBB]

I'm not entirely sure what Hazel et al owns, I've never really looked into it. How sure can we be that if we were just Newport RFC that those guys would reinvest a lot of cash? I mean that's the only way we can move forward. New coaching staff would be top of my list first and foremost.

I just don't see how shrinking our catchment area works, plus it makes it easier for valleys talent to be nabbed by others. All the Dragons academies seem to be doing fairly well atm.

You're missing the point.

The ONLY thing of any value is Newport RFC as it owns the asset. That is why Newport RFC should be up for sale, not the NGD. If it were a standalone, as it should be, it would be Newport RFC up for sale.

The set up of the business is wholly wrong. As with 'regional rugby', the dogma comes before the financial common sense.

[mikey_dragon]

Can you elaborate a bit more on what they should do then if they are to revert to Newport RFC?

They have multi-millionaires on the board already - they just don't invest. These moneymen who own Newport RFC haven't done much good as they got relegated, but then got saved because Bargoed didn't meet Prem requirements at the time.

They don't invest?

Last year Brown and Hazell loaned £425,000 EACH.

Dylan.

[mikey_dragon]

I'm not entirely sure what Hazel et al owns, I've never really looked into it. How sure can we be that if we were just Newport RFC that those guys would reinvest a lot of cash? I mean that's the only way we can move forward. New coaching staff would be top of my list first and foremost.

I just don't see how shrinking our catchment area works, plus it makes it easier for valleys talent to be nabbed by others. All the Dragons academies seem to be doing fairly well atm.

You're missing the point.

The ONLY thing of any value is Newport RFC as it owns the asset. That is why Newport RFC should be up for sale, not the NGD. If it were a standalone, as it should be, it would be Newport RFC up for sale.

The set up of the business is wholly wrong. As with 'regional rugby', the dogma comes before the financial common sense.

Nah I'm confused now fam. How do we know that these blokes will invest in a fully pro Newport rfc? That was my point. I read your post before about Newport rfc keeping everything afloat as well btw.

[PhilBB]

Can you elaborate a bit more on what they should do then if they are to revert to Newport RFC?

They have multi-millionaires on the board already - they just don't invest. These moneymen who own Newport RFC haven't done much good as they got relegated, but then got saved because Bargoed didn't meet Prem requirements at the time.

They don't invest?

Last year Brown and Hazell loaned £425,000 EACH.

Dylan.

'They' has now just become Matthews, it seems.

[PhilBB]

Nah I'm confused now fam. How do we know that these blokes will invest in a fully pro Newport rfc? That was my point. I read your post before about Newport rfc keeping everything afloat as well btw.

Because they have an asset to secure their loan against in order to minimise risk. It's that basic.

[mikey_dragon]

Nah I'm confused now fam. How do we know that these blokes will invest in a fully pro Newport rfc? That was my point. I read your post before about Newport rfc keeping everything afloat as well btw.

Because they have an asset to secure their loan against in order to minimise risk. It's that basic.

Have they proposed that they would invest in a fully pro Newport RFC? It would need to be a substantial investment.

[mikey_dragon]

Can you elaborate a bit more on what they should do then if they are to revert to Newport RFC?

They have multi-millionaires on the board already - they just don't invest. These moneymen who own Newport RFC haven't done much good as they got relegated, but then got saved because Bargoed didn't meet Prem requirements at the time.

They don't invest?

Last year Brown and Hazell loaned £425,000 EACH.

Dylan.

'They' has now just become Matthews, it seems.

And I wasn't wrong

[Stone Motif]

Nah I'm confused now fam. How do we know that these blokes will invest in a fully pro Newport rfc? That was my point. I read your post before about Newport rfc keeping everything afloat as well btw.

Because they have an asset to secure their loan against in order to minimise risk. It's that basic.

Have they proposed that they would invest in a fully pro Newport RFC? It would need to be a substantial investment.

It would need to be a substantial investment. One that can't be made into the Dragons as there is no asset to provide security against it.

Plus with the asset, anyone might invest, not just the current lot.

[mikey_dragon]

Nah I'm confused now fam. How do we know that these blokes will invest in a fully pro Newport rfc? That was my point. I read your post before about Newport rfc keeping everything afloat as well btw.

Because they have an asset to secure their loan against in order to minimise risk. It's that basic.

Have they proposed that they would invest in a fully pro Newport RFC? It would need to be a substantial investment.

It would need to be a substantial investment. One that can't be made into the Dragons as there is no asset to provide security against it.

Plus with the asset, anyone might invest, not just the current lot.

True.

[PhilBB]

Have they proposed that they would invest in a fully pro Newport RFC? It would need to be a substantial investment.

I think the point is being missed here.

The business set up for a standalone NRFC encourages investment. The business set up for an independent NGD does not, as it has no assets. It is just a floating entity that is unpopular and, basically, has failed.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'm not in the habit of quoting myself, but:

I was looking at the fixtures, and October is quite a big month league-wise. We didn't win a single derby game last season, and our away form is awful, so we need to win one or ideally both of the games against the Scarlets and the Ospreys, or things will start to look depressingly familiar even at that early stage of the season.

[mikey_dragon]

Have they proposed that they would invest in a fully pro Newport RFC? It would need to be a substantial investment.

I think the point is being missed here.

The business set up for a standalone NRFC encourages investment. The business set up for an independent NGD does not, as it has no assets. It is just a floating entity that is unpopular and, basically, has failed.

It's not being missed fam, honestly. Stone answered it before this post pretty much.

At first it seemed like people were alluding to some fantasy like "Make it Newport RFC again so the guys can invest and we'll come good." Btw anyone seen Newport in the premiership recently? Compare their fortunes with Merthyr who are actually receiving some investment from their owners. Hazel and Brown are probably the ones putting investors off, right pair of knackers they are.

[Sponsored content]