England vs Pakistan 3rd Test, Edgbaston

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England 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Alex Hales, 3 Joe Root, 4 James Vince, 5 Gary Ballance, 6 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 7 Moeen Ali, 8 Chris Woakes, 9 Stuart Broad, 10 Steven Finn, 11 James Anderson

Pakistan 1 Mohammad Hafeez, 2 Sami Aslam, 3 Azhar Ali, 4 Younis Khan, 5 Misbah-ul-Haq (capt), 6 Asad Shafiq, 7 Sarfraz Ahmed (wk), 8 Yasir Shah, Sohail Khan, 10 Mohammad Amir, 11 Rahat Ali

Its a competitive total



Hopefuly

Maybe 50 runs light or so, but England should remain confident.

Pakistan bowled well in patches, particularly Sohail, but were loose on so many occasions that they may feel that an opportunity has escaped.

Equal opportunities missed were from the four England batsman who got starts, but failed to push on.

Next target for Cook is to shoot Pakistan out for below 250, thus firmly asserting authority on the series. Though we may have a somewhat truncated day tomorrow.

Yes a day where both sides will be disappointed it didn't go better (Pakistan having England 150 odd for 5, and England having four batsman get in, and not make a big score), but also satisfied it didn't go worse (England collapsing from 150 odd for 5, Pakistan letting England get away with loose bowling spells)

Strange but compelling day - 50/50 for me. England will hope overhead conditions tomorrow favour them...which should see them on top of the Pakistan batsmen again

Very difficult to call who is ahead after the first day. Happy to see Ballance get some runs, i really do think there is a place for him at number 5 in amongst the more free scoring players. However, I think it is game over for vince.

With Misbah conceding the advantage of using Yasir Shah in the 4th innings, Pakistan either need a first-innings lead or England to go on a third innings collapse. If the first 3 innings all score 300, England would be strong favourites going into the 4th.

I hope we get a lot of play tomorrow, it's in England's interests to get this game moving and get Pakistan's 4 bowlers back in the field. There were even suggestions on Sky that England could declare after Moeen got out, especially while they were watching the new ball hoop about under the clouds. Imagine Anderson and Broad getting a couple of overs each against a new opening partnership with the ball doing that much.

I'm not going to have a go at any of the England batsman before the second innings, but it was a real shame that none of them went on, especially Hales, Vince and Ballance who all need a score.

Finally, I was a little perplexed as to why there is an "umpire's call" on impact? As impact doesn't use the predictive element of the ball-tracker, I thought it was a lot more accurate, possibly to the extent of telling you with virtually complete certainty whether impact was inline or outside. But Cook was given out on review with "umpire's call" on impact. Seemed odd.

LivinginItaly wrote:Very difficult to call who is ahead after the first day. Happy to see Ballance get some runs, i really do think there is a place for him at number 5 in amongst the more free scoring players. However, I think it is game over for vince.

Pretty much agree with this summation LivinginItaly - Ballance gives the middle order some balance (not intended...) in terms of how they score. Even more so when Stokes returns to the team.

Who would people like to see come in in Vince's place? I expect in the winter they'll use that spot for Rashid (and shuffle the batting order), but for the next game? Borthwick?

Just watched the Channel 5 highlights, only saw a small bit of the morning play in real time. Always very difficult to get a feel for the flow of the game from highlights but I got the impression that Pakistan kept plugging away pretty admirably and gained fair results by stumps. They seemed to hold onto everything that came their way - lovely anticipation and movement by Sarfraz to pouch Ballance - and never gave up on boundary chases.

Their star man was obviously Sohail with a fivefer although I suspect (this didn't really come out on the highlights) a lot of credit should go to Yasir Shah and his 27 overs on day one @ less than 2.4 each to allow all the seamers to keep going and be rotated.

Again hard to judge how difficult batting was and how well England performed. I would say though that too many of the dismissals - Root, Vince, Bairstow - were very ordinary and due (at least on the final ball that got them) to poor or nothing shots. As often said, we need to see the second innings before making a proper judgment on the first. However, unless Pakistan's batsmen make those same sort of mistakes as ours did and/or we bowl well to very well, I doubt that we have enough on the board. The surface and the conditions suggested batting was tricky at times but the pitch was never a minefield and it won't be tomorrow either. Should be a nice bonus as well for Pakistan's openers that they can prepare overnight and at the start of the morning for their knock rather than having to go out and field for, say, half an hour before having to dash off and then start batting ten minutes later.

I don't think many Test sides win these days when batting first and scoring under 300. It's a bit harsh to criticise Ballance and Ali when they scored half-centuries but we probably needed at least one of them to really kick on further.

All in all, this match has to unfold a lot further but I feel Pakistan should be happier with their day's work - 10 wickets on the opening day should never be sniffed at - and where they are now.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

LivinginItaly wrote:Very difficult to call who is ahead after the first day. Happy to see Ballance get some runs, i really do think there is a place for him at number 5 in amongst the more free scoring players. However, I think it is game over for vince.

Pretty much agree with this summation LivinginItaly - Ballance gives the middle order some balance (not intended...) in terms of how they score. Even more so when Stokes returns to the team.

Who would people like to see come in in Vince's place? I expect in the winter they'll use that spot for Rashid (and shuffle the batting order), but for the next game? Borthwick?

Too late now but I'll tell you the story of Jack Benaud in the morning. Sleep well all.

Didn't watch after tea but I'm reasonably happy with where England ended up - perhaps 20 or 30 under par ; but not bad on a tricky batting day , especially after being three down early on and 150/5.

As to whether it will be enough : that depends on how they bowl and Pakistan bat. Edgbaston has a reputation of being easier to bat on days two and three ; but with more overcast skies forecast for Thursday and a drier than normal pitch I'm not sure that conditions will be hugely different tomorrow. As guildford says , that is no minefield - but it has enough to keep bowlers interested ; and I fancy Anderson Broad Woakes and Finn to make life hard for the Pakistan top order.
Pakistan batting has relied a lot on Misbah and Shafiq ; and it may well be that how those two do tomorrow that again has a big influence on where this match is going.
I think Pakistan would want a substantial lead , batting last. Unless and until they get one , I am not calling them ahead in the game ; although I think they'll be quite pleased with the outcome of the skipper's gamble on fielding first.

Right now I'd call this even.

Have to say I thought Sohail bowled pretty well...nothing spectacular , just kept it (mostly) around off stump and moved it enough to let the batsman go wrong - as they occasionally did. No great pace but I'm not sure pace is a big deal on this pitch.
Quite the contrast to his previous Test figures ! Admittedly a small sample.
The other quicks gave away a few too many easy boundaries , except for Amir's tight spell before tea when he and Yasir really put the pressure on Ballance and Moeen. Both the batsmen came through it well - and went on to decent , though not large , scores. Ballance did his place no harm ; and Moeen may have settled his detractors down for now ... or not ? Let's see how he bowls then
Nothing today from Root , Bairstow or Olly's hero Woakes ; but I thought Cook played well : was a surprise when he got out.

Vince ? Once again , nice shots , good start , fairly fluent ... and gone too early. As I see Dobell commented : "you don't get extra runs for artistic impression" ... and you'd think he badly needs a big score to prolong his stay in the side. Should get a second innings anyway.

Hard to tell if its a good score relative to what Pakistan might do. I think there were at least 50-100 runs left out there though, especially as every time England seemed to be nudging ahead there was a wicket, sometimes from nothing e.g. Ballance glancing to the keeper. I also think Moeen could have gone on further but ending up having to give his wicket away when he was left with Finn for company

I wouldn't fancy this to be a good score against Australia, SA or India, but I would not be that surprised to see Pakistan shot out for around 200

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

LivinginItaly wrote:Very difficult to call who is ahead after the first day. Happy to see Ballance get some runs, i really do think there is a place for him at number 5 in amongst the more free scoring players. However, I think it is game over for vince.

Pretty much agree with this summation LivinginItaly - Ballance gives the middle order some balance (not intended...) in terms of how they score. Even more so when Stokes returns to the team.

Who would people like to see come in in Vince's place? I expect in the winter they'll use that spot for Rashid (and shuffle the batting order), but for the next game? Borthwick?

Too late now but I'll tell you the story of Jack Benaud in the morning. Sleep well all.

Morning Olly and most, evening Alfie and a few distinguished others.

First off, I share just about everyone's concerns and frustrations with Vince. It clearly shouldn't and won't go on indefinitely. However, I don't like and feel awkward with picking a side for the next Test when this one is still being played. Especially when there are a potential four days left.

This brings me to John (''Jack'') Benaud. He was and is the kid brother of the great Richie. The younger sibling bowled a bit but was mainly a batsman. He made his Test debut at home to Pakistan in late 1972 without making much impact on the game. He was selected for the next Test in the same series and again went for a low score in his first innings. As was the custom with Australian selectors at the time, the team for Australia's next Test was announced whilst the current one was still being played. Furthermore, it was announced over the public address system when Jack Benaud was at the crease for his second knock and that was how he learned he had been dropped. Furious at this, he smashed his way to 140 odd which enabled Australia to win the match.

Jack Benaud only ever played one more Test, some time later the next year away to the West Indies. However, that was the last time Australian selectors ever publicly announced a side whilst a match was being played.

Still think Pakistan should have batted first but they did bowl England out on the first day so may be it was not such a bad call. I wonder what Cook would have done if he'd won the toss.
A score of 297 is intriguing. It could be a match-winning total if England get something of a first innings lead. But if Pakistan make 400 then it's clearly an inadequate first-innings score.

In line with VTR's post this morning, I do suspect we are reliant on Pakistan's shortcomings with the bat for 297 to appear a good score.

I think that sometimes a competitive score is not necessarily the same as a good score. I would argue our total is probably 50 runs short of a good score; but in the context of the game, taking into account the conditions and the relative strengths/weaknesses of both teams, we have posted a competitive score. The first two sessions will go some way to clarifying the match situation.

sirfredperry wrote:Still think Pakistan should have batted first but they did bowl England out on the first day so may be it was not such a bad call. I wonder what Cook would have done if he'd won the toss.
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Batted, Im almost certain of it. Bowling first is a real roll of the dice. Also England will be happy to not be facing Shah at the end of the game, even if its not a spinners wicket.



As for Vince...seems hes no longer flavour of the month despite getting a half decet score for once. As Ballance has been compared to Collingwood above (grinds out enough good scores whilst looking limited to keep him in the side whilst having a permament camp of people opposed to his existance because he isnt Kevin Pietersen) Vince is in danger of becoming the new Ian Bell...everyone knows hes better than the scores hes making , and when he hits a good shot he looks really good doing it.
Id be very surpised if Vince doesnt get the next test, but the pressure is on . Even so its early days in his career, lets not forget how long it took Woakes, Stokes and Bairstow to look like test players.
And theres also Hales...He is the sort of opener that could really thrive on Asian pitches but the corner he seemd to have turned against Sri Lanaka has apparently led to a dead end. He just looks too vulnerable for an opener, and its not like hes scoring rapidly and getting out playing shots (Cook is being the aggressor) which was the jsutification for picking him in the first place. I have a real concern that his test woes will affect his limited overs game, if not from confidence then from having to relearn how to play and flip between formats.
He will have ahd 3 series by the end of this one, if hes still averaging well below 30 and yet to get a century you have to start asking if hes really the solution ...given how many openers/3's have been ditched or moved for doing better. Maybe he could be moved down the order to replace Vince if another opener could be handed the poison chalice.

LivinginItaly wrote:I think that sometimes a competitive score is not necessarily the same as a good score. I would argue our total is probably 50 runs short of a good score; but in the context of the game, taking into account the conditions and the relative strengths/weaknesses  of both teams, we have posted a competitive score. The first two sessions will go some way to clarifying the match situation.

Agreed...why I used that phrase.

Both sides are very much in this game and neither will be entirely happy or dissapointed. Theres pressure on Pakistan to come out with a decent start against a bowling unit that will relish these conditions.

Perfect start for England!

Bit of a gift wicket ...but Jimmy will take it.

Good start to the day for England

At best an ordinary ball from Jimmy and certainly an even worse shot from Hafeez. 0/1.

At Surrey, Alec Stewart always bangs on about how important it is for the openers to have time to prepare for their innings - perhaps that's where we and Pakistan are going wrong!

I see we are still collectively unsure as to how "good" or otherwise the 297 will prove...

I guess it is still to be decided ; but my view owes much to the fact that a number of batsmen got solid starts ; but none went on past 70. In my experience that suggests a pitch on which the bowlers were getting a bit of help , even though it may not have been obvious to a casual view from the grandstand - or the TV. Certainly not a minefield ; but far from a road .
Of course it may change today , and Pakistan might cash in . But I suspect there will be enough there to enable England to keep them honest provided they bowl well.

I'm not expecting them to skittle Pakistan for 120. But I think they will be able to prevent them from taking what they want - ie a decisive lead. Which will make this a second innings contest.

England probably will feel they left a few runs out there. But perhaps that's not giving Pakistan enough credit ? They did bowl a few loose balls - hence a high boundary count . But they bowled some good balls too.
England now need to do the same.

alfie wrote:I see we are still collectively unsure as to how "good" or otherwise the 297 will prove...

I guess it is still to be decided ; but my view owes much to the fact that a number of batsmen got solid starts ; but none went on past 70. In my experience that suggests a pitch on which the bowlers were getting a bit of help , even though it may not have been obvious to a casual view from the grandstand  - or the TV.  Certainly not a minefield ; but far from a road .
Of course it may change today , and Pakistan might cash in . But I suspect there will be enough there to enable England to keep them honest provided they bowl well.

I'm not expecting them to skittle Pakistan for 120. But I think they will be able to prevent them from taking what they want - ie a decisive lead.  Which will make this a second innings contest.

England probably will feel they left a few runs out there. But perhaps that's not giving Pakistan enough credit ? They did bowl a few loose balls - hence a high boundary count . But they bowled some good balls too.
England now need to do the same.

Which in turn causes me to doubt again Misbah's decision to not only bowl first but also as a consequence to bat last. I actually think Pakistan did pretty well yesterday and, as far as I was able to judge and unlike most others, put them marginally ahead at the end of day one. However, that still doesn't (yet) mean it was the right decision or that the advantage won't change.

Had to go out for a while and return to see no more wickets : bit surprised to be honest .
Pakistan batting well or bowling not quite on ? How has Finn looked ?

Alfie - Finn and England bowling tidily but not looking especially threatening. In the eyes of some probably - Pakistan's batters being overly cautious and respectful. In mine - they recognise there is bags of time and are showing sensible restraint.

Soon be coming up to Moeen time, I suggest.

Yes . Aslam seems much more the Test opener than the lad he replaced , just from the overs I saw.

Old fashioned Test grafting , eh ? Setting things up for stroke players later on : makes sense to me.

Moeen time...

I think we can start to conclude that England's effort was below par and bordering on the very poor from a lot of the players. Not saying they can't come back into it, but this is clearly not that difficult a pitch to bat on

Certainly Pakistan's session. Will be interesting to see how England come back after the break. Might have to be a bit patient...as indeed the batsmen have been this morning.

Didn't like the way Broad was grimacing and feeling his side just before lunch. Hope nothing too wrong there...could do with one of his magic spells. I actually think he has been a little "off" so far in this series so am hoping he will turn it around in this match.

I will declare it now: I have a bad feeling about where this match is heading. After the excellence of Old Trafford it seems very flat with both bat and ball so far.

If England don't come out firing after lunch Pakistan will be eyeing up a decent first innings lead and a chance to put more pressure on the likes of Vince in the second innings

Thing is even if Pakistran do get to 400 its still not put England out of the game by a long stretch. Very dissapointing morning for England though.

But what a great series this makes it.

In other news Mark Wood has taken three wickets on his return to first class cricket this morning

VTR wrote:I will declare it now: I have a bad feeling about where this match is heading. After the excellence of Old Trafford it seems very flat with both bat and ball so far.

If England don't come out firing after lunch Pakistan will be eyeing up a decent first innings lead and a chance to put more pressure on the likes of Vince in the second innings

VTR - yes, Pakistan's morning and their day yesterday in my view. So whilst I would prefer to be in their shoes now, I still wouldn't rush to any sort of final judgment. They remain more than 220 behind and let's not forget will need to bat last.

Really need a breakthrough. Not time to panic just yet as one wicket could easily bring 3 or 4 more (as often happened in The Ashes last year). Needs someone to step up with a good spell. Seems runs have dried up but from bowling wider lines

Didn't see that session but blatantly Pakistan's from the scoreboard. Did we even get close to a wicket?

Ali's figures nothing to write home about although I'm sure that won't stop Gooseberry!

Guildford - two dropped catches of Azhar, but mostly pretty safe. Decent bowling, making it hard to score even when not too threatening, but a good 10 or so runs given away in the field.

Two dropped catches, one a tough caught and bowled for Ali, one for Root early in the session that would usually be taken. I don't think we are really beating the bat or hurrying the batsmen

Real danger the game will get away from England after tea and I think any deficit over 100 is match winning. The way things are going Pakistan can just bat and bat, the England attack will tire and we will be looking at a very terminal 200 lead or greater

Batting was definitely a big mess up yesterday, talk about believing your own hype.....

A timely hundred from Jason Roy for Surrey against Middlesex today....Mr Vince's bottom just got a tad warmer....

Ballance and Roy would be a contrasting and perhaps effective combo. There again, Olly and I are hardly coming at it from a neutral perspective.

VTR wrote:Two dropped catches, one a tough caught and bowled for Ali, one for Root early in the session that would usually be taken. I don't think we are really beating the bat or hurrying the batsmen

Real danger the game will get away from England after tea and I think any deficit over 100 is match winning. The way things are going Pakistan can just bat and bat, the England attack will tire and we will be looking at a very terminal 200 lead or greater

Batting was definitely a big mess up yesterday, talk about believing your own hype.....

Thanks, VTR and you, James, as well.

With regard to the possibility of the attack tiring, I think that's an area where Yasir Shah performed a valuable role yesterday. He sent down 27 economic overs enabling the seamers to rest and rotate. Ali might pop up with a wicket or two (and to be fair, often does) but keeping it quiet isn't his main thing.

VTR wrote:Two dropped catches, one a tough caught and bowled for Ali, one for Root early in the session that would usually be taken. I don't think we are really beating the bat or hurrying the batsmen

Real danger the game will get away from England after tea and I think any deficit over 100 is match winning. The way things are going Pakistan can just bat and bat, the England attack will tire and we will be looking at a very terminal 200 lead or greater

Batting was definitely a big mess up yesterday, talk about believing your own hype.....

Can't disagree with any of that.

Most of our batsmen got themselves out with daft shots. Only recall Cook, Vince and Woakes getting out to good balls.

Pakistan showing what a bit of graft and application can do. Can't recall the last time England's bowling attack looked so toothless. We've given them the odd scare plus the dropped catches you mentioned, but they've had the proverbial pipe and slippers out most of the time.

England's only real hope is that Pakistan will need to accelerate the run rate at some point, if they are to build a big enough total to defend. You have to think they will want to just bat the once. Once they try to up the pace, more chances will come.

If not, they will probably declare on 600-650 and bowl England out again for under 300 on a wearing pitch.

Well that was a bit daft. After building such a good partnership too.

Great innings but I feel slightly gutted for Aslan - just 18 short of his ton. Nice throw from Vince to run him out.

Imposter Younus Khan is my favourite thing about this series so far

Congrats Azhar on patient and hard-fought ton. Really punished England for dropping him twice in the 30s and 60s.

Shame more of England's batsmen couldn't show that kind of restraint and diligence sometimes.

did not see this coming, thought we were a much better side. think bowling too short this morning with the new ball didnt help, but overall we have been very poor this test while pakistan have been very good

compelling and rich wrote:did not see this coming, thought we were a much better side. think bowling too short this morning with the new ball didnt help, but overall we have been very poor this test while pakistan have been very good

As showed in the UAE all winter - there's not too much difference between these two sides. Pakistan didn't suddenly become a bad team overnight after Old Trafford - just England play very well there. This game is intriguingly poised

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:did not see this coming, thought we were a much better side. think bowling too short this morning with the new ball didnt help, but overall we have been very poor this test while pakistan have been very good

As showed in the UAE all winter - there's not too much difference between these two sides. Pakistan didn't suddenly become a bad team overnight after Old Trafford - just England play very well there. This game is intriguingly poised

pitches in uae were the difference, no doubting they have better spinners in their team and play spin better than we do. but in english conditions id take us over them anyday. just think weve really under performed. you dont go from beating a team by a nearly a record margin to getting beat without playing badly

compelling and rich wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:did not see this coming, thought we were a much better side. think bowling too short this morning with the new ball didnt help, but overall we have been very poor this test while pakistan have been very good

As showed in the UAE all winter - there's not too much difference between these two sides. Pakistan didn't suddenly become a bad team overnight after Old Trafford - just England play very well there. This game is intriguingly poised

pitches in uae were the difference, no doubting they have better spinners in their team and play spin better than we do. but in english conditions id take us over them anyday. just think weve really under performed. you dont go from beating a team by a nearly a record margin to getting beat without playing badly

England aren't playing well here no - but Pakistan really underperformed at Old Trafford as well and have bounced back very well here (which is something we haven't seen subcontinental sides do when over here *cough* India *cough*)

That man Woakes nips out Ali with the last ball of the day - a real shame for him, a magnificent knock nonetheless

Pakistan firmly on top here - if they're still batting a tea tomorrow England will be in big trouble

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:A timely hundred from Jason Roy for Surrey against Middlesex today....Mr Vince's bottom just got a tad warmer....

Meanwhile - and this just might be relevant as to who has the gloves in the not too distant future - an undefeated 53 so far for Ben Foakes in Surrey's CC match against Middlesex. He's batted very well with the tail and got us near to 400. Different format I appreciate but he was on fire behind the stumps in the RL 50 win over the same opponents on Tuesday.

A very poor day for England but that last ball should lift spirits and maybe just keep us in it.

All about limiting Pakistan's lead now - what would we settle for from here? Perhaps a deficit no greater than 110? Feel greater than that will make things incredibly difficult for us even with the presumed advantage of bowling last.

Anyway, great credit to Pakistan's batsmen. Not often exciting but massive grit and concentration - exactly what was needed.

That wicket just about keeps England in it. England have won a few games from similar positions over the year ie the opposition getting near with plenty of wickets left. Trent Bridge 2011 and vs NZ last year spring to mind

Broad needs to step up I feel, he hasn't taken many wickets all summer