South Africa v Ireland, 11 June

First topic message reminder :

        
SOUTH AFRICA v IRELAND
11 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
DHL Newlands, Cape Town

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

22 Played 22
16 Won 5
1 Drawn 1
5 Lost 16
422 Points 277

B. Recent Form

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi 17 Trevor Nyakane 18 Julian Redelinghuys 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit 20 Warren Whiteley 21 Rudy Paige 22 Elton Jantjies 23 Jesse Kriel

IRELAND

J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, L Marshall, K Earls; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, M Ross; I Henderson, D Toner; CJ Stander, J Murphy, J Heaslip

Replacements: S Cronin, F Bealham, T Furlong, U Dillane, R Ruddock, K Marmion, I Madigan, C Gilroy.

News from SA - courtesy of News24

Cape Town - Faf de Klerk is likely to be the only newcomer to the Springbok starting team to face Ireland in the first Test at Newlands on Saturday.

If proceedings at Monday’s training session at Belhar Rugby Club were anything to go by, then the Lions scrumhalf will be the only player in the Springbok starting team that did not feature in the Heyneke Meyer era.

Pieter-Steph du Toit trained at full pace after being cleared of a hamstring injury, but it appears new coach Allister Coetzee will start with Eben Etzebeth and Lood de Jager in the second row, with Du Toit on the bench.

Frans Malherbe is likely to start at tighthead prop ahead of Julian Redelinghuys, while overseas-based Boks, Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw, should start in the loose trio.

Flyhalf Elton Jantjies, who is struggling with a finger injury, will only be exposed to contact on Thursday and it is therefore likely that Pat Lambie will run out as De Klerk's halfback partner.

Lionel Mapoe and Damian de Allende could form the centre pairing, while Lwazi Mvovo should start at left wing in place of the absent Bryan Habana’s.

Possible Springbok starting XV - via Netwerk24:

15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Biltong wrote: it appears new coach Allister Coetzee will start with Eben Etzebeth and Lood de Jager in the second row...

I stopped reading at this...yikes ...

That's a monster pack. Backrow isn't the most fluid. It was the team to a man though what I expected to see.
Vermeulen aside though it lacks strike runners. Louw and Kolisi aren't seen as such. Strauss loses a lot in contact. Lood is ok, Eben gets upended a lot as he is about 100kg waist up, 20kg waist down. I reckon De Allende will do a lot of the carrying.

rodders wrote:

Biltong wrote: it appears new coach Allister Coetzee will start with Eben Etzebeth and Lood de Jager in the second row...

I stopped reading at this...yikes ...

They had a fight 10 days ago mind. As likely to kick off against each other as they are vs. Toner. I think Toner can upset Eben a lot actually.

Pieter Steph Du Toit is back fit? That's a miraculous recovery, he was ruled out for the whole series wasn't he

I thought De Allende was more of a stepper than an outright carrier, for that role Serfontein is the better option for me and has been in better form

De Jager is bok of 2015. I'd take him over Eben myself.

I would love to see an Irish 2nd row of Toner,Dillane then Henderson Stander,Heaslip back row .Jackson and Olding at 10 and 12 with Henshaw and Payne at 13 and 15 or the other way round ,it doesn't really matter.
I also hope either Bealham or Furlong can make real progress towards replacing Ross,he's been a great player for us but we need someone to step up soon.

fa0019 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Biltong wrote: it appears new coach Allister Coetzee will start with Eben Etzebeth and Lood de Jager in the second row...

I stopped reading at this...yikes ...

They had a fight 10 days ago mind. As likely to kick off against each other as they are vs. Toner. I think Toner can upset Eben a lot actually.

Wasn't really a fight

Lood questioned the pecking order and Eben just set him straight

Biltong wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Biltong wrote: it appears new coach Allister Coetzee will start with Eben Etzebeth and Lood de Jager in the second row...

I stopped reading at this...yikes ...

They had a fight 10 days ago mind. As likely to kick off against each other as they are vs. Toner. I think Toner can upset Eben a lot actually.

Wasn't really a fight

Lood questioned the pecking order and Eben just set him straight

For Eben that was a hug with his dad.

He's not as hard as he reckons he is though. I don't doubt some fat prop will chin him one soon enough and knock him out cold... probably some 5'11 120kg Argentine prop. He has too much front without laying down the law Bakkies, Jonno, Kobus style.

BamBam wrote:Pieter Steph Du Toit is back fit? That's a miraculous recovery, he was ruled out for the whole series wasn't he

I thought De Allende was more of a stepper than an outright carrier, for that role Serfontein is the better option for me and has been in better form

Serfontein has been ruled out of the series with a wrist injury.

Yeah I am under the impression that Serfontein has been in better form, but I think de Allende is the incumbent now that de villiers is retired

Biltong wrote:Yeah I am under the impression that Serfontein has been in better form, but I think de Allende is the incumbent now that de villiers is retired

Serfontein is not all action like De Allende and well to be truthful, in addition he ticks SARU's additional box (even though pappie & mom deny it so).

I can't see us beating that South African team- just too powerful up front. We have a few forwards who are really good but all in all that pack is a cut above. Since O'Connell retired you realise what a huge part he was of us being able to mix it with packs like that.

I hope Faf de Klerk has a really good game so Ruan Pienaar will never be recalled and he can focus on Ulster

I think if you look at our tour selection I'm quite impressed with our pack - despite Healy, O'Mahoney and O'Brien being absent it is very strong.

We've also good rotational options in the back 5.

What worries me is that only we have pretty good talent in the backs, it will be very inexperienced and we'll have some untested combinations out there so guys will be on a steep learning curve.

I think we can win 2-1 though

Ruan?  The man on the phone 24 hours a day now telling his teammates how Paddy ticks?

Ireland are simply going to have to attempt to play a game that hasn't been their main gameplan to date.  The limitations of our beef (always) constantly tell us that mixing it in the physical spaces with the big teams just isn't on.  It might win some games, but generally with some heavy prices to pay in injuries.
We have to evolve.  Loose, fast, offload - hope.  Another testing ground for such a definitive evolution statement is there now.  

Hope we're not disappointed again as we see our team sit back in defence on something slim as the South Africans crank up their machine into the second half.

I think we'll boot the leather off the ball.

Oh Dear......................

Farewell and adieu................

3 hits up the middle, followed by a box kick and chase. They won't know what hit them.

If we need to mix it up we can kick it to row z.

rodders wrote:3 hits up the middle, followed by a box kick and chase. They won't know what hit them.

If we need to mix it up we can kick it to row z.

stop the press..... did you steal Warren Gatlands "big book of rugby secrets"????

Warren stole it from us.

rodders wrote:3 hits up the middle, followed by a box kick and "chase". They won't know what hit them.

If we need to mix it up we can kick it to row z.

as they say in all good 606 threads....corrected that for you

Notch wrote:I hope Faf de Klerk has a really good game so Ruan Pienaar will never be recalled and he can focus on Ulster

From your mouth to God's ears

SecretFly wrote:Warren stole it from us.  

Here now, in fairness Gats came up with the "give the ball to Jamie Roberts move" himself.

Jamie don't kick though. Em............... Jamie often gets through too - something else that's different between Wales and Ireland

But we invented giving a ball to a nine that wants to box-kick all day - as the supposed 'chasers' have a fag break whilst waiting for the ball to come back down their way with interest.

The Easterbunny has let slip that Stander, Roux and Strauss will all be involved this weekend.

rodders wrote:The Easterbunny has let slip that Stander, Roux and Strauss will all be involved this weekend.

That means 18 South Africans vs 12 Irishmen, hardly fair on the South Africans, eh?

Biltong wrote:

rodders wrote:The Easterbunny has let slip that Stander, Roux and Strauss will all be involved this weekend.

That means 18 South Africans vs 12 Irishmen, hardly fair on the South Africans, eh?

I recall when Strauss first faced the boks. They tore into him from the kickoff. I can imagine it would be similar to Stander... I hope he ain't standing back to receive any kick chases.... I say hope he ain't, probably hope he does to be truthful!

fa0019 wrote:

Biltong wrote:

rodders wrote:The Easterbunny has let slip that Stander, Roux and Strauss will all be involved this weekend.

That means 18 South Africans vs 12 Irishmen, hardly fair on the South Africans, eh?

I recall when Strauss first faced the boks. They tore into him from the kickoff. I can imagine it would be similar to Stander... I hope he ain't standing back to receive any kick chases.... I say hope he ain't, probably hope he does to be truthful!

Yeah, there are certain players you want clobbered when they turn, Stander is one of them.

Biltong wrote:

rodders wrote:The Easterbunny has let slip that Stander, Roux and Strauss will all be involved this weekend.

That means 18 South Africans vs 12 Irishmen, hardly fair on the South Africans, eh?

Well given the IRB is based in Dublin hopefully we'll have the ref and tmo ....

rodders wrote:

Biltong wrote:

rodders wrote:The Easterbunny has let slip that Stander, Roux and Strauss will all be involved this weekend.

That means 18 South Africans vs 12 Irishmen, hardly fair on the South Africans, eh?

Well given the IRB is based in Dublin hopefully we'll have the ref and tmo  ....

Meh.

Yeah, and every time he's clobbered, he becomes a little more 'Irish' with every hit We love the auld feud to get our combative juices flowing. The more of a fist fight it is or becomes, the more the boys will feel right at home.

South African players should slap Stander on the back and welcome him home with big smiles. That might do the trick better.

Oh no, there won't be any fists, just a very hearty tackle into the rib cage every time he touches the ball

Biltong wrote:Oh no, there won't be any fists, just a very hearty tackle into the rib cage every time he touches the ball

Oh if that persists, Bilt, there'll be fists - maybe not SA ones originally but the Irish boys will be encouraged to take it personal like by the coaches....

That's why Schmidt is a smart man if, as Rodders says, he's sending three of them out in the first game.

There is a strong rumour doing the rounds that Schmidt is gone (back to NZ) after this tour.

Ah, the good old days  




Still lost though

We could do with a few Paddy Johns/Brennan type players.

Sin é wrote:There is a strong rumour doing the rounds that Schmidt is gone (back to NZ) after this tour.

Not surprised, Ireland is going down the pan, only a disgruntled ex-baby bok would stick the place.

Sin é wrote:There is a strong rumour doing the rounds that Schmidt is gone (back to NZ) after this tour.

Well that's not likely to be a bet lost either way as he'd be heading home for a break anyway it might be assumed.

Well, if it's true that he's gone then ............. well, what the hell can you say? Is it to prepare for accepting the Lions role or back to a club in New Zealand?

He'll certainly be missed by all of us...................................... ........................ won't he. Love has been in the air.

Sin é wrote:There is a strong rumour doing the rounds that Schmidt is gone (back to NZ) after this tour.

I dunno did I post it before but about a month back I was browsing the (NZ) silverfern forum and looking at the new Crusaders coach thread and someone mentioned that he had heard from a reliable source that Schmidt had sent in his CV. So with all the hype now, I'd say he could be off alright.

Sin é wrote:There is a strong rumour doing the rounds that Schmidt is gone (back to NZ) after this tour.

Despite his detractors, we're absolutely screwed if that happens. We'll not get in another coach of similar quality right away. They'll probably give it to Farrell ffs.

Or they could give it to Kiss, hence completely screwing Ulster up just when we've got some stability.

A bit to soon to throw the job to Rassie.... I would though if I were the IRFU and Schmidt left.

Munchkin wrote:Ah, the good old days  




Still lost though

We could do with a few Paddy Johns/Brennan type players.

Yeah, the good ole' days. I rather miss them to be honest

When you still win the match and the fight

Biltong wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Ah, the good old days  




Still lost though

We could do with a few Paddy Johns/Brennan type players.

Yeah, the good ole' days. I rather miss them to be honest

When you still win the match and the fight

Yes, you did win the game

Munchkin wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Ah, the good old days  




Still lost though

We could do with a few Paddy Johns/Brennan type players.

Yeah, the good ole' days. I rather miss them to be honest

When you still win the match and the fight

Yes, you did win the game

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:There is a strong rumour doing the rounds that Schmidt is gone (back to NZ) after this tour.

Despite his detractors, we're absolutely screwed if that happens. We'll not get in another coach of similar quality right away. They'll probably give it to Farrell ffs.

Or they could give it to Kiss, hence completely screwing Ulster up just when we've got some stability.

Not sure about that, Foley is available in September.

Sin é wrote:There is a strong rumour doing the rounds that Schmidt is gone (back to NZ) after this tour.

He is contracted until 2017. It would be more probable that he is taking a year out for Lions duty, returning to coach Ireland until 2019. That's based on what Nucifora has recently suggested.

I'm not so sure Munch.  He has said that any decision he makes will not be rugby based and he has seemed pretty animated whenever he was speaking about it recently - as if a decision had already been made and that he's just awaiting the right time to announce it.

So to me it seems the Lions would be a rugby based decision and, of course, being a Lions coach wouldn't require him to up sticks dramatically with his family and talk about non-rugby based decisions.  He could still be based out of Ireland for much of a Lions period.

So it seems to me that he's on the move probably back home as I feared he might do after 3 years.  He seems to get an itch for new horizons at the end of each three year period.  

I'll be happy if it's just a rumour but his body language seems to suggest not.

Ok let's say he's going. Who do we want to replace him and who do you think we could get?

Pat lam?
Stewie of the house of Lancaster?
Shaun Edwards?
Who's the NZ assistant? (Can't remember his name)
What about a set up of Bernard Jackman, ROG and Paulie?

I'm not going to jinx all my hope by getting involved in that one yet, carpet I still think Joe was the guy to take us to the next world cup and, together with all the Provincial coaches and Nucifora, set us up for it.

Not feeling good about this at all.

Pat Lam will be the fans' favourite. That's of course another hint that Nucifora popped out recently when he said Joe's successor is already in the system. Kiss or Lam.

SecretFly wrote:I'm not so sure Munch.  He has said that any decision he makes will not be rugby based and he has seemed pretty animated whenever he was speaking about it recently - as if a decision had already been made and that he's just awaiting the right time to announce it.

So to me it seems the Lions would be a rugby based decision and, of course, being a Lions coach wouldn't require him to up sticks dramatically with his family and talk about non-rugby based decisions.  He could still be based out of Ireland for much of a Lions period.

So it seems to me that he's on the move probably back home as I feared he might do after 3 years.  He seems to get an itch for new horizons at the end of each three year period.  

I'll be happy if it's just a rumour but his body language seems to suggest not.

Well, I'm a big believer in reading body language, but I didn't see the interview. You may well be right, Fly. I know he said that he wasn't going to make a decision until he talked things over with his mother and, thinking a bit more about it, it makes sense. Schmidt could well move back home for family reasons, and maybe his mother has a large part to play in that. Complete guesswork, and maybe it is just an itch.

I will be really disappointed if he does leave, even if I don't agree with his selections, but family considerations have to take priority. If it's true, and if it's for family reasons, then no complaints.

Nucifora will promote from within the Provinces. So who? For my money, it's either Lam or Kiss. Lam has proven himself at Provincial/Club level, but not international, and he isn't familiar with the Ireland set-up (Not from within). Kiss hasn't proven himself at Provincial/Club, but is very experienced at international level with Ireland.
I would be disappointed for Connacht should they lose Lam, and gutted for Ulster if we lose Kiss.

SecretFly wrote:Pat Lam will be the fans' favourite.  That's of course another hint that Nucifora popped out recently when he said Joe's successor is already in the system.  Kiss or Lam.

Please let it be Lam. Please, please, please...