The Ireland Squad Announcement Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the discussion on the 'Ireland 2016 Squad' thread which can be found here.

Ireland squad has been announced. It contains four uncapped players- Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane, Josh van der Flier and CJ Stander. However there is no room for Garry Ringrose. Mike Ross, Cian Healy and Chris Henry have all been omitted due to injury but may feature later as they return to fitness in their provincial set-ups.

Ireland Squad RBS 6 Nations 2016 Rounds 1 & 2

Forwards (19)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)*
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
Nathan White (Connacht)

Backs (16)

Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Stuart McCloskey (McCloskey/Ulster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster)

*Denotes uncapped player

[Pete330v2]

I understand the frustration with Madigan's continued selection but you only have to go back to the last game to see how stretched our backline can get with injuries.

But more significantly Madigan is a first class goalkicker who has always been able to slot over high pressure penalties coming off the bench for Ireland. While Jackson is currently better in virtually every other department, his goalkicking still has a long way to go.

Your out of date Jacksons kicking has been outstanding in the last couple of months.

Jackson cover 10 better
Jackson can cover 12 as well as Madigan.
Zebo can cover 15 at least as well as Madigan

There is not justification for selection Madigan over Jackson

Madigan sells more replica jerseys and looks better on bill boards.

This is true, the only ginger that would beat Madigan was Pauly O'Connell

[BamBam]

I understand the frustration with Madigan's continued selection but you only have to go back to the last game to see how stretched our backline can get with injuries.

But more significantly Madigan is a first class goalkicker who has always been able to slot over high pressure penalties coming off the bench for Ireland. While Jackson is currently better in virtually every other department, his goalkicking still has a long way to go.

Your out of date Jacksons kicking has been outstanding in the last couple of months.

Jackson cover 10 better
Jackson can cover 12 as well as Madigan.
Zebo can cover 15 at least as well as Madigan

There is not justification for selection Madigan over Jackson

Madigan sells more replica jerseys and looks better on bill boards.

With that haircut?

[kunu]

Would have picked Jackson too. But really it won't be the winning or losing of the game for us. If Sexton's injured early, we lose regardless of who steps in I think. Jackson didn't have many answers at all for the England's defence coach's tactics earlier this year. That game probably didn't help his chances.

I have a good feeling about this game though. We're back to our customary "backs against the wall" mindset. Annoying and somewhat pathetic as it is, it's fun to watch the one off games we come out with. Healy and Ross looked good last week, so hopefully that should steady the ship in the area that was mostly responsible for our last 2 results.

It's great to see England looking to return as the villains of NH rugby. We knew it was coming once Hartley got the nod as captain. Eddie Jones knows what he's at.

[Sin é]

Those changes are not ballsy they are forced.

You dont think VDF and Dillane are big calls? He could have went with the more experienced Foley and Ruddock instead. Granted they are the form picks but he could have easily went for the tried and true options.

Nope not really
VDF is playing because we simply could not go into this game without a player who could not play 7 and the only alternative, Henry, simply hasn't been the same player since his heart flutter.
Bit of a stretch to call Foley the experienced option, only 2 caps and only 1 of them a start.
He was looked at 1 1/2 years ago and not played since.
In truth put a kid on the bench instead of someone who Schmidt probably regards as short of international class

Dillane is in his first year of a professional contract. Foley by contrast has been playing for Munster since 2010 granted he's been used sparingly enough with POC and Ryan ahead of him. He has also been in and around the Ireland squads consistently under Schmidt.

Is TOD injured? Thought he played at the weekend.

TOD has a stomach bug
Dillane is seen as a prospect, Foley is 27 and seen as short of the standard required.
Picking the prospect is the logic choice

TOD and Foley are playing against Treviso this weekend.

Foley was never going to play because he was only called up this week. He would have needed to have been in the squad from the start to have been involved.

Bad planning Joe

TOD was dropped because it is just not good PR to have two Munster players in the backrow.

[rodders]

TOD is a bum, a poor man's Willie Falloon... good on you Joe for not bowing to pressure to pick more Munster men, its bad enough you've had to pick Earls and Zebo to keep them happy.

[GunsGerms]

Yeah plus Tommy O'Donnell is almost 29. He is hardly the future. Anyway he is a good player but not a great player. Van Der Flier is more a classic 7 and maybe that's what we need. He is the future.

[GunsGerms]

Anyone voting in the Dublin Bay South constituency? Who are you voting for?

[Notch]

Obviously there is a justification for picking Madigan over Jackson Geoff. I don't agree with what I'm guessing it is, and obviously you don't either, but if there was literally no justification it wouldn't be a decision Schmidt had to make would it? There's no justification for picking, say, Noel Reid at 12 in a game like this. But the difference between Madigan and Jackson is not quite as clear cut and I say that as a critic of Madigan.

Obviously selection is a subjective process with no wrong or right answers, just good results or bad results. As I said I'm not a fan of Madigan at all myself and I feel Jackson is way more likely to produce a better result for the team on balance but Jackson isn't perfect either. He has to prove he can translate recent good form from the tee to international level, his kicking from hand needs to be more consistent, and sometimes his decision making is disappointing. He has all the tools but needs to finesse their deployment. Was particularly frustrated with his decision to keep to a running game from deep in the final moments against Glasgow; we had nothing to gain by scoring a try and much to lose by conceding one. Similarly turning down the points to go for the corner against Scarlets was questionable. It's moments like that which make it possible for another incomplete player to just edge him out in a 50/50 call. Madigan is arguably worse at those things than him, but with a longer record of being a proven goal kicker and the potential to cover 12 more convincingly in an emergency.

That's all focusing on the negatives. Jackson has potential to be a really top class international 10 in my book- his range of passing, reading of the game and ability to organise the men both inside him and outside him is highly impressive. I feel like Jackson is some way off being as good as he ever will be whereas Madigan is probably at his peak. But he does need to keep improving to guarantee he makes the breakthrough. Both players are quite a way off Sexton right now but until Jackson starts closing that gap, which he is well capable of, he isn't an automatic choice for the bench.

[Notch]

Anyone voting in the Dublin Bay South constituency? Who are you voting for?

Paul O'Connell. He'll put the fear of God into the Dáil. He's the man we need, not the man we deserve.

[GunsGerms]

Anyone voting in the Dublin Bay South constituency? Who are you voting for?

Paul O'Connell. He'll put the fear of God into the Dáil. He's the man we need, not the man we deserve.

Haha. Id say Siné will try to shoe horn a few Munster TDs on his south Dublin ballot card.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Obviously there is a justification for picking Madigan over Jackson Geoff. I don't agree with what I'm guessing it is, and obviously you don't either, but if there was literally no justification it wouldn't be a decision Schmidt had to make would it? There's no justification for picking, say, Noel Reid at 12 in a game like this. But the difference between Madigan and Jackson is not quite as clear cut and I say that as a critic of Madigan.

Obviously selection is a subjective process with no wrong or right answers, just good results or bad results. As I said I'm not a fan of Madigan at all myself and I feel Jackson is way more likely to produce a better result for the team on balance but Jackson isn't perfect either. He has to prove he can translate recent good form from the tee to international level, his kicking from hand needs to be more consistent, and sometimes his decision making with the ball is poor. He has all the tools but needs to finesse their deployment. Was particularly frustrated with his decision to keep to a running game from deep in the final moments against Glasgow; we had nothing to gain by scoring a try and much to lose by conceding one. It's moments like that which make it possible to just edge him out. Madigan is arguably worse at times, but with a longer record of being a proven goal kicker and the potential to cover 12 more convincingly in an emergency.

That's all focusing on the negatives. Jackson has potential to be a really top class international 10 in my book- his range of passing, reading of the game and ability to organise the men both inside him and outside him is highly impressive. I feel like Jackson is some way off being as good as he ever will be whereas Madigan is probably at his peak. But he does need to keep improving to guarantee he makes the breakthrough. Both players are quite a way off Sexton right now but until Jackson starts closing that gap, which he is well capable of, he isn't an automatic choice for the bench.

Were it up to me Jackson would definitely be ahead of Madigan,it feels like Schmidt is backing Madigan to play to the level he did v France in the WC.I don't think it's the right call personally and would love to see Jackson get more exposure at this level as I think he's going to be our 10 for the next WC and a long time beyond (injuries permitting).

[geoff999rugby]

Obviously there is a justification for picking Madigan over Jackson Geoff. .

of course there is - he wears blue

[SecretFly]

What I don't want to see is a few of the 'new' boys come off the field as absolute heros, having put in monumental performances of maturity, savvy, invention, trickery, skulduggery, power, pace and bloody-mindedness.

If that all happens, we'll be in a bad place, the omens will not be right... our 'bright' future will be already be consigned to the nearest bin.
We all know what happened when Zebo did the back-heel wonder.........

So I want no showboating just a nice pleasant not-too-painful loss..... then at least we might be on to something special in the next few years.....

[asoreleftshoulder]

Obviously there is a justification for picking Madigan over Jackson Geoff. .

of course there is - he wears blue

Lol you're beginning to sound like Sin é.

[Sin é]

Anyone voting in the Dublin Bay South constituency? Who are you voting for?

I'm in that constitutency. Not enthused about voting for any of that lot.

I've met Jim O'Callaghan and seems sound enough except he is fianna Fail.
Chris Andrews joined Sinn Fein
Lucinda is Lucinda
Maybe Eamon Ryan

edit: Guns, bet you are voting Fine Gael

[Sin é]

Yeah plus Tommy O'Donnell is almost 29. He is hardly the future. Anyway he is a good player but not a great player. Van Der Flier is more a classic 7 and maybe that's what we need. He is the future.

Hopefully he is as SOB isn't going to be around much with his injury record. Think he has gone the way of Leamy and Ferris.

[SecretFly]

Eamon Ryan....?

We have to have more technology (and all the oil and electricity and plastic and greenhouse gas it uses and abuses) to build up our windmill stock to give us the clean air for the fields with no cattle in because they schit too much and therefore will be free for cheap housing for the masses because increasing urbanisation and cementing in natural landscapes under roads streets and buildings does not add to the greenhouse gas effect..... and (drawing a brief breath)... yis will have to pay more now for the green bins because the recycling companies aren't making enough money out of the stuff yous all have to put in them, which is your property and yis should be getting paid to send it to recycling rather than the other way round....

so vote for MEEEE  I'm carbon free  .... but still spew out a lot of gas......................

[GunsGerms]

Anyone voting in the Dublin Bay South constituency? Who are you voting for?

I'm in that constitutency. Not enthused about voting for any of that lot.

I've met Jim O'Callaghan and seems sound enough except he is fianna Fail.
Chris Andrews joined Sinn Fein
Lucinda is Lucinda
Maybe Eamon Ryan

edit: Guns, bet you are voting Fine Gael

Actually I am going to vote Eamon Ryan too. I am torn on Jim O'Callaghan but probably wont vote for him because he is Miriam's brother and we probably wont hear the end of it if he gets in.

I do lean towards Fine Gael so maybe Kate O'Connell as well.

In our constituency we also have a self proclaimed bisexual, former IRA member and porn star who believes that ISIS are hatching a plan to attack Pantibar. I might vote for William DJ Gorman too for the laugh.

If you want a laugh read his manifesto:

http://www.thegormanplan.com/manifesto.html

Whackjob!!! This guy is as nuts as Munster fans.

[Sin é]

Holy smoke. He tells us he has had sex 3,000+ times

[SecretFly]

Camera Shy basterde is old DJ....is there anything against Canon in his manifesto?

[Notch]

Holy smoke. He tells us he has had sex 3,000+ times

Then why does he seem so stressed out

[SecretFly]

Holy smoke. He tells us he has had sex 3,000+ times

Then why does he seem so stressed out

.

You try having sex 3,000 times and see how bubbly you are after it Notch Gotta protect those bodily fluids - didn't Dr Strangeglove teach you nuffing???

[Notch]

It wasn't all at once as far as I can gather!

Reading that guys website, I feel sorry for him; he seems ultimately like a slightly damaged, vulnerable person and maybe putting himself into the public eye isn't the best thing for him.

[SecretFly]

I'm not certain he's real......

.... elaborate p-I-ss take by some developing 'humourist' ?

If real, he needs mental help and guidance.

[lostinwales]

Holy smoke. He tells us he has had sex 3,000+ times

And then he switched to the other hand?

[Pot Hale]

He may get elected yet... going by the exit polls

[Notch]

He may get elected yet... going by the exit polls

Thats more of an indictment of the state of our entire social and economic system in general right?

[Rory_Gallagher]

Well, despite the disappointment of the loss, there were some things to be very excited about regarding the future. The debutants performed very well in my opinion and did not look one bit out of place. The wonderful break from Dillane and link play between himself and van der Flier was a sign of things to come.

Dillane and van der Flier in particular looked totally at home against one of the most physical packs in world rugby. What a debut for the two of them. Both deserve to start the remaining games and need as much game time at this level as possible. VDF topped the tackle count as expected but needs to work on his technique at the breakdown and avoid silly penalties. His only penalty led to one of the English tries but I think that experience will only help with this sort of decision making. He also should been awarded a try but it was controversially denied.

I felt a bit for McCloskey as his inside men were throwing some very poor passes and making the wrong decisions throughout the game. He rarely had a chance to do what he has become known for at Ulster. However he did the basics well (unlike the rest of his teammates) and he was solid in defence. I think it was a poor decision to take him off later in the game and I hope he is retained for the next game where I would partner him alongside Jared Payne.

Henshaw had a mixed game at 13 I thought. He did some things very well but the basics were lacking. His cameos in broken play were exciting and may point to his future at fullback. I certainly thought we missed Jared Payne both in defence and attack where it is clear he is essential for his decision making and basic execution. I would keep him there, blood in the new options at 12 and then consider the future beyond.

[carpet baboon]

Right
Well our passing first half was terrible.
Our exit our off our22 what the Frak?
Murray s box of cks were dreadfully wrong.
Trimble looked foooooked from min 1
Our best 8 is playing 6 but all our 6sare injured.
Why did. Henshaw keep stepping I. At 12?

On the plus
Henshaw looked goodvat 13
Ultan looked good
Our scrum was on top and .unlucky not that have a couple of hem binned
Kearney tackled likeca full back
Earls looked lively
McCloskey looked good

[Notch]

I want to see this McCloskey-Henshaw combo persisted with now. I thinks e should give them time to grow since the tournament is over for us and Payne has an age profile that means he probably won't feature in the next RWC.

Also, mod hat on, I'll probably lock this thread in a few hours and open a new one.

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