Champions Cup Pool 5: RC Toulon v Leinster, 13 December

First topic message reminder :

           
RC Toulonnais v Leinster Rugby
Sunday 13 December 2015
KO: 16:15
Stade Félix Mayol, Toulon

Live on FR2 / Sky Sports / beIN Sports

Referee Nigel Owens (Wales)
Touch Judge 1 Gwyn Morris (Wales)
Touch Judge 2 Wayne Davies (Wales)
Fourth Official Derek Bevan (Wales)
TMO Derek Bevan (Wales)
Assessor John Sheehan (Ireland)
Citing Commissioner John Byett (England)

A. Head to Head

2 Played 2
2 Wins 0
0 Losses 2
0 Draws 0
54 Points 34

B. Recent Form

19 April 2015
Toulon 25 - 20 Leinster

6 April 2014
Toulon 29-14 Leinster:

C. Teams

RC Toulonnais

15. Delon Armitage; 14. Bryan Habana, 13. Mathieu Bastareaud, 12. Ma'a Nonu, 11. Drew Mitchell; 10. Matt Giteau, 9. Eric Escande; 1. Florian Fresia, 2. Guilhem Guirado, 3. Matt Stevens, 4. Samu Manoa, 5. Romain Taofifenua, 6. Mamuka Gorgodze, 7. Steffon Armitage, 8. Duane Vermeulen

16. Anthony Etrillard, 17. Xavier Chiocci, 18. Levan Chilachava, 19. Juan Smith, 20. Tom Taylor, 21. Maxime Mermoz, 22. Anthony Meric, 23. Jocelino Suta

Leinster Rugby

15. Rob Kearney; 14. Fergus McFadden, 13. Ben Te'o, 12. Luke Fitzgerald, 11. Isa Nacewa; 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Isaac Boss; 1. Cian Healy, 2. Richardt Strauss, 3. Mike Ross, 4. Devin Toner, 5. Mike McCarthy, 6. Rhys Ruddock, 7. Josh Van Der Flier, 8. Jamie Heaslip

16. Sean Cronin, 17. Jack McGrath, 18. Martin Moore, 19. Tom Denton, 20. Jordi Murphy, 21. Eoin Reddan, 22. Ian Madigan, 23. Dave Kearney

"Turnover is fair" player is playing the ball on his head

Well done Toulon and Owens i guess.

Sexton is not going to be popular with his team-mates. The number of hospital passes he's done today!

Leinster getting schooled here. Except for a few set plays they look utterly devoid of ideas.

Armitage completes the victory in style. Toulon haven't been great, but they haven't had to be.

No doubt Leo's first adjective will be "disappointing". And will the fans with laptop journos have the guts to ask why sexton played the whole game and Madigan comes on with 3 minutes to go

Happy enough with the progress we've shown.The longer Cullen has the players the better we get,our defense has improved but still a lot of work to do on skills.

Cullen is raising us out of the hole MoC left us in and it'll take him some time but next season I expect us to be a threat again.

Sad to see Leinster go out this early, also a very strange feeling. That said, the were the instigators of their own down fall.

Discipline was poor even if I feel that Owen's was very generous towards Toulon at the breakdown.

Sexton really should have been hauled off after 30mins and Madigan brought on (even at half time it would have been better).

Congrats to Toulon, just a better side but Leinster did have some chances.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Happy enough with the progress we've shown.The longer Cullen has the players the better we get,our defense has improved but still a lot of work to do on skills.

Cullen is raising us out of the hole MoC left us in and it'll take him some time but next season I expect us to be a threat again.

Sorry asls but that's dreamland stuff

Who won MOTM? Please don't tell me it was Steffon Armitage. He is a classic poacher, minimum effort and maximum reward. He is very good at it though, I will give him that.

Just seen the Healy replay. Ouch. He tried several times to connect with the knee there.

Citing? Or was it already dealt with by Owens so it can't be upgraded?

Cyril wrote:Sexton is not going to be popular with his team-mates. The number of hospital passes he's done today!

Leinster getting schooled here. Except for a few set plays they look utterly devoid of ideas.

Armitage completes the victory in style. Toulon haven't been great, but they haven't had to be.

Getting schooled? Owens was the difference between both sides and in the last 10 Leinster heads dropped when the result was never in doubt.

Cyril wrote:Just seen the Healy replay. Ouch. He tried several times to connect with the knee there.

Citing? Or was it already dealt with by Owens so it can't be upgraded?

Probably deserves to be cited. Sheer stupidity at best and potential malice at worst.

VinceWLB wrote:

Cyril wrote:Sexton is not going to be popular with his team-mates. The number of hospital passes he's done today!

Leinster getting schooled here. Except for a few set plays they look utterly devoid of ideas.

Armitage completes the victory in style. Toulon haven't been great, but they haven't had to be.

Getting schooled? Owens was the difference between both sides and in the last 10 Leinster heads dropped when the result was never in doubt.

Hmmm.

brennomac wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Happy enough with the progress we've shown.The longer Cullen has the players the better we get,our defense has improved but still a lot of work to do on skills.

Cullen is raising us out of the hole MoC left us in and it'll take him some time but next season I expect us to be a threat again.

Sorry asls but that's dreamland stuff

Well we'll have to wait and see.I see real progree in the team and Cullen has only had access to his frontline players for about 6 weeks.There's no shame in losing to Toulon and we frustrated them for large parts of the game.Sexton had a mare which won't happen every time so I think by this time next year the team will be much improved.

We also have lads like Ringrose,Marsh and van der Flier who will be much improved with a full season under their belts and there are more young talents coming through.I am definitely optimistic as I'm judging Cullen on progress made from a very low point.

Entirely expected result.

Toulon looked tired at the end and still managed to score. Leinster were woeful.

Sexton is completely out of form and not liking being in a losing team - he's sulking out there. Does Cullen have the guts to drop him and bring in Madigan for the game next week in Lansdowne Road?

Bring through some of the academy players and young guns for the remaining euro games.

Next.

Pot Hale wrote:Entirely expected result.

Toulon looked tired at the end and still managed to score.  Leinster were woeful.

Sexton is completely out of form and not liking being in a losing team - he's sulking out there.  Does Cullen have the guts to drop him and bring in Madigan for the game next week in Lansdowne Road?

Bring through some of the academy players and young guns for the remaining euro games.

Next.

Of course he doesn't like being in a losing team but he's hardly sulking,where do you get that.He had a bad game,it happens to loads of players.

Vince, behave will you!!

How can you say with a straight face that the loss was down to Owens.

Sexton had a poor game, passing and kicking from hand. Breakdown was poor from Leinster too

I don't think that Leinster as a team were woeful Pot Hale, I think that their defence was very good. Too me it was Sexton who was the weak link, normally at the heart of all things good for Leinster but today he was at the heart of all things bad.

That and I do feel that Toulon got a very easy time at the breakdown. Toulon are certainly the better team but I feel the score does not represent just how close it was.

Had Sexton kicked that penalty for a 10-12 lead, things may have been different.

eirebilly wrote:I don't think that Leinster as a team were woeful Pot Hale, I think that their defence was very good. Too me it was Sexton who was the weak link, normally at the heart of all things good for Leinster but today he was at the heart of all things bad.

That and I do feel that Toulon got a very easy time at the breakdown. Toulon are certainly the better team but I feel the score does not represent just how close it was.

Had Sexton kicked that penalty for a 10-12 lead, things may have been different.

I don't think we could ever have won,we're not far enough down the track but we were trying to do a lot of the right things just skills letting us down.I think we'll see that improve as the players get used to playing at pace and using width again,a lot of these players haven't played that way in 2 years.

nathan wrote:Vince, behave will you!!

How can you say with a straight face that the loss was down to Owens.

Sexton had a poor game, passing and kicking from hand. Breakdown was poor from Leinster too

Sexton apart, all Leinster players showed up well and there was not much between the sides, despite the 10 millions difference in players wages.

How can anyone says Leinster got schooled is beyond me.

Who said they got schooled? It was you who said the loss was down to Owens and not leinsters fault

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Entirely expected result.

Toulon looked tired at the end and still managed to score.  Leinster were woeful.

Sexton is completely out of form and not liking being in a losing team - he's sulking out there.  Does Cullen have the guts to drop him and bring in Madigan for the game next week in Lansdowne Road?

Bring through some of the academy players and young guns for the remaining euro games.

Next.

Of course he doesn't like being in a losing team but he's hardly sulking,where do you get that.He had a bad game,it happens to loads of players.

Because he does. Today is another bad game on top of a quite a few he's had. I think Racing are breathing a sigh of relief that they offloaded him when they did.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

brennomac wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Happy enough with the progress we've shown.The longer Cullen has the players the better we get,our defense has improved but still a lot of work to do on skills.

Cullen is raising us out of the hole MoC left us in and it'll take him some time but next season I expect us to be a threat again.

Sorry asls but that's dreamland stuff

Well we'll have to wait and see.I see real progree in the team and Cullen has only had access to his frontline players for about 6 weeks.There's no shame in losing to Toulon and we frustrated them for large parts of the game.Sexton had a mare which won't happen every time so I think by this time next year the team will be much improved.

We also have lads like Ringrose,Marsh and van der Flier who will be much improved with a full season under their belts and there are more young talents coming through.I am definitely optimistic as I'm judging Cullen on progress made from a very low point.

Agree with almost everything you've said.

Disappointed with Cullen in starting Healy and letting Sexton play the full the game though.
Would expect a full strength squad in the aviva with the youngsters getting some game time in the final two rounds.

It was unfortunate that Luke McGrath was injured, it would have been a good experience for him. Were very short in the second row. Toners is the only top drawer player there. Triggs (havent seen enough of hin really) and McCarthy are solid pro 12 players and Denton isn't even that. Hopefully Molony can push on and get some decent game time this year.


Looking a lot more inventive comapred to last year anyway .

nathan wrote:Who said they got schooled? It was you who said the loss was down to Owens and not leinsters fault

Cyril said that, 2nd post of this page.

eirebilly wrote:I don't think that Leinster as a team were woeful Pot Hale, I think that their defence was very good. Too me it was Sexton who was the weak link, normally at the heart of all things good for Leinster but today he was at the heart of all things bad.

That and I do feel that Toulon got a very easy time at the breakdown. Toulon are certainly the better team but I feel the score does not represent just how close it was.

Had Sexton kicked that penalty for a 10-12 lead, things may have been different.

There's about as much invention and trickery in the Leinster backline as a Citroen Deux Chevaux. Pass it wide, pass it wide, pass...oh look we're in touch.

Defence may be good but I can still read 24 on the opposing team's scoreboard. And 3 penalties for Leinster.

VinceWLB wrote:

nathan wrote:Who said they got schooled? It was you who said the loss was down to Owens and not leinsters fault

Cyril said that, 2nd post of this page.

My comment has about the last 5-10 minutes when they were getting schooled in the breakdown. I wasn't referring to the whole game.

Pot Hale wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Entirely expected result.

Toulon looked tired at the end and still managed to score.  Leinster were woeful.

Sexton is completely out of form and not liking being in a losing team - he's sulking out there.  Does Cullen have the guts to drop him and bring in Madigan for the game next week in Lansdowne Road?

Bring through some of the academy players and young guns for the remaining euro games.

Next.

Of course he doesn't like being in a losing team but he's hardly sulking,where do you get that.He had a bad game,it happens to loads of players.

Because he does.   Today is another bad game on top of a quite a few he's had.  I think Racing are breathing a sigh of relief that they offloaded him when they did.

Quality debate there,hard to argue with that kind of playground logic.

Pot Hale wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I don't think that Leinster as a team were woeful Pot Hale, I think that their defence was very good. Too me it was Sexton who was the weak link, normally at the heart of all things good for Leinster but today he was at the heart of all things bad.

That and I do feel that Toulon got a very easy time at the breakdown. Toulon are certainly the better team but I feel the score does not represent just how close it was.

Had Sexton kicked that penalty for a 10-12 lead, things may have been different.

There's about as much invention and trickery in the Leinster backline as a Citroen Deux Chevaux.  Pass it wide, pass it wide, pass...oh look we're in touch.

Defence may be good but I can still read 24 on the opposing team's scoreboard.  And 3 penalties for Leinster.

I disagree, I see what Leinster were trying to do but the execution was well off due to Sexton miss-firing badly. They got themselves into some very good positions to only let themselves down with poor execution.

We'll for next week all I want to see is some fickung pride and knock Toulon out as well, at this stage if we won't qualify then hope wasps do

Sexton often had poor games for Racing, particularly when their pack were struggling in the set piece. However I cannot recall Sexton ever making as many unforced errors in a single match as this one. He looks out of sorts and with the changes in coaching staff and personnel I think it may be a long road back for the team to reach the top of the European game.

Owens did favour Toulon at the breakdown today, it wasn't result changing but it did stop Leinster's chances of gaining momentum. Great call on the Teo "late hit", nothing in it. He did miss a tip tackle on Teo which could have been a yellow and maybe changed the game, the cynic in me feels that if a Leinster player did the same thing it would at least get reviewed on the field.

Because Armitage is so short for a top level flanker, he is able to look like he is supporting his body whilst being able to rest his belly on top of the tackled player. I'm not saying this is the only reason he wins all the penalties, but that along with great technique and a low centre of gravity makes him a penalty machine (in a good way). Refs need to start looking at this, just like when they copped onto the elbow trick. I'm not saying he is doing this all the time, but on occasions he is and they should be call against him, not for him.

Sexton played like a drain, not sure what to do about it to be honest. Boss not far behind him.

Defence was good, discipline was shocking, error count too high (mainly from Sexton).

This year is a re-building year, I didn't really expect us to qualify anyway but finishing bottom whilst embarrassing doesn't impact our seeding for next year. I want to young player get the chance to make their mark, and compete for the Pro12.

Healy could end up being cited for that I presume? Stupid of him and deserves any punishment coming his way.

Sexton reminds me of the the NFL running back who always puts up career numbers when they are in contract negotiation seasons, they don't even bother trying when they get their guaranteed paycheck. Should have been pulled at 60 minutes and given Mads the final quarter to do something with the game. Putting a player on with <3 minutes left to play is a motions and stats manoveure.

We were close until the two yellow cards took the life out of us (both cards were deserving in my mind, Owens was telling Toner to get away and just looked at the ref and kept going anyway - what did Dev think would happen!).

Toulon deserved the victory. It's wierd every time I see them play they never look like they are playing to (or above) the sum of their parts, but when you have that top quality a team of 15 on the field, even at 80% each they still turnover sides the majority of times