Training programmes

I have been having a look at the Wendler 5-3-1

Has any of you guys used it? Or any other programmes.

Or do you just do your own training?

Nice to see this place getting some traffic again.

Summer now, and six weeks out from beach season so I've gone High reps, medium weights, supersetting. So it looks something like

Monday: Bis and Tris
Barbell curl (55kg) 1x5 (will hopefully be breaking 60kg next year)
Barbell curls (45kg) 8x4
Skull crushers 30kg 8x4
Hammer curls (30kg) 8x4
Tricep pushdown (75kg) 8*4
preacher curls (40kg) 8*4
overhead Tricep extension (400kg) 8*4
Incline dumbbell curl (20kg) 8x4
close grip bench press (400kg) 8x4

Tuesday
Bench press (90kg) 12x4
lat pull down (105kg) 8x4
decline bench press (75kg) 8x4
seated cable row (98kg) 10x4
incline bench (80kg) 8x4
T bar row (70kg) 10*4
dumbbell flys (35kg per arm) 8x4
pull ups (10kg) 6*4

Wednesday
Squat 135kg 8*5
weighted lunges (24kg kettlebells per Hand) 10m *4
leg extension 70KG 15*4
seated leg press 200KG 10*5
leg curls (52kg) 8x4
single leg leg curls (15-20kg) 8x4
calf raises (150kg) 15*5
donkey calf raise (180kg) 15*5

Thusday - Monday
Friday - Tuesday
Saturday - Watered down version of Wednesday

It's essentially a slightly altered and tapered version of Arnie's supersets.

Also play touch rugby thee to four times a week

Is this likely to turn into another grooming thread, if not, I'm off.

Monday's routine
Up 1,2,3 and down 1,2,3, (then the other eyelid)

Think about how great it would be to be able to rattle off 100 push-ups then do about 33 very rushed poor quality ones cos the wife is screaming at me to come downstairs and help with the kids. Grumble but be secretly grateful cos was struggling with the last three

Go to bathroom, suck in stomach, puff out chest, tense arms and try to ignore spare tyre.
Feel depressed, flex biceps whilst cleaning teeth. Think about people I know who look worse than me and wonder if I should start hanging out with them to make myself look buff in comparison. Go downstairs, get shouted at again.

Repeat Tues, Wed, Thur, Fri

Take weekend off

Is those two instances of 400kg actually 40 kg raf?

Hah, missed those! Yeah both 40kg.

The disturbing thing is that you take the weekend off from cleaning your teeth, Dave

I've used it. I'm using cube method now.

I could write you a good program I got off a world class powerlifter

Whats the routine you got Adam?

My routine is at my desk at work. I will pm you tomorrow with the details.

Basically a 3 day split, which starts off a bit light. The weights go up each of the 12 weeks with a reload threw in now and then.

On top of my head here is my current program.

Week 1

Day 1 Squat 80% max 6 sets 4
. Deadlift 80% 6x2

Day 2 Bench 55%x10,65%10,80%x6-8 reps

Day 3 Squat 70% 8x4
. Deadlift 70% 8x2

Day 4 same as work out 2.

on each upper body day hit chins,dips and biceps.

Lower body day maybe light lunges or leg press.

Week2

Day1 Squat 80%x 6-10 reps. Also squat 3x5 with same weight
. Speed deaflift 55% 8x3

Day 2 Bench 65x10, 70x10, 75x8, 80%x6-8

Day 3 same as day 1

Day4 same as day 2

ok these are first 2 weeks of new program. They are building strength using volume. The percentages get higher each week.not sure of the rest top of my head, but I'm happy to post the rest if you want. If not, it's no problem.

Type in Candito 6 week strength program. You're a strong guy, so you will have better progress with that than 5/3/1.

Candito is a drugfree powerlifting champion. You probably already have heard of him, he has some useful videos on youtube.

Evening all.

I've been on the boards for a while posting in rugby and cricket threads but have only just got back to training after 18 months out due to a shoulder reconstruction so thought I'd pop in here! I'm training for Rugby mainly.

I'm working on a 3 day weights program that I came up with along with our coach. It's a strange mix but I've always struggled for results until I started using the old 20 rep squat workout and 5x5 deadlifts. As such I start each day with a balls to the wall set with either of those.

Monday
20 rep squats - back squat
(5-10 minute rest lightly cycling)
Bench press - 3 x 4-6 reps
Weighted press ups - 3 x 10 reps
Dips - 3 x max
Under hand grip weighted chin up - 3 x max
Romanian deadlifts - 3 x 8-12 reps

Wednesday
Deadlift - 5x5
T-bar row or cable row - 3 sets x 8-12reps
Dumbell row - 3 x 8-12 reps
Wide grip pull ups - 3 x max
Side lateral raises - 3 x 20-25 reps
Nordic hamstring lowers - 3 x 10 reps

Friday
20 rep squats - front squat
(5-10 minute rest lightly cycling)
Push press - 3 x 4-6 reps
Barbell high pull - 3 x 8-12 reps
Seated arnie shoulder press - 3 x 20-25 reps
Good mornings - 3 x 8-12 reps

On Tuesday and Thursday I train with my rugby club. I can't do contact yet so I run non-contact stuff with them (breaks down like interval sprints and lots of cardio) then when the squad goes into contact I do power endurance and agility work. This has been made up of:

- Resistance sprints using a weighted sled
- Resistance jumps and bounds using a weighted vest
- Tyre flips
- Ladder work for agility (don't know an official term for all of it, just do what I'm told)
- Interval sprints on a rowing machine

That's a real mix I know but because the rest of the squad are doing contact work only a few of us are using the equipment at that time so we take advantage.

It looks good man, but 5x5 deadlifts will fry your CNS big style, unless  you have great leverages. That is if you are doing the same weight for all 5 sets.

If it was me I would ramp up the weight each set.

If your main working set is, well lets say 160kg x5

I would go 120x5, 130x5, 140x5, 150x5 and then 160x5.

To be honest I hate sets of 5 for deadlift. However I love sets of 5-10 (or even higher) on squats.

For me I like to work with 1-3 reps on deadlift and sometimes if I'm going for a pb, hit more reps on a particular weight.

Everyone is different, but in my experience and many more people who know a great deal more than me, deadlift should not always be worked to the max. It isn't like squat or bench. Deadlift is the one lift, were not only can you stall, but start to fall way back.

It's only my advice. If it is working for you, then stick at it.

Hi AdamT, cheers for the advice.

I'm already working in a build up as you state with the deadlifts. I've been warned about frying my CNS and causing burn-out by a few people with the 20 rep squats and 5x5 deadlifts but thankfully I haven't had issues yet plus and am still getting results with it. Admittedly it's easier not to destroy yourself with 20 rep squats when I can't squat much though!

By increasing it gradually through the sets I've also been able to work on my double overhand grip strength. I want to start working cleans into my training to increase power. As such I've narrowed my deadlift stance and moved to double overhand grip as much as possible for some trade over between movements.

It was pretty awkward at first but quickly improved. My leverages are one of my few natural strengths so deadlifts are my best lift - all my other lifts are fairly weak hence why I favour body weight exercises that I'm better at and transfer well to rugby.

With the deadlifts I've been increasing set 2 and 3 by 10 kgs and sticking to double overhand without straps and then jump by 20 kg for the fourth set at which point I need straps otherwise my grip fails across 5 reps. For instance my max I went for this morning was 165kg - a new PB for 5x5.

1st set - 120 kg
2nd set - 130 kg
3rd set - 140 kg (double overhand no straps for first 3)
4th set - 160 kg
5th set - 165 kg (double overhand with staps for last 2)

If I were to change from 5x5 (which I'm considering doing once I hit 170 kg) would you advise a pyramid routine with low reps and high weight?

I would advise a pyramid and finish with a heavy set of 1-3 reps on one week.

The next week I would do doubles or triples with speed work. Work between 50-70% of your one rep max for these. Alternate these weeks, to avoid burnout.

Also add in some heavy rack pulls/block pulls once and a while, especially if you fail at lockout. Speed work is great for increasing your power.

Also it would benefit your rugby also. Just keep doing what you're doing, then change if things stall.

Good luck!

I was pumping some iron in the gym yesterday, when the trainer pointed out that the hole in the weights was supposed to be for attaching them to a bar.

seanmichaels wrote:I was pumping some iron in the gym yesterday, when the trainer pointed out that the hole in the weights was supposed to be for attaching them to a bar.

You bloody nitwit!  This is actually a proper forum for discussion, not tomfoolery and shenanigans.

I booked a one to one with a personal trainer the other day with the offer of a free protein drink. Last time I am falling for that one.

Well I did the 5 x 5 routine for 8 weeks.

Mixed results.
Deadlift improved completed 5 x 5 at 200kg
Squats completed 5 x 5 at 170kg
So happy in general.

Having two weeks off then starting the Wendler programme for 6 months.

If your interested in getting your weights and reps up then you can do worse than the 5 x 5 routine....but it gets intense - squatting 3 times a week at that weight, and doing Deads and Squats on the same day twice a week can be brutal!

You're a strong guy. I think I would be about ten or 15 kg off them rep numbers, for 5x5.

Ah im not bad Adam, my bench is poor though...never been a strong point.

We've been doing 5 sets of 20 dips and pull ups aswell....so its a programme that works.

But if I did it again I would tweak the routine. Its tough and too much doing 3 sets of squats a week.

My bench and shoulders are strong. Need to get my lower body up to scratch.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well I did the 5 x 5 routine for 8 weeks.

Mixed results.
Deadlift improved completed 5 x 5 at 200kg
Squats completed 5 x 5 at 170kg
So happy in general.

Having two weeks off then starting the Wendler programme for 6 months.

If your interested in getting your weights and reps up then you can do worse than the 5 x 5 routine....but it gets intense - squatting 3 times a week at that weight, and doing Deads and Squats on the same day twice a week can be brutal!

I thought that Deadlift was only one set due to squatting 3 times per week?

Am in my 4th week of a beginners full body workout and was considering a 5 x5 when I have finished. What are peoples views on it? Good idea for me? I have come across a 5 x 5 routine that actually adds a couple of exercises into it, mainly I think for arms. As far as I remember it was for novice lifters, you guys seem pretty advanced. I'll post it up and hopefully I can get some feedback from you.

I'm currently doing 3/5/1. Basically switch the 1st and 2nd week around. On the first and 3rd week, hit 3+ and 1+, with a couple of heavier singles. On the 5rep week, jut hit the prescribed reps, then some speed week. Only on the second month, but I'm enjoying it.

I'm currently doing a push up. I'm so strong I can type one-handed.

There! Now I'm doing a push up off my other hand.

Switching to 4*2 sets (90% 1RM) end of this month for mass. Never gone so low in my life. Will be interesting to see how it goes

You will love the extra power.

kingraf wrote:Switching to 4*2 sets (90% 1RM) end of this month for mass. Never gone so low in my life. Will be interesting to see how it goes

How long will you be doing this for?

Ok guys as mentioned the other day I am thinking of doing a 5 x 5 program. Its a program you all know but I have seen an adapted one which adds some extra exercises and does it as an A & B routine. It's as follows.

A
Squat 5 x 5
Bench Press 5 x 5
BB Row 5 x 5
BB Shrugs 3 x 8
Skullcrushers 3 x 8
BB Curls 3 x8 or Incline DB curls 3 x 8 or Chin ups 3 x 5-8
Hyper extension 2 x 10
Kneeling Cable Crunches 3 x 10-20

B
Squats 5 x 5
Deadlift 1 X 5
Standing BB Press 5 x 5
BB Row 5 x 5 -10% workout A
Close Grip Bench Press 3 x 8 or Dips
Curls 3 x 8 etc same as workout A
Kneeling Cable Crunches 3 x 10-20

Now as you can see the extras are not actually 5 x 5 but you do the same principal. What are opinions on this? It seems quite a lot and possibly defeats the object of a 5 x 5. Should I do this or stick to a normal 5 x 5?

sohotnot wrote:

kingraf wrote:Switching to 4*2 sets (90% 1RM) end of this month for mass. Never gone so low in my life. Will be interesting to see how it goes

How long will you be doing this for?

ideally twelve weeks. If CNS burnout is heavy, probably 8. Will stick up a program closer to the date

sohotnot wrote:Ok guys as mentioned the other day I am thinking of doing a 5 x 5 program. Its a program you all know but I have seen an adapted one which adds some extra exercises and does it as an A &   B routine. It's as follows.

A
Squat 5 x 5
Bench Press 5 x 5
BB Row 5 x 5
BB Shrugs 3 x 8
Skullcrushers 3 x 8
BB Curls 3 x8 or Incline DB curls 3 x 8 or Chin ups 3 x 5-8
Hyper extension 2 x 10
Kneeling Cable Crunches 3 x 10-20

B
Squats 5 x 5
Deadlift 1 X 5
Standing BB Press 5 x 5
BB Row 5 x 5 -10% workout A
Close Grip Bench Press 3 x 8 or Dips
Curls 3 x 8 etc same as workout A
Kneeling Cable Crunches 3 x 10-20

Now as you can see the extras are not actually 5 x 5 but you do the same principal. What are opinions on this? It seems quite a lot and possibly defeats the object of a 5 x 5. Should I do this or stick to a normal 5 x 5?

I worked on the same principle Workout A and B - 3 days per week.

Once you start to get up in weight.. the key lifts will start and gas you out on their own...not to mention all your other exercises. Plus how much time are you going to be in the gym?

Maybe I'm lazy, but I prefer 3x5. Or if you insist on 5x5, ramp up the sets, to one very heavy one.

I plan to hit some huge lifts these next 12 months. I won't be training harder, but smarter!

I've recently gone back to 5*5 after I plateaued with my old routine.

Had to drop the weight a bit to get the full 5 reps across 5 sets, but loving the change again. Squatting 3 times a week is killer, as is hitting deadlifts after squats, but I'm loving the challenge.

I'm on 130 kg for squats, but hitting a 215kg deadlifts for 1 set of 5 after those which I'm chuffed with.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

sohotnot wrote:Ok guys as mentioned the other day I am thinking of doing a 5 x 5 program. Its a program you all know but I have seen an adapted one which adds some extra exercises and does it as an A &   B routine. It's as follows.

A
Squat 5 x 5
Bench Press 5 x 5
BB Row 5 x 5
BB Shrugs 3 x 8
Skullcrushers 3 x 8
BB Curls 3 x8 or Incline DB curls 3 x 8 or Chin ups 3 x 5-8
Hyper extension 2 x 10
Kneeling Cable Crunches 3 x 10-20

B
Squats 5 x 5
Deadlift 1 X 5
Standing BB Press 5 x 5
BB Row 5 x 5 -10% workout A
Close Grip Bench Press 3 x 8 or Dips
Curls 3 x 8 etc same as workout A
Kneeling Cable Crunches 3 x 10-20

Now as you can see the extras are not actually 5 x 5 but you do the same principal. What are opinions on this? It seems quite a lot and possibly defeats the object of a 5 x 5. Should I do this or stick to a normal 5 x 5?

I worked on the same principle Workout A and B - 3 days per week.

Once you start to get up in weight.. the key lifts will start and gas you out on their own...not to mention all your other exercises. Plus how much time are you going to be in the gym?

This was what was on my mind tbh. I've heard it starts off fairly easy as you begin with 50% of 1rm but as the weights increase it gets harder and you have to rest longer between sets, hence longer in the gym. I think I will just follow the basic one on Stronglifts which I think you do for 12 weeks. I'll probably look to do another full body routine when I've finished, it will be interesting to see how I have progressed strength wise and how I will look at the end.

bluestonevedder wrote:I've recently gone back to 5*5 after I plateaued with my old routine.

Had to drop the weight a bit to get the full 5 reps across 5 sets, but loving the change again. Squatting 3 times a week is killer, as is hitting deadlifts after squats, but I'm loving the challenge.

I'm on 130 kg for squats, but hitting a 215kg deadlifts for 1 set of 5 after those which I'm chuffed with.

Massive difference between squats and deads. If you get your squats up 30-40kg, your deadlift will be really big. 215x5 is very strong.

AdamT wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:I've recently gone back to 5*5 after I plateaued with my old routine.

Had to drop the weight a bit to get the full 5 reps across 5 sets, but loving the change again. Squatting 3 times a week is killer, as is hitting deadlifts after squats, but I'm loving the challenge.

I'm on 130 kg for squats, but hitting a 215kg deadlifts for 1 set of 5 after those which I'm chuffed with.

Massive difference between squats and deads. If you get your squats up 30-40kg, your deadlift will be really big. 215x5 is very strong.

Thanks Adam.

130kg is very low for me to be honest. I dropped the weight significantly when I started the 5*5 as I felt my form was a little off. Compounded by recovering from a knee injury I decided to take the additional time to really work on my form. It's paid dividends so far I think. 130 is very comfortable and I feel my form is better than ever.

Deadlifts have always been a strong point for me. I'm under 6 foot so that always helps! I stopped using straps to improve my forearm strength, so only use chalk now which I much prefer. I also started killing the weight between each rep rather than touching and exploding, which has been monumental for me in getting the weight up.

What weight are you??

AdamT wrote:What weight are you??

98-100kg, depending on whether you weigh me before or after breakfast!

I'm about the same now. Well around 100kg.

AdamT wrote:I'm about the same now. Well around 100kg.

You still trying to put weight on?

No I have been losing weight. I was 110kg not too long ago.

Great effort. What are your lifts like? Have you lost strength with the weight?

I haven't maxed in a while. My reps are similar. I'm doing a slow cut and I can honestly say I think my deadlift is stronger.

I squatted easy 5 with 160 the other night. Also benched 120 for 5. So feel pretty similar.

Really good squat. Congrats on a successful cut.

bluestonevedder wrote:Really good squat. Congrats on a successful cut.

The secret is, I was carrying too much bad weight. To be honest I was never that strong to begin with. I only eat starchy carbs 3- 4 days a week. Obviously around training days. If you lose weight slowly, strength shouldn't be affected by much. I hope I can get near your deadlift. That is a very impressive pull.

Not sure what the obsession is with doing 5 reps of something......5x5x5 etc.....Unless it's not wanting to train to failure regularly..

Not enough reps for optimal muscle growth and probably crap on the joints in the long run.....

Do 8 to 10/12 reps of something and not only do you get stronger but you satisfy the old muscles too...

I squatted 9 x 400 the other day to parallel.....I don't go below 8 reps....

My numbers are probably as good as many powerlifters and I have a 50 inch chest and close to 18 inch arms..26 inch thighs..

6ft and 225 at the moment......(Do have a bit of a waist though)..

What's the point of being strong and not looking good with it.......

Don't get stuck in this powerlifting mind set..........You can have the best of both worlds..

I think its just each to their own Truss.

People do different things and find preferences in different training methods.

Im enjoy doing lower reps at the moment. My body shape has changed quite a bit in only 8 weeks of doing that routine. And I feel it has actually helped my boxing and circuits.

I get a lot of rep work from my circuit training, and keep myself looking fairly good through that as well.

Truss without being rude, you wouldn't squat that without juice. If someone is natural, low reps and more sets is optimal.

Loads of powerlifters look good. I think I look decent when dieted down.

For powerlifting that Is.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not sure what the obsession is with doing 5 reps of something......5x5x5 etc.....Unless it's not wanting to train to failure regularly..

Not enough reps for optimal muscle growth and probably crap on the joints in the long run.....

Do 8 to 10/12 reps of something and not only do you get stronger but you satisfy the old muscles too...

I squatted 9 x 400 the other day to parallel.....I don't go below 8 reps....

My numbers are probably as good as many powerlifters and I have a 50 inch chest and close to 18 inch arms..26 inch thighs..

6ft and 225 at the moment......(Do have a bit of a waist though)..

What's the point of being strong and not looking good with it.......

Don't get stuck in this powerlifting mind set..........You can have the best of both worlds..

It's just another way of training to blast through a plateau Truss. Workouts become stagnant with the same rep ranges and sets. 5*5 is a nice way to mix things up and shock the body. Fewer reps but the extra set really makes a difference.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not sure what the obsession is with doing 5 reps of something......5x5x5 etc.....Unless it's not wanting to train to failure regularly..

Not enough reps for optimal muscle growth and probably crap on the joints in the long run.....

Do 8 to 10/12 reps of something and not only do you get stronger but you satisfy the old muscles too...

I squatted 9 x 400 the other day to parallel.....I don't go below 8 reps....

My numbers are probably as good as many powerlifters and I have a 50 inch chest and close to 18 inch arms..26 inch thighs..

6ft and 225 at the moment......(Do have a bit of a waist though)..

What's the point of being strong and not looking good with it.......


Don't get stuck in this powerlifting mind set..........You can have the best of both worlds..

Surely not? I thought training hard enough dealt with all that

Its definitely a routine that divides opinion and from what I have read is better suited to beginners than guys like yourself but as others have said can help getting through a plateau or just mixing things up for a bit. I get the impression that in the later stages of this routine you will be close to working til failure. I am going to give it a go, it can't hurt, be interesting to see the results.