Duran vs Hearns

It's always amazed me that Duran went from a close competitive defeat to a middleweight legend in Hagler to being stopped in two by another legend in Hearns in his next fight.

Hearns at his best and his best weight meant the cards would always be stacked in his favour but the thing I'm thinking may have had a greater impact on the result is the weight it was fought at. Duran with his famous lifestyle going to middle to challenge Hagler and then dropping back down to light middleweight can't have been easy or have (didnt) benefitted him in any way.

Did Duran dropping down to a weight that he wouldn't make for years ruin him or was Hearns to good for him at the time?

I'm not aware of Duran having difficulties making weight but he definitely didn't appear as intense as he was against Hagler (or Leonard first fight). Even after being flattened in the opening round, he wore a sheepish grin and seemed entertained by the celebrations of an over-enthusiastic Hearns fan at ringside.

Hearns was a bad style match-up for him, though. Too big and lightning quick with it. Duran may have been able to adjust if he could have survived a few more rounds but that knockout punch. Wow.

Just checked: Duran was 176 at the start of camp and 158 a week before weighing in. I think he was fiit enough.

Hearns hadn't knocked out anyone since 1982 (and had struggled to since moving up from welterweight). He'd struggled with a series of hand injuries. Duran expected to be the aggressor, with Hearns boxing on the back foot. Maybe it was just a case of Hearns ambushing him?

Perhaps I'm clutching at straws as a Duran fan but the weight drop should make a difference. He stayed at around the Hagler weight for most of his fights after it Hearns too.
Im not oblivious to the fact it may be far fetched due to Duran being a smaller framed fighter anyway but I can't see how, with his lifestyle, that those extra pounds didn't make a difference.

Fight wise it wasn't a stamina related fight and it was a quality finish. Duran didn't seem mentally there though.

It was a bad match up stylistically for Duran. He was always going to struggle against Hearns due to Hearns' long reach and height.

I think even if they had met a few years earlier at welterweight, Duran would have been beaten by Hearns.

Interviewed before he fought Hearns, Hagler was asked about Hearns devastating KO of Duran, Hagler's take on it was after going 15 rounds with him, that Duran was no longer the same fighter, as the fight had taken too much out of Duran.

Hagler was wrong with that analysis Nico. Duran went on to have a lengthy career, even winning another belt against Barkley and taking Leonard the distance in their third fight.

Nico the gman wrote:Interviewed before he fought Hearns, Hagler was asked about Hearns devastating KO of Duran, Hagler's take on it was after going 15 rounds with him, that Duran was no longer the same fighter, as the fight had taken too much out of Duran.

It makes sense that there were mitigating factors around a fighter of Durans calibre getting starched like he did. As Atila said, Hearns may well have beat Duran at welter too but destructions like that of great fighters just don't seem to happen often enough for there not to have been a reason for it.
Hagler and the weight drop were the cause then. Cheers fellas.

Have read some bits and bobs in relation to this fight. Apparently Duran was afraid of Tommy and never fancied the fight. I know it sounds weird considering how aggressive Duran could be in fights.

Even in the build up he didn't try and get under Hearns skin as he didn't want to agitate him.

It may of course be revisionism after the fight but I think along with the other factors mentioned by others, they all had a part to play in Duran getting sparked in two. Although a hook off Hearns would do that to the best of him.

Atila wrote:Hagler was wrong with that analysis Nico. Duran went on to have a lengthy career, even winning another belt against Barkley and taking Leonard the distance in their third fight.

Maybe so but 15 rounds with a full blown Middle like Hagler then dropping down a weight isn't going to do you any favours.

Personally I just think Hearns had he's number.

Just a styles thing for me. For all he looked outclassed before getting stiffed,  I do think if Duran had survived the onslaught he might have worked his way back into it later... but as a small guy he was always going to struggle with tommy's reach.

End of the day, he took a peach of a shot right on the money from a quick handed big hitting naturally bigger guy. It can happen to the best of them... And in this case it did

milkyboy wrote:Just a styles thing for me. For all he looked outclassed before getting stiffed,  I do think if Duran had survived the onslaught he might have worked his way back into it later... but as a small guy he was always going to struggle with tommy's reach.

End of the day, he took a peach of a shot right on the money from a quick handed big hitting naturally bigger guy. It can happen to the best of them... And in this case it did

Agree with you on the "styles thing" but don't see Duran 'working his way back into it later'. Hearns could do everything that Kirkland Laing could do but only better and both of them had physical advantages that Duran couldn't overcome.

Key words in that sentence were 'might' and 'but' fella. I think it was a possibility if he weathered the storm but unlikely

milkyboy wrote:Key words in that sentence were 'might' and 'but' fella. I think it was a possibility if he weathered the storm but unlikely

Like saying IF Hatton had weathered the storm he MIGHT have got back into the fight against Manny It's probably a good thing they both got flattened as I shudder to think what state they'd be in after a dozen rounds

My point is Tommy couldn't fire off like that for 12 rounds. conventional wisdom is Tommy rolls Duran like a drunk (kerching) every time. Its entirely possible but not cast in stone in my view.

As for the Hatton analogy. Well one fighter is an atg who recovered from some bad starts... And one is Ricky Hatton.

DAVE667 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Key words in that sentence were 'might' and 'but' fella. I think it was a possibility if he weathered the storm but unlikely

Like saying IF Hatton had weathered the storm he MIGHT have got back into the fight against Manny It's probably a good thing they both got flattened as I shudder to think what state they'd be in after a dozen rounds

Hatton MIGHT well have got back into the fight if he had weathered the storm. Don't forget he was winning the fight by a mile until he was put down.

He MIGHT have beaten Mayweather too if he had a better ref than Cortez.

Tommy was really sharp, he was hurting Duran with jabs. It was a clash of styles for me too. Duran although a consummate boxer, was never going to be slick enough to get inside like Leonard or a head of stone like hagler.

Pedro147 wrote:Have read some bits and bobs in relation to this fight. Apparently Duran was afraid of Tommy and never fancied the fight. I know it sounds weird considering how aggressive Duran could be in fights.

Even in the build up he didn't try and get under Hearns skin as he didn't want to agitate him.

It may of course be revisionism after the fight but I think along with the other factors mentioned by others, they all had a part to play in Duran getting sparked in two. Although a hook off Hearns would do that to the best of him.

I couldn't imagine Duran being frightened of anyone, Moore, Benitez, Leonard, Cuevas, Hagler, suggests he feared no-one, so I would dismiss that notion.

Think there is a lot of crap being written on this thread........This fight is the reason I won't have Duran top 10 and in fairness to your late great Reg Gutteridge it's the same reason he wouldn't either !!!.

But instead of a no good chump like me critiquing Duran's performance I'll let the venerable Gil Clancy explain his version of "Amateur night"...

1. Duran fought the whole fight with his chin in the air !!.

2. Duran tried to fight a guy six inches taller..with the best jab in boxing on the outside...

3. Duran routinely circled to his left all fight into the range of the guy who had the most devastating right hand in boxing....

4. Just before he was put out of his misery he was flailing widely off the ropes....completely wide open....

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Best thing we can say is that Duran was so intimidated he took leave of his senses...

The fact he never wanted Hearns again probably adds to that theory....To be honest I'm glad there wasn't a rematch......Don't want to see anybody die in the ring !!!!

Like "No mas" a very sad chapter in another wise exemplary career......Great, great fighter nevertheless....

My number 11.........of alltime...

The 4 examples you've used there are definitely out of character for Duran. That's why I've thrown it out there that there may have been issues beforehand. Going up for Hagler and back down.

Not taking anything away from Hearns as he could do that to anyone. Just asking if anyone else thought that there were other factors to such an out of character defeat. He lost to more inferior boxers than Hearns but it was the manner of the defeat.

As I've said though, Hearns was capable of doing it to anyone.

What issues apart from being scared stiff could make a fighter perform like that..

Chin down...Try to get inside and stay away from the righthand !!!

The chump in the playground knows it's the only way for a midget to take on Tommy..

As I said at the beginning of the thread, I'm asking if weight was the issue. Hagler at middle and then Hearns at light middle the next fight after. Up and down with two polar opposite performances.

How can weight be the issue........When you're fighting with your chin in the air and trying to beat a guy six inches taller with the best jab in boxing on the outside whilst constantly circling toward his potent right hand.....

I imagine you're a Duran fan and that's okay......But smell the coffee.....

AZZJ44 wrote:As I said at the beginning of the thread,  I'm asking if weight was the issue. Hagler at middle and then Hearns at light middle the next fight after. Up and down with two polar opposite performances.

I don't think the weight was an issue, he'd spent the last few years fighting fighting between 147 and 154, I think he'd weighed 157 for Hagler 8 months before. He & Hagler were a similar height and Haglers style was more suited to him than Hearns. Maybe Hagler had an off night when he faced Duran.