We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Ent]

First topic message reminder :

Missed the game today great result!

City have bought terribly since they won the title in 11/12, 100s of millions and no real certain starters or class players introduced.

They've prospered in a relative decline of the pl, picking up the top players from the non top 4 and the sub elite Europeans was good enough as a base but they didn't kick on and it has showed in Europe and this season.

6 wins in a row for United, city, Spurs and Liverpool in that run.

Top 4 all but secured, big test next week against chelsea.

[FootballLight]

Wes Brown also has a Champions League medal.

Soooooooooooo...

2 actually.

Gerrard is a myth, today was nauseating - but we all knew it would be.

2 better players with greater achievements actually retired the last 2 years and we didn't get this Love sacks from everyone involved.

Anyeay on the day his lack of legs directly contributed to palace over running Liverpool over and over again and ultimately led to their loss.

I do actually agree, it sums up the mentality of Liverpool at the moment to be honest and it's not like he's retiring but rather has chosen to leave for a different club, all totally over the top.

His overall impact on the Premier League has been quite small and it's no coincidence that Liverpool went from being a very strong team in 08-09 to an also ran the next season, a certain midfielder left at that time hmmmmm.

I'm also very much with Ent and Hammersmith.

When Liverpool have been a great team in the past, they've had a hard edge to both their play and their management. Even the affable Bob Paisley had an inner steel beneath his normally chuckling appearance. Gerrard was not good enough for yesterday's match and should not have been selected. The 90 odd minutes were swamped in sentimentality and the antics belonged to a testimonial game.

I think Liverpool were more focused on the occasion rather than the result. They would have liked to have given Gerrard a good send off from Anfield with a win, but Gerrard MUST have played in that game regardless.

[guildfordbat]

You should be happy, mysti. Deservedly so! Palace took the game seriously as a Premier League fixture earning them the 3 points and you your dosh!

[Ent]

Just saw a write up saying yesterday was the equivalent to a state funeral. Sums it up well.

Palace were excellent yesterday, completely outplayed Liverpool.

[guildfordbat]

... but Gerrard MUST have played in that game regardless.

Why?

[FootballLight]

I agree Ent. It was for Liverpool's case definitely. I think the best summary you can make of that game was that Liverpool played Gerrard's testimonial, Palace played the game to win.

[FootballLight]

... but Gerrard MUST have played in that game regardless.

Why?

As you have rightly pointed out, he is not retiring, he is leaving. Yet, at the same time, that was most likely the last game Gerrard will play for Liverpool at Anfield. He is known to the majority of Liverpool fans as a legend for the club so it was pivotal that he was to play in the game really. It might make more sense not to play him and win the game and get into Europe, but its easy to say that now. The automatic reaction of Liverpool players before the game would have been for them to win the game for Liverpool. That didn't happen as the occasion was too much for the players.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Pretty much sums up Liverpool at the moment - more worried about the past and honouring it then the future. No European football, will probably lose their brightest prospect and an egotistical idiot for a manager. Bleak times on Merseyside ahead

[Ent]

They should have played their best team.

He could have had a testimonial as part of liverpools pre season.

[guildfordbat]

... but Gerrard MUST have played in that game regardless.

Why?

As you have rightly pointed out, he is not retiring, he is leaving. Yet, at the same time, that was most likely the last game Gerrard will play for Liverpool at Anfield. He is known to the majority of Liverpool fans as a legend for the club so it was pivotal that he was to play in the game really. It might make more sense not to play him and win the game and get into Europe, but its easy to say that now. The automatic reaction of Liverpool players before the game would have been for them to win the game for Liverpool. That didn't happen as the occasion was too much for the players.

FL - thanks for your reply. It's a game of opinions just as this is a board of opinions. Mine is that it was more pivotal or important to show the importance of the team continuing and with its best players in that team. Those best players no longer longer includes Gerrard regardless of his past efforts and successes.

[Guest]

To be honest, all you United fans sticking your oar in, the top 4 was gone anyway, so Liverpool could afford to play Gerrard, it was a meaningless game, in a season which had ended anyway.

As for Liverpool's brightest prospect, Olly, Sterling is a pile of ****, so losing him won't be a blow. Big rebuild now for Liverpool & a few years in no mans land ahead, given how the top 4 will strengthen this summer.

[Ent]

Wouldnt day it was meaningless.

Still could have made top 4, although unlikely. Now they can be caught by Spurs and southampton, potentially dropping to 7th. That effects the prize money allocated and if villa win the cup won't have a Europa league spot attached. Though Liverpool might have a fair play spot in that case.

Even in that outcome they'd go into the wualifying round and have to start their season early.

[Fernando]

Swansea: Fabianski, Richards, Fernandez, Williams, Taylor, Cork, Shelvey, Dyer, Sigurdsson, Montero, Gomis.

Subs: Tremmel, Bartley, Tiendalli, Britton, Grimes, Barrow, Emnes.

Manchester City: Hart, Zabaleta, Demichelis, Mangala, Kolarov, Fernandinho, Milner, Toure, Lampard, Silva, Aguero.

Subs: Caballero, Kompany, Clichy, Jovetic, Dzeko, Navas, Bony.

[GSC]

I cant begrudge Steven Gerrard his day. United did similar for Giggs a year ago, so some should check their glass houses before throwing stones

[Ent]

Well giggs announced his retirement after the season had ended.

He was also manager and made a sub appearance in his last game at old Trafford if I recall correctly.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Strange how that didn't actually happen GSC, his final home game consisted of 20 minutes once we were already 2-1 up but yes it was very similar.

[FootballLight]

... but Gerrard MUST have played in that game regardless.

Why?

As you have rightly pointed out, he is not retiring, he is leaving. Yet, at the same time, that was most likely the last game Gerrard will play for Liverpool at Anfield. He is known to the majority of Liverpool fans as a legend for the club so it was pivotal that he was to play in the game really. It might make more sense not to play him and win the game and get into Europe, but its easy to say that now. The automatic reaction of Liverpool players before the game would have been for them to win the game for Liverpool. That didn't happen as the occasion was too much for the players.

FL - thanks for your reply. It's a game of opinions just as this is a board of opinions. Mine is that it was more pivotal or important to show the importance of the team continuing and with its best players in that team. Those best players no longer longer includes Gerrard regardless of his past efforts and successes.

I should probably credit you more than you should credit me. I agree, Liverpool should have done what is best for the club, but after the game that's easy to say. I would have expected the Liverpool players to up their performance and win for Gerrard, that unfortunately hasn't happened for them. Also, I think Rodgers would have received more hassle if he wasn't to play Gerrard.

[FootballLight]

Wouldnt day it was meaningless.

Still could have made top 4, although unlikely. Now they can be caught by Spurs and southampton, potentially dropping to 7th. That effects the prize money allocated and if villa win the cup won't have a Europa league spot attached. Though Liverpool might have a fair play spot in that case.

Even in that outcome they'd go into the wualifying round and have to start their season early.

Yes, maybe that is the consequence. However, I think if you asked 100 Liverpool fans, around 80% would say Gerrard is their best midfielder still (roughly). That's not because of his achievements or honours, but because of his influence and his quality. I think Gerrard is Liverpool's best midfielder still, argue that all you wish. So I would think Gerrard should play as he is their best midfielder and Liverpool will have wanted to play their best team to guarantee a Europa League spot. That didn't happen because the team played poor.

I also think regardless of the occasion, on a normal weekend Liverpool would have lost that game because the team collectively played poor.

[Ent]

Which is it? Is he the best midfielder or did he have to play given the occassion - you have said both.

Hope swansea win, give us the chance to catch city.

Think people are overlooking the fact that 4th doesn't equal cl qualification, qualifiers are unseeded now (iirc) so could pull out Sevilla or a team of that calibre.

[FootballLight]

He is Liverpool's best midfielder (although both is still technically true).

[GSC]

It was a meaningless game at the end of the season, it was the final home game for a club legend.

No idea why this is any kind of a deal. Get over it.

[Crimey]

I love Xabi Alonso but he was not even close to Gerrard's level until his final year. I know it's been rewritten to make out Benitez to be stupid but Alonso was poor from 06-08 and it wasn't out of nowhere that he was on his way out. He then put in a world class season and it earned him the move he wanted. Gerrard was also fantastic that year and the year before and every year going back to 04/05, and even the ones before he was promising and the ones after he was the best part of a very poor side. Last season he was fantastic and he was probably the second most important player in the title charge bar Suarez for me. 

I definitely think he's better than Fabregas who is a neat and brilliant player, but he faded badly this year, didn't have a great time at Barcelona and is never a guaranteed starter for Spain. For me his overall play doesn't hit Gerrard's level and never has and I think if you take Fabregas out of Chelsea's side and put in any Gerrard from 2005-2010 that team is better. 

For some reason and I feel like it's because Liverpool fans love him (because how dare we value the best player arguably Liverpool has ever had, who is actually local as well) Gerrard is incredibly undervalued. His loyalty to Liverpool has let him down really because he could have played for any of the top clubs in Europe at any time and indeed they all wanted him. I believe it was Bayern who tried to sign him before 13/14. 

My problem with Scholes' place in world football now is that for years people have claimed he was underrated and an amazing footballer and the best part of the United sides. Now he's reached the point where he's overrated because people have tried to counter him being underrated. I think Scholes was good, but at no point in his career as he ever been the best player at Manchester United or the most important. His longevity is fantastic and the adaptation in his game impressive, but I've yet to ever see a convincing argument as to why Scholes is the Premier League's best ever midfielder. I think especially before he dropped deeper later in his career, he wasn't special at all.

[Crimey]

Also the game with Palace had nothing on it, a Europa League place perhaps but not anything huge and it was the last game at Anfield for THE best Liverpool player of the past 10 years. I know Giggs or Scholes might have not got the same deal but they're famous for the longevity and service, I don't think there are many who would say they're the best Manchester United had during that period. There simply isn't the same connection between them, they were always playing for one of the best clubs in Europe so their loyalty to one club simply isn't as impressive.

Also, I don't think there was any suggestion during the game that Liverpool were taking it easy. I wish that was the case, but I think Crystal Palace were just the better side fair and square, they had more intensity and Rodgers got the tactics wrong with the back three against a team with such pace. Gerrard had been starting most weeks anyway and actually playing well and scoring, so he wasn't plucked out of the reserves to start this out of sentimentality. I also think wanting to win for Gerrard was probably added motivation to win.

[FootballLight]

Sigurdsson is a good little player I think at Swansea. I can see why he got his move (from Reading) to a big club. Unfortunately, he just didn't hit it off at Spurs and I don't think them clubs will take a chance on him again. He takes up very good positions, links with the strikers well, creates chances/assists, grabs a few goals here and there for his side and can take a very good set piece from a variety of positions. I think that is money well spent by Swansea and if he was to leave this summer, I don't think Swansea would accept anything under £15m for him at least.

I think he has found his level at Swansea where he is capable of playing his best football. He could maybe fit into a Europa League side, but he needs to be a regular, but I do think he would be a good signing for whoever gets into Europe this season.

[Ent]

Does fabianski have holes in his hands?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Also the game with Palace had nothing on it, a Europa League place perhaps but not anything huge and it was the last game at Anfield for THE best Liverpool player of the past 10 years. I know Giggs or Scholes might have not got the same deal but they're famous for the longevity and service, I don't think there are many who would say they're the best Manchester United had during that period. There simply isn't the same connection between them, they were always playing for one of the best clubs in Europe so their loyalty to one club simply isn't as impressive.

Also, I don't think there was any suggestion during the game that Liverpool were taking it easy. I wish that was the case, but I think Crystal Palace were just the better side fair and square, they had more intensity and Rodgers got the tactics wrong with the back three against a team with such pace. Gerrard had been starting most weeks anyway and actually playing well and scoring, so he wasn't plucked out of the reserves to start this out of sentimentality. I also think wanting to win for Gerrard was probably added motivation to win.

I may, may I add, just guess you are slightly too young to know how good Scholes was. Equally, Gerrard spent a lot of time standing out in a team full of second rate players. Even talents like Mascherano and Alonso didn't match up to Keane.

[Ent]

Gomis needs to head that down, made it saveable.

De gea
Valencia smalling jones Rojo
Blind
Mata herrera fellaini Young
Falcao

Can see arsenal giving that sode the run around though we usually do well against arsenal.

[FootballLight]

All of those people that said Toure isn't that good for City anymore and should be sold.  Just proven today how important he is. Controlled that midfield and got the 2 goals he has deserved for another good performance. Top class player that City need to keep hold of, they will regret it if they don't.

[Ent]

Good game, goal keepers the difference in the end.

[Hammersmith harrier]

One swallow does not make a Summer just like having one good game does not make a good season.

[Ent]

All of those people that said Toure isn't that good for City anymore and should be sold.  Just proven today how important he is. Controlled that midfield and got the 2 goals he has deserved for another good performance. Top class player that City need to keep hold of, they will regret it if they don't.

Don't agree, fabianski dropped his 2 shots in and swansea had plenty of possession, chances and got at city's back 4 very easily.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

And hes under no pressure. Like saying Bradford are Champions of England cos they beat Chelsea

[Ent]

Been impressed with cazorla in arsenals run, much more involved I this deeper role.

Think if we can get on top of him well be in with a good chance today.

[FootballLight]

Fair enough, this season hasn't been as good, but he has still shown glimpses this season of the quality he showed last season by being instrumental in that midfield and his job wasn't to protect that back 4 today anyway whoever brought that up, they had Fernandinho to do that for them.

[Ent]

Yes but in a 3 including lampard he needs to be aware of his responsibility in there.

[FootballLight]

Understandable yes however, he did his role well today, hence why the Swansea midfield couldn't live with him and with no disrespect to Swansea, yes its only Swansea but someone from City in that midfield had to step up today if they were to win that game and Toure did.

[Hammersmith harrier]

We look so much better going forward against a team that doesn't sit back.

[FootballLight]

That's obvious though. Gaps are more likely to open up when a team attacks against you and then your more creative players like Herrera, Mata etc can create chances and exploit them gaps. Got to say, poor tracking by Sanchez for the first goal.

[Ent]

Comfortable enough first half.

Need a second goal as phil Jones is trying his best o give one away.

[Ent]

We look so much better going forward against a team that doesn't sit back.

Yeah, either arsenes tactics are terrible or he doesn't trust his defense to keep us out if he tries to sit and counter.

[Ent]

Arsenal can't be as bad this half so we need to lift it up a level and get another goal.

[FootballLight]

Final time for De Gea in a United shirt? Possibly.

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