Strauss and WP Nel.

Was browsing through Internet last night and found an article saying that Josh Strauss and WP Nel are eligible to play for Scotland a day after World Cup, 4 days before Scotland v Japan.

So, who will they be competing with for a starting place in Scotland team and will they be good additions?

Also, who else in eligible for Scotland through residency or grandparent/parent rule?

From memory WP Nel will qualify in time for the world cup warmup games, but Strauss' first game for Scotland will be in the world cup (if he's picked).

The Strauss issue has been long debated on this forum, with a lot of heated debate.  I have always been uneasy with parachuting Strauss straight into the Scotland team, partly because of the message it sends out to players who have been playing regularly for Scotland leading up to the WC, but mainly because there is no guarantee that a good club player will make the step up to International level.  And let's face it, there's no room for error in a world cup and he'll have to find his feet very quickly!

However, Beattie's recent form has started persuading me otherwise. Denton for me is our best 8 we currently have (if the backrow balance is right), with Ashe looking to push on from early promise.

Assuming we'll be taking 6 backrowers, with one covering 2nd row too (Denton/Harley) I reckon if we had

Harley, Cowan, Denton, Strauss, Ashe, Watson (assuming he pushes on as hoped)

We would have a good balanced backrow, and Strauss' inclusion would be justified.

That could give us a first choice backrow of

Harley, Cowan, Denton

Bench - Strauss

And a reserve backrow of

Struass, Watson, Ashe

Bench - Denton

Which is probably just as strong as our first choice backrow!


As for WP Nel - I think he should be in the squad, especially because he will have been playing in the world cup warm up games. It would mean one of Cross, Low or Welsh missing out, but neither of those have particularly nailed down their spot with Scotland.

Plus, we need Nel's try scoring ability to make up for picking Maitland...

Obviously he can't be picked, but what are the rules on non qualified players being invited to training to watch?

Could you potentially have Strauss around camp as a guest pre works cup?

I don't think there's anything stopping them training - in fact I've heard rumours that both have trained with the Scotland squad in the past.

Ah so it possibly wouldn't be too hard to get them up to speed then? Realistically the '15 RWC is too early for a lot of the NH teams, but the extended run out that the squad get could be useful.

Yeah, but there's a big difference between training and playing!

I've come round to the idea of including them, but it isn't exactly ideal.

Of course, in an ideal world they would have qualified at the start of this season, but this is the situation we're in, so we have to make the best of it. In a way the RWC schedule is quite favourable as we play Japan, USA, SA and Samoa in that order, so they would hopefully get up to speed at international level quickly. But we play Japan on the 23rd of September and then USA on the 27th, so realistically we'll see the majority of the squad feature in the first two games. As we're going to need some depth in our squad, we can't afford not to pick Strauss and Nel. With a good deal of training under their belts, they should be integrated into the squad albeit Strauss won't have featured in any games.

Nel features strongly in a pretty formidable Edinburgh front-row, so that's a well drilled unit already and he's very mobile in the loose, which we could certainly do with.

Even if they aren't going to be starters, they are certainly good squad players.

I'd much rather Strauss over Beattie or Wilson just now!

The SRU have known about this possibility of them qualifying very close to the world cup. Would it not have been wise for the SRU to organise a couple of non cap tests against the barbarians or a team like that to get Nel and strauss playing with the national squad before their official residency qualification.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Even if they aren't going to be starters, they are certainly good squad players.

I'd much rather Strauss over Beattie or Wilson just now!

+1

I would say they are very likely to feature in the wider squad, but they do have to earn their places in the match day 23. Nel has the advantage of having the warm up games to push his cause, whilst Strauss may feature off the bench against Japan and generally would need to be outshining the other 8s in training. It's a 31 man WC squad I think isn't it?

Not overly practical though. We've already got 4 warm up games - proper games against international teams - so there is no time to play one between now and the WC.

Also, it would have been strange organising one last summer just to give two players a game!

I don't think we have much to worry about with them being integrated into the squad. They will have been through all the training camp stuff in the run up and remember who they are playing with.

Nel will likely be in an all Edinburgh front row and will have the warm up games as well.

Strauss will be with around 10 of his club mates for his debut. Can't hope for much more.

Scottish White Line Fever wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Even if they aren't going to be starters, they are certainly good squad players.

I'd much rather Strauss over Beattie or Wilson just now!

+1

I would say they are very likely to feature in the wider squad, but they do have to earn their places in the match day 23. Nel has the advantage of having the warm up games to push his cause, whilst Strauss may feature off the bench against Japan and generally would need to be outshining the other 8s in training. It's a 31 man WC squad I think isn't it?

I read somewhere the other week that it is supposed to be 32 man squads for the world cup.

Whilst I hate the idea of players just dropping into the World Cup squad, there is absolutely no question that Nel and Strauss would make the squad on merit, and the XV as well quite frankly.

I'm stubbourn, and as such will draw the line at the captaincy being given to a player who has never played for Scotland before, but if I were Vern Cotter I'd have Nel and Strauss in the starting line-up for the World Cup openner.

32 man Scotland squad:

Props: Nel, Murray, Cross, Dickinson, Grant, Reid
Hookers: Ford, Brown, McInally
Second Row: Gilchrist (Hamilton if not fit), R Gray, J Gray and Toolis
Back Row: Harley, Brown, Cowan, Denton and Strauss
Scrum Half: Laidlaw, Hidalgo-Clyne, Cusiter
Fly Half: Russell, Weir and Tonks
Centre: Dunbar, Scott, Bennett and Taylor
Wings: Visser, Seymour and Maitland
Fullback: Hogg (with Tonks covering)

I have put in bold where I think there are contentious choices.

I'd throw Strauss straight in, he'll be ready.

And probably Nel - Murray won't keep going forever.

funnyExiledScot wrote:32 man Scotland squad:

Props: Nel, Murray, Cross, Dickinson, Grant, Reid
Hookers: Ford, Brown, McInally
Second Row: Gilchrist (Hamilton if not fit), R Gray, J Gray and Toolis
Back Row: Harley, Brown, Cowan, Denton and Strauss
Scrum Half: Laidlaw, Hidalgo-Clyne, Cusiter
Fly Half: Russell, Weir and Tonks
Centre: Dunbar, Scott, Bennett and Taylor
Wings: Visser, Seymour and Maitland
Fullback: Hogg (with Tonks covering)

I have put in bold where I think there are contentious choices.

Fairly close squad to the one I would have picked.
the changes I have in mine are
Props: Nel, Murray, Cross, Dickinson, Grant, Reid
Hookers: Ford, Brown, McArthur
Second Row: Gilchrist , R Gray, J Gray and Toolis
Back Row: Harley, Brown, Cowan, Denton, Strauss, Watson
Scrum Half: Laidlaw, Hidalgo-Clyne, Cusiter
Fly Half: Russell, Weir
Centre: Dunbar, Scott, Bennett
Back 3: Visser, Seymour, Maitland, Hogg, Lamont.

I think they will go with 6 back so could see Watson included or possibly Blake. Don't think Tonks will make it and they will only take 2 10s. Think Lamont will make the squad still as Cotter seems a fan and will take him as wing/centre cover.
Think at the moment McInally may miss out due to lack of experience however I can see the benefits of taking him as he also can cover back row as well.
Going to be an interesting selection Cotter has in a few months time and still the possibility for a few players to push themselves into the team.

We're not miles apart Maj.

I think the 3rd hooker slot is wide open, and someone like Bryce or Cochrane could easily sneak in. I suggested McInally purely because of his ball carrying abilities in open play, an area where we've really lacked this 6 Nations (Nel will help as well). MacArthur is a good player with a great workrate, but I put him in the same bracket as Swinson and Fusaro - good club players, won't let you down, but short of what's required at international level.

funnyExiledScot wrote:MacArthur is a good player with a great workrate, but I put him in the same bracket as Swinson and Fusaro - good club players, won't let you down, but short of what's required at international level.

What - height, weight and power?

RDW_Scotland wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:MacArthur is a good player with a great workrate, but I put him in the same bracket as Swinson and Fusaro - good club players, won't let you down, but short of what's required at international level.

What - height, weight and power?

All of the above!

It was a fair comment - that's what all 3 are lacking!

Tell me boys, how is Nel's English coming on?

Biltong wrote:Tell me boys, how is Nel's English coming on?

Not a clue. There are plenty of South Africans in the squad for him to speak to!!

Haha, you might find Scotland going for Afrikaans line out calls soon

Id hope that IRB rules only allow qualified players to be named in the squads, and those squads have to be submitted pre tournament.

I hope that as much for Scotlands integrity as much as anything else.


Next years 6 nations fair enough, if they havent got better offers from french clubs between now and then.

RDW_Scotland wrote: I have always been uneasy with parachuting Strauss straight into the Scotland team, partly because of the message it sends out to players who have been playing regularly for Scotland leading up to the WC

I think the message would be : Stop losing to Italy

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote: I have always been uneasy with parachuting Strauss straight into the Scotland team, partly because of the message it sends out to players who have been playing regularly for Scotland leading up to the WC

I think the message would be : Stop losing to Italy

Agree. I had Beattie pencilled into my WC squad pre-6 Nations but he can have no complaints over being left out now.

Never mind the 3rd Hooker position I'm not sure that Frodo can be sure of the 3rd Scrum half berth.
If Jackson gets back playing for Wasps before the end of the season I'd take him before Tonks as well.

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote: I have always been uneasy with parachuting Strauss straight into the Scotland team, partly because of the message it sends out to players who have been playing regularly for Scotland leading up to the WC

I think the message would be : Stop losing to Italy

quite

imagine how uneasy Cotter will be about replacing Beattie with Strauss.
Id imagine not at all.

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote: I have always been uneasy with parachuting Strauss straight into the Scotland team, partly because of the message it sends out to players who have been playing regularly for Scotland leading up to the WC

I think the message would be : Stop losing to Italy

quite  

imagine how uneasy Cotter will be about replacing Beattie with Strauss.
Id imagine not at all.

jimbopip wrote:Never mind the 3rd Hooker position I'm not sure that Frodo can be sure of the 3rd Scrum half berth.
If Jackson gets back playing for Wasps before the end of the season I'd take him before Tonks as well.

I agree on Jackson, a better 10 than Tonks and Horne, probably Meatball as well.

Jackson fits the same description as Brown and Barclay - he's been away from Scotland so long we've forgotten all the terrible results he's served up in Scotland colours over the years!

Well his record for Scotland is still better than that of Tonks and Horne.

I didn't list him in my squad purely because his injury puts him out of contention.