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Hawk-Eye - Pro12 debut this weekend

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Post by George Carlin Wed 18 Feb 2015, 2:43 pm

This new technology was mentioned a while back, but it's actually to be used at the games this weekend.

It is supposed to supplement the standard camera angles available to TMOs.

Official supplier statement here:
World Rugby selects Hawk-Eye for video replay technology trial

World Rugby is collaborating with Hawk-Eye Innovations and Rugby World Cup 2015 host broadcaster ITV to trial innovative video review technology for consideration ahead of England 2015. The objective of the trial is to determine how new technology can enhance player welfare, while strengthening the accuracy and efficiency of the television match official (TMO) decision-making process.

With England 2015 set to be the best-attended and most-viewed rugby event to date, the approach underscores World Rugby’s commitment to ensuring the best-possible service for teams and fans. While the protocol will be unchanged relating to the questions that the referee asks of the TMO, the technology that the TMO will have access to is being enhanced with access to simultaneous multiple angle replays in real-time and slow motion delivered by Hawk-Eye’s ‘SMART Replay’ technology.

The trial will debut on 21 February in partnership with PRO12 Rugby, which has agreed to participate in a live test of the technology with full support of Sky Sports at selected matches, for the remainder of the 2014-15 Guinness PRO12 season. Further trials will take place at the World Rugby U20 Championship in Italy with the input of ITV, as the countdown to Rugby World Cup 2015 gathers momentum.

World Rugby Chief Executive Brett Gosper said: "Technology is an important component of the rugby performance and fan engagement environments and Rugby World Cup 2015 is set to showcase innovation and performance to a record global audience.

"Central to our sport is the integrity of player welfare and the match official decision making process and we are delighted to be collaborating with Hawk-Eye and ITV as well as PRO12 Rugby and Sky to determine how we can enhance speed and accuracy in these critical areas.

"While this is not a fait accompli, we are excited by the proposed system developed by Hawk-Eye that has clear benefits for the match official team, the medical team and fans around the world and these live trials will help us determine a technology approach for Rugby World Cup."

Managing Director of Hawk-Eye Stephen Carter added: "As rugby fans, we’re very excited about the opportunity to use our technology to help the TMO and medical teams make accurate and fast decisions. We would like to thank World Rugby for taking a strong leadership position and we are confident that our technology can further enhance player welfare and accuracy of decision-making."

John Feehan, Chief Executive of PRO12 Rugby, stated: "We are delighted to assist in the development of any systems to improve player welfare and the match officiating process. World Rugby, Hawk-Eye and both Sky Sports and ITV are to be commended for bringing the process this far and the Guinness PRO12 is glad to provide the opportunity to trial this technology and progress this welcome initiative further."

Hawk-Eye’s ‘SMART Replay’ is already being used by a number of sports including baseball, athletics, horseracing, football, badminton, volleyball and Australian rules football. The technology works by recording all broadcast angles in real time and making this content available immediately either on-site or remotely to help multiple stakeholders across sports officiating, player welfare, coaching and content management.

I am not being funny, but what is this actually to be used for, other than decisions about whether balls bounced into touch and/or through the posts?
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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 18 Feb 2015, 2:45 pm

Good news for Glasgow given Clancy's reffing your game! He needs all the help he can get.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Wed 18 Feb 2015, 2:45 pm

I expect 3d imaging to see whether the ball is touching the try line.

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Post by nathan Wed 18 Feb 2015, 2:51 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:I expect 3d imaging to see whether the ball is touching the try line.

which i think could make a big difference.


....

Actually, isn't hawk eye based on line of sight with the ball so it wouldn't be able to detect if it can't see the ball - which is a lot in rugby

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Post by wayne Wed 18 Feb 2015, 3:04 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Good news for Glasgow given Clancy's reffing your game! He needs all the help he can get.
You're worried about Clancy? look who's running the line.

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Post by Weegie Wizard Wed 18 Feb 2015, 3:17 pm

I sort of get how this could be used for knock-ons and touchline decisions etc but they are going on a lot about 'player welfare' here. How on earth will it be used to improve that?

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Post by VinceWLB Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:44 pm

This could be real progress, how often do we need camera angle from a specific angle for giving a try?

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Post by Notch Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:13 pm

Brilliant, what rugby needs is more ways of verifying decisions to slow down the game.

Looking forward to every try scored being followed by five minutes of slow-motion replays while the players and supporters stand around.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Wed 18 Feb 2015, 6:46 pm

Notch wrote:Brilliant, what rugby needs is more ways of verifying decisions to slow down the game.

Looking forward to every try scored being followed by five minutes of slow-motion replays while the players and supporters stand around.

Now now Notch, the players are receiving orders from the waterboys.... and the supporters are in and out the whole time getting drinks in or emptying their weak bladders.

You would think syncing the feckin cameras would be simpleton kind of task, just align the clocks before the game kicks off. And they should be able to replay 2-4-6 angles back at the same time to cut down time. The most frustrating thing is when the TMO lost track of technology before VCRs came along and when they can't use a frickin mic/earpiece to talk to each other.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 18 Feb 2015, 7:17 pm

What a waste of money.

606 crowd do the Hawk Eye stuff completely free Whistle

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Post by HammerofThunor Wed 18 Feb 2015, 8:09 pm

Notch wrote:Brilliant, what rugby needs is more ways of verifying decisions to slow down the game.

Looking forward to every try scored being followed by five minutes of slow-motion replays while the players and supporters stand around.

Sn't the whole point that this would give an answer a lot quicker than watching various angles? So it would speed it up.

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Post by SecretFly Wed 18 Feb 2015, 8:18 pm

X-ray would actually work better... at least you'd see the ball and all the old bone injuries in real time...

Hawk Eye is merely technology though. You only see a video graphic representation. And as any of us who work with graphics and computers know............... they often malfunction and give the wrong result.

So x-ray machines hovering over the try lines is the only Realistic solution.

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Post by Notch Wed 18 Feb 2015, 9:19 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Notch wrote:Brilliant, what rugby needs is more ways of verifying decisions to slow down the game.

Looking forward to every try scored being followed by five minutes of slow-motion replays while the players and supporters stand around.

Sn't the whole point that this would give an answer a lot quicker than watching various angles? So it would speed it up.

It will only speed things up if the TMOs and officials are able to use it properly and communicate effectively with each other to get to a decision quickly. Im practice, and given the ineptitude of your standard TMO, it will just add another thing to check off before you can award the try as well as the current slow-motion replays. In other words, it will probably be used in addition to everything else and not instead.
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Post by whocares Wed 18 Feb 2015, 9:32 pm

Why they just dont put a GPS tracker and a few motion sensors inside the rugby ball?

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Post by SecretFly Thu 19 Feb 2015, 11:48 am

whocares wrote:Why they just dont put a GPS tracker and a few motion sensors inside the rugby ball?

That would be against the human rights of the ball - you can't just GPS anything that moves. You need signed agreements that would allow you to spy on their movements.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu 19 Feb 2015, 12:00 pm

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/news/7504.php

Scarlets Chief Operating Officer Jon Daniels said: "It's fantastic to see World Rugby leading the way with Hawk-eye technology; any technology that can enhance player welfare is to be welcomed. We are delighted to be hosting the first live trial of the innovative technology at Parc y Scarlets on Saturday."


Good idea, trial it in the crappy west wales weather, and see if it can deal with the misty rain crap we have.
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Post by HammerofThunor Thu 19 Feb 2015, 12:02 pm

Notch wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
Notch wrote:Brilliant, what rugby needs is more ways of verifying decisions to slow down the game.

Looking forward to every try scored being followed by five minutes of slow-motion replays while the players and supporters stand around.

Sn't the whole point that this would give an answer a lot quicker than watching various angles? So it would speed it up.

It will only speed things up if the TMOs and officials are able to use it properly and communicate effectively with each other to get to a decision quickly. Im practice, and given the ineptitude of your standard TMO, it will just add another thing to check off before you can award the try as well as the current slow-motion replays. In other words, it will probably be used in addition to everything else and not instead.

I just read the article again. It seems it's just a system for reviewing video footage, rather than any fancy 3D reconstruction.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 19 Feb 2015, 12:16 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:

I just read the article again. It seems it's just a system for reviewing video footage, rather than any fancy 3D reconstruction.

I'd have to read the article as I can't work out how Hawk Eye can be used to review video footage without doing what Hawk Eye does, which is locate objects in a 3D space. If they use that technology in review, I can't see why they wouldn't use in in a real time context.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 19 Feb 2015, 2:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:So x-ray machines hovering over the try lines is the only Realistic solution.

But you would have to use a lead ball so as it stands out clear on the x-ray. At least it will stop pens being kicked from the halfway line. Laugh

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Post by HammerofThunor Thu 19 Feb 2015, 3:43 pm

Hawk-Eye’s ‘SMART Replay’ is already being used by a number of sports including baseball, athletics, horseracing, football, badminton, volleyball and Australian rules football. technology works by recording all broadcast angles in real time and making this content available immediately either on-site or remotely to help multiple stakeholders across sports officiating, player welfare, coaching and content management.

Isn't it obvious Fly?

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Post by George Carlin Thu 19 Feb 2015, 4:53 pm

So basically it's to be used to judge the flight of each player that Finn Russell takes out in mid-air.
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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Thu 19 Feb 2015, 8:05 pm

Can you imagine that wenker Clownshoes the Cheat getting his head around this ffs ?
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Post by SecretFly Thu 19 Feb 2015, 8:25 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Hawk-Eye’s ‘SMART Replay’ is already being used by a number of sports including baseball, athletics, horseracing, football, badminton, volleyball and Australian rules football. technology works by recording all broadcast angles in real time and making this content available immediately either on-site or remotely to help multiple stakeholders across sports officiating, player welfare, coaching and content management.

Isn't it obvious Fly?

Well I finally read an article on it a good few hours ago, Hammer, and got a detailed breakdown on what it meant.  But honestly, I did need the detail to be able to understand the detail Wink  No nothing was obvious from the brief explanations I was getting here.

Anyway, again, it seems a lot of money going to Hawk Eye for something that's already in operation - multi angle footage??  The only thing Hawk Eye seems to be bringing to the party is tying all those different angles into a system that presents them all in one...em...package. Couldn't the broadcasting networks themselves provide such a service to the TMO? Again, I'm finding it hard to understand the 'newness' of all that.

I just think that it sounds a here-we-go-jobs-for-the-boys love-in between a number of business organisations that hover around sport, giving jobs to each other for little of no reason.

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Post by HammerofThunor Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:04 pm

It sounds like the TMO could work from home.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 20 Feb 2015, 9:31 am

I've no problem with that as some players over their careers have often phoned in their performances. Wink

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Post by MunsterMac Fri 20 Feb 2015, 10:34 am

So am I right in thinking that this technology is being introduced now, mid competition, and will only be used for games that SKY are covering?

If this is the case then it seems very unfair to me.

Can you imagine the uproar if the GAA decided to do this mid All Ireland Series and then only in certain matches.

You could say that it's the same for both teams involved in the match in question but what if it resolves a crucial incident in a match giving victory to a play-off contender while in another match without the technology a similar incident goes against a play-off contender because Hawkeye wasn't available and that team loses?

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Post by MunsterMac Fri 20 Feb 2015, 10:36 am

Is this site now working on Australian Eastern Time?

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Post by SecretFly Fri 20 Feb 2015, 11:23 am

MunsterMac wrote:

Can you imagine the uproar if the GAA decided to do this mid All Ireland Series and then only in certain matches.


But isn't that already the case in the All Irelands? Hawkeye in Croke, nowhere else?

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Post by Pot Hale Fri 20 Feb 2015, 10:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
Hawk-Eye’s ‘SMART Replay’ is already being used by a number of sports including baseball, athletics, horseracing, football, badminton, volleyball and Australian rules football. technology works by recording all broadcast angles in real time and making this content available immediately either on-site or remotely to help multiple stakeholders across sports officiating, player welfare, coaching and content management.

Isn't it obvious Fly?

Well I finally read an article on it a good few hours ago, Hammer, and got a detailed breakdown on what it meant.  But honestly, I did need the detail to be able to understand the detail Wink  No nothing was obvious from the brief explanations I was getting here.

Anyway, again, it seems a lot of money going to Hawk Eye for something that's already in operation - multi angle footage??  The only thing Hawk Eye seems to be bringing to the party is tying all those different angles into a system that presents them all in one...em...package. Couldn't the broadcasting networks themselves provide such a service to the TMO? Again, I'm finding it hard to understand the 'newness' of all that.

I just think that it sounds a here-we-go-jobs-for-the-boys love-in between a number of business organisations that hover around sport, giving jobs to each other for little of no reason.

Have to agree with you there Fly. It's relatively straightforward to lock various visual feeds with timecode - an electronic timer that is encoded on all video recordings - I've used it many times in the past as part of my work. It breaks down video recordings into hours/minutes/seconds and frames (1/24th of a second). With the advance in digital recordings, and move away from tape, everything gets stored on disk that's retrievable almost instantly. Hawkeye will be limited by the number of cameras/operators at each match - some can be remote-controlled, others static, others with an operator. Sky obviously have been brought on board because they're the only ones with a capacity for a high density camera network - some games that you see from RTE/BBC/Nuvolia look very basic. Effectively you're re-creating what you would see in the control box of a TV control booth or on the desk in an OB unit with 8/10/20 monitors showing you a myriad of images for the director to select from that becomes the broadcast feed, whilst particular extra angles are stored on disk for use in replays/reviews, etc. This system sounds like it will record every single angle and be able to play it back immediately synced without any need for lineup.
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