Why Are the Federer and Nadal Fans Locked in Combat

First topic message reminder :

We have all read the praise that Nadal has heaped on Federer in the past along with Uncle Toni.
Personally I find these comments made by Fed when talking about Nadal a revelation.. I read (in small print) somewhere when Nadal was recovering from his knees, that Fed telephoned him but it was never made public so I was a bit sceptical.. however hats off to you Roger it is nice to know his fans are not the only ones to miss him

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/2014/11/11/rafael-nadal-atp-finals-roger-federer/18862663/

legendkillarV2 wrote:I feel Murdoch that Federer is in a league of his own.

Thing is fans not just of Nadal, but other players will put them in the league with him.

Well judging by both what both Federer and Nadal say about each other they disagree with you as they very much put themselves in the same league. Did you see the Federer quote I linked to in my first comment on this thread. Federer was being asked about his rivalry with Djokovic and not about Nadal at all but he brought him into the conversation and talked about how he feels "a special connection towards Rafa". Putting paid to yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them. Nadal has said similar things about Federer too. Attempts to put players not called Djokovic in their special group of two would be laughable but not many people try to argue that point.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

I agree with this HM - "it shows a degree of fandom that isn't satisfied with one's favourite player being one of the best ever." It's that level of fandom that can lead to combat.

There are arguments for both being the best ever. So what happens is to differentiate them some fans try to negate the hard facts by saying things like Player A isn't very nice, plays ugly tennis or even (believe it or not ) cheats. Clearly neither Federer nor Nadal would ever say such things as clearly they like each other and have high respect for each others games and sportsmanship.

I wasn't aware we had any fangirls/boys on the forum.. thought that too was a thing of the past and that that expression was not now used here

Haddie-nuff wrote:I wasn't aware we had any fangirls/boys on the forum.. thought that too was a thing of the past and that that expression was not now used here

Are those words banned now?

Haddie-nuff wrote:DV I would rather you have said SOME Fed fans/Rafa fans .. rather than such a blanket statement.  Ive seen it happen on both sides by some fans of both  but to say that hatred has not been shown in the past, would be an untruth.
Hopefully now that such views can be kept purely to  thought without the need to voice it. It is not possible to like or be liked  all or even part of the time.. that goes with views about players.imo

I wouldn't call it some Fed/Rafa fans and at the same time not every Fed/Rafa fan hate the other one, but at the least majority of the fans here are like that, at time I feel 100% of the Fed/Rafa fans like that.

I have never said hatred was not shown in the past? where did I say that? hatred as always been the case, it grew stronger with days, it was quiet in the past cause the forum was dominated by Fedates and now the forum is dominated by Rafates, so the solution is both section of forum cannot remain peacefully without disturbing the other.

Don't take me wrong but to be frank Haddie even you have posted so much hatred on Fed in the past, just for an example, and the same applies for many Fed Fans counter reacting and acting.

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I wasn't aware we had any fangirls/boys on the forum.. thought that too was a thing of the past and that that expression was not now used here

Are those words banned now?

Did I say that.....????????

kingraf wrote:As for Federer, well, he is South African... so I have to like him

May be you are one of those exceptions who like both, one for the nationality and the other for the style of the play, , but given that you still dis like Djokovic cause he beats the invincibility of Rafa

Had Djoko been a South African I would have wondered which side you would have been

Haddie-nuff wrote:

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I wasn't aware we had any fangirls/boys on the forum.. thought that too was a thing of the past and that that expression was not now used here

Are those words banned now?

Did I say that.....????????

It's the only logical reason why they wouldn't be used, obviously.

Who did what isn't that important most people have been guilty of
Going too far sometimes. What's important is to move on

DirectView2 wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:DV I would rather you have said SOME Fed fans/Rafa fans .. rather than such a blanket statement.  Ive seen it happen on both sides by some fans of both  but to say that hatred has not been shown in the past, would be an untruth.
Hopefully now that such views can be kept purely to  thought without the need to voice it. It is not possible to like or be liked  all or even part of the time.. that goes with views about players.imo

I wouldn't call it some Fed/Rafa fans and at the same time not every Fed/Rafa fan hate the other one, but at the least majority of the fans here are like that, at time I feel 100% of the Fed/Rafa fans like that.

I have never said hatred was not shown in the past? where did I say that? hatred as always been the case, it grew stronger with days, it was quiet in the past cause the forum was dominated by Fedates and now the forum is dominated by Rafates, so the solution is both section of forum cannot remain peacefully without disturbing the other.

Don't take me wrong but to be frank Haddie even you have posted so much hatred on Fed in the past, just for an example, and the same applies for many Fed Fans counter reacting and acting.

Not sure what you are attempting to do in that last statement DV but its beneath my dignity to respond.. though there are those here who would love me to.. Thanks for your comments I have nothing to add

As I said earlier, let's not pretend there's false equivalency here

Haddie-nuff wrote:

DirectView2 wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:DV I would rather you have said SOME Fed fans/Rafa fans .. rather than such a blanket statement.  Ive seen it happen on both sides by some fans of both  but to say that hatred has not been shown in the past, would be an untruth.
Hopefully now that such views can be kept purely to  thought without the need to voice it. It is not possible to like or be liked  all or even part of the time.. that goes with views about players.imo

I wouldn't call it some Fed/Rafa fans and at the same time not every Fed/Rafa fan hate the other one, but at the least majority of the fans here are like that, at time I feel 100% of the Fed/Rafa fans like that.

I have never said hatred was not shown in the past? where did I say that? hatred as always been the case, it grew stronger with days, it was quiet in the past cause the forum was dominated by Fedates and now the forum is dominated by Rafates, so the solution is both section of forum cannot remain peacefully without disturbing the other.

Don't take me wrong but to be frank Haddie even you have posted so much hatred on Fed in the past, just for an example, and the same applies for many Fed Fans counter reacting and acting.

Not sure what you are attempting to do in that last statement DV but its beneath my dignity to respond.. though  there are those here who would love me to.. Thanks for your comments I have nothing to add

I was just trying to back it off that everybody are human and humans do go extreme at times both positively as well as negatively, so to blame one section of the side is completely wrong.

The issue would have been solved long time back between Fed and Rafa fans if they both acknowledged each other players success.

I have seen both fans appreciating each other on occasion like Rafa winning FO 2013 and 2014, I have seen the same on Fed winning Wim 2012, reaching Wim 2014 finals etc,.. , but sadly such things don't remain that way and most times its about complaints about either side.

Saying all this Haddie, I have in the past dis liked Rafa and might have passed some annoying comments against Rafa as well [not sure whether I did it in this forum however], so you are not the only one, but you and me are no exceptional one either.

But hell yeah lets take steps to not take part in such threads that annoy other fans out, I am up for it, will every Fed and Rafa fan be up for it? I sincerely think no.

temporary21 wrote:It's all about the extremists. Most people are pretty moderate on both sides of the fence . Then one idiot decides to have a go and suddenly everyone starts off making sweeping statements about both players and each other. People like that look for a reaction and people often take if hook line and sinker. Easiest way to stop it is to simply disengage  and not try to Argue or justify either extreme viewpoint. The vocal minority shouldn't have to ruin it for everyone else

/thread.

Honestly this is it. And there are very few people who only support one player, either on this forum or anywhere else.

I Federer and Nadal

Well this article was created in order to find some common ground between fans. The players themselves seem happy with their relationship both on and off court.. I have never heard Rafa say one critical word against Roger and indeed vice versa.. even with all the accusations that Rafa has received about Peds, cheating and the like. No word of such came from Fed.
I see no point in goading Fans from either camp with cryptic, sardonic or sarcastic remarks.. Ive made my point with this thread.  I seem at least to have sparked a debate.. its not meant for blood letting. Keep it clean. Ill leave you with it I have nothing further to add to the discussion.

hawkeye wrote:I Federer and Nadal

I have seen you article and comments while you remain supportive of Fed, you have teased Fed fans [cause you are baised towards Rafa and you yourself won't deny that ]and Murray fans a lot, on the same hand you cannot take a teaser back from Fed fans

Haddie-nuff wrote:Well this article was created in order to find some common ground between fans. The players themselves seem happy with their relationship both on and off court.. I have never heard Rafa say one critical word against Roger and indeed vice versa.. even with all the accusations that Rafa has received about Peds, cheating and the like. No word of such came from Fed.
I see no point in goading Fans from either camp with cryptic, sardonic or sarcastic remarks.. Ive made my point with this thread.  I seem at least to have sparked a debate.. its not meant for blood letting. Keep it clean. Ill leave you with it I have nothing further to add to the discussion.

You took a very positive step with this thread and you need applause for it , but sadly the objective of the thread would never be fulfilled.

With you two... It already has

temporary21 wrote:With you two... It already has

Thanks.. with effort it can happen

hawkeye wrote:Well judging by both what both Federer and Nadal say about each other they disagree with you as they very much put themselves in the same league. Did you see the Federer quote I linked to in my first comment on this thread. Federer was being asked about his rivalry with Djokovic and not about Nadal at all but he brought him into the conversation and talked about how he feels "a special connection towards Rafa". Putting paid to yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them.

That wasn't the point he was making at all though, was it?

Federer has played Djokovic more than any other player, so he was asked if he considers it to be his greatest rivalry.

Federer says no and then describes how he has a "special connection" with Rafa because they played so many times in slam finals.

He then speaks favourably of his rivalry with Djokovic and goes on to also discuss his earlier rivalries with Henman, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Roddick and Agassi.

Only the kind of fan that has been discussed in this thread could possibly read that interview and interpret it as Federer "putting paid" to "yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them".

Was Federer putting himself and Rafa in the same league when he said last year:

"The French Open is always going to be hard as long as Rafa Nadal is around, but on the other surfaces, if I am playing well, it’s more on my racquet than on anybody else’s racquet.”

HM Murdoch wrote:

hawkeye wrote:Well judging by both what both Federer and Nadal say about each other they disagree with you as they very much put themselves in the same league. Did you see the Federer quote I linked to in my first comment on this thread. Federer was being asked about his rivalry with Djokovic and not about Nadal at all but he brought him into the conversation and talked about how he feels "a special connection towards Rafa". Putting paid to yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them.

That wasn't the point he was making at all though, was it?

Federer has played Djokovic more than any other player, so he was asked if he considers it to be his greatest rivalry.

Federer says no and then describes how he has a "special connection" with Rafa because they played so many times in slam finals.

He then speaks favourably of his rivalry with Djokovic and goes on to also discuss his earlier rivalries with Henman, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Roddick and Agassi.

Only the kind of fan that has been discussed in this thread could possibly read that interview and interpret it as Federer "putting paid" to "yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them".

Was Federer putting himself and Rafa in the same league when he said last year:

"The French Open is always going to be hard as long as Rafa Nadal is around, but on the other surfaces, if I am playing well, it’s more on my racquet than on anybody else’s racquet.”

Wow excellent post HMM , I have always been your fan in this forum

HM Murdoch wrote:Only the kind of fan that has been discussed in this thread could possibly read that interview and interpret it as Federer "putting paid" to "yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them".

Nail on the head.

And let's be honest, in terms of quality the Novak - Fed rivalry has probably been the superior one, and also one of the best in tennis over the last couple of years. Both players know this (judging by interviews) and always seem to enjoy the prospect of playing each other, so there's no way Federer would try to diminish the rivalry.

DirectView2 wrote:Wow excellent post HMM , I have always been your fan in this forum

That's very kind of you.

But as my last effort to talk about something other than Djokovic ended up with me putting David Goffin's face on a male thong, my qualities as a poster are probably unworthy of compliments!

HM Murdoch wrote:Only the kind of fan that has been discussed in this thread could possibly read that interview and interpret it as Federer "putting paid" to "yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them".

I suppose if someone is a fan of both Fed and Rafa they have to turn their negativity towards other players.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:Only the kind of fan that has been discussed in this thread could possibly read that interview and interpret it as Federer "putting paid" to "yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them".

I suppose if someone is a fan of both Fed and Rafa they have to turn their negativity towards other players.

Another spot on comment.

If Djokovic was South African, I probably still wouldn't like him, much as I abhor that Davis Cup skipping turncoat Kevin Anderson (that US visa processed yet, Kev?), but Federer's South African roots are about a kilometer from my childhood home... so I really have no choice... got to back local!

lags72 wrote:

socal1976 wrote: ..............................................

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I direct a small fraction of the venom towards Federer that the legion of his fans direct at other players and as usual some can dish it but can't take it.

Oh well that's fine .... only a "small fraction of venom" actually comes from socal then. So that sets the record straight. Clearly.

Bit like a guy who admits to going out to mug people maybe once a month, but justifies it by saying ... hey I know people who do it every night .....so don't try and blame me for rising street crime.

At least you can be 100% sure of one thing socal : Nobody has in the past ever accused you of not being capable of "dishing it out".

And nor is anyone ever likely to in the future

Lags, it simply isn't a two way street. No where do I see anything approaching the venom for Nadal from Fed fan that we see from Nadal fans toward Federer. You somehow seem to claiming that there are people who in large numbers do it to both guys. In actuality, the vast majority of vitriol and animosity is from self described fed fans towards Nadal and his fans, it isn't a two way street. Its like a six lane highway going one way and dirt walkway going the other way. My venom directed towards fed is actually balanced by always giving the man his due. I don't claim he is a cheat, or claim that he is a talentless lung merchant moonballer a great many fed fans I have read comments from over the years. Its quite clear that most of the vitriol is one way and pretty clear that the reasoning behind it is pathetic sore loserism.

It Must Be Love wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Blame isn't always a two way street. I don't see endless accusations of PED use, rule violations, fake injuries etc. on other forums directed at Federer. In fact, Federer rarely gets negative coverage of any kind online or in the media. While Federer fans run rampant online directing wild accusations and hatefilled taunts at Nadal, his fans, and his style of play. I just call it the way I see it. This forum believe it or not used to me (lone Djokovic fan), a couple of Murray fans, and all Nadal fans. Not a single Roger fan in site. There was no fighting then, not at all. A certain federer fan and a cadre of his supporters arrived, most of whom are gone right now and all of a sudden the fireworks started. So from my own experience I remember this forum when it was smaller, and there existed a smattering of Novak and Murray fans and mainly Nadal fans, and there was no fighting ever between the various factions. The people who were fed fans came in and all of sudden we had weekly seminars of certain posters diagnosing Nadal's urine and blood content from watching him on TV and endless moonballer posts.

You're correct Socal. The phrase False Equivalency' springs to mind. It's very easy to 'equate' two things that aren't actually so.
Who's the Nadal fan who dislikes Federer on here ? HE likes Federer, Haddie I think doesn't mind him, I'm not sure what Falzy thinks. As I've explained I think and have always said he's a good ambassador but has his flaws and isn't a saint; and I think most Federer fans could hopefully agree with that. I mean come on the WTF final 2012, I was there in the stadium and supporting Federer in the final, think of the most raging Nadal hater you can and imagine if he would support Nadal in a big final !

It's not comparable to what I've seen given the other way. Constant baseless PED allegations, many posts calling him 'Nadull' rather than his actual name, constant insults on his style of play, called the 'death of tennis', one poster from this forum has gone onto another one and said he wished injury upon Nadal, one poster who used to post on this forum but not anymore said he wanted Nadal's career to end as soon as possible and in the most painful way possible because he 'deserved it'; and on ja606 last year I saw a poster say that he wishes any true Nadal fans jumped in a river and was left to rot.

That's all I've got to say really, let's not make false equivalencies. It is true not everything I say about Federer is positive, for example the example with Jankovic comments and him pointing to the wrong mark against Nadal. I don't see him as the best sportsman in the world, and I don't see Nadal there either. As I said the sportsmanship award was flawed as it didn't give a fair chance to players ranked below the top 100 (none of whom were even nominated). As for what HM was saying regarding the GOAT debate, all I'll say is that Fed is statistically the greatest of all time, and in the top tier of GOAT players.

Bingo, who exactly is the Nadal fan on here who writes negative stuff about Federer and his fans. It is a complete false equivalency. Fed fan hatred for Nadal compared to the other way around is like the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting it out of a .357 magnum.

I said I was going to withdraw from this discussion as my aim was to find some neutral ground between the two sets of fans.  But I am called upon to defend myself in one area.. I have never said I liked Federer.. that is absolutely true.. but neither have I ever said I HATE Federer which is absolutely false.. at best Im indifferent, at worst I dislike him
But neither have I ever denied his contribution to the world of tennis . I am not that naive and contrary to some posters belief Im not stupid either. There I rest my case. Can we, like the tennis players we support, at least rub along.??

I know how you feel Haddie. For what it's worth, I've never felt that you hated Fed.
I've said that at times I've wanted Nadal to win e.g. the FO final, yet because I point out a few aspects I dislike, some people think I hate him. Then they think I must be a Fed fan because I hate Rafa, which I don't!

Point taken JHM. Its not so much I dislike Federer I just don't like him much.. there is a subtle difference as strange as that may seem. Rafa does and that speaks volumes.

kingraf wrote:If Djokovic was South African, I probably still wouldn't like him, much as I abhor that Davis Cup skipping turncoat Kevin Anderson (that US visa processed yet, Kev?), but Federer's South African roots are about a kilometer from my childhood home... so I really have no choice... got to back local!

There are quite a few SA deserters who ended up in US, Drysdale is a notable one. Lendl, Navratilova, there is long list.

Glad to see bridge-building in progress.

hawkeye wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I feel Murdoch that Federer is in a league of his own.

Thing is fans not just of Nadal, but other players will put them in the league with him.

Well judging by both what both Federer and Nadal say about each other they disagree with you as they very much put themselves in the same league. Did you see the Federer quote I linked to in my first comment on this thread. Federer was being asked about his rivalry with Djokovic and not about Nadal at all but he brought him into the conversation and talked about how he feels "a special connection towards Rafa". Putting paid to yet another attempt by someone to put Djokovic in the same group as them. Nadal has said similar things about Federer too. Attempts to put players not called Djokovic in their special group of two would be laughable but not many people try to argue that point.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

I agree with this HM - "it shows a degree of fandom that isn't satisfied with one's favourite player being one of the best ever." It's that level of fandom that can lead to combat.

There are arguments for both being the best ever. So what happens is to differentiate them some fans try to negate the hard facts by saying things like Player A isn't very nice, plays ugly tennis or even (believe it or not ) cheats. Clearly neither Federer nor Nadal would ever say such things as clearly they like each other and have high respect for each others games and sportsmanship.

See again this the thing. Neither has said that. It's merely your twist on words. I see it as them talking about Rafa missing from the game and how he will comeback to his best. Yes Rafa and Roger have a special connection. I am sure when they are not taking lumps out of each other on court they sharing a glass of Moet at parties Federer has been a big part of a Rafa's career, much rather than the opposite. Rafa has been Roger's ultimate rival. Yes it is fair to talk about them together in terms of rivalry, but in terms of standing in the game itself, no.

Federer is on his own.

There is a GOAT debate thread if you want to comment on that LK

I am avoiding that.

socal1976 wrote:

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My venom directed towards fed is actually balanced by always giving the man his due. I don't claim he is a cheat, or claim that he is a talentless lung merchant moonballer a great many fed fans I have read comments from over the years. Its quite clear that most of the vitriol is one way and pretty clear that the reasoning behind it is pathetic sore loserism.  

I think these few sentences do as good a job as any of highlighting the degree to which the vitriol and pointless animosity is two way traffic - even if your intention was to try & prove the exact opposite.

You yourself openly admit to throwing venom in Federer's direction (mind you, any denial would hardly be credible !) and you then imply that you're a perfectly reasonable guy, because your venom is "balanced by always giving the man his due".  But why not just stop the venom ....?? Methinks you really need to take off your blinkers socal, and accept that your own approach to Federer is no different from the many, many comments that we see from people slinging mud at Nadal, but who are nevertheless equally willing to acknowledge that Rafa is a big winner on the biggest stages, with countless amazing achievements to his name.

You imply that your own willingness to give Federer credit is evidence of some great virtue on your part (deserving perhaps of a bouquet....?)  But for me, it's just the most basic of basic common sense that players of the quality of Nadal & Federer should be properly recognised & respected for their very rare abilities, and it's patently obvious that anyone without sufficient  brainmatter to appreciate the huge talent of both these guys has zero understanding of - let alone interest in - tennis.

You say you don't claim Federer is a cheat. But even if you haven't actually used such language (and are you 100% sure you never ever have .....??   ) you're more than happy to take every opportunity to devalue his achievements in all manner of other ways and on numerous threads, with tiresome repetitive talk of mythical weak eras, all of it full of purely subjective opinion. In similar vein, much of the forum chatter alleging that Nadal is 'a cheat' is little more than subjective opinion -  although some might say that the allegations stem in part from time-wasting tactics used to gain unfair advantage - tactics which have, of course, resulted in official penalties being imposed on more than one occasion by match umpires, meaning that the claims are not wholly without substance.

You're keen to deride others for referring to Nadal as a "talentless lung merchant moonballer" (a description which I myself consider total nonsense) but somehow are blind to similar vitriol heaped on Federer. Barely a day would pass on the old 606 without reference to him by a number of posters as the Swiss Shanker or Basel Bungler, along with other regular abuse of his personality or game (and there is no shortage of similar childish flak to be read on various sites today).

So then .... moonballer or bungler ....? Lung merchant or Shanker ....? It's all pretty childish don't you think ...? I don't know for sure whether you joined in at the time on the original 606, but safe to say you probably wouldn't be among those rushing to Fed's defence in the face of such drip-drip caustic negativity when directed his way.

In the same way that you claim that the vitriol is one way and is down to "pathetic sore loserism", you conveniently forgot just how easy it is to find any number of examples of vitriol from others whose comments might be down to jealousy that Federer holds several unique records that others have yet to match. So .....sore loserism (as you put it) on one side, and sore jealousy on the other. Both pathetic. Is there really much difference ....?

This thread by H-n was written to show that the mood of 'combat' adopted by many Federer or Nadal (so-called) 'fans' is very much at odds with the mutual respect & friendliness shown by the two big stars themselves. And what we have seen so often is that people who have a particular liking for one player or another will seek (understandably) to paint a positive image of their favoured player. But with that perfectly understandable motive often comes a far less rational desire to prove that THEIR player also has the best, well-behaved fans who (of course !!) would never indulge in the sort of hate campaigns adopted by 'fans' of the other camp.

So my point here is to show that all this talk is not only common on both 'sides' - but is equally pointless, regardless of the intended target. Personally I've never understood why people would want to throw venom at one player or another ; but that's perhaps because my own interest is more in the sport itself than any wish to bind myself to a particular player, with all the inherent bias that this so often brings.

socal - one closing thought if I may :  you are, naturally, just as entitled to your own opinion as the next man, and the value of the forum is ultimately dependent on people expressing their views. But do at least understand that merely by using the words "quite clear" " or "pretty clear" you cannot expect others to believe that what you claim is correct, no more than people will accept personal opinion as proven fact.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Federer is on his own.

Try talking about Federer without someone saying Nadal. Even Federer can't talk about himself without saying Nadal

hawkeye wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

Federer is on his own.

Try talking about Federer without someone saying Nadal. Even Federer can't talk about himself without saying Nadal

That is true. Not to flirt with the GOAT, but when all said and done when we are discussing merits and players standing in the game, we do so as individuals. Their records and achievements are their's alone. That is my view on it.

In terms of them as players and the field and eras and what have you, yes you mention 1 player and 2 or 3 more get associated with them. Which I think is the angle you are coming from.

The point Murdoch elluded to was more his observation is that some (not all) Nadal fans try to echelon his achievements above Federer's through more the H2H much rather than his indivdual achievements and records. I myself have seen this on many forums on the net.

As I say I would like to think one day both sides of fans might come to some mutual respect, though I doubt that very much.

Haddie-nuff wrote:I said I was going to withdraw from this discussion as my aim was to find some neutral ground between the two sets of fans.  But I am called upon to defend myself in one area.. I have never said I liked Federer.. that is absolutely true.. but neither have I ever said I HATE Federer which is absolutely false.. at best Im indifferent, at worst I dislike him
But neither have I ever denied his contribution to the world of tennis . I am not that naive and contrary to some posters belief Im not stupid either. There I rest my case. Can we, like the tennis players we support, at least rub along.??

Take my bow Haddie, there are some whose only intention is to fuel the fire between the two section of fans, its great you are setting as an example to the objective of the thread .

If only everybody decide to skip the provocative articles the world [forum] will be a much peaceful place.

temporary21 wrote:With you two... It already has

Thank you LK I echo your last comment.. we all know that our fav, to us is ultimately the "best"... But whatever the history book will show is that these two players will be remembered for their contrasting styles of play, their fierce rivalry on court, but their obvious fondness for each other.  They each have brought out the best in each other and in consequence have both raised their game because of it.
They Im sure will never forget each other in future.. as we wont.

DirectView2 wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I said I was going to withdraw from this discussion as my aim was to find some neutral ground between the two sets of fans.  But I am called upon to defend myself in one area.. I have never said I liked Federer.. that is absolutely true.. but neither have I ever said I HATE Federer which is absolutely false.. at best Im indifferent, at worst I dislike him
But neither have I ever denied his contribution to the world of tennis . I am not that naive and contrary to some posters belief Im not stupid either. There I rest my case. Can we, like the tennis players we support, at least rub along.??

Take my bow Haddie, there are some whose only intention is to fuel the fire between the two section of fans, its great you are setting as an example to the objective of the thread .

If only everybody decide to skip the provocative articles the world [forum] will be a much peaceful place.

Thank you DV

legendkillarv2

Federer and Nadal are in the same category. It's impossible to talk about one without the other. "FeDal! I don't think any other players have as Federer put it "a special connection" in the same way that they do. It doesn't mean there haven't been attempt to elevate other rivalries but it's not something that can for forced.

I don't think anyone here is trying to say who out of the two is the best as that would be a GOAT discussion.

Maybe just as when Roger and Rafa retire and share the odd whilst they reminisce about the fun they had their fans will too? But I tend to agree with you there will probably be more between the fans

lags72 wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

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My venom directed towards fed is actually balanced by always giving the man his due. I don't claim he is a cheat, or claim that he is a talentless lung merchant moonballer a great many fed fans I have read comments from over the years. Its quite clear that most of the vitriol is one way and pretty clear that the reasoning behind it is pathetic sore loserism.  

I think these few sentences do as good a job as any of highlighting the degree to which the vitriol and pointless animosity is two way traffic - even if your intention was to try & prove the exact opposite.

You yourself openly admit to throwing venom in Federer's direction (mind you, any denial would hardly be credible !) and you then imply that you're a perfectly reasonable guy, because your venom is "balanced by always giving the man his due".  But why not just stop the venom ....?? Methinks you really need to take off your blinkers socal, and accept that your own approach to Federer is no different from the many, many comments that we see from people slinging mud at Nadal, but who are nevertheless equally willing to acknowledge that Rafa is a big winner on the biggest stages, with countless amazing achievements to his name.

You imply that your own willingness to give Federer credit is evidence of some great virtue on your part (deserving perhaps of a bouquet....?)  But for me, it's just the most basic of basic common sense that players of the quality of Nadal & Federer should be properly recognised & respected for their very rare abilities, and it's patently obvious that anyone without sufficient  brainmatter to appreciate the huge talent of both these guys has zero understanding of - let alone interest in - tennis.

You say you don't claim Federer is a cheat. But even if you haven't actually used such language (and are you 100% sure you never ever have .....??   ) you're more than happy to take every opportunity to devalue his achievements in all manner of other ways and on numerous threads, with tiresome repetitive talk of mythical weak eras, all of it full of purely subjective opinion. In similar vein, much of the forum chatter alleging that Nadal is 'a cheat' is little more than subjective opinion -  although some might say that the allegations stem in part from time-wasting tactics used to gain unfair advantage - tactics which have, of course, resulted in official penalties being imposed on more than one occasion by match umpires, meaning that the claims are not wholly without substance.

You're keen to deride others for referring to Nadal as a "talentless lung merchant moonballer" (a description which I myself consider total nonsense) but somehow are blind to similar vitriol heaped on Federer. Barely a day would pass on the old 606 without reference to him by a number of posters as the Swiss Shanker or Basel Bungler, along with other regular abuse of his personality or game (and there is no shortage of similar childish flak to be read on various sites today).

So then .... moonballer or bungler ....? Lung merchant or Shanker ....? It's all pretty childish don't you think ...? I don't know for sure whether you joined in at the time on the original 606, but safe to say you probably wouldn't be among those rushing to Fed's defence in the face of such drip-drip caustic negativity when directed his way.

In the same way that you claim that the vitriol is one way and is down to "pathetic sore loserism", you conveniently forgot just how easy it is to find any number of examples of vitriol from others whose comments might be down to jealousy that Federer holds several unique records that others have yet to match. So .....sore loserism (as you put it) on one side, and sore jealousy on the other. Both pathetic. Is there really much difference ....?

This thread by H-n was written to show that the mood of 'combat' adopted by many Federer or Nadal (so-called) 'fans' is very much at odds with the mutual respect & friendliness shown by the two big stars themselves. And what we have seen so often is that people who have a particular liking for one player or another will seek (understandably) to paint a positive image of their favoured player. But with that perfectly understandable motive often comes a far less rational desire to prove that THEIR player also has the best, well-behaved fans who (of course !!) would never indulge in the sort of hate campaigns adopted by 'fans' of the other camp.

So my point here is to show that all this talk is not only common on both 'sides' - but is equally pointless, regardless of the intended target. Personally I've never understood why people would want to throw venom at one player or another ; but that's perhaps because my own interest is more in the sport itself than any wish to bind myself to a particular player, with all the inherent bias that this so often brings.

socal - one closing thought if I may :  you are, naturally, just as entitled to your own opinion as the next man, and the value of the forum is ultimately dependent on people expressing their views. But do at least understand that merely by using the words "quite clear" " or "pretty clear" you cannot expect others to believe that what you claim is correct, no more than people will accept personal opinion as proven fact.

Great post,

hawkeye wrote:legendkillarv2

Federer and Nadal are in the same category. It's impossible to talk about one without the other. "FeDal! I don't think any other players have as Federer put it "a special connection" in the same way that they do. It doesn't mean there haven't been attempt to elevate other rivalries but it's not something that can for forced.

I don't think anyone here is trying to say who out of the two is the best as that would be a GOAT discussion.

Maybe just as when Roger and Rafa retire and share the odd whilst they reminisce about the fun they had their fans will too? But I tend to agree with you there will probably be more between the fans

But not in achievements! This is the point I was making.

Like I said from the off, Federer fans believe he is out on his own in achievements alone and that for no other plausible reason is correct. The angst I feel is for many reasons Nadal is successful.

If Nadal ever surpassed Federer in the Slam count, I could see a mass cult suicide and tennis forums closing down!

^ Ha ha! No way. I imagine when/if that happens there will be an explosion of talk about how/why certain stats don't count.

hawkeye wrote:legendkillarv2

Federer and Nadal are in the same category. It's impossible to talk about one without the other. "FeDal! I don't think any other players have as Federer put it "a special connection" in the same way that they do. It doesn't mean there haven't been attempt to elevate other rivalries but it's not something that can for forced.

I don't think anyone here is trying to say who out of the two is the best as that would be a GOAT discussion.

Maybe just as when Roger and Rafa retire and share the odd whilst they reminisce about the fun they had their fans will too? But I tend to agree with you there will probably be more between the fans

HE, you are one of those posters who like both Fed and Rafa, so avoid the GOAT discussion at the least in this forum, lets cherish some common grounds alone without any form of comparison, it should be very easy for you given you like both of them.

On the topic, I would say Roger-Rafa charity match was awesome fun and very valuable to many.

hawkeye wrote:^ Ha ha! No way. I imagine when/if that happens there will be an explosion of talk about how/why certain stats don't count.

No change there then!

Well no. What would we talk about without FeDal?

hawkeye wrote:^ Ha ha! No way. I imagine when/if that happens there will be an explosion of talk about how/why certain stats don't count.

I agree, the debates will never end.

A new set of reasons will be found why Rafa don't deserve the records and asterix rule applied to Fed during his regime will be used to on Rafa's CV

I guess in dictionary , asterix = success.

Asterisk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix